obviously you haven't learned history where the christian church did the same. Jewish ? they'd kill you if you didn't convert. same with muslims , pagans , ect............... that's the thing about playing king of the mountain , sooner or later your going to get pushed off.

I am A Christian who lives in the deep heart of the bible belt. I have never persecuted anyone. Anyone.

I hate to sound like a three year old...but the non-Christians didn't spark it...Christians did


Oh and anyone that says they're Christian and they don't persecute...good for you! How about spreading the word then? damnit....

Hmm...

Before this thread starts getting too out of control,I think there should be a little thing mentioned.

Some people tend to generalize when talking about religion.If one is saying "Christians",might it not be that they are meaning one certain type?

I think that we all need to step back and really look at what is going on.

The "Bible Belt" is not where *all* "Christians" are.It is,however,the area where many of the most fanatical "Christians" are.These are the Funda-*Mental*-ists and Evangelists...both of which have their main base of operations there.There are many good Christians that live within the Bible Belt,yet they tend to get lumped in with the zealots during most conversations about these groups of "Christians".It is purely accidental,and it happens at times because those who rail against the Fundies (or Evangelists) have only had experiences with the Fundies (or Evangelists).It is unfortunate that when we generalize...innocents do get lumped in with the fanatics.What one needs to do is take a moment to understand that others are generalizing.

Some will have noticed that I will state clearly which type of "Christian" I am talking about...and it is usually Fundies (or Evangelists),although I have been known to throw questions or comments about that are aimed at the Bible or the deity within the Bible.Unfortunately,some here tend to make me wonder if they have gone from being a good Christian to being a Fundie because of some of their words.I think this may be because even amongst the Christian community,it's getting harder to separate the different types.The lines are being blurred by those who attempt to sound like a good Christian...and by those who cannot tell who is really a Fundie in disguise.

So...before one begins to get irate at someone else,please take the time to think about whether someone really means "all" Christians...or just one certain type.

you can start here -

http://mama.indstate.edu/users/nizrael/jesusrefutation.html

http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/Gospel_Myths.htm

http://sourceryforge.org/index.php/Jesus_as_myth

If your girl friend will admit it, the Croatians were the first to attack the Muslims as part of the “Genetic Cleansing”, so any Muslim attacks were either retribution for those attacks or self-defense! Isn’t Christian love so wonderful?


To a non-Christian who is content with their beliefs, to infer that their beliefs are the devil’s deception and that they should come to a religion that they consider nothing more than a superstition is a type of persecution…


My point exactly – you don’t believe in their own personal view of the Creator and they make you suffer! If that isn’t persecution, then what is?


I submit for your examination this article…it has been posted here before but largely ignored by the Christians of this forum…after reading it can you make the statement that it is a few individuals and not the community of believers?
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2...n_oklahoma.html


Yeah, it must be my attitude towards people (I have no way of knowing who are Christians and who aren’t unless they tell me or try to witness to me)…since I deal with the public all the time. I must insult people all the time, making a point to single out Christians (although there is no way to tell them from the run of the mill public). Come on, that has to be the silliest thing you have ever said! As soon as a Christian finds out that you don’t subscribe to their silly Asiatic superstition they start in on “Conversion Mode” and when you try to explain that you don’t believe their dogma, they get defensive and abusive! I usually just smile and walk away, it isn’t worth the effort to respond any further. I have put up with this for nearly 60 years (I was around 5 the first time I remember being picked on because my family was “different”) and it has never gotten better until the last decade with the rise of the vocal non-Christians.


Okay, I won’t mention the execution of Buddhist monks by Catholic Vietnamese soldiers that I observed during the Vietnam conflict, nor the religious overtones of the Rwandan Genocide nor the beating death of the Turkish Muslim at the hands of a Greek mob while I lived in Athens. These are just a few of the incidents that I can mention…a quarter of a century in the intel community, traveling the world lets you see quite a bit. To be fair, I have seen incidents involving Christians being harmed by Muslims, but I have seen no other religion harm Christians. Seems only Abraham’s three bloody children are into harming others for religious reasons (with only a very few exceptions).



After around 60 years of persecution by Christians I should speak out against Shintos persecuting others, or Buddhists or Hindu or Taoists? In my observations traveling around the world, most of the blatant persecution is perpetrated by either Christians or Muslims with the Israeli (Judaism is the predominant religion there) following closely. Once again we can see that it is Abraham’s three bloody children at the forefront of persecution of others!


Well bully for you…are you sure you voted to let that Jewish business man into the country club? You are really a good Christian, you have never told a Jewish joke or an Atheist joke or any such thing because you know that this too is a form of persecution. I am proud of you. Sorry, I am being mean, but when I hear such statements that just drip with smugness I have to point out that persecution comes in many forms.


Exactly Wolfie…a point that I have attempted to make over and over…at least as far as American Christians go…As a denizen of the Bible Belt I see these folk all the time and have even had one attempt to witness to me as my troops arrested him for criminal trespass of Federal property! Yeah, yeah, I know, for all of you Christians,...he wasn't really a Christian....

A man told his grandson: "A terrible fight is going on inside me -- a fight between two wolves. One is evil, and represents hate, anger, arrogance, intolerance, and superiority . The other is good, and represents joy, peace, love, tolerance, understanding, humility, kindness, empathy, generosity, and compassion. This same fight is going on inside you, inside every other person too."

The grandson then asked: "Which wolf will win?" The old man replied simply: "The one you feed."

Anonymous

Thats a very good qoute......

That is an awesome quote.

I vaguely recall an incident in northern india a few years ago, where a mob of hindus wrecked a historic mosque and harmed any muslim who got in their way. That mosque had stood for centuries in a place that had been primarily muslim until the british gov't gave control of the area to India. Hindus aren't really peaceful or enlightened, when they're in the majority.

Christians can claim bloody historical oppression in Japan for centuries, at the hands of Buddhists and Shinto.

The problem is humans. You are all slaves. Slaves to substances, or slaves to your "natural" brain chemicals and to your vilest instincts, willing slaves to each other. You spend your days quoting scriptures and philosophies, but when the time comes you'd all brutalize and kill if there's a reason or often just randomly. And then you'll shrug and justify it as "human nature". Because your minds are owned. By who or what I do not know. The perfectly evolved slaves. you'll do what you're told.

If you will check the story, the gist of the matter was that the Muslims had built their Mosque on a very sacred Hindu site (the birth place of Shiva or some such thing) at a time when the Muslims had conquered that area. The Hindus were merely taking back that which had been forcefully (in a very bloody manner) taken from them! Hindus are normally a very peaceful people, unlike Abraham's three bloody children.

Thank you for the additional information. It demonstrates my point, that the humans who practice the hindu religion are exactly like the humans who practice abrahamic religions. The justification you offer for their act of violence is the same justification offered by the abrahamic religions who kill each other over the Dome of the Rock and the "Holy" city of Jeruselem. The hindu humans are as much slaves as the rest of you all.

The major difference is that the Hindus never conquered another people in the name of the various Hindu deities, never took the sacred places from the conquered, and only attempted to reclaim what was theirs. Abraham's bloody children have a long history of conquest and violence all in the name of Abraham's god!

Though I wouldn't say that I'm an expert of India's ancient history, a few minutes spent on history sites shows quite a few kingdoms and empires fighting it out for supremecy, the only times when India's various sects weren't conquering new territory seems to be when they'd reached the limits of what they could control and needed to consolidate their power, or when they ran into other major empires

They seem no different. I think I might safely suppose that no one's religion has rescued it's believers from the slavery in their own minds.

Most christians hate everybody even themselves, I live in Salt Lake City Utah, the capital of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints (mormons). Mormons are not bad people they believe pretty much the same as most other christians, but most other chistians hate them, why? Can any of you other types of christians explain to me why?

I also believe that christians bring a lot of persecution on themselves, as they are fond of telling others they are going to hell because they don’t believe exactly as they do. Watch one of the religious channels on TV and you will see some of what I’m talking about, they spew hate and intolerance all the time, and if anyone should dare defend themselves it becomes persecution. It seems like a lot of christians can dish it out but cant take it.

I honestly believe that Christ would be very embarrassed and pissed off about how the christians have distorted and twisted his teachings.

Live and let live.

I’m glad I gave up religion when I was 12, it was one of the best decisions I ever made.

I've always wondered if there isn't a persecution complex inherent in Christianity.
Something along the lines of: "The world hates us, so we must be more vigilant in our faith! Take me away from this horrible world, Lord. They all hate me because I love you!" Makes it easier to look to heaven, if you view this world as a place of torment.

Now the Christians whine about not being able to practice their religion, but never mention when the Church loved to slaughter anyone who didn't follow their dogma for 1000 years.
Payback's a b****, isn't it?
It isn't a "War on Christianity". Just the way the world works. If you're obnoxious about your beliefs, as most Christians are, when you live among the enemy, ie, Muslims or Communists, you can expect to be persecuted.
Just as the Christians persecuted pagans, Muslims and heretics before.
Cue Elton John and that annoying "Circle of Life" song.

* Please note, I am neither a christian nor a mormon, I don't personally ascribe to any of the philosophies, motivations, or beliefs which I am describing to you.

If your question isn't rhetorical, the reason is that by the definition of "christianity" used by the christians who dislike Mormons- Mormons aren't christians at all, they are heretics who are lying to themselves and others by "pretending" to be christians. And that if the Holy Roman Empire had been in charge of things, Joseph Smith and every single one of his Mormon believers would have gotten the same treatment as other heresies that had come along, brutally stamped out.

The problem is, that christianity defined it's holy scripture as ending with the book of Revelations, no new input data is allowed. No one is ever allowed to be a new prophet and add more words of God. So they say that every extra word that Joseph Smith added is a lie, and that by willfully believing the lie every Mormon is a non-christian.

I guess it’s a vicious circle that will never end. It’s almost amusing in its irony.

One must also remember that when one goes to a different area in order to spread their religion...that it may not be wanted in that area.One case in point is when Christians attempted to bring Christianity into Japan.

In many cases,attempting to spread a new religion into an area where it is not wanted will be met with resistance...sometimes with very violent resistance.

Surely one can see that if a different area has a different religion...and has had that religion for a long time...that it would not be a very good idea to go in and attempt to start changing things suddenly.

...

As for the Mormons,there are a lot of people (religious and non-religious) that cannot accept the story told by the founder of the Mormon church...which is that Jesus appeared to him and had him copy down what was written on some golden tablets (which then disappeared) and to start a new church.Too,the Mormon church also allowed it's male members to have multiple wives for a long period of time.This would bother most Christians who believe that a man should have no more than one wife.Even though it's been outlawed for some time now,the memory of it being allowed still rankles other Christian sects.

The biggest part of this though,is that most Christians do not believe that Jesus would appear to one man and have him copy some golden tablets and telling him to start a new church.To them it sounds like a tale made up so that that person could start up his own church with himself as the leader.They don't realize that their own story sounds just as false to others as well.Ironic,isn't it?

I’m not defending mormons, but I do know a lot of them, and they are regular people just like everyone else. In fact I have lived in the bible belt (south east USA) for many years and some of those christians down there way more fanatical and out there in their religious beliefs than any mormon I have met.

About the polygamy thing, that’s all over the bible, and with the way christians believe that the bible is the literal truth you would think that they wouldn’t have a problem with that.

The joseph smith thing is just plain weird. And I would agree that his story is suspiciously cult leader like. But in the end they believe in the same god, the same moral values and the same bible as the rest of the sheep. So what if they added an extra book or two into the mix, it al boils down to BS anyway.

I would dare say, given it's history over the last 2000+ years, it's not war on christianity. But rather a matter of self-defense.

I've known some as well,and from those that I knew,yes...they seem to be very good people.

I have known some good people from every religion...and of course...some bad.You'll always have both sides in everything.The only thing is...which type has the bigger population? Sometimes it's about even,sometimes the good people are the largest side.But,there can always be a larger amount of bad people.I see this being the case when looking at the Fundies and Evangelists.I'm not the only one that sees it this way either.

So...until I see the Fundies and Evangelists start actually listening and thinking and behaving in a more Christian-like way...I'll go against them.I do not have a problem with good Christians,although I do like to debate them and question them.Several of the Christians on this site (notably PA,Irish and Iamson) are fun to talk to...even when discussing the subject of religion.As long as they don't begin to act like Fundies,I'd be willing to call them "friendly aquaintances"...or just plainly...friends.I just can't get along with Fundies...they rub my fur the wrong way.

So, when the Muslims built the Dome of the Rock on top of the Temple of the Jews in Jerusalem, a very Holy site to the Jews, its not justifiable? Jews are often a people kept to themselves, demonstrating non-imperial tendencies, and careful observation to their law. This would make them peaceful, law abiding citizens; unless you take something from them, right? If I do recall, their land was taken from them by the Romans, and then by the Ottomans.

Modern Christians should stop snivelling and read their bible. Jesus says his followers will be persecuted; get a grip. I am Christian Gnostic, so I certainly understand religious persecution. Pagans and Satanists are much more persecuted in our society, yet very few reasoned voices come to their defense.

Let Christians take heed of the Master's words.

Peace,

RadicalGnostic

I think you'll find these things are said about any other religion just as they are said about Christianity. The reason that a lot of it is directed at Christianity though is, it is the predominant religion in the western world and a lot our society such as some laws are based on Christianity and it's teachings, sure there is supposed to be a separation between church and state but these values have infected or civilization to the point where certain laws and societal norms built on christian teachings aren't even regarded as so anymore as they are formed within the routes of our culture, formed in a time where christianity was widely accepted and questioned by very few.

Now we are entering an age where christianity is not so widely accepted and the western world has been introduced to different cultures and cultural ideals and people are starting to question whether laws and social conventions really should be based on these teachings which do not necessarily reflect the views and ideals of all (within reason), but those who belong to a certain group, especially in an age where we can deduct so much about the merits of religion. This seems to make people direct their anger towards christianity.

i believe in that all people can contradict and conceive some form of negative and acrid approach to situations and all over things...you find that form of negativity even in fanatical muslim jewish Christianity and all others including the atheist groups that follow a law or belief system..even the modern religion practices of politics and science there are all constructs of cultures modern cultures adaptations and movements...no matter in the world lots of changes happen with time things always come and go and some grow stronger to weaker as things progress, in all i have my own natural universal law belief system if you like...its all about balance everything that exists falls into a subsiquence of movement and paths, and adaptation of life that continues to forever change and grow it happens everywhere and to everything, one is of the same not better or lower than the other and non other is more rite...to argue or debate alone is only showing you that you are no different thus applys to everyone else...

i could continue but i maybe should be really posting this everywhere instead of just one place as its representative to all arguements and debates and i have so much i would like people to understand about how life interacts with the individuals spirit/consiousness and that by have different religions or being of atheist followings or paths have all part of the same law and it matters not of your cultural or ideologies of belief systems,

Its best to follow what you believe and strive for only wots good in your life with no malice or maiming etc..all religions should support one thing as with atheist to strive for the better of life none is more wrong non is more rite they all have the same ultimate agenda and thats wot matters, and to always yake a positive from a negative to create a balance and visa verser...with out bad/negative you have no good/positive viser versa..theres always a counter balance to everything in sometimes multiply and diverse diferences,such is life...

Click to view attachment

Ah, but the key word there is supremacy…those kingdoms and empires fought for glory, territory, power and riches, not for religion…there were no armies marching into battle wearing the swastika of Jainism, the linga of Shiva or the girdle of hands of Kali! Abraham’s children make war in the name of his god…a major difference.

So, you're saying that a Christian should be okay with being persecuted?

Seems that is supposed to be the lot of Christians and seems they are supposed to be content with being persecuted!

LOL...mako i believ this may be the first thing we agree on.....iN a way its promised that we will be persecuted... that doesnt make it right...but we are to expect it...so i guess we should accept it, live with it and deal with it.

Yep, it does seem to be preordained doesn't it...LOL

LOL.....yes it does