http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...=96011&st=0

I'll take a post from this very forum to illustrate my point.

"...christians being ignorant of history science and archolgeogy really beieve that the jesus story is unique and orginal, they really think its a real history"

My question is why this type of thinking even remotely socially acceptable? If somebody was to say the same thing about Jews, Muslisms, Homosexuals...etc they could be jailed (depending on your country, Canada for example) yet it's perfectly acceptable that such slanderious things could be said about an entire group of people.

Now before you accuse me of being some fanatical Christian, I am not. But it's plain to anyone with eyes and the reasoning ability of a child that religious persecution is alive and well in the year 2007.

My belief that is that if people want to say such moronic things than they should be allowed to, freedom of speech should take precedence overall, but it's not freedom of speech when it's acceptable for one person and not the other.

Here is a quote I think that sums things up better than I could.

"Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're really in favor of free speech, then you're in favor of freedom of speech for precisely for views you despise. Otherwise, you're not in favor of free speech"

- Noam Chomsky

What does one say to something like that?
Something like...
Welcome to UM!

There were several other messiah figures around that era, Jesus Christ was just the one that got big and popular.

I hardly see how its slanderous. Alot of early sects of christianity believed that Jesus was just an allegory.

It was just some guy being an idiot. Lots of anti-christian views on here and believe me we are outnumbered on this site but I am used to some of the moronic things people say. Religious persecution does exist still you are right, just as it did 2007 years ago when Christ was crucified, and some of the crap on here is evidence of it. But like I tell people you will live to eat your words one day in front of the God of the universe, choose your words well.

Yep, You got that right! As a Deist living in the Bible belt, I can verify that religious persecution still exists and it is the non-Christian that is persecuted and the Christians that are the persecuters. Been that way for about 1700 years, ever since Christianity took over the Roman Empire. I find it humorous, that now that the surpressed and persecuted religions have started fighting back, Christians are the ones yelling about being persecuted! You reap what you sow!

1) I don't believe that sentence is slanderous. Ignorance simply means they lack the knowledge. If he called them stupid, then that could possibly be slanderous, but I doubt it. In order to be slanderous it would have to be a false statement that is damaging their reputation. I don't see that in that statement.

2) I agree that religous persecution is alive and well, but it goes both ways. Always has and always will. I don't think it's any more acceptable for one person or group to do it than another.

3) I'm all for freedom of speech no matter what anyone has to say. I believe in warning labels and personal censorship.

John 15:18 If the world hateth you, ye know that it hath hated me before [it hated] you1.

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, A servant is not greater than his lord1. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also.


So..in away its a promise that this will happen. So take it is a blessing..get used to it and deal with it. And honestly u really want to see persecution go to other countries and see religious persecution of all faiths...people and familys are being murdered everyday....it seems we are lucky to live in a country that has religious freedom.

I agree with Pandora. Besides, the advantage of free speech, and consequently a forum such as this, is, that people can reply & express their view in return. As in the thread you quoted, it took exactly 1 post for someone to call up the OP on how he spelled archaeology whilst talking about ignorance & lack of education.

Freedom of speach (especially on the net!) is hard; we have to learn to talk to each other, even if the opposite view is offensive to us, without running out into the barn getting the machete...

I have to disagree, mako. I was never a Christian who persecuted a non-Christian. I am not responsible for the actions of those who launched the Crusades or the Inquisition. I was not responsible for the actions of those who picked on little Deists when growing up. I sowed no such hatred or discrimination. Neither did thousands of other modern Christians around the world. Yet many Christians still reap persecution, especially in Eastern countries where CHristianity is outlawed.

Beautifully said!
And I bet you have experienced persecution. They call it the bible belt for a reason. And it's made very clear if one isn't christian, they're a target of the christians there, as you know and as I've seen when visiting friends that live there. It's literally a territory of blatant vicious intolerance and persecution.


Bible Belt missionaries set out on a 'war for souls' in Iraq(2003 article) Excerpt: American Christian missionaries have declared a "war for souls" in Iraq, telling supporters that the formal end of the US-led occupation next June will close an historic "window of opportunity".

Organising in secrecy, and emphasising their humanitarian aid work, Christian groups are pouring into the country, which is 97 per cent Muslim, bearing Arabic Bibles, videos and religious tracts designed to "save" Muslims from their "false" religion. (Continues at link)

Ah, tolerance in the name of christ! I remember someone saying christianity was all about tolerance. These people would clearly disagree. And in a country where those muslims practicing a false religion will cut an infidels head off, at that.

LOL! I was gonna say something about the spelling too!! I'm funny about spelling things correctly. For some reason I've been spelling ridiculous, REdiculous FOR YEARS!!! I thought it was correct. I almost croaked when I realized it's with an RI. Now, I'm funny about calling someone out on it just in case they call me out on one! (I'm so neurotic sometimes, !)

Good post Goddess...PA, if you want to see Christians persecuting non-Christians, come to the Bible belt and pretend to be another religion or belief system, making sure they know that you are not one of them. You will get first hand experience at persecution at the hands of Christians! Why do you think I have so little use for them?

Mako, please understand that what I wrote was not meant to belittle your situation, or to imply that your experiences did not happen. I'm sure that if I did go to the Bible Belt, I may very well see exactly what you are referring to. However, I'm trying to be a bit more open than the confines of one area of America. And I think it is unfair to use those experiences of yours as justification to exclaim "Christians deserve it for the years of persecution they put on me".

Im not sure that christians experience any real persecution, criticism maybe.
im not aware of any states where christianity is outlawed. christianity exists in many states we would consider 'repressed' and has done for centuries.
generally christians experience opposition in other cultures when their own activity can be seen as agressive, from those who do not appreciate their evangelizing, and conversion missions which usually attack the established religions of the areas. missionaries in many countries have gained a reputation for arrogantly disrespecting established beliefs and traditions and the resulting conflict reflects the culture and personality clashes.

im not sure that any christian who posts here has the right to suggest that they have been persecuted for their beliefs.
unless they've been on missions of conversion to other countries and have been persecuted for their 'actions'.

Not true..it many muslim countries it is illegal to convert to other religion. Many christians have been murdered for just being Christians.


"The persecution facing Christians is the largest "human rights" violation issue in today's world.

According to the World Evangelical Alliance, over 200 million Christians in at least 60 countries are denied fundamental human rights solely because of their faith. David B. Barrett, Todd M. Johnson, and Peter F. Crossing in their "Missiometrics 2007" report in the International Bulletin of Missionary Research (Vol. 31, No. 1: 32) estimate that approximately 173,000 Christians will have been martyred from mid-2006 to mid-2007. This represents an increase of 1.2% over last year and compares to 160,000 martyrs in mid-2000 and 34,400 at the beginning of the 20th century. If current trends continue, Barrett, Johnson and Crossing estimate that by 2025, an average of 210,000 Christians will be martyred annually."

Source; Voice of the Martyrs www.persecution.net

not true, there are plenty of christians living in muslim countries, even in Iran there is a reasonably sized community, and a jewish one for that matter. they've been there for centuries.
Islam like christianity believes that it is the 'end of ' religion....for someone to convert 'from' these religions makes it very difficult for their community to accept.
imagine a white bloke in a nice close community in the bible belt walking into the town milkbar and telling his fellow townmembers he has converted to Islam. there would be extreme disaproval because he would seem to be turning from the 'true' faith.
now what if by his actions he encouraged a handful of others to do likewize? no doubt youd have a witchhunt on your hands as folk try to 'cut out the cancer'.
Now if your family have been historically christian or jewish in Iran for example you are generally respected. Start trying to convert muslims from what they believe to be the 'true faith' then it becomes a different story. dispite Iran being a muslim country there are a number of different faiths evident there, and in general there seems to be little evidence of their persecution for their faith (though granted at some periods in history minorities have suffered for political reasons).
just like a christian would see the conversion of one of their own to hinduism as a backward step into superstition and polytheism (because they dont really understand it) Islam feels it is the final stage in faith and that to convert to christianity is a backward step. I must say ive not heard or do not remember any specific cases of it happening, but i would expect such a person to be ostracised in some way from their muslim community. just like the christian to islam convert in the bible belt scenario.

The stories i can recall of christians being murdered in countries where other faiths are dominant are most frequently(when related to faith) because of the missionary work they are doing.

I am not anti christian, or anti any faith for that matter; but do not see the criticism on these boards as 'persecution'. Undoubtedly those who have been really persecuted in the past would eagerly swap their situation for this.

If one only relies on the Bible for a reference for history, I am sorry, but your history is false. The Bible is a book of faith not history or science. Like the tales of the Greeks, and the old tails of the Irish Celts it is an allegory. Morality tales told to teach people a mode of living. I you want to live that way then fine, but don't try to tell me it is fact, because I will politely beg to differ. When someone disagrees with the Bible it is not persecution the are stating their point of view. If someone drags as Christian out of his house and shoots him for being a Christian that is persecution.
If someone tells me I worship the devil I don't see it as persecution they are stating an opinion, but burn down my house or throw me on the fire that is persecution.

exactly.

i think the estimated figures for martyrs 2006-7 as posted here is an interesting figure, id like to see how they estimated that and where they getting their info.

I can not say I personally have ever suffered any persecution as a Christian (I was once turned down for a job in N.Ireland for being from a Catholic family) but I agree with this statement what constitutes persecution may vary from person to person. I would direct this question toward Mako, What kind of persecution are you experiencing in the bible belt of the USA? Has it ever hindered your career choices or effected your family life in anyway? Is it more like a country club mentality or out and out discrimination because of your beliefs?
I have been discouraged from joining a few Christian congregations in my day because of the elitist mentality some Christians have, but i blame the group not their fundamental beliefs. it was their House Rules I did not agree with not their foundation.

Irish

OKay, then go to Serbia and claim to be a Muslim or to Greece and claim once again to be a Muslim or Jew or Deist...I could go on and on naming "Christian controlled" nations that persecute other religions.

That is crazy and sad. Some would say it's payback for all the murders committed through the ages for not being a Christian. I'm not one of those people. I don't agree with making people suffer for the "sins of their fathers." I think if someone wants to worship an eggplant they should be able to without fear of persecution.

I don't know about Beastmode, but we live in the same city and I'm here to tell you, living in a "Bible belt" city is different than living in a more liberal city. Jacksonville is run by First Coast Babtist Church (FCBC for convenience sake). For one thing, we have an awesome arena but we don't get many "radical" concerts here. I mean this is the city who banned Elvis and Ozzy Osbourne. When Marilyn Manson (who was arrested and thrown in jail right here) actually got to perform, I was there. They had to have the Christian protestors cordoned off. It was weird. If FCBC doesn't want something to happen, all they have to do is put pressure on the local government. IT'S HUGE. It's right in the middle of downtown. Have fun getting around down there on Sunday. They close off half the roads every Sunday so all the members can get in and out smoothly. Doesn't matter if it inconveniences anybody else. The local ordinance has a law where you can't have buildings that are an eyesore. For example, no giant brown hats as cafes or huge buildings shaped like a goose. Yet, FCBC built a huge lighthouse complete with a rotating light that you can see miles away. They finally made them stop with the light because people driving on 10 East complained about it. But, why were they allowed to build it in the first place?? If I wanted to put up a giant pitchfork or hell an eggplant, it wouldn't even be considered.

I agree with you completely..for example i dont believe that a church that big that has that kind of money...would have so much poverty around it. Jesus largly taught charity and help for the poor. i dont undertand how there could be so muvh povery around them..and they dont seem to really do 2 much, they may do alot.. but there is no visisable impact. I also worked with a small inner city church called springfield baptist church, its a very poor church right in the middle of springfield ,which is a very rough place to live, that church isnt very far from FBC so it seems that FBc has sucked all the support from the smaller churches around it..it it should be the opposite. I dont they should be throwing their wait around, they should stick to helping people...not their own agenda for the city.

Persecution isn't a religious thing, it's a human thing. People have always persecuted people who are different from them, religion has only given people another reason to do persecuting. The majority of christians and muslims don't do persecuting, to condemn an entire religion because there are those amongst these religions who do persecute non-believers would be a mistake. Getting rid of the religions will get rid of one persecution but lead to another. the borders that separate humanity are much larger than religion, until they are all taken down then we will be no closer to peace than we are now.

Yes, I agree. I mean with all that money and influence and only two places downtown for the homeless to go to. Schulzbacher and the Salvation Army. I could be wrong, but those are the only two I know of downtown. I think I would much rather work in Springfield where I could actually make a difference.

I also live in the Bible belt, know openly gay people, know people who are proudly Wiccan, and know plenty of atheists and none ever report being persecuted by the Christians who surround them (not on a concerted basis, there are always a couple of idiots everywhere). So the question has to be asked, is it because you're a Deist or is it the "Christians are idiots" T-shirt you wear which is causing you to be persecuted?

yea same here...had a blast helping out there..i worked with alot of the youth...and seeing what some of them had to go throughits very tough

That's not slanderous. Calling someone ignorant doesn't ruin their reputation. Ignorant just means you don't know. It doesn't mean stupid. Compared to some people a lot of Christians are ignorant of history, science, and archaeology.



What law says you can't call them ignorant. Hate speech laws, as bad of an idea as they are, just say you can't say something hateful about someone.



You're not being persecuted. Having somebody call you ignorant is not persecution.

or the christians in your area are more open to different faiths/lifestyles than the one's in his area. It's not the religion it's how the people practice the religion. I have no doubts someone claiming to be christian would persecute someone else for not believing in Christ, for being homosexual, etc..

It's important to remember that these people don't represent the whole of christianity. Just like intolerant Muslims don't represent the whole of Islam, and so on.

Whoa, deja vu...that sounds so familiar to me, oh wait, I use to say that!!!

Houston is, like all Sun Belt cities, more cosmopolitan in it's outlook than the surrounding areas. Since more "Yankees" have migrated southward in the last 3 decades or so, the larger cities have taken on a more liberal outlook, an outlook that has slowly changed the outlook of the local Christians from the hardshell fundamentalism of the Texas churches to a more accepting type of Christianity, usually only seen in the Northern areas of the U.S. However, you get away from the cosmopolitan areas and the Old South still lives and thrives along with the hateful type of Christianity that is the hallmark of the Bible belt. It is really easy to sit there as a member of the majority belief system and say things like, "I know openly gay people, know people who are proudly Wiccan, and know plenty of atheists and none ever report being persecuted by the Christians who surround them". Do you actually think that these folk (the gay, Wiccan, etc) are going to share with you, a Christian, the tales of the discrimination and persecution that they have recieved from the hands of other Christians? Not bloody likely mate! Statements like that are much the same as a white man saying, "I have nothing agains Negroes, why some of my best friends are Negroes!" and all the while telling racial jokes, denying promotion to blacks, etc. It is the same with non-Christians in the Bible Belt...we are treated much the same as the blacks before the Equal Opportunity Era began. If I had a penny for every Bible Belt Christian that made comments about how no Christian of their acquaintence had ever persecuted or discriminated against a non-Christian (while voting not to admit the Jewish businessman into the Country Club), I would be richer than Bill Gates. Any time one of us hears the start of such a statement, we cringe and wait for the "But..."

Did ya now?

I'll say it again." Fear not the faithful it's the fanatic you have to worry about." Any extremist is going to put you down because you don't see things their way. Thanks to this forum I found that I was a Deist. However my views are just my views and I do not see any reason to throw them in someone face. Nor do I care for someone to throw their beliefs upon me. Discuss yea I can do that but force no. Its those that often ridicule a belief that need to remove that 2x4 from their eye.

Muslim rioters, incensed over the cartoons of Muhammad published in Denmark, were responsible for killing at least 130 Christians on the streets of Maiduguri and Onitsha in Nigeria,
At least 51 Christians are confirmed dead in the Maiduguri attacks that took place Saturday. In the rampage, more than 150 homes and 32 churches were burned, and 85 shops were destroyed. Authorities were finally able to control the volatile scene after arresting 114 and having militia enforce a curfew.

As Shia Muslims become more aggressive and vocal in their demands for an Islamic
State based on Shari’ah the anti-Christian violence which Christians in Iraq
have long feared seems finally to have arrived with the brutal murder of two
Christian men.






Britain’s Daily Telegraph reports the deaths of Sabah Gazala and Abdul Ahed who
were shot and killed by two Islamic gunmen within ten minutes in separate
incidents in Basra on 8 May. Like a number of Christians in the city and in
other parts of Iraq they were involved in the sale of alcohol, jobs forbidden to
Muslims but permitted to Christians under Saddam Hussein’s rule. In recent
weeks such vendors have faced severe threats from Shia Muslim conservatives
seeking to impose defacto Islamic law (which bans alcohol completely) in Iraq in
the chaotic wake of the victory of coalition forces in the country. Many
Christian shop owners have been forced to close, others to defend their premises
with metal bars across the windows.

In Basra, Baghdad and across Iraq some Christians are beginning to suffer
harassment, threats, intimidation and even violence at the hands of conservative
Shia Muslims





The bodies of Pastor Shamoun Babar, 37, and his driver, Daniel Emanuel, 36, were found dumped on a road in Peshawar on April 7. According to the All Pakistan Minorities Alliance (APMA), their bodies were badly mutilated with bullets and their noses and ears had been cut off.

Pastor Babar and his driver were kidnapped on April 5, from the University Town area of the city. Their families had informed the police and government authorities about the kidnapping of Pastor Babar, and his brother had registered a complaint with the district police station.

Two days later their bodies were found dumped on a road near Mulazai village in Nasirbagh, Peshawar, North West Frontier Province, with their hands tied with chains and a lock. Pastor Babar’s nose and ears had been cut off, there was evidence he had been badly tortured and several bullets had pierced his body.

"The APMA has asked the Government to take concerted and practical steps to stop the growing violence against Christians and to protect religious freedom, and the human rights of oppressed Christians and minorities in Pakistan."
According to the APMA, Christians in Peshawar believe that the murders were an act of targeted killing and hate crime committed by extremists.

Some family members told a team from the APMA that Pastor Babar had been receiving threats and that he had been asked to stop his church activities. Pastor Babar was a well-known preacher and evangelist at Peshawar and established the "Ilam Dost Foundation" in Peshawar.





In a gruesome assault against Turkey's tiny Christian community, five young Muslim Turks entered a Christian publishing office in the southeastern province of Malatya Wednesday and slit the throats of the three Protestant Christians present.
Two of the victims, Necati Aydin, 36, and Ugur Yuksel, 32, were Turkish converts from Islam. The third man, Tilmann Geske, 46, was a German citizen.





A three-day killing spree in El-Kosheh, 250 miles south of Cairo, left 21 Christians murdered, 33 Christians wounded and 260 Christian homes and business destroyed. The fighting spread to the neighboring village of Dar Al-Salam where five Christians were injured and 156 Christian-owned stores, homes and businesses were burned or looted. In Awlad Tuq Gharb, 23 Coptic homes were destroyed, and the village church was attacked. Attacks against Coptic property also took place in the neighboring villages of Al-Nossayrat and Nagaa Mussa.





A mob of three hundred Muslims murdered six Christians, and seriously wounded fifteen others during a midnight worship service in Beshasha, a town located in the Agaro province, 408 kilometers West of Addis Ababa.

Muslims in the Horn of Africa are becoming increasingly radical and violent.On October 14, Orthodox Christians held a midnight worship service when a group of three hundred Muslims, carrying guns and knives approached the church. The mob could not enter the locked doors to the church but then proceeded to pour gasoline around the building, forcing the Christians to come out of the building.

The men of the church came out first and attempted to defend the men and women but had no real weapons, in comparison to the guns and knives used against them. The Muslim mob began to attack the Christians. Fifteen individuals from the church suffered sever knife wounds. Six people died as a result, two priests, two elderly women, and two men.

Two weeks later, the Ethiopian media announced that the police had arrested the leader of the massacre. However, the violence against Christians continues to steadily increase. It was only two weeks before the Beshasha massacre that another attack on Christians occurred in Jimma, Ethiopia because Muslims opposed Orthodox Christians celebrating the traditional Meskel holiday.



Several Christians and Westerners have been killed in violent attacks as anti-Christian violence spreads throughout the mainly Islamic, impoverished African nation, Barnabas Fund said Friday Dec. 19.

The Barnabas Fund, which supports Christians in the Islamic world, identified Italian nun Annalena Tonneli, known as the Mother Theresa of Africa, as among those Christians murdered in recent weeks along with several other missionary workers.

Sister Tonneli, who had served in Somalia for thirty years "founding a TB hospital, orphanages and schools," was killed October 5 by two armed men in front of the hospital, said Barnabas Fund in a statement seen by ASSIST News Service (ANS).

Soon after British couple Richard and Enid Eyeington, working for SOS Children's villages in Somaliland were shot dead October 20 by several gunmen in their home inside the school compound, while watching television, added the organization.

Last month a Kenyan Christian working for the Seventh Day Adventist mission in Gedo, South West Somalia, was reportedly murdered by Islamist radicals, although no more details were given.

The Barnabas Fund said "the attacks appear to be deliberately anti-Christian and anti-Western," and are likely linked to radical Somali Islamist group, Kulanka Culimada, which threatened violence earlier this year.

The Mogadishu based group urged its supporters to treat all Somali Christians "as apostates from Islam who ought to be killed," after a tiny persecuted Christian community in Somalia sent several delegates to peace talks currently held in Nairobi.

The Christians had demanded the right of freedom of religion and assembly, political representation, and free movement, said Barnabas Fund, which has close contacts with church sources insight the country.

Christian representatives were reportedly "shouted down by Muslim delegates who insisted Somalia had no Christians and who declared Islam to be the official religion of Somalia."

Barnabas Fund said the verbal abuse "seems to mirror prejudices widely held by Muslim Somalis which justify violence against Christians,

Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.........................................................................................................................

How many cartoon jesus's have they made? and did you here of any christians killing people over it?

Let's not forget the entire villages of Muslims executed by Christian Militia in Serbia...I know, I was there looking at the aftermath. Survivors of the Militia (we ambushed them and destroyed them as a military unit) admitted that they did it because the villagers were Muslims...multiply this village of around 200 or so by all the Muslim villages destroyed in the Balkans and that is a few more than the piddling amount of Christians killed over the Danish cartoons...Incidentally NS, since the Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet, I doubt if they would cartoon him! Especially since their religions frowns on the protrayal of the human form in art!

exactly right

I dated a girl from croatia who told of atrocities by the muslims in serbia, it goes both ways mako, can they not defend themselves?

Mako, I remember reading a post of yours a while back using the analogy of being bitten by a dog, and then again and again. It's apparent that you've had some unpleasant experiences. I can tell you as a former Christian that I never persecuted a non-believer per se, with the exception that I believed they needed salvation or else...

It was my own self-righteousness and the belief that anyone who didn't believe "the truth" and didn't have a personal relationship with Jesus were going to parish, that has left a bad taste in my mouth. I see a lot more going on in these forums from both sides...myself included.

I live in the Bible Belt as well, and though it can sure get lonely in these here parts not knowing many who can relate with me...they've never openly persecuted me that I can recall. What I did hear was never said to to me in person. Like I told someone the other day...when I'm asked what church I go to, (and that is often) and I tell them I don't...I just get this look. lol I know my Christian friends love me, they just can't relate 'tis all.

edited for spelling

As of 6 month ago, in one part of the mid-west, it was impossible for my brother and his girlfriend to rent a property together, no one in that little town was willing to rent to a couple who'd be living in sin, and openly said so. They were forced to be married. He also describes prayer at corporate board meetings.

Not unusual for certain parts of the Midwest, actually. There is no persecution of christians in this country, rather there is a vested movement to make this country a christian nation, governed by biblical values. We have a commander in chief that agrees. Which is why in South Carolina a bill was proposed forcing women to have a sonogram before they would legally be allowed to have an abortion. There's a movement, by the christian Taliban in that State to have the State divided in half, the northern aspect to secede from the United States so as to establish a christian "nation", that is run by biblical values. In South Dakota, abortion is virtually illegal, because of christian values declaring not even rape is reason to remove a zygote from a womans body. And our pharmacists in this country are permitted to refuse to fill prescriptions, if they have religious moral objections. Just imagine a pharmacist that doesn't think one should be entitled to pain meds for chronic suffering in terminal illness, on that one, as to the potential risk associated with the morals clause that allows them to abridge their oath of service to the public.

It is called intolerance, when people object to a fundamentalist intolerant agenda. I can live with that, rather than live under the national authority of an intolerant fundamentalist dictatorship. And daring to speak out against the little inroads it seeks to take, so as to effect that for the whole country, is what will keep us free of it. In politics, in community activism, and even in forums.

OK, my server went down and I lost my post...so maybe I should take that as a hint. What I was going to add was that I did recall how bad it got at the Christian radio station I worked at during the Gay Day boycott Disney days. Yes, that was indeed a nasty experience, but what I saw more then anything while a Christian was Christian persecution amongst themselves with regard to denominations. As long as anyone believes that they are "set apart" and "special"...there will always be wars and division amongst nations, tribes and people.

Wow, I didn't know that.

First, like I pointed out, the people I have talked to have not had concerted persecution although some have suffered at the hands of some idiots, but they are clearly able to tell the difference between what a few individuals do and what a community of believers does. Although I said it in a comical way, the question still stands, how much does your attitude towards the Christians around you contribute to the persecution you experience? Could it be they are reacting to how you treat them?

I'm sure you won't forget it, it's probably the only incident you can quote, and let's not pretend this was a religious war, yes these people were divided by religion but the hatred was deeper, Serbian muslims were part of Hitler's Muslim waffen SS Hanzer division, christians suffered badly under there rule.

I actually like what South Dakota and what your country is doing, I think a doctor should be able to make moral decisions. if he doesn't want to abort a baby, he doesn't have to.



So do you only speak out against Christians doing persecution? I wonder about your motives. You shouldn't have a hatred or bias against Christianity.

could you please show me your references for such a suggestion to say that Jesus was just an allegory to early Christian sects? And, are they reliable sources?

Forgive me but I believe you have it confused. South Dakota criminalized all abortion, save those deemed necessary to save a womans life. (Link)
Prior to this, and in all States wherein abortion is still legal, doctors perform elective abortion procedures, if they so choose. There is no mandatory clause, that all doctors must perform such procedures. It has always been an elective for doctors. A D&C, which translates to "Dilate and Clean", is a procedure that scrapes the cervix and is a procedure performed daily for women, that is the same as what is elected in the abortion process, for the most part. So, one may not perform an abortion, as a physician licensed to that surgery, but doctors that perform D&C's in hospitals around the country, perform what is tantamount to that, by another name, regardless. So, in effect, a means around the South Dakota law, is if a doctor recommends a D&C for his patient.

The option to perform their State licensed service, is held by Pharmacists. That may elect not to fill prescriptions if they so choose, using the religious moral grounds, as reason for this refusal. This refusal can be applied to any prescription.

It is not a good thing our country is doing, when religious grounds can be invoked, to refuse life saving services to a lay public. As soon as Pharmacists get special religious privilege to enact discrimination, other groups shall seek that as well. There was a story not long ago about cab drivers in Minnesota, demanding the right to refuse to carry any passenger carrying alcoholic beverages. Based on moral muslim religious grounds. If every religious person in public service is permitted the legal right to arbitrarily discriminate in providing that service, using their religion as an excuse, this country promises to explode into a religious powder keg that makes terrorist muslim countries pale in comparison. Because in a melting pot of diverse faiths, it can become nothing less, in the name of one's right to discriminate in the name of god. And that is not anything that insures a prosperous free country.

Criminalizing abortion is a good thing as I see it.

Is there anything to suggest those who are allowed to deny certain prescriptions based on moral grounds wouldn't prescribe medicine necessary to save a life? I'd assume not saving a life would go against their morality, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Kind of silly fighting over who kills who. What is the point, if we're not fighting over religion we're fighting over resources, land, shipping lanes, what have you. We all invest big bucks on war. The only winners are the cooperate criminal Earth killers who make the bombs, tanks, planes, guns and other needs for murders. We just get sucked into the God and country bull to send our sons and daughters to die for them. That been going on since caveman days.