There have been numerous discussions (in fact, this forum seems to be mainly made up of these) that pertain to the ancient civilizations knowing far more than we usually give them credit for. i.e. the theories of Egypt holding electrical knowledge, Baghdad battery, the ancient Indian flying machines, etc.
Thrown into these discussions have been those of the Annunaki (though this is not another thread about them directly), ancient astronaut theorizations, and the possibility of certain myths holding more truth than previously considered (see the discussion on Krishna’s temple, or the strange anomaly of Adam’s bridge, etc.)
What I’ve been considering, and curious about there being a discussion on, is the truth behind the mythologies that the more ancient people held. I’d like this not to be another discussion about the Biblical truths or the Annunaki, or things of that nature, but rather, of the multiple world theories presented by Native American’s and their correlation with other culture’s beliefs, in particular the Australian Dream Time (is that the right word for it?) belief or the Norse multi-layered world, etc. and what that could possibly mean.
If you would like, I can add links to this to fuel further discussion.
Full Version: Ancient wisdom
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Ancient Mysteries & Alternative History
QUOTE(Madcap @ Jun 11 2007, 03:27 AM) [snapback]1718063[/snapback]
What I’ve been considering, and curious about there being a discussion on, is the truth behind the mythologies that the more ancient people held. I’d like this not to be another discussion about the Biblical truths or the Annunaki, or things of that nature, but rather, of the multiple world theories presented by Native American’s and their correlation with other culture’s beliefs, in particular the Australian Dream Time (is that the right word for it?) belief or the Norse multi-layered world, etc. and what that could possibly mean.
If you would like, I can add links to this to fuel further discussion.
If you would like, I can add links to this to fuel further discussion.
For me, the 'many worlds mythologies' derive from the various psychological states we experience throughout our lives.
Have you ever wandered through a woods/forest on a lovely summers day, found a clearing and sat and just felt at peace? Imagine ancient man doing this and imagining another world where every day was like that, where people were happy, things were good, game was plentiful....sound familiar?
Now imagine one of your darker days, something awful may have happened. Everything seems dark, perhaps cloudy as your grief/anger overrides your focus. There is a sense of loss, confusion. Now this is translated into a mythology and you have a dark, chaotic place of misery and suffering.
Mythology comes from within. You simply have to look within yourself and recognise the fears and dreams you carry with you to understand what ancient humans tried to convey with their mythologies.
trojan war wa sthought to be a myth until they discovered some potteries. I agree with the TS, sometimes it makes you wonder, what if some "myths" were actually "legends" derives from real events.
QUOTE(Leonardo @ Jun 11 2007, 08:11 AM) [snapback]1718314[/snapback]
Mythology comes from within.
Nail on the head. In my opinion its completely pointless to try and line mythologies up with real events. It is far far more likely that myths from around the world were created by simpler civilisations in order to make sense of the world around them.
You're mixing too many things up in your OP anyway. There are many things we don't give the ancients credit for. The Baghdad batteries are a genuine mystery, but electricity is fundamental. There is no reason they couldn't have designed something like that without knowing exactly how it worked. Its not like we've dug up a 3000 year old widescreen TV.
The indian flying machines and the "many worlds" myths are just that, and it is pointless to work out if they were anything other than just stories as we have nothing to go by in regards to proof. As I said, we HAVE to view them as metaphors, its the only thing that makes sense.
And as for the Annunaki.... well I don't want to go there, but there is NO proof - none, zlich, nada - of any cultural reference to them outside of one man's translations that have been PROVEN to be wrong, despite the fact that people on this board seem to readily ignore that fact.
QUOTE(bluelight @ Jun 11 2007, 12:31 PM) [snapback]1718473[/snapback]
trojan war wa sthought to be a myth until they discovered some potteries. I agree with the TS, sometimes it makes you wonder, what if some "myths" were actually "legends" derives from real events.
The Trojan war is still only myth. Discovering "potteries" isn't proof.
Myths like that, and Atlantis are stories based on real political and social situations and used as educational tools by the philosophers who wrote them.
Hello Madcap,
welcome to the forum.
These are questions that I wonder too and hopefully this thread that you have started will be an opportunity to explore those ideas.
As Leonardo so eloquently stated much of it may be the human condition or struggle to understand its place in the world, the varied feelings that we experience on the journey but I do have a side that wonders if although it may play a part it is not entirely one thing or another. It's the layers and the multiple interpretations that are interesting. Even those that are considered standard. LOL!
I think that if you try to define the myth/histories too precisely you may miss their points.
It might be nice if you pick one to start the discussion off with..
Regards,
Mabon.
welcome to the forum.
These are questions that I wonder too and hopefully this thread that you have started will be an opportunity to explore those ideas.
As Leonardo so eloquently stated much of it may be the human condition or struggle to understand its place in the world, the varied feelings that we experience on the journey but I do have a side that wonders if although it may play a part it is not entirely one thing or another. It's the layers and the multiple interpretations that are interesting. Even those that are considered standard. LOL!
I think that if you try to define the myth/histories too precisely you may miss their points.
It might be nice if you pick one to start the discussion off with..
Regards,
Mabon.
As the saying goes, 'no smoke without fire'.
I think several "myths" have some basis to them, but over the years, be it as a result of the author's imagination running wild, or in the ancient days when writing things down was not common, 'Chinese whispers' ended up distorting the story to a point whereby they were not at all believable.
Basically, I see ancient myths much in the same way as the movie Big Fish - anyone watched it? I think that's exactly what it is, come a few years on we'll find many new discoveries and such showing parts of these myths to be true after all.
I think several "myths" have some basis to them, but over the years, be it as a result of the author's imagination running wild, or in the ancient days when writing things down was not common, 'Chinese whispers' ended up distorting the story to a point whereby they were not at all believable.
Basically, I see ancient myths much in the same way as the movie Big Fish - anyone watched it? I think that's exactly what it is, come a few years on we'll find many new discoveries and such showing parts of these myths to be true after all.
Science tries to make logical sense out of myths! But even in this alot of things explained about ancient myths/civilizations through science just does not add up. We can only speculate, and theorize, what these ancient mysteries were really mean't to be, or used for.
QUOTE(Dragonwick @ Jun 11 2007, 04:13 PM) [snapback]1718723[/snapback]
Science tries to make logical sense out of myths! But even in this alot of things explained about ancient myths/civilizations through science just does not add up. We can only speculate, and theorize, what these ancient mysteries were really mean't to be, or used for.
science at no time tries to make sense of mythology
mythology is not a science
we don't need to speculate or theorize as doing this without facts always leads to the wrong answer
you need to collect data and then come up with a hypothesis that is testable
it was this method that led to the discovery of Troy
QUOTE(Emma_Acid_88 @ Jun 11 2007, 01:00 PM) [snapback]1718494[/snapback]
The Trojan war is still only myth. Discovering "potteries" isn't proof.
Myths like that, and Atlantis are stories based on real political and social situations and used as educational tools by the philosophers who wrote them.
Myths like that, and Atlantis are stories based on real political and social situations and used as educational tools by the philosophers who wrote them.
Exactly. London exists. Well, it did last time I looked, anyway. Yet that doesn't mean every story set in London is based on real events.
QUOTE(apollyon @ Jun 11 2007, 11:24 AM) [snapback]1718735[/snapback]
science at no time tries to make sense of mythology
mythology is not a science
we don't need to speculate or theorize as doing this without facts always leads to the wrong answer
you need to collect data and then come up with a hypothesis that is testable
it was this method that led to the discovery of Troy
mythology is not a science
we don't need to speculate or theorize as doing this without facts always leads to the wrong answer
you need to collect data and then come up with a hypothesis that is testable
it was this method that led to the discovery of Troy
You are correct mythology is not a science. I am only pointing out that science can be used to explain
the stories behind these myths.
Science is another way to explain the world about us. It can involve experiments that can be proven to have repeatable results, or theories that are supported by observations. Over time, new observations and/or theories can replace previously agreed theories about how things work. Because science is not exact, some people consider science and mythology to have a lot of similarities.
QUOTE(Dragonwick @ Jun 11 2007, 04:55 PM) [snapback]1718799[/snapback]
You are correct mythology is not a science. I am only pointing out that science can be used to explain
the stories behind these myths.
Science is another way to explain the world about us. It can involve experiments that can be proven to have repeatable results, or theories that are supported by observations. Over time, new observations and/or theories can replace previously agreed theories about how things work. Because science is not exact, some people consider science and mythology to have a lot of similarities.
the stories behind these myths.
Science is another way to explain the world about us. It can involve experiments that can be proven to have repeatable results, or theories that are supported by observations. Over time, new observations and/or theories can replace previously agreed theories about how things work. Because science is not exact, some people consider science and mythology to have a lot of similarities.
ok so how would you use science to explain the mythology surrounding fairies ?
QUOTE(apollyon @ Jun 11 2007, 12:05 PM) [snapback]1718815[/snapback]
ok so how would you use science to explain the mythology surrounding fairies ?
At no point in this thread have I said that science can explain all myths! But it can explain some of them.
For example a mixture of scientific and historical research techniques can be used to try to explain how certain myths came about. For example, several myths have probably been created to explain the presence of fossils in rocks, some of which are from very strange looking animals. One example is the theory that the Ancient Greek myths of the Cyclops, a one-eyed giant, were based on the discovery of fossilized Mammoth bones; the hole in the skull being interpreted as an eye-socket and the other bones being placed together in the shape of a man rather than in the shape of a large elephant where they should be.
Science and mythology are two different ways of looking at the “underlying reality”. It has been argued that we cannot know that underlying reality directly, therefore we tell stories about it. Science is one version of the story and mythology and folklore are another, but they convey different truths about the underlying reality.
QUOTE(Dragonwick @ Jun 11 2007, 05:15 PM) [snapback]1718828[/snapback]
At no point in this thread have I said that science can explain all myths! But it can explain some of them.
One example is the theory that the Ancient Greek myths of the Cyclops, a one-eyed giant, were based on the discovery of fossilized Mammoth bones; the hole in the skull being interpreted as an eye-socket and the other bones being placed together in the shape of a man rather than in the shape of a large elephant where they should be.
One example is the theory that the Ancient Greek myths of the Cyclops, a one-eyed giant, were based on the discovery of fossilized Mammoth bones; the hole in the skull being interpreted as an eye-socket and the other bones being placed together in the shape of a man rather than in the shape of a large elephant where they should be.
that is not an example at all
its pure speculation
what youre saying is that greeks who were the most scientifically advanced group on earth at that time saw a mammoth skull (no evidence) and suddenly believed it was from a giant human with one eye
the fact that they were well aware of what an elephants skull looks like needs to be factored into your argument
also the small detail that the ancient greeks never travelled to any place like Siberia where Mammoth bones were available
and when it is of course your argument evaporates........
perhaps claiming that early proto greeks came across an elephants skull for the first time and then thought up Cyclops would be a more acceptable alternative, but its still 100% speculation
you can't prove or disprove non scientific subjects with science
I'll give you a famous example
Q. did you have feelings of love for your mother
now go prove it with science
QUOTE(apollyon @ Jun 11 2007, 12:25 PM) [snapback]1718839[/snapback]
that is not an example at all
its pure speculation
what youre saying is that greeks who were the most scientifically advanced group on earth at that time saw a mammoth skull (no evidence) and suddenly believed it was from a giant human with one eye
the fact that they were well aware of what an elephants skull looks like needs to be factored into your argument
also the small detail that the ancient greeks never travelled to any place like Siberia where Mammoth bones were available
and when it is of course your argument evaporates........
perhaps claiming that early proto greeks came across an elephants skull for the first time and then thought up Cyclops would be a more acceptable alternative, but its still 100% speculation
you can't prove or disprove non scientific subjects with science
I'll give you a famous example
Q. did you have feelings of love for your mother
now go prove it with science
its pure speculation
what youre saying is that greeks who were the most scientifically advanced group on earth at that time saw a mammoth skull (no evidence) and suddenly believed it was from a giant human with one eye
the fact that they were well aware of what an elephants skull looks like needs to be factored into your argument
also the small detail that the ancient greeks never travelled to any place like Siberia where Mammoth bones were available
and when it is of course your argument evaporates........
perhaps claiming that early proto greeks came across an elephants skull for the first time and then thought up Cyclops would be a more acceptable alternative, but its still 100% speculation
you can't prove or disprove non scientific subjects with science
I'll give you a famous example
Q. did you have feelings of love for your mother
now go prove it with science
I will accept that! Science and mythology are of two total differences.
Mythology is a more literary tradition! Myths deal with gods & heroes; folktales deal with the human interaction with the [natural] world (sometimes includes the realm of Faerie).
Science refers to any systematic methodology which attempts to collect accurate information about the shared reality and to model this in a way which can be used to make reliable, concrete and quantitative predictions about events, in line with hypotheses proven by experiment.
You really can't combine the two together.
Thanks,
QUOTE(Emma_Acid_88 @ Jun 11 2007, 04:58 AM) [snapback]1718490[/snapback]
Nail on the head. In my opinion its completely pointless to try and line mythologies up with real events. It is far far more likely that myths from around the world were created by simpler civilisations in order to make sense of the world around them.
You're mixing too many things up in your OP anyway. There are many things we don't give the ancients credit for. The Baghdad batteries are a genuine mystery, but electricity is fundamental. There is no reason they couldn't have designed something like that without knowing exactly how it worked. Its not like we've dug up a 3000 year old widescreen TV.
The indian flying machines and the "many worlds" myths are just that, and it is pointless to work out if they were anything other than just stories as we have nothing to go by in regards to proof. As I said, we HAVE to view them as metaphors, its the only thing that makes sense.
And as for the Annunaki.... well I don't want to go there, but there is NO proof - none, zlich, nada - of any cultural reference to them outside of one man's translations that have been PROVEN to be wrong, despite the fact that people on this board seem to readily ignore that fact.
You're mixing too many things up in your OP anyway. There are many things we don't give the ancients credit for. The Baghdad batteries are a genuine mystery, but electricity is fundamental. There is no reason they couldn't have designed something like that without knowing exactly how it worked. Its not like we've dug up a 3000 year old widescreen TV.
The indian flying machines and the "many worlds" myths are just that, and it is pointless to work out if they were anything other than just stories as we have nothing to go by in regards to proof. As I said, we HAVE to view them as metaphors, its the only thing that makes sense.
And as for the Annunaki.... well I don't want to go there, but there is NO proof - none, zlich, nada - of any cultural reference to them outside of one man's translations that have been PROVEN to be wrong, despite the fact that people on this board seem to readily ignore that fact.
I'm not necessarily trying to line up ALL mythologies with actual events, just viewing it theoretically and what might have happened to cause people to think it. I agree with what you said, mythology is essentially early science -- just trying to work things out. Doesn't mean it can't have had a basic basis in reality, though.
I don't think we ever will dig up a 3000 year old widescreen TV, or something close to it, but there's no real reason to believe that the ancients didn't have technologies that we take for granted nowadays. Our views of the Romans and how technologically advanced they were is constantly changing. Their mechanisms were incredibly complex -- the work of Herod comes to mind, with his singing automaton bird. =)
The indian flying machines I believe have been proven to exist. The Hindus accept them as fact and in the late 1890s (I believe) a man actually built one that ended up flying. I can find the information on it, if you'd like.
The Annunaki theories are crap, in my opinion, which I believe I made clear in my OP. I'm not ignoring the fact that his transalations are bunk, and the reason I brought them up in my OP is because I don't want this thread to go the way that all of those have in the first place.
Thanks for the reply, by the way. =)
QUOTE(Madcap @ Jun 11 2007, 03:27 AM) [snapback]1718063[/snapback]
There have been numerous discussions (in fact, this forum seems to be mainly made up of these) that pertain to the ancient civilizations knowing far more than we usually give them credit for. i.e. the theories of Egypt holding electrical knowledge, Baghdad battery, the ancient Indian flying machines, etc.
Thrown into these discussions have been those of the Annunaki (though this is not another thread about them directly), ancient astronaut theorizations, and the possibility of certain myths holding more truth than previously considered (see the discussion on Krishna’s temple, or the strange anomaly of Adam’s bridge, etc.)
What I’ve been considering, and curious about there being a discussion on, is the truth behind the mythologies that the more ancient people held. I’d like this not to be another discussion about the Biblical truths or the Annunaki, or things of that nature, but rather, of the multiple world theories presented by Native American’s and their correlation with other culture’s beliefs, in particular the Australian Dream Time (is that the right word for it?) belief or the Norse multi-layered world, etc. and what that could possibly mean.
If you would like, I can add links to this to fuel further discussion.
Thrown into these discussions have been those of the Annunaki (though this is not another thread about them directly), ancient astronaut theorizations, and the possibility of certain myths holding more truth than previously considered (see the discussion on Krishna’s temple, or the strange anomaly of Adam’s bridge, etc.)
What I’ve been considering, and curious about there being a discussion on, is the truth behind the mythologies that the more ancient people held. I’d like this not to be another discussion about the Biblical truths or the Annunaki, or things of that nature, but rather, of the multiple world theories presented by Native American’s and their correlation with other culture’s beliefs, in particular the Australian Dream Time (is that the right word for it?) belief or the Norse multi-layered world, etc. and what that could possibly mean.
If you would like, I can add links to this to fuel further discussion.
I have no doubt that there are myths that have an element of truth to them but its important to remember that in all ancient cultures there was an industry of storytellers and mythmakers - people who actually made a good living from creating tales and telling them in public. Many of the best storytellers and mythmakers became famous in their own right - like novelists today.
All Myths cannot just be waved away as tall tales. Maybe they are exagarrated just like many hollywood based on a true story movies but that does not mean they do not posses some real events. The verbal handing down of stories will always bring such an effect. But one has to take into account the detailed astronomical knowledge that many of these "fairy tales" have. some of which superceded that of early 20th century sciences. Now imagine how easy it would be to loose all our knowledge, imagine tommorow their would be a massive climate change and only a few humans would survive would they be able to bring back civilization back or would they start from scratch with stories of what was, the acquistion of food would supercede the need for knowledge.
QUOTE(Madcap @ Jun 11 2007, 11:14 PM) [snapback]1719387[/snapback]
The indian flying machines I believe have been proven to exist. The Hindus accept them as fact and in the late 1890s (I believe) a man actually built one that ended up flying. I can find the information on it, if you'd like
ooh yes please
In list form would be good !!!!!!!!!!
QUOTE(apollyon @ Jun 11 2007, 07:54 PM) [snapback]1719793[/snapback]
ooh yes please
In list form would be good !!!!!!!!!!
In list form would be good !!!!!!!!!!
From another topic, but still valid to this point: Lavelesh
Wiki
Crystalinks A Hindu Creation site that delves into the vimanas a bit.
For the actual texts
Now, back to the topic I said before, about a man who supposedly built one.
There was an entire topic on UM on this, which I feel I should note before going into this.
These are the links that were presented in that thread.
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Vimanas.htm
http://www.augustmystery.com/MysteryFiles/26flyinghigh.html
http://www.book-of-thoth.com/article_submi...an-vimanas.html
They said it was built with a mercury engine, so aztek provided this link:
http://rabi.phys.virginia.edu/HTW/page1.php?QNum=1118
Saard finished by e-mailing the newspaper that covered the story for verification, but was unable to get any due to not speaking Hindi.
That's all in the way of links I'm going to post right now. Later on tonight I'll poke around more and get some more solid information on Talpade (The scholar who supposedly built one.) These all make for interesting reads, however.
QUOTE(Madcap @ Jun 12 2007, 04:11 PM) [snapback]1721054[/snapback]
From another topic, but still valid to this point: Lavelesh
Wiki
Crystalinks A Hindu Creation site that delves into the vimanas a bit.
For the actual texts
Now, back to the topic I said before, about a man who supposedly built one.
There was an entire topic on UM on this, which I feel I should note before going into this.
These are the links that were presented in that thread.
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Vimanas.htm
http://www.augustmystery.com/MysteryFiles/26flyinghigh.html
http://www.book-of-thoth.com/article_submi...an-vimanas.html
They said it was built with a mercury engine, so aztek provided this link:
http://rabi.phys.virginia.edu/HTW/page1.php?QNum=1118
Saard finished by e-mailing the newspaper that covered the story for verification, but was unable to get any due to not speaking Hindi.
That's all in the way of links I'm going to post right now. Later on tonight I'll poke around more and get some more solid information on Talpade (The scholar who supposedly built one.) These all make for interesting reads, however.
Wiki
Crystalinks A Hindu Creation site that delves into the vimanas a bit.
For the actual texts
Now, back to the topic I said before, about a man who supposedly built one.
There was an entire topic on UM on this, which I feel I should note before going into this.
These are the links that were presented in that thread.
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Vimanas.htm
http://www.augustmystery.com/MysteryFiles/26flyinghigh.html
http://www.book-of-thoth.com/article_submi...an-vimanas.html
They said it was built with a mercury engine, so aztek provided this link:
http://rabi.phys.virginia.edu/HTW/page1.php?QNum=1118
Saard finished by e-mailing the newspaper that covered the story for verification, but was unable to get any due to not speaking Hindi.
That's all in the way of links I'm going to post right now. Later on tonight I'll poke around more and get some more solid information on Talpade (The scholar who supposedly built one.) These all make for interesting reads, however.
Maybe could you supply some neutral, third-party evidence from website without an active agenda to support?
/Obviously/ hinduwisdom.info has an interest in promoting the flying cars some adherents of their religion espouse, and augustmystery.com seems to rely on third- and fourth-hand versions of flying cars...
Not all 'evidence' is created equal. Especially on teh internets.
--Jaylemurph
PS: I saw you linked to a listing of Indian Holy Texts. As there are thousands upon thousands of lines of poetry, maybe you could zero in on the appropriate sections -- or even the right book?
QUOTE(jaylemurph @ Jun 12 2007, 01:22 PM) [snapback]1721077[/snapback]
Maybe could you supply some neutral, third-party evidence from website without an active agenda to support?
/Obviously/ hinduwisdom.info has an interest in promoting the flying cars some adherents of their religion espouse, and augustmystery.com seems to rely on third- and fourth-hand versions of flying cars...
Not all 'evidence' is created equal. Especially on teh internets.
--Jaylemurph
PS: I saw you linked to a listing of Indian Holy Texts. As there are thousands upon thousands of lines of poetry, maybe you could zero in on the appropriate sections -- or even the right book?
/Obviously/ hinduwisdom.info has an interest in promoting the flying cars some adherents of their religion espouse, and augustmystery.com seems to rely on third- and fourth-hand versions of flying cars...
Not all 'evidence' is created equal. Especially on teh internets.
--Jaylemurph
PS: I saw you linked to a listing of Indian Holy Texts. As there are thousands upon thousands of lines of poetry, maybe you could zero in on the appropriate sections -- or even the right book?
Sorry about the inadequate links.
Trying to find some better ones now. http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/ancientman/03_vimana.html
I thought this one was pretty interesting.
http://www.americanantigravity.com/blogs/3...rts-Vimana.html
More later.
In regards to your PS, I'll try to quote the specific passages next time around.
Should be putting those up in a few hours.
Sorry, again.
QUOTE(Madcap @ Jun 12 2007, 03:35 PM) [snapback]1721095[/snapback]
Sorry about the inadequate links. Trying to find some better ones now.
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/ancientman/03_vimana.html
I thought this one was pretty interesting.
http://www.americanantigravity.com/blogs/3...rts-Vimana.html
More later.
In regards to your PS, I'll try to quote the specific passages next time around.
Should be putting those up in a few hours.
Sorry, again.
Trying to find some better ones now. http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/ancientman/03_vimana.html
I thought this one was pretty interesting.
http://www.americanantigravity.com/blogs/3...rts-Vimana.html
More later.
In regards to your PS, I'll try to quote the specific passages next time around.
Should be putting those up in a few hours.
Sorry, again.
Madcap,
The blog you linked (last link) was so rife with errors that I couldn't read all of it.
Also, it's loaded with statements like "I know for a fact..." and "These people had nuclear weapons...." with no substantiating evidence whatsoever. (Dude, S8int.com counts for nothing.)
I've looked pretty deeply into these claims about ancient India, and I've not found a single thing to substantiate a even the tiniest iota of it.
I'd be extremely surprised if you do.
You might want to read my post in this thread:
Vedic or Sumerian
Also, I wonder if you know that the Vimanyka Shastra, which gives the "technical" details about these craft, was actually written in the twentieth century?
Harte
Harte,
I'm glad that you joined this discussion! You seem so interested in the ancient myths that I am going to enjoy picking your brain! LOL!
Going to have to study up on my mythologies and get back in here.
Regards,
Mabon.
I'm glad that you joined this discussion! You seem so interested in the ancient myths that I am going to enjoy picking your brain! LOL!
Going to have to study up on my mythologies and get back in here.
Regards,
Mabon.
QUOTE(Mabon @ Jun 13 2007, 03:18 PM) [snapback]1722956[/snapback]
Harte,
I'm glad that you joined this discussion! You seem so interested in the ancient myths that I am going to enjoy picking your brain! LOL!
Going to have to study up on my mythologies and get back in here.
Regards,
Mabon.
I'm glad that you joined this discussion! You seem so interested in the ancient myths that I am going to enjoy picking your brain! LOL!
Going to have to study up on my mythologies and get back in here.
Regards,
Mabon.
You'll probably be disappointed - not that much there to pick, really. I'm more of a supporter of the scientific method than I am a classicist or mythologist.
Harte
If you look at the history of story tellers... bards.. minstrels .... you'd find that it was a serious business... oral tradition was all they had in many cases.... often too put to music .. song ..... to help them remember...
http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/cml/cml06.htm
http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/timeless/chapter06.htm
http://www.maryforrest.com/mythology/
and then we need to understand their perceptions... their meanings for words... phrases....
http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/cml/cml06.htm
http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/timeless/chapter06.htm
http://www.maryforrest.com/mythology/
QUOTE
http://www.chalicecentre.net/wordofskill.htm
For centuries ago, many of these fireside tales were once the property of the Celtic aristocracy, recited in hall or battle-camp by men of the highest rank, known as filidh, These men were members of a learned order within the privileged class, guardians of an oral-based culture and living repositories of its history and mythology. They underwent at least twelve years of intensive training in developing memory and concentration, and learned literally hundreds of stories and verses, histories, and genealogies. A fili's repertoire had to include tales of Destructions, Cattle Raids, Courtships, Battles, Deaths, Feasts, Adventures in the Otherworld, Elopements and Visions. He was a composer,too, who had mastered the art of crafting verse in intricate metrical forms.
Such a long education was rewarded well: on graduating, a fili wore a cloak of crimson and yellow feathers, and carried a golden rod. Each year he received twenty-one cows, food for himself and twenty attendants. He could keep six horses, two dogs, and was granted immunity from arrest for any crime save treason or murder.The tales he told were even longer than the seanachie's: "serialised", as we would say, over several evenings in a chieftain's hall, which as Jeffrey Gantz points out, "would be in the storyteller's interest once during that time he would be enjoying his host's hospitality."
When the written word was introduced into Ireland at the beginning of the Christian era, the "Men of Art" were forbidden to write their knowledge down. So precious was the gift of memory, it was not to be jeopardized, impaled on the point of a pen. Stories shifted shape like the characters within them, from extemporaneous prose to complex alliterative verse, here embellished by the harp, there settling into formulaic passages familiar to all.
Moreover, the spoken word held the power of breath, was literally inspiration, which was considered a gift from the great goddess Brigit, patron of poetry and divination. As such, the spoken word could make magic, invoke the divine. A very fine line existed between story, poetry and incantation in early Celtic culture. The title fili, generally meaning "poet" or "storyteller" interchangeably, has also been translated as "weaver of spells."
For centuries ago, many of these fireside tales were once the property of the Celtic aristocracy, recited in hall or battle-camp by men of the highest rank, known as filidh, These men were members of a learned order within the privileged class, guardians of an oral-based culture and living repositories of its history and mythology. They underwent at least twelve years of intensive training in developing memory and concentration, and learned literally hundreds of stories and verses, histories, and genealogies. A fili's repertoire had to include tales of Destructions, Cattle Raids, Courtships, Battles, Deaths, Feasts, Adventures in the Otherworld, Elopements and Visions. He was a composer,too, who had mastered the art of crafting verse in intricate metrical forms.
Such a long education was rewarded well: on graduating, a fili wore a cloak of crimson and yellow feathers, and carried a golden rod. Each year he received twenty-one cows, food for himself and twenty attendants. He could keep six horses, two dogs, and was granted immunity from arrest for any crime save treason or murder.The tales he told were even longer than the seanachie's: "serialised", as we would say, over several evenings in a chieftain's hall, which as Jeffrey Gantz points out, "would be in the storyteller's interest once during that time he would be enjoying his host's hospitality."
When the written word was introduced into Ireland at the beginning of the Christian era, the "Men of Art" were forbidden to write their knowledge down. So precious was the gift of memory, it was not to be jeopardized, impaled on the point of a pen. Stories shifted shape like the characters within them, from extemporaneous prose to complex alliterative verse, here embellished by the harp, there settling into formulaic passages familiar to all.
Moreover, the spoken word held the power of breath, was literally inspiration, which was considered a gift from the great goddess Brigit, patron of poetry and divination. As such, the spoken word could make magic, invoke the divine. A very fine line existed between story, poetry and incantation in early Celtic culture. The title fili, generally meaning "poet" or "storyteller" interchangeably, has also been translated as "weaver of spells."
and then we need to understand their perceptions... their meanings for words... phrases....
QUOTE(crystal sage @ Jun , 10:08 AM)
and then we need to understand their perceptions... their meanings for words... phrases....
QUOTE
http://web.cocc.edu/cagatucci/classes/hum211/afrstory.htm
African proverbs and stories draw upon the collective wisdom of oral peoples, express their "structures of meaning, feeling, thought, and expression," and thus serve important social and ethical purposes: "The story itself is a primary form of the oral tradition, primary as a mode of conveying culture, experience, and values and as a means of transmitting knowledge, wisdom, feelings, and attitudes in oral societies"; a central position is thus "given to the story in the oral tradition…by African writers in the shaping of their literary world and works…" (Obiechina, "Narrative Proverbs in the African Novel").
One cannot study African literatures without studying the particular cultures and oratures on which African writers draw...for their themes and values, for their narrative structures and plots, for their rhythms and styles, for their images and metaphors, for their artistic and ethical principles. As Solomon Iyasere puts it in "Oral Tradition in the Criticism of African Literature":
I'd say that is what we need to consider when we look at the legends... oral or written histories of any nation... era!!!!
African proverbs and stories draw upon the collective wisdom of oral peoples, express their "structures of meaning, feeling, thought, and expression," and thus serve important social and ethical purposes: "The story itself is a primary form of the oral tradition, primary as a mode of conveying culture, experience, and values and as a means of transmitting knowledge, wisdom, feelings, and attitudes in oral societies"; a central position is thus "given to the story in the oral tradition…by African writers in the shaping of their literary world and works…" (Obiechina, "Narrative Proverbs in the African Novel").
One cannot study African literatures without studying the particular cultures and oratures on which African writers draw...for their themes and values, for their narrative structures and plots, for their rhythms and styles, for their images and metaphors, for their artistic and ethical principles. As Solomon Iyasere puts it in "Oral Tradition in the Criticism of African Literature":
I'd say that is what we need to consider when we look at the legends... oral or written histories of any nation... era!!!!
...but then.... We study history...the classics...humanism... to learn about ourselves...how far we have come... where we could go next...
....and ...How /where do we get our information???
From interpreting..archeological.digs.....remnants from the ages.. bardic tales... myths... legends...religious writings...(Who interprets all this for us???...Why do we accept that interpretation as fact...base our histories..our realities on it??)
How long ago did someone decide what certain findings...writings meant...???
What was the psychological state... the politics.. the religion of the time...that reflected His ..Their ..Reality...Perceptions of the time???
Our 'Now'.. is based on all those deductions. the Groundwork laid by those people..intellectuals..the clerics.. the rulers of the time.... the skilled sifting of all facts...of the researchers of the time.. the politics of the time... the poets of the time.. the journals of the time.. the historians of the time...
If one looks at the Media today.. How true all the information is now..
..Even with..the freedom of information acts!!!
How much truth is hidden from us today.. or disguised..
How much can we really rely on all the old gathered facts.. the sifted facts...that had to be approved by ??? to get written.. to be ackknowledged as right...true...
or approximately true...
These are all things..knowledge we have been spoonfed..by our education systems..
Many works are based on previous studies.. old 'recieved' knowledge of suppositions of their time...
..How much reality..groundings ..knowings are based on..shakey groundwork..
Remember many works today and the past..refer to other works...who had refered to other works..
>>the shakey chain of knowledge..
Assumed knowledge...
Well researched knowledge
We of course know that In the 'Old Days" every one told the truth... that they really had a clue..
No -one simply assumed any facts..and based our reality on that..taught that reality at schools of the past..
and that it..( old shakey knowings) didn't influence or have a grounding where the wise ones of the past or of the now..built all their facts..realities on..
Even in the bible somewhere...they hint at not building large houses on sandy shakey soil...foundations!!!
HMMMMM!!!..
...I think it is time for the Modern Students..Teachers..Scientists... to do a major Springclean..of all 'Knowings'
Go through all the attics...basements of knowledge..all the Museums..all storage places of Knowings.. (Rome is a good place) etc.. sift through it all...look and see what information has seen the light of day.. what hasn't... what bits were left out.. look where the emphasis has been changed... ...and simply lay a new foundation...
More than ever before..we now have the manpower..the brains..the querying minds...the open minds..the technology..new freedoms..to do all this right RIGHT.now..!!!
To see what our foundations truly are!!!
And simply build a new world on that!
I am absolutely certain that the world would change for the better..if this were done!!
A new world based on the BEST TRUTH.. to our present understanding...a cleansed truth..
something that should be re'evaluated accasionally.. with Integrity...and Respect..
Any comments???
'''''' just think... how much important information had been laid aside...discarded... destroyed..or laughingly ignored as it didn't fit in with the held opinions of the time.. or that it flagrantly contradicted the political .. or religious climate of the times..... we need to dust these off and lay them out ...and have another look... because as we all know... that truth is very much stranger than fiction!!!!
....and ...How /where do we get our information???
From interpreting..archeological.digs.....remnants from the ages.. bardic tales... myths... legends...religious writings...(Who interprets all this for us???...Why do we accept that interpretation as fact...base our histories..our realities on it??)
How long ago did someone decide what certain findings...writings meant...???
What was the psychological state... the politics.. the religion of the time...that reflected His ..Their ..Reality...Perceptions of the time???
Our 'Now'.. is based on all those deductions. the Groundwork laid by those people..intellectuals..the clerics.. the rulers of the time.... the skilled sifting of all facts...of the researchers of the time.. the politics of the time... the poets of the time.. the journals of the time.. the historians of the time...
If one looks at the Media today.. How true all the information is now..
..Even with..the freedom of information acts!!!
How much truth is hidden from us today.. or disguised..
How much can we really rely on all the old gathered facts.. the sifted facts...that had to be approved by ??? to get written.. to be ackknowledged as right...true...
or approximately true...
These are all things..knowledge we have been spoonfed..by our education systems..
Many works are based on previous studies.. old 'recieved' knowledge of suppositions of their time...
..How much reality..groundings ..knowings are based on..shakey groundwork..
Remember many works today and the past..refer to other works...who had refered to other works..
>>the shakey chain of knowledge..
Assumed knowledge...
Well researched knowledge
We of course know that In the 'Old Days" every one told the truth... that they really had a clue..
No -one simply assumed any facts..and based our reality on that..taught that reality at schools of the past..
and that it..( old shakey knowings) didn't influence or have a grounding where the wise ones of the past or of the now..built all their facts..realities on..
Even in the bible somewhere...they hint at not building large houses on sandy shakey soil...foundations!!!
HMMMMM!!!..
...I think it is time for the Modern Students..Teachers..Scientists... to do a major Springclean..of all 'Knowings'
Go through all the attics...basements of knowledge..all the Museums..all storage places of Knowings.. (Rome is a good place) etc.. sift through it all...look and see what information has seen the light of day.. what hasn't... what bits were left out.. look where the emphasis has been changed... ...and simply lay a new foundation...
More than ever before..we now have the manpower..the brains..the querying minds...the open minds..the technology..new freedoms..to do all this right RIGHT.now..!!!
To see what our foundations truly are!!!
And simply build a new world on that!
I am absolutely certain that the world would change for the better..if this were done!!
A new world based on the BEST TRUTH.. to our present understanding...a cleansed truth..
something that should be re'evaluated accasionally.. with Integrity...and Respect..
Any comments???
'''''' just think... how much important information had been laid aside...discarded... destroyed..or laughingly ignored as it didn't fit in with the held opinions of the time.. or that it flagrantly contradicted the political .. or religious climate of the times..... we need to dust these off and lay them out ...and have another look... because as we all know... that truth is very much stranger than fiction!!!!
QUOTE(crystal sage @ Jun 14 2007, 01:20 AM) [snapback]1723376[/snapback]
because as we all know... that truth is very much stranger than fiction!!!!
anyone who claims that hasn't read anything by William S. Burroughs
QUOTE(Madcap @ Jun 12 2007, 09:11 PM) [snapback]1721054[/snapback]
From another topic, but still valid to this point: Lavelesh
Wiki
Crystalinks A Hindu Creation site that delves into the vimanas a bit.
For the actual texts
Now, back to the topic I said before, about a man who supposedly built one.
There was an entire topic on UM on this, which I feel I should note before going into this.
These are the links that were presented in that thread.
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Vimanas.htm
http://www.augustmystery.com/MysteryFiles/26flyinghigh.html
http://www.book-of-thoth.com/article_submi...an-vimanas.html
They said it was built with a mercury engine, so aztek provided this link:
http://rabi.phys.virginia.edu/HTW/page1.php?QNum=1118
Saard finished by e-mailing the newspaper that covered the story for verification, but was unable to get any due to not speaking Hindi.
That's all in the way of links I'm going to post right now. Later on tonight I'll poke around more and get some more solid information on Talpade (The scholar who supposedly built one.) These all make for interesting reads, however.
Wiki
Crystalinks A Hindu Creation site that delves into the vimanas a bit.
For the actual texts
Now, back to the topic I said before, about a man who supposedly built one.
There was an entire topic on UM on this, which I feel I should note before going into this.
These are the links that were presented in that thread.
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Vimanas.htm
http://www.augustmystery.com/MysteryFiles/26flyinghigh.html
http://www.book-of-thoth.com/article_submi...an-vimanas.html
They said it was built with a mercury engine, so aztek provided this link:
http://rabi.phys.virginia.edu/HTW/page1.php?QNum=1118
Saard finished by e-mailing the newspaper that covered the story for verification, but was unable to get any due to not speaking Hindi.
That's all in the way of links I'm going to post right now. Later on tonight I'll poke around more and get some more solid information on Talpade (The scholar who supposedly built one.) These all make for interesting reads, however.
Still can't speak hindi. Haven't really tried though.
I'll be following this thread with interest.
Not five minutes ago I was thinking about finding some weak excuse to ressurect the Shivkar thread, then I come across this. Spooky.
For new readers, the interesting thing about Shivkar's claims is that they may, possibly, be an example of verifiable, repeatable ancient advanced science, maybe.
The claim is that, based on science gained from elderly Sanscrit texts, Shivkar made a device that flew straight up, (limited use, I admit) on a beach in front of journalists and experts just over a hundred years ago. His texts sources were genuinely old, not recent ones based on a 'vision' some bloke had last Tuesday.
There are vast amounts of info to be found on ancient advanced technology (and this thread will attract it all). Unfortunately, most of it is horsesh*t and optimism. If Shivkar's story could be verified, then it would cut through the crap like an ancient flying machine through the stratosphere.
Alas, I haven't yet managed to confirm the story even appeared in the paper, partly due to my ignorance of Indian Dialects.
Help welcome.
QUOTE(Saard @ Jun 14 2007, 09:41 AM) [snapback]1724331[/snapback]
Still can't speak hindi. Haven't really tried though.
I'll be following this thread with interest.
Not five minutes ago I was thinking about finding some weak excuse to ressurect the Shivkar thread, then I come across this. Spooky.
For new readers, the interesting thing about Shivkar's claims is that they may, possibly, be an example of verifiable, repeatable ancient advanced science, maybe.
The claim is that, based on science gained from elderly Sanscrit texts, Shivkar made a device that flew straight up, (limited use, I admit) on a beach in front of journalists and experts just over a hundred years ago. His texts sources were genuinely old, not recent ones based on a 'vision' some bloke had last Tuesday.
There are vast amounts of info to be found on ancient advanced technology (and this thread will attract it all). Unfortunately, most of it is horsesh*t and optimism. If Shivkar's story could be verified, then it would cut through the crap like an ancient flying machine through the stratosphere.
Alas, I haven't yet managed to confirm the story even appeared in the paper, partly due to my ignorance of Indian Dialects.
Help welcome.
I'll be following this thread with interest.
Not five minutes ago I was thinking about finding some weak excuse to ressurect the Shivkar thread, then I come across this. Spooky.
For new readers, the interesting thing about Shivkar's claims is that they may, possibly, be an example of verifiable, repeatable ancient advanced science, maybe.
The claim is that, based on science gained from elderly Sanscrit texts, Shivkar made a device that flew straight up, (limited use, I admit) on a beach in front of journalists and experts just over a hundred years ago. His texts sources were genuinely old, not recent ones based on a 'vision' some bloke had last Tuesday.
There are vast amounts of info to be found on ancient advanced technology (and this thread will attract it all). Unfortunately, most of it is horsesh*t and optimism. If Shivkar's story could be verified, then it would cut through the crap like an ancient flying machine through the stratosphere.
Alas, I haven't yet managed to confirm the story even appeared in the paper, partly due to my ignorance of Indian Dialects.
Help welcome.
A few of my friends might speak Hindi. If you link me to the paper, perhaps we can get to the bottom of the claims. =)
http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/vs/vspref.htm
QUOTE
If you are looking for an ancient manuscript on this fascinating topic, you'll need to keep on looking. The Vymanika Shastra was first committed to writing between 1918 and 1923, and nobody is claiming that it came from some mysterious antique manuscript. The fact is, there are no manuscripts of this text prior to 1918, and nobody is claiming that there are. So on one level, this is not a hoax. You just have to buy into the assumption that 'channeling' works.
On the other hand, there is no exposition of the theory of aviation (let alone antigravity). In plain terms, the VS never directly explains how vimanas get up in the air. The text is top-heavy with long lists of often bizarre ingredients used to construct various subsystems. This includes items such as monkey skin, eagle bones, sea-foam, and many that are only named in Sanskrit. Often the recipes are a mix of plant, animal and mineral ingredients, and involve mixing these ingredients and cooking them at high temperature in a furnace shaped like an animal, such as a frog. One wonders whether we are talking about metallurgy here, or some kind of alchemy. Most of the systems are described as mechanical devices, powered by steam, electricity or even solar power; a number literally involve smoke and mirrors.
There is nothing here which Jules Verne couldn't have dreamed up, no mention of exotic elements or advanced construction techniques. The 1923 technical illustration based on the text (all of which are reproduced here), are absurdly un-aerodynamic. They look like brutalist wedding cakes, with minarets, huge ornithopter wings and dinky propellers. In other words, they look like typical early 20th century fantasy flying machines with an Indian twist. These illustrations do not (except in cross-section) resemble 'modern' UFOs. Nor do they look like ancient portrayals of vimanas, for that matter
On the other hand, there is no exposition of the theory of aviation (let alone antigravity). In plain terms, the VS never directly explains how vimanas get up in the air. The text is top-heavy with long lists of often bizarre ingredients used to construct various subsystems. This includes items such as monkey skin, eagle bones, sea-foam, and many that are only named in Sanskrit. Often the recipes are a mix of plant, animal and mineral ingredients, and involve mixing these ingredients and cooking them at high temperature in a furnace shaped like an animal, such as a frog. One wonders whether we are talking about metallurgy here, or some kind of alchemy. Most of the systems are described as mechanical devices, powered by steam, electricity or even solar power; a number literally involve smoke and mirrors.
There is nothing here which Jules Verne couldn't have dreamed up, no mention of exotic elements or advanced construction techniques. The 1923 technical illustration based on the text (all of which are reproduced here), are absurdly un-aerodynamic. They look like brutalist wedding cakes, with minarets, huge ornithopter wings and dinky propellers. In other words, they look like typical early 20th century fantasy flying machines with an Indian twist. These illustrations do not (except in cross-section) resemble 'modern' UFOs. Nor do they look like ancient portrayals of vimanas, for that matter
QUOTE(Emma_Acid_88 @ Jun 11 2007, 12:00 PM) [snapback]1718494[/snapback]
The Trojan war is still only myth. Discovering "potteries" isn't proof.
Myths like that, and Atlantis are stories based on real political and social situations and used as educational tools by the philosophers who wrote them.
Myths like that, and Atlantis are stories based on real political and social situations and used as educational tools by the philosophers who wrote them.
True.
But some culture, do use potteries and other things to "print on" to commemorative their current mass events. Especially the ones who don't have the means of reading and only could print images in these sorts of things. We still do it too eg stamps, postcards, coins etc.
The Okinawa Rossetta stone's petroglyphs look a little like rockets... flying ships... rockets...
How do I paste the photos here???
some interesting photos of the excavation site... http://www.opencoastravel.com/index.php?op...=view&id=19
How do I paste the photos here???
QUOTE
-- Okinawa, Japan --
http://www.morien-institute.org/imk5.html
The symbols on the 'Okinawan Rossetta stone' are most certainly intriguing, and there is bound to be much speculation in times to come about the meaning of the 'spiral symbols', which are something that is common in the petroglyphs of many ancient cultures. But there are also a number of symbols that have been found carved onto the rocks near what is now the sea-bed around Yonaguni-jima, and they could only have been done before the end of the last Ice Age when the sea-levels were low enough to allow access to the area when it was dry land ...
http://www.wonder-okinawa.jp/024/english/h...etta/index.html
Rosetta Stone in Okinawa space
The incised picture which can be regarded that they drew a ship, a Takakura and farming tools on a slate palette like a natural rock board, or the ones thought of as a sign or a character are minced. It is named the Rosetta Stone of Okinawa”
http://www.morien-institute.org/imk5.html
The symbols on the 'Okinawan Rossetta stone' are most certainly intriguing, and there is bound to be much speculation in times to come about the meaning of the 'spiral symbols', which are something that is common in the petroglyphs of many ancient cultures. But there are also a number of symbols that have been found carved onto the rocks near what is now the sea-bed around Yonaguni-jima, and they could only have been done before the end of the last Ice Age when the sea-levels were low enough to allow access to the area when it was dry land ...
http://www.wonder-okinawa.jp/024/english/h...etta/index.html
Rosetta Stone in Okinawa space
The incised picture which can be regarded that they drew a ship, a Takakura and farming tools on a slate palette like a natural rock board, or the ones thought of as a sign or a character are minced. It is named the Rosetta Stone of Okinawa”
some interesting photos of the excavation site... http://www.opencoastravel.com/index.php?op...=view&id=19
Thinking out loud:
I think that mythology and symbology arise from within and are a means to better understand ourselves. I think people get hung up on the personification to the point where they no longer see the fluid concepts, but instead make them rigid and inflexible.
Even assuming that the ancients did possess advanced technology, they did not live life the way we do. Nor were their thought processes the same. Therefore whatever they would have used the technology for would not have been the same.
Religious belief during those times was very much ingrained in every facet of life. The traditions we have today are a very shallow mirror to understand that way of living. So when I come across the dissecting of various myths, it is sometimes disappointing to me that we are unable to shed our modern thinking to "walk in another's shoes."
The real key I've found in delving into ancient religions is that mankind was once more in tune with its gifts of intuition beyond the five senses within our subconscious. I find this further confirmed when I read the Gnostic Gospels or other texts. I have spoken with others about these gifts and had them wave away these texts as nonsense. Yet our television screens blast images that are molded by psychologists and other experts to utilize the subconscious to manipulate us into being better consumers all the time, rather than getting us ourselves to utilize it on our own.
I know of many that believe our purpose here is to create advanced technological innovations and that we are at the peak of civilization. Yet I do not believe we are civilized. People are lonely and isolated, hiding out on the internet more than ever before to make a connection. This certainly wasn't a world envisioned by the ancients. And reading some of these texts makes one wonder what they would think of us and our aspirations.
More than anything, the one thing I have taken away from my journey is this:
And if this is truly reality as it stands, then why do so many seek an escape hatch to get away from it?
Our reality, with all its rules, is based on what we believe. What we accept as being real.
And that is the engima that keeps me going.
I think that mythology and symbology arise from within and are a means to better understand ourselves. I think people get hung up on the personification to the point where they no longer see the fluid concepts, but instead make them rigid and inflexible.
Even assuming that the ancients did possess advanced technology, they did not live life the way we do. Nor were their thought processes the same. Therefore whatever they would have used the technology for would not have been the same.
Religious belief during those times was very much ingrained in every facet of life. The traditions we have today are a very shallow mirror to understand that way of living. So when I come across the dissecting of various myths, it is sometimes disappointing to me that we are unable to shed our modern thinking to "walk in another's shoes."
The real key I've found in delving into ancient religions is that mankind was once more in tune with its gifts of intuition beyond the five senses within our subconscious. I find this further confirmed when I read the Gnostic Gospels or other texts. I have spoken with others about these gifts and had them wave away these texts as nonsense. Yet our television screens blast images that are molded by psychologists and other experts to utilize the subconscious to manipulate us into being better consumers all the time, rather than getting us ourselves to utilize it on our own.
I know of many that believe our purpose here is to create advanced technological innovations and that we are at the peak of civilization. Yet I do not believe we are civilized. People are lonely and isolated, hiding out on the internet more than ever before to make a connection. This certainly wasn't a world envisioned by the ancients. And reading some of these texts makes one wonder what they would think of us and our aspirations.
More than anything, the one thing I have taken away from my journey is this:
And if this is truly reality as it stands, then why do so many seek an escape hatch to get away from it?
Our reality, with all its rules, is based on what we believe. What we accept as being real.
And that is the engima that keeps me going.
QUOTE(crystal sage @ Jun 15 2007, 06:01 AM) [snapback]1725842[/snapback]
The Okinawa Rossetta stone's petroglyphs look a little like rockets... flying ships... rockets...
How do I paste the photos here???
some interesting photos of the excavation site... http://www.opencoastravel.com/index.php?op...=view&id=19
How do I paste the photos here???
some interesting photos of the excavation site... http://www.opencoastravel.com/index.php?op...=view&id=19
If you have the pictures stored in your computer use the attachment section below where you type in the reply section (hit the browse button to find where you stored it, then press the upload button).
If it's on the web, use the little button above the reply text box (it looks like a little picture) and enter the URL for the picture.
--Jaylemurph
QUOTE(apollyon @ Jun 15 2007, 01:19 AM) [snapback]1725609[/snapback]
Appolyon,
Great link. I'd not realized that Sacred-Texts had editorialized so much on th V.S.
I had other links about how this book was written, but this one is definately going in my "favorites" (right under the subfile "Indus.")
Harte
QUOTE(Madcap @ Jun 12 2007, 09:11 PM) [snapback]1721054[/snapback]
From another topic, but still valid to this point: Lavelesh
Wiki
Crystalinks A Hindu Creation site that delves into the vimanas a bit.
For the actual texts
Now, back to the topic I said before, about a man who supposedly built one.
There was an entire topic on UM on this, which I feel I should note before going into this.
These are the links that were presented in that thread.
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Vimanas.htm
http://www.augustmystery.com/MysteryFiles/26flyinghigh.html
http://www.book-of-thoth.com/article_submi...an-vimanas.html
They said it was built with a mercury engine, so aztek provided this link:
http://rabi.phys.virginia.edu/HTW/page1.php?QNum=1118
Saard finished by e-mailing the newspaper that covered the story for verification, but was unable to get any due to not speaking Hindi.
That's all in the way of links I'm going to post right now. Later on tonight I'll poke around more and get some more solid information on Talpade (The scholar who supposedly built one.) These all make for interesting reads, however.
Wiki
Crystalinks A Hindu Creation site that delves into the vimanas a bit.
For the actual texts
Now, back to the topic I said before, about a man who supposedly built one.
There was an entire topic on UM on this, which I feel I should note before going into this.
These are the links that were presented in that thread.
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Vimanas.htm
http://www.augustmystery.com/MysteryFiles/26flyinghigh.html
http://www.book-of-thoth.com/article_submi...an-vimanas.html
They said it was built with a mercury engine, so aztek provided this link:
http://rabi.phys.virginia.edu/HTW/page1.php?QNum=1118
Saard finished by e-mailing the newspaper that covered the story for verification, but was unable to get any due to not speaking Hindi.
That's all in the way of links I'm going to post right now. Later on tonight I'll poke around more and get some more solid information on Talpade (The scholar who supposedly built one.) These all make for interesting reads, however.
The Vymanika Shastra is a fascinating piece of work and is a tribute to man's imagination......however, I am an engineer by profession and having looked carefully at the illustrations I recognise an awful lot of victorian and very early 20th century technology. You can see steam pumps and engines all over the place and a very early DC electrical generator.
what about modern myths that our culture has created such as Star Wars you have the old wizard Obi Wan, the young hero Luke Skywalker, the princess Princess Leia, the swashbuckler Han Solo with sidekick. You can say that science fiction in general has many of the same archetypes that ancient myths have.
Sorry for getting off the subject.
Sorry for getting off the subject.
Wow thanks for all this new info! Its the first time I hear about ancient India!
My question is if the ancients hd this technology how did it die out? Why is there no remaining examples of this technology? We only have manuscripts and theories?
Has anyone done a timeline on all the ancients and seen how the correlate?
My question is if the ancients hd this technology how did it die out? Why is there no remaining examples of this technology? We only have manuscripts and theories?
Has anyone done a timeline on all the ancients and seen how the correlate?
Tannenisis,
Hello!
You go right on thinking out loud! That has probably been one of the more insightful things that I've read in a while.
Regards,
Mabon.
Hello!
You go right on thinking out loud! That has probably been one of the more insightful things that I've read in a while.
Regards,
Mabon.
QUOTE(Madcap @ Jun 15 2007, 03:47 AM) [snapback]1725322[/snapback]
A few of my friends might speak Hindi. If you link me to the paper, perhaps we can get to the bottom of the claims. =)
The paper was the Kesari newspaper of Pune. I think this is its website: http://www.dailykesari.com/
Hope your friends can find something.
QUOTE(Star_girl @ Jun , 11:32 PM)
Wow thanks for all this new info! Its the first time I hear about ancient India!
My question is if the ancients hd this technology how did it die out? Why is there no remaining examples of this technology? We only have manuscripts and theories?
Has anyone done a timeline on all the ancients and seen how the correlate?
My question is if the ancients hd this technology how did it die out? Why is there no remaining examples of this technology? We only have manuscripts and theories?
Has anyone done a timeline on all the ancients and seen how the correlate?
Actually by just watching the news the other day.... I got an idea of why we think that prehistoric man ..cave dwellers etc.. were so primitive until only about 7000 or so years ago..... and how it seems to contradict ideas of advanced civilizations of 15,000... to even 100,000 years or more...
The news discuss modern cave dwellers... the homeless..or those on the run... those suffering mental.. emotional disorders.. how they used rudimentary resources to survive... and anything they had of value once they died would be consequently shared by the other homeless..
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=269381
What evidence of their existence would be left for archaeologists of the future????
And the parallel civilizations???? Well as now they would have continually upgraded.... as fashion and technology advanced... recycled... the old and replaced it with the latest fashionable item.. gadget... buildings
What happened afterwards??? natural disasters... plagues... wars....
There would have been treasure hunters... archaeologists... in the past... squatters... or people salvaging to rebuild... or relocated to newer more impressive cities... all that would have been look at all the hundreds of old castles left in Europe... they would most likely have had surrounding villages to support them... greed ... politics... religious fevor...would have created many a war... resulting in severe damage to villages...... that could have necessitated rebuilds.... Look at modern history. .. with the threats of biological warefare... Like in the old days... where early settlers... who had reputedly offered the Indians plague infected blankets....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_hi...igenous_peoples
http://www.thefurtrapper.com/indian_smallpox.htm
I'm sure it wasn't a new idea... Hence early superstitions ...and customs of quarantines....
Then in the future... any attempts to resettle... could have resulted in the reemergence of these plagues... starting superstitions. ...about these sites . or usuing fire .. to cleanse villages... cities.... There are many reasons.... for civilizations to decline.... Most likely those who had the most attendants... the rich.. the scientists... would have had multiple contacts with possible infected people...
Just think if now whole cities were destroyed... and a few randoms escaped... would they be able to resurect the technology... have the knowledge... training to rebuild or utilize the machines... build computers.. etc.... as all those in charge ...the workers... the creators of this technology would have lived centrally...
Those few technicians.. scientists.. doctors... that were out of town... still would need additional support... the ability to aquire parts... ingredients... machinery.. fuels.. electricity... telecomunication technology....... all other relevant specialists to co create.. restore these technologies....
Could we do it???
Would we...
Would religious mania ( saying it was God's punishment for their decadence ..lifestyles).. there'd be fear... power struggles hindering the attempts????? Absolute Chaos... We saw the outcome of Katrina... with all our technology man power... what little was done??? It still isn't restored... imagine a larger disaster???
There'd be talk about the grand old days... passed down... with a few morals thrown in... that will eventually attain myth status.... till we got our act together again......
QUOTE (Tannenisis @ Jun 16 2007, 12:56 AM) 
Thinking out loud:
I think that mythology and symbology arise from within and are a means to better understand ourselves. I think people get hung up on the personification to the point where they no longer see the fluid concepts, but instead make them rigid and inflexible.
Even assuming that the ancients did possess advanced technology, they did not live life the way we do. Nor were their thought processes the same. Therefore whatever they would have used the technology for would not have been the same.
Religious belief during those times was very much ingrained in every facet of life. The traditions we have today are a very shallow mirror to understand that way of living. So when I come across the dissecting of various myths, it is sometimes disappointing to me that we are unable to shed our modern thinking to "walk in another's shoes."
The real key I've found in delving into ancient religions is that mankind was once more in tune with its gifts of intuition beyond the five senses within our subconscious. I find this further confirmed when I read the Gnostic Gospels or other texts. I have spoken with others about these gifts and had them wave away these texts as nonsense. Yet our television screens blast images that are molded by psychologists and other experts to utilize the subconscious to manipulate us into being better consumers all the time, rather than getting us ourselves to utilize it on our own.
I know of many that believe our purpose here is to create advanced technological innovations and that we are at the peak of civilization. Yet I do not believe we are civilized. People are lonely and isolated, hiding out on the internet more than ever before to make a connection. This certainly wasn't a world envisioned by the ancients. And reading some of these texts makes one wonder what they would think of us and our aspirations.
More than anything, the one thing I have taken away from my journey is this:
And if this is truly reality as it stands, then why do so many seek an escape hatch to get away from it?
Our reality, with all its rules, is based on what we believe. What we accept as being real.
And that is the engima that keeps me going.
I think that mythology and symbology arise from within and are a means to better understand ourselves. I think people get hung up on the personification to the point where they no longer see the fluid concepts, but instead make them rigid and inflexible.
Even assuming that the ancients did possess advanced technology, they did not live life the way we do. Nor were their thought processes the same. Therefore whatever they would have used the technology for would not have been the same.
Religious belief during those times was very much ingrained in every facet of life. The traditions we have today are a very shallow mirror to understand that way of living. So when I come across the dissecting of various myths, it is sometimes disappointing to me that we are unable to shed our modern thinking to "walk in another's shoes."
The real key I've found in delving into ancient religions is that mankind was once more in tune with its gifts of intuition beyond the five senses within our subconscious. I find this further confirmed when I read the Gnostic Gospels or other texts. I have spoken with others about these gifts and had them wave away these texts as nonsense. Yet our television screens blast images that are molded by psychologists and other experts to utilize the subconscious to manipulate us into being better consumers all the time, rather than getting us ourselves to utilize it on our own.
I know of many that believe our purpose here is to create advanced technological innovations and that we are at the peak of civilization. Yet I do not believe we are civilized. People are lonely and isolated, hiding out on the internet more than ever before to make a connection. This certainly wasn't a world envisioned by the ancients. And reading some of these texts makes one wonder what they would think of us and our aspirations.
More than anything, the one thing I have taken away from my journey is this:
And if this is truly reality as it stands, then why do so many seek an escape hatch to get away from it?
Our reality, with all its rules, is based on what we believe. What we accept as being real.
And that is the engima that keeps me going.
Awesome post!!
Really made me slow down at think about things from a different angle. Thanks!Avs
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.