Overview:
The word "intolerance" does not appear in any of the 18 English translations of the Bible that we checked. But every translation contains many descriptions of great intolerance. There are far fewer biblical passages that describe or advocate religious tolerance.

Two themes found throughout the Bible is religious exclusivity and religious intolerance.


In the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) God is recorded as punishing ancient Israelite individuals and members of other tribes for following the wrong religion, or deviating from "proper" religious practices. In some cases, the victims are viewed as having no right to continue living. In the book of Joshua and elsewhere, God instructed the ancient Israelites to commit what would be termed genocides and "mass crimes against humanity" in today's world. The victims were newborn, infant, child, youth, and adult Canaanites and other nearby tribes who followed Pagan religions. 1 Samuel contains accounts of genocides perpetrated by David and his men.

* In the Christian Scriptures, (New Testament) particularly in the Gospel of John, "the Jews" are vilified and called the sons of Satan. Until recent decades, many Christian denominations held that Jews of the first century CE and their descendents down to the present day were held responsible for Jesus' execution. 1 This laid the groundwork for millennia of Christian persecution of Jews and set the stage for the Nazi Holocaust of the mid 20th century.

*Religious exclusivity is also found elsewhere in the Gospel of John, and in some Epistles which claim to have been written by Peter and Paul. A frequent message is that the followers of other religions hold invalid beliefs which were wrong, deluded, immoral, and/or heretical. These authors also condemned fellow Christians who followed different sects within the primitive Christian movement -- notably the Jewish Christian and Gnostic Christian movements.

This section does not include a complete list of passages containing religious intolerance in the Bible. It is intended to give a general impression of the degree and types of hatred found there. They are arranged in the same order as they are found in the books of the Bible. The King James Version (KJV) is used as the preferred translation, for copyright reasons.



About the instances of intolerant acts ordered by God:

Some of the acts of intolerance cited in this section were actually ordered by God. Among the most serious were the genocides in which God instructed that every Canaanite newborn, infant, child, youth, and adult be slaughtered by the Hebrews without mercy. Consider two passages from Deuteronomy:

* "When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2, NIV. 1

*"...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16, NIV. 1

In this section, we do not address the topic of whether God's ordering of the genocides and other intolerant acts was moral. They certainly would have been considered the most serious crimes against humanity if they were ordered by humans in modern times. But many Christians would argue that since God created the human race, the Earth, and the rest of the universe, he has the right to exterminate or order the slaughter of any person or group of humans at any time for any reason. In this section, we merely report the acts as instances of intolerance, without delving into whether the acts were justified.



Religious intolerance topics included in this section:

Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) Prejudice, hatred and retaliation by God

General religious intolerance

Christian Scriptures (New Testament) Intolerance against Jesus
Intolerance against followers of Jesus
Intolerance against non-Christians
Intolerance against fellow Christians


God's genocides: "Show them no mercy"




Related essays on this web site:
Religious exclusivity in the Christian Scriptures
Bible passages which are immoral by today's ethical standards


References used:
J.D. Crossan, "Who Killed Jesus: Exposing the roots of Anti-Semitism in the Gospel Story of the Death of Jesus," Harper Collins, (1995) Order from Amazon.com
K.C. Davis, "Don't Know Much about the Bible," Eagle Brook, New York, NY (1998) Pages 152, 153.

(Source)

Intolerance in famous literature

The American constitution: Clearly bias toward North Americans, ignores other countries and culture completely.

Oxford Dictionary; Clearly anti-Semitic not one Jewish word in the entire book

Pygmalion; Shaw; Degretory comments toward women.

The Taming of the Shrew; Shakespeare, Intolerance toward the free spirit of womankind.

The Deerslayer, Fenimore; Unbridled slaughter of cute deers.

A Tale of Two Cities; Dickens; Clearly discrimination toward the French.

Macbeth; Shakespeare; Clearly slanderous toward the Wicca religion.

Moby Dick, Melville ; Advocates the slaughter of innocent whales.

Oliver Twist; Dickens; glamorizes pick pockets and thieves.

The Hunchback of Notre Dame; Hugo; A clear mockery of the disabled.

Perhaps we should ban them All!!

Hardly think it would be christian to do so. For that would smack of religious intolerance , certainly. Especially in the context that none of those works ever sought to rule the world in the name of literature or fiction! I think we'll keep them. Because people that want to ban or burn books, are actually the same people that would support banning humans they dislike or burning people , for the same reasons, too.

Oh wait!
That's right.
They did that already. Clergy stood up wind.

My point exactly. What would you expect from a religious doctrine that supports a particular religion? I would bet the Koran does not support Hinduism either. Heck if you wrote a book espousing the values of Coca Cola you probably would exclude the values of Pepsi. The glorious thing about any literature is you do not have to read it if it is of no interest to you.

Irish

Forgive this request for clarification, but what does that have to do with the price of pineapples in this thread!?

Is the bible literature now? Or fiction? To be tossed onto a shelf, as any other book so described in your initial list ? Does literature, like "Adam of the Road" by Irene Hunt, inspire collectives of persons to rule the world, in it's name? Do readers of "America and I" by Anzia Yezierska, feel compelled to copy excerpts from it's pages and install them in tract form everywhere they go? " Does The Queen of Air and Darkness" by Poul Anderson inspire groups of people on a Saturday, with nothing better to do, to go forth and knock on strangers doors and ask them if they've heard the good news about Mistherd, from that text?!

Has one single culture been changed, from it's generations old way of life and faith, by any readers of "The Yearling" by Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings!?
Was one pyre erected, one crusade initiated, one hanging effected, so as to defend the faith in the truth of "Under the Volcano" by Malcolm Lowry!?


I think not. In fact, those titles attend my library bookshelf to this day. There is no altar erected to honor their presence. There is no visage of any one of those or any other author, to which I bow. I do not proclaim loudly and with conviction, there is only one way to read Tennyson!

So , basically, what's your point besides taking this thread off topic?!

So what's your point? Times change and beliefs about morals change with them. Christians came up with the idea of freedom of religion. Times changed. They changed their beliefs about quite a bit of stuff that is written in the Bible. They did away with slavery. They don't execute homosexuals anymore. They don't execute witches. They passed international laws against genecide. Christians don't have the same beliefs people had in ancient times.

You're not going to make everybody tolerant of your religious beliefs by knocking Christians. I don't understand what you and other people at this site are trying to accomplish with all these antiChristian threads. Why don't you just show them that you're not a bad person instead?

Some people are intolerant and will always be intolerant. You can't force people to be tolerant. People can take any difference and use it as an excuse to treat other people badly. Some people use race, some sex, and some religion. It is just a fact of life. Some people will be mean to you because you're different.

It has been some time since I have had to read translations of various ancient religious texts of the cultures that predated Judaism (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Assur, Akkad, etc), those that were contemporary with (Persia, Greece, Macedonia, etc) and even those that were a bit later (Rome, Celt Druidic, etc), but I don't recall a one of them proscribing death to followers of other religions, religions that did not recognized their god/gods/goddesses as supreme. Nor do any of the non-Western religions' scriptures proscribe killing non-believers of their religion, only Abraham's three bloody children want to slaughter those who follow other gods.

Actually that concept arose from the Scottish Enlightenment of the 16th century and the authors of it were for the most part Atheists and Deists. This idea was later codified into the U.S. Constitution by a Convention that had a very large contingent of Deists present. So the idea of religious freedom is not a Christian idea, in fact it is alien to Christian doctrine.

I appreciate your insight. I think what compelled this thread was the bible. There is nothing in this world like people that scream intolerance, in a skeptics forum. Because a forum, inviting the doubt, the dialog associated with free thought, are berated in this forum, by those screaming "INTOLERANT! IT'S SIMPLY INTOLERANT AND INFLAMMATORY!"

When in truth, threads are often offered in the spirit of free thought, because it's invited to this one place in this giant community of forums affording all manner of opportunities to dialog. Then , we have the occasion to witness those claiming to be "christian". While they call others that afford themselves the same title, and believe themselves to be so in their own heart , those very italics I just surrounded the word with. Implying they are less than worthy of being true christians. In the eyes of that one, that affords their judgment as not really of the spirit of christ! Ah, but that's tolerance in their eyes. And they're proud!

And then we have threads that are openly hostile. Persons that know about paganism, have participated in threads about paganism, open a thread to assault paganism and of course, the pagans on board. When called to account and accept responsibility for that, they feign ignorance. When the truth is not that , at all. Because they have participated in threads about paganism before, and so prove themselves disingenuous when they claim they just didn't know. Why? Because this is the spirituality and skeptics forum. And free thought not in line with what is approved by those calling themselves christian, is not allowed!

Oh, the forum doesn't say so. The believers do. They believe, as they example what christ means to them that bear the title, that they have a right to tell those that choose to attend here, that if they are not christian they are anti-religion. They are told, if they do not follow christ, they really have no business saying a word. And we are asked, is god evil!? And then are beckoned to come, and prove it. When, if an Atheist or anyone else posted such, they'd be flamed, and shut down by any one of the moderators in this entire community. Rather than what we witness of someone that is a moderator, taking that initiative. Inviting people to take the bible for all it's worth, as gods breath, one would say the onus is on the believer to prove god is not evil. But if one said that, they'd be attacked again. And the defense would ring to the heavens! "CONNNNNTEXT!" Because one is not able to read that god ordered slaughter, slavery, rape, and oppression of those not to his approval, as it is written. Because, though it is gods word, it takes a veritable library of concordance and language translators, to really get the message!

So if it were indeed a matter of christ like, I don't think we'd have a member stalked by another, and being called names, because they are not of the same mind as the stalker. I don't think if it were a christian matter, we'd witness a christian italicize the word as an insult to those claiming to know christ, but that are deemed not fitting to be so, according to that italics fan's judgment. And I doubt very much those that believe in their heart god is all they believe, as christians, would attend a skeptics forum, just so they can turn the dialog around to their line of thought. When one of them says as much in a thread, if you are not christian you have no right here, one can clearly retort if you are so confident, why enter into the realm of doubt and take issue that even has cause to exist?! Because doubt , as you said, is always alive. And it reflects more on those that are offended by it, and then become offensive to prove it, that reflects in them, what is so much to criticize about hate, in the name of christ. And it's sad, that people are intimidated from decent conversation, because those evangelical avengers believe they have the right, to inflame, assault and harass, because they do not agree.

You see, one can claim all they wish it's not a matter of anything at all. This behavior we witness in these forums. But it is. Gideon's post received replies that said some people learned by the examples some set here, how not to be that kind of believer. Some learned to think differently about what they before never thought about. And some say not a word. Because they quite simply do not want to be targeted as "next".

This thread is about religious intolerance in the bible. And this forum in the bibles name, would sadly play host to those that carry it with them, and write the next chapter themselves!

I have read the bible from cover to cover, probably a few times and have no ambitions to take over the world or even knock on your door. And I must be fortunate to have never met another Christian with those ambitions either.
If some twit decides to seek revenge on all the whales in the word after having read Moby Dick, is it the fault of Melville?
You have probably started over 50 threads picking apart the Christian bible usually with links and quotes to someone else’s work and that is fine. However I must ask you honestly have you ever sat down and read the entire bible for yourself without commentary from those apposed to its teachings?
There are many books fiction and non-fiction I have read only the first chapter and realized I agree with little or nothing, I would put it down and perhaps never read it again. The last thing I would do is launch an internet campaign condemning the words and author or even those that truly enjoyed those same works. And the reason I would not do that is it would be unfair of me to do so because I have not taken the time to read them completely, I simply would be unqualified to do such.

All the best
Irish
.

I think if you would have ever read me at all you would know the answer to that question. And if you have never met that sort of christian, then you have never read these forums, and you know nothing of the christian history that is still being written today, in the blood of non-believers.

Moby Dick is not pertinent here, unless you would like to equate a fiction to the bible. And it's unfortunate you can not grasp that.

I have. Using only the footnotes of the book itself >waits for the thunderous clamor that you "MUST" have read it wrong<

To me, the book is merely primitive man's attempt to A - understand the world around them and their place in it; and, B - a "how-to" guide on humans interacting with humans.

Taken as a whole, I see no difference between the bible, the saga of Beowulf, the Nordic eddas, the Hindu texts or the native American spirit tales. I cannot honestly say that >>THIS one<< is the true word.

But, except for the Judaic/Christian/Islam versions, I cannot honestly say that I have read any other religious text that suggests, or demands the death of others solely based on the way they pray, and who they pray to.

I agree that religious freedom doesn't come from the Bible. I wasn't even aware it came out of the Scottish enlightenment. It wouldn't have been put in the constitution without the support of Christians.

The Bible is intolerant of other religions. I agree with that too. Most of what goddesswhispers said is true. But, I don't see what she is trying to acheive by it. I don't believe the Bible is the word of God. That's why I'm not a Christian. It was written by ancient man. It has the morals of people in ancient times in it. Society has changed. People's morals are different today, even the Jews and Christians have different morals today than people in ancient times.

You can't judge all Christians by what it says in the Bible or by what Christians have done in the past. Their beliefs have changed. Most of them don't even follow all the rules in the Bible. How can you judge them by what it says in the Bible when they don't even follow all of it? The Bible accepts things that today are considered wrong. Christians don't follow those parts of the Bible. Only the radicals want to put us under Biblical law.

I would not ask you that question if I knew the answer!. You are probably right that it’s because I have not read many of your posts and I will tell you why I don’t. While trying to read what you have wrote I am distracted by a flashing neon sign within your signature that openly mocks what I and many others hold sacred, while you write about intolerance your post screams hypocrite to most. I have noted others who have asked you about it and you claim it just a joke, funny that the same excuse most racists would use.
I shall try to ignore your flashing sign if you will answer by question honestly. Have you ever sat down and read the entire bible for yourself without commentary from those apposed or for that matter agree with its teachings?
As for Moby Dick not being pertinent you have stated in the past as well as a few others that consider the bible to be a work of fiction so perhaps it is pertinent here.

Irish

too true ! we don't have to read it !

now if we can get people to stop wars over it , claim crusades and fatwas , as well as the emotional,verbal, legal and physical persecution of those they don't agree with we'd be ok.

Aye, but it wouldn't have been suggested except for the Deists, as I said; Religious Freedom is anathema to Christianity.

another thing christians are claiming that has no basis in fact -

The first declaration of religious freedom was established in the ancient Persian Empire by its founder Cyrus the Great in the 6th century BC, as stated in his Cyrus cylinder.

Freedom of religious worship was established in the Maurya Empire of ancient India by Ashoka the Great in the 3rd century BC, which was encapsulated in the Edicts of Ashoka:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion#Antiquity

they may not execute homosexuals anymore , but still beat the hell out of them or kill them. Or some still have their kids put in psychiatric care ---- including the 'we can change you' religious programs that are just stupid and wrong. Most gay people are not bad people - that doesn't stop religion for lambasting .


they did away with slavery ? plenty fought to keep it. was Lincoln a christian ? Lincoln didn't prescribe to any religion nor went to church. He was considered a free thinker.

Most Christian people are not bad people - that doesn't stop non-Christian for lambasting . Including gay Christians

Many people in the abolishionist movement were Christians.

Lincoln signed the emanicipation proclamation to keep the British out of the war. He didn't even outlaw slavery before that.

Only a few are beating the hell out of homosexuals. For the most part homosexuality is tolerated today. They're not executed as a matter of law.

I don't see non christians on tv or in the streets blasting away at gays or christians. I know many gay christians. Have even been to mass ( gay services) in both the catholic church and other denominations.

the majority of christians however would not be willing to have a gay loving couple recieve sacraments at thier church. they'd stop going. ask the Episcopalians about that. and they are the most progressive of the bunch.

Ah, and there we have it. I remember, when I first posted that signature in these forums, you said you had no problem with it, because you possessed a wry sense of humor yourself.

I think hateful christians mock christ. I think someone named Barek Halfhand, that said publicly he would verbally assault me until I took it down, is a mockery of these forums rules against such trash. I think I have explained myself well enough, as to my motive for posting that, which you seem to have read well enough. I think I appreciate very much the option to "ignore signatures in this forum ~ Yes or no" option in my profile, which I did long ago. I think, eggumby's signature is a direct assault on membership here. I know of it, I even saved it because hell is for christians gone bad. Not for Atheists to which it is intended to speak, that know, if a hell exists, it is born from people like that! That believe they are hurting someone, when in truth it can be ignored and they have to live with themselves. Because you see, I have christian friends and one best friend in particular, that knows better than to think I mock christ, with a PSP flashing signature in a forum that, in the grand scheme of real life, mean nothing but a choice, to spend time.

My signature may scream hypocrite to many. But those calling themselves christian and verbally assaulting people from that place, is the mockery of the christ. And that is at the peril of the very soul they believe in, and it's destiny for the sin of contempt and hate, invoking jesus name in the process. I would say I'd pray for them, but if they believed in prayer, they would not commit themselves to become what many pray salvation from. When they seek to enter these forums and engage in decent conversation, but are told they have no right to do so here!






I've read the bible numerous times. I bought my house, a former church from the minister that owned it. I call him Old Father, or sometimes, "Priest" though he is not of the catholic clergy. He calls me heretic, and we laugh over cups of tea, and sometimes his favorite red wine.

I understand you are a believer in the christ, god and the bible. I'll let that , what you just said, be your words on the matter. A work of fiction indeed. For as wise and educated Mako has said, and he far outweighs me in knowledge of such matters, there exists no other text, to his knowledge, wherein other faiths god/gods/goddess, command slaughter of unbelievers.
So if the bible was written by men, as is admitted, compiled and slashed by councils that take all of gods breath and then determine what is worthy to enter into the public domain of the faithful, indeed it is worthy of discussion, when it is from that place, in those pages, we have the world that exists today. Where people can be shunned for not believing just so. Where they can be murdered because god ordains from the book. And even when people can be verbally assaulted , even among fellow christians that call them not "true" . Indeed, if we allow ourselves to become a people that is intimidated from speaking, we shall one day in short order be a people that also fear to think, outside what is permitted by those that intend to invoke the highest ordinance, to tell them they are not worthy and should remain mute.

I do not mock christ. If he lived today, he would love me. The bible tells me so.
It is a tragic truth indeed, that there are those in this whole wide world, and in this forum, that would clearly disagree.

Yep but if I told you the same joke every time I see you, it would ware pretty thin after awhile. A joke is a joke but a joke repeated daily is just plain annoying.




I agree with what you say here, but I am sure He would ask why you mock His followers?

and as many against the abolitionist movement were christian. ( it is the bulk religion here) but slavery itself wasn't their motive.

about Lincoln true.... but he was brought up because of the statement of christianity and slavery. the war was more about economics.

only a few ? well only a few maybe make the media. the ones who get killed that is. while it seems gay bashing has taken a back seat of late to harassing muslims here in Michigan. to be sure it hasn't gone away.

as in the same breath he'd ask why mock gays, athiests, jews , muslims, ect ....................................

And if I were guilty of such I alone would be accountable for such

Oh no. I would think he would ask his followers , why they mock his message. When they hate.

He would probably would set you up with some new jokes.

How many Messiah's does it take to screw in a light bulb!?

One!
To extend his finger, standing on the wavelets of the river Jordan, while saying: "Thou shalt turn and let there be light!"

That's what I want to know. Why are so many people in these forums villifying Christians? What is to be gained from that?

Well at least its not flashing

now here's a couple of jokes


Q. What's the difference between people who pray in church and those who pray in casinos?
A. The ones in the casinos are really serious!

Q. What do you get if you cross a Jehovah's Witness with an Atheist?
A. Someone who knocks on your door for no reason

Yeah! That's because Artists Hangout hasn't answered my PM about that , yet!

And Ripley, I love those! Someone that knocks on your door for no reason! Beautiful.

Intolerance and the Christian Right




I know many christians that are good and true to what they understand as the spirit of christ. They love me for who I am. They do not hate that I do not hold their faith. Instead they weep, and squeeze me tight, as I hold them when their pain calls me to them. They pray for world peace, that their children grow into the adult they nurture in the spirit of love for all people, today. And they say they thank god for this world, all of it, because it teaches them how to pray.

The bible is simply a book. No more and no less. And from it's pages have been born the spirit for war, and terror, in the name of love and light.

But that is not the responsibility of black and white. It is the responsibility of those that see god, as taking sides, among his children. Orchestrating division and strife.

For this Atheist there is no excuse of a disembodied spirit, working the strings upon us, like marionettes on a stage. It's us. It's always been us. We are our saviors and our devils too. When Jim Jones can taint grape Kool-Aid and murder the faithful, like unto sheep in his flock, it wasn't god that compelled that. But his mental disease, that thought he should.

When hundreds of thousands of people are made refugees in Darfur, because the muslim faith there is corrupted, when children are ground under boots , in the name of ethnic cleansing, it isn't allah that stamps that foot. It's the evil, that did it, because they had faith that they should.

When a doctor , with a family and a wife, is shot dead getting out of his car, because he arrived in the parking lot of an abortion clinic to go to work, it wasn't in jesus name that sniper setting him in the cross hairs, that that evil was committed. It was in the name of an agenda, that sees life as worthless outside the womb.

The bible is but a book. No more and no less. It is those that believe it speaks from god, that give it's words life, as they become what they believe would please the god of it, as they live in a world of billions, not like them.

I've met some of the most vicious and evil people, bearing the standard of the christ. I've met some of the most beautiful souls alive, loving jesus and their life.

But I have never in my living, seen a word get up and attack a single person. That takes the will of the individual, that believes, in the context of faith, their god would approve. I've read headlines for years, relating how people of many faiths across this globe, live their personal life besieged, because their existence is not approved.




This planet could be a paradise, if many didn't see god as a weapon.




Love is eternal.
Love is silence.
Always act from the heart.
Gentleness, Peace, Holiness and Light.
All creation is part of the tree of life.
Become dead to the world to be truly alive.
When free of all attachment, there will be compassion.
Knowledge and truth remain forever.
All is spirit. All is beautiful. Love all.


A Prayer for Peace
May we awaken to the sea of love that immerses us- that engulfs us- removing fear from our lives and seeking peace- peace within ourselves, peace in our families, peace in our communities, peace within nations, peace in the world- in the universe. May we understand and experience our true selves and manifest in the world as beings of light and joy- learning how to end suffering, heal the wounds we inflict on ourselves and others and rediscovering our connection to all spirit and love.

Pray and work in solidarity for the people of Oaxaca, Mexico who are standing up to government oppression and seeking the ouster of Governor Ulises Ruiz. Work for the release of prisoners that are unjustly held. Pray for the work of organizations such as the Popular Assembly of the Peoples of Oaxaca (APPO), the Women's Commission (COMO) and CIPO (Council of Indigenous People of Oaxaca). Pray that they remain non-violent and that the cause of justice for the poor and indigenous people become a rallying cry through out Mexico and the world.

Pray and work to end the fear and exploitation of immigrants. Pray and work for immediate and unconditional amnesty for immigrants and open borders for people of all races and nations.

Pray and work for peace in Tibet and the end of Chinese oppression and corruption.

Pray and work for the end of genocide in Darfur where more than 400,000 people have died and 2.5 million made refugees.

Pray for peace, calm and wisdom in the Middle East- the averting war with Iran; the ending of civil war in Iraq; tranquility in Lebanon and peace between Palestinians and Israel.

Pray that U.S. leaders be brought to justice for crimes against humanity, the erosion of civil liberties and other illegal acts that contravene international and U.S. law. Pray that the innocents imprisoned and tortured in Guantanamo Bay and elsewhere are freed. Free the San Francisco 8 and others the U.S. government is holding illegally and unjustly.

Pray that all peoples wake up to the threat of global capitalism whose goal is to maximize the wealth and power of its elites and destroy man's connection with spirit and life. Pray that the environmental devastation and suffering they wreak will end.

Pray and work for a 70%-80% reduction in global warming gas emission to avert worldwide climate catastrophe. Pray that this generation and future generations are spared the pain and suffering. May they forgive us for what we have done.. (Source)

Beautiful post GW.

simply beautiful

Beautiful post GW it brought a tear to my eye's or was that just the flashing neon sign at the bottom

enough harping on the sig already!

If it really, truly bothers you, then as a moderator you have the ability to do something about rather than carp.

Of course, that means that other "offensive" sigs should also be dealt with similiarly.

GW, I am honored to know you my friend you heart is beautiful , i haven't read anything as beautiful in a long time.....And so profound.....

But I have never in my living, seen a word get up and attack a single person. That takes the will of the individual, that believes, in the context of faith, their god would approve. I've read headlines for years, relating how people of many faiths across this globe, live their personal life besieged, because their existence is not approved.


Gosh this in particular touched me, thisis so true.... its the interpreter that gives life to the words on a page not anything else..one filters through their own awareness....In and of itself a word is just a word.......for some , not all ... they see the bible as a self justification to harm others with words and defend the right to do this and cry persecution when some say this is never godly to harm another be it in word or deed or standing behind an idea that causes harm..........


I too stand with joey and Gw on the sig, GW has more than taken enough shunning and ploys to harrass her ....how long is this gonna go on when flaming and trolling that should be dealt with isn't...

wow GW

I could say I find this offensive

if I were an athiest. there are plenty of things others can find offensive, but that's part of debate and individuality. maybe a counter sign like a flashing cross with Jesus Saves will counter balance ?

I've seen christian ones out there damning the athiests to hell yet no one has complained.

it's a 2 way street.

As an Atheist I don't find the Churchill quote offensive at all. He clearly had no concept of what Atheism is, so as to make such an analogy public. Criminals don't find police officers. Police officers find criminals. And relatively speaking, given his notions of a higher power, one could have retorted in the day, wouldn't it be lovely, if instead god believed in us!? Perhaps then , in his time WW2 would have never occurred, amid the prayers that rang to heaven, for something to stop the insanity, wrought by a mad man in Germany, in the name of his ideal of the Divine.


And I know the animated siggy you speak of. I saved it to my photo file, after someone emailed it to my attention. Complete with the phrase that frames it, because it's so damn funny. What amazes me, is how ignorant it is. It's not offensive to Atheists. Atheists do not believe in god, so that someone would think they worry about being damed to hell by that one that is so ignorant, is truly a laugh riot. But what it does say, is that ignorance that boasts it takes great pleasure in thinking like that, is already there. Right here on Earth. Because in their sense of hate for Atheists and so many others, they fail to realize, there is no such place to exist, for that Atheist. But it does exist, for the believer like that. That's justice, for the hater, indeed!

There is intolerance in literature. There's no doubt about it. But the bible is not simply a piece of imaginative or creative writing, it is supposedly the spoken word of god. Other literature is created from the minds of men, and is presented to be only that... man made, not a rule/history book from god. And to the best of my knowledge there isn't a single work of literature out there which comes with that little caveat which states that not receiving the contents of the book as fact and accepting the divine author as your personal saviour will result in eternal damnation.

It's not simply a work of literature... it's the basis for a religion. Until the Church of Charles Dickens starts sending missionaries around the globe to teach that only Oliver saves there seems little point in even attempting a comparson between a work of literary fiction and the book which Christians look to to determine every action and thought in life.

Oh, and when was the last time people went to war because the folks in the next land didn't believe Esmeralda loved them?

I'm moved beyond words. This post was very much needed in this forum.

the stories of the bible now are being taught in the charter my son is in as literature not to be taken literal, there is a disclaimer before each story ..... Certainly some choose or are raised to believe that the bible is gods word yet this is no different than my taking the wizard of oz and saying this is really happened and teaching it as God's word.....there is a wonderful book written by Ezra pound called the ABC"s of reading and it is a wonderful read on how great literature reflects a mindset of a culture, it embraces the beliefs of a culture to give a feel for what was beleived no construct is the 'right' construct' its just one way of interpretation..... not actual events..... the west is big on drawing the line on that which ios real and that which is myth, yet even then you have those that miss that .....

You're very welcome. And I would agree.

You are correct as one who does not believe the bible to be the word of God.

To the non-believer the bible is just a work of fiction and as such they are initialed to view and interpret as they see fit. With historical error and intolerance just like any other work of fiction. Without the key to unlock it is just a collection of books.

The Christian however values it differently and actually see’s it in a different light than the non-believer. To the Christian it is a remarkable and inspirational work. What makes it different to the Christian is most of it is a mystery in the beginning and is only understood by the assistance and guidance of the Holy Spirit. The key that unlocks the understanding of it is faith. One must first come by faith and then its mysteries are revealed to the individual soul. That is Gods way of protecting His word and ensures that all must come first by faith and then we received the evidence and understanding.
Believe it or not!

Irish

This is what I love about intolerance. That those who preach of the intolerance of others are themselves expressing the very thing they purport to despise.

The only great difference between a believer and a non-believer, when it comes to the bible, is the fact that the non-believer reads what's on the page, whereas the believer reads what they wish to see on the page.

Given that the usual response to "why did god kill all the first born of Egypt" is "because he's god and he can do what he likes", it's plainly obvious that it's the believer's willingness to love even the most destructive entity which separates them from the non-believer and alters their perception of what is contained in their holy book.

The holy spirit, used in this context... translated by some as "rose coloured spectacles", or perhaps more accurately "blinkers". Or maybe we could rename it "the ultimate defence" because it is one thing used so often to counter every claim made by a non-believer when it comes to disagreements regarding the contents of the bible.

You have to have faith before you can understand what it is you're being asked to have faith in, and you can only know what it is you're deciding to have faith in once you've decided to have it. Well that makes sense. I'm going to sit and look at the pineapple smoothie hubbie just bought me, and I'm going to believe it's delicious to demonstrate my faith in its deliciousness, because then when I taste it, I will know why I liked it before I even tried it.

Thats a very unfair generalization to make.


I answered your questions fairly and truthfully as I know. You are entitled to believe me or not that is what tolerance is all about.

Enjoy your smoothie
Irish

Bias alters our perception of the written word. This forum demonstrates how that works every day of the week.

My sister, a Christian for many years (now removed) has always believed that the bible is accessible to all. She often pointed out that Jesus spoke to ordinary men and women, not Oxford graduates with a library full of concordances, and they understood him well enough to come to have faith. He spoke, they listened, they understood, then they had faith. Her interpretation of the bible is no different since losing her faith in it than it was before she lost it... what is different is her unwillingness to ignore her own repulsion at the events described, her unwillingness to question how these events could have been the result of commands from a loving god, and her willingness to now consider herself worthy enough to raise her head and judge the god contained within that holy book. Her interpretation is not what has changed, her willingness to excuse it has. My original comment came directly from her - a Christian who now believes that the bible is a book created to foster intolerance, to create a society which is divided, by men who sought to gain from that separation.

Unfortunately my smoothie was too bitter. I prefer banana. So hubbie is buying me one right now... or maybe two, or three.

I would ask to whom you are referring, so as to apply your observation in it's proper context.

Everyone, GW.

We are all intolerant to a degree, and the very concept of intolerance seems a paradox in that, to ascribe it to someone - or a group - implies intolerance on the part of the ascriber. It just tickles me.