Last time I checked, most people (that I know) who claim to be gangbangers also claim to go to church and believe in "getting saved." And as for problems with people who don't believe in God, you're forgetting the problems caused by people who believe in God (such as a few world leaders *cough* not mentioning names). And need we remember the Crusades? Almost every other war has religious roots. Religion isn't a bad thing. But when people want to kill eachother in the name of thier god, then it becomes another destructive force.


Sence you brought the soul and emotion arguement into this. A soul can be called the energy that makes us live, so to speak. Who is to say that animals don't have a soul of sorts, a life energy if you must? And humans aren't the only intelligent creatures. It has been proven that apes have a form of society. Wolves have thier hierarchy; doesn't that imply some sort of complex thinking to be able to recognize one wolf from another? And how we got electrical charges to signify specific emotions... evolution And in case you haven't noticed, there are psychological disorders where those same electrical signals don't work the same way. If God is infallible, then why would he create such imperfections?


A textbook on creationism done by an athiest? That's a conflict of interest. By Encarta's definition creationism is belief that God created the universe and everything in it. An atheist is someone who denies/doesn't believe in any higher power. They contradict each other. You can't believe that a higher power created us when you don't believe in a higher power.


This is actually not the thoery. There are two theories on how evolution works. Punctuated equilibrium and gradualism. Examples of both have been found in the fossil record.


Transmutated? no. But as capeo said earlier, transitional fossils have been found. Search for fossilized evidence of the evolution of whales. It's the one I can think of off the top of my head.

But anyway, back onto Mokele M'beme.... It's a nice tale, and something I'd like to believe in (a childhood fantasy of dragons), but logic says it's a misinterpretation of a known animal.

Honestly, I think the most extraordinary thing it could be is an elephant with a fat trunk. Most sightings also take place in thick bush and from a distance, and it would be very easy to mistake it.

In another "living dinos" thread, I suggested the possibilities that local militias might've gunned down this beast. If they're proven to be true.

Here is says that the mustard seed is the smallest. Given it says the smallest seed planted in the ground, but I am sure that the mustard seed is not the smallest garden seed. As you say it is a parable and not everything in the Bible is intended to be taken literally.



From Wikipedia. Note: It says the Majority, not everyone, accepts this thesis.

Wiki - Noah's Ark

Now, almost everyone is going to disagree on this statement. Clearly there was much written history in Egypt, Mesopotamia and China before The Old Testement. Most of which was supposed to have been written down by Moses, or latter leaders.

And, shouldn't you capitalize the name of Jesus?


Wiki - Noah's Ark

Wiki - Old Testement
Now given, these both say Most and you may not agree, but it is far and away the religious, scholarly and logical view accepted by society.


Back at you. Are you so sure that you are correct and everyone else is wrong? Could you not have misunderstood something? Could the person who taught this to you not be misunderstanding? History is full of people who misunderstood God and Jesus' messages, are you so sure you are not one of them?

Where do you get your information? This isn't correct in the least! Rhinos are PLAINS animals. Mokele M'bembe lives in SWAMPS! If you are going to criticise, at least get your information correct.

Rhinos spend a great deal of their life in the water. Kind of like a swamp.

Hahahaha, perhaps you should take a page out of your own book before getting carried away. Why didn't you check any of the links? They certainly do spend a great deal of time in the water. They have a metacarpal spread that allows walking in the softer earth - unike Suaropods that have arranged digits like a horse, which would push straight into mud stranding the creature. I have even offered pictures of the majestic beasts in this very environment! The Black Rhino counts rainforest as one of it's natural habitats. The Western Black was my best guess at a species, but this species appears to now be extinct. If we never find MM, I'd say this is why. Although they do not constantly inhabit waterways, it is an important way of cooling for the species and they spend much of their time this way. Almost the last megafauna left! Learn while you can, poachers are wiping them from the planet at an alarming rate.

White Rhinos like all species of rhino love wallowing in mudholes to cool down.
Piccy Wallowing in Mud.
Here is a great pic - Rhino in the Water - Is this Mokele?
Rhino Swimming
Aww, baby Rhino taking a dip.

Couple cool facts about Rhino's you may not have heard before

• The collective noun for a group of rhinoceros is "crash". (How appropriate!)
• Both African species and the Sumatran Rhinoceros have two horns, while the Indian and Javan Rhinoceros have a single horn.
• The plural can be rhinoceros, rhinoceri, rhinoceroses, or rhinoceroi (Hope this save future debates LOL)
• The extinct Woolly Rhinoceros of northern Europe and Asia was also a member of this tribe.
• The Javan Rhinoceros (Rhinoceros sondaicus) is one of the rarest and most endangered large mammals anywhere in the world. According to 2002 estimates, only about 60 remain.
• The Sumatran Rhinoceros (Dicerorhinus sumatrensis) is the smallest extant rhinoceros species
• Rhinocerotoids first diverged from other Perissodactyls in at least the Early Eocene.
• A popular theory of the origins of the name White Rhinoceros is a mistranslation from Afrikaans. The Afrikaans word "wyd" (derived from the Dutch word "wijd"), which means "wide", referred to the width of the Rhinoceros mouth. The Black Rhinoceros is so called to distinguish it from the White Rhinoceros.

There's some pics, don't believe me, check it with your own eyes.
It does sound bizzare at first, but it's true. They love a cooling swim as much as anyone. Enjoy the links !



Yo Cap- now da word is getting in me head alltimes.

Down with the Rhinos and Mokele in da Congo
Aint no Dino gonna come
no
Aint no Dino gonna come

i have more research under my belt on this one then you can shack a stick at. its one of my favorites. i know its real. the area in which it resides is protected by jungle and practicaly undisterbed.

Excellent.

Then you can fill us in on why the '07 Milt expedition was cancelled even though the fizzer '06 mission dubbed "information gathering on their return, and apprantley was in preperation for a large undertaking in January 2007.

What happened? Why no return? Did they find a Rhino in 2006? Why so quiet?

I am sure it is real, my guess is that it is a Rhinoceros.

You're 15 years old and you claim to have done enough "research" that you know beyond a reasonable doubt? What is it to this story that people find so believable?

And the congo is hardy undisturbed. Pygmie tribes have been there for thousands of years and the Europeans explored it from the 1800's to the 1900's. Even now there are those who have been studying the rainforest for decades.

When questioned about the existence of a suaropod like creature in the Congo known as the Mokele Mbembe, native tribes have on many occasions stressed that the animal is a spiritual being to the native culture, that is a creature that does not exist but is a legendary animal, a myth that is sacred to them. Large Rhino'sare sometimes called Mokele by the pygmie tribes and furthermore the idea that the Congo is a deep vast unexplored wilderness, whilst mostly true, is not entirely correct. Humans have been exploring that place for a long time now, so it is unlikely that any creature larger than a rhino, let alone a relict dinosaur could be hiding in there. In fact, the tottally unexplored areas of the Australian outback is more likely to be able to hold a prehistoric survivor! Also, paleontologists have now come to the theory that sauropods were unlikely to live in impenetrable jungle like that of the congo basin. On a similar note, the reports of the Mokele Mbembe commonly feature it jumping into water or swimming, which was a commonly believed misconception around the time that the first western reports were made, that sauropods lived mostly in water. It seems that the Mokele Mbembe is a creature born out of the tangled web of reports, lies, misconception and the truth, placed in the Congo by our imaginations and left there to excite the imaginations of others.

My verdict: False.

i think its most likely a rhino as well
a dino would be cool though
i'd like one for a pet
i wouldn't clean up after it though
that's what the neighbours yard is for

I wish I could believe it was a Dino, but I simply can't. Too much evidence against that theory.

The thing is that, more evidence that it is not a dino after all, rather than the evidence of a living dinos. You know, you can't put a mere statement into an evidence.

from wiki

What's Marcellin Agnagna up to these days ? Anyone know ?

If it does exist, then wouldn't we notice? its a bit big?
If so, there would be more than three or four? otherwise the specie wouldn't survive?

There would need to be a large amount of them to continue to survive, so you think something would have shown up by now. I just think they are misidentifying animals and other objects.

Yeah, thats my point. And they are fairly big animals. Surely someone would of got footage of one or something by now?


Oh, are they herbivorous or carnivorous? (dunno if I spelt them right) because either way, we would of noticed corpses or trees missing chunks out of it!

They are said to be herbivores yer they are reported to be around the size of an elephant, ...

we can only wonder

they would have certainly ended up somewhere as bushmeat
almost everything else does as some point

Part of the legend includes an account of a big game hunter and his bearers that saw a large reddish reptile eating a Rhino. I believe his account is in this, or another MM thread here. If it is an intelligent "dragon" of world-wide human belief, it is probably clever enough not to prey on humans in its own locale and lets them believe it is a benificient deity. Possibly all of the large reptilian cryptids are the same thing, and though they are frencuetly seen at a distance, the are able to elude every attempt to photograph or detect themu up close.

Okay, in order to survive, a species needs to be more than at least 5 creatures. Less than that, it's extinct, now, wouldn't 5 Mokele Mbembe would be easily visible?

i doubt this thing existing..........there needs to be an active breeding population with enough genetic diversity to be healthy...........unless they are invisible and can go to MC.Donald's without being spotted than forget about this thing being alive

Today in the Congo, the proud new owners of the first McDonalds in the area are still trying to find out who made off with 5,000 frozen patties, and 50 gallons of ketchup. The nighttime clean up boy, also missing, is the chief suspect.

Nonsense. If they were active only at night, there might be 50 of them there and you might never know it. Satellites would not find them either.l

Sattelite maybe not, but big game and poachers surely do.

According to one report, the big game hunter fainted in terror when he saw one eating a Rhino. Its main diet may actually be poachers, for they "won't be missed".

If the jungles and rainforests of the world are large enough to conceal lost cities(ankhor wat, macchu pichu) and tribes then i imagine the same would go for a herd of dinosaurs.

Hey, I like the idea! Let's breed more of them to eat those pesky poachers!

And I was like, "WTH!" I imagine meeting a huge guy saying; "Yay, I'm a big, mean poachers! But the sight of Mokele Mbembe scared me!"...man...

sorry, mokele is no dinosaur. its unlikely a new species. the mokele mbembes identity is... a rhino! sorry to crush your dreams. a rhino is still considered a monster in my book. most cryptids just might be freaks of nature of known species with mutulations

uh huh
clearly you havent read much on this subject.
when show pictures of dinos a while back, Many of the tribes people they asked all picked the same one. NO ONE seemed to pick a rhino outa the pictures, claiming thats what they saw. also, IMO i believe theyd know what a rhino looks like as well, and know its not mokele-mbembe (or the Large dino theyre apparently seeing)

Isn't amazing that after so many expeditions out there, there has been no evidence. Especially when these tribes say they are seen reguraly. I say hippo. I would love it to be a dino though.

give the tribe a camera and teach them how to use it.

i agree, who wouldnt want it to be a dino. unfortunaetly, it aint a dino. its most likely an aquatic rhino, or just a rare species of rhino

Here is some interesting links to look at

Its got photo evidence...

http://www.beckjord.com/cryptozoology/mokele.html

http://www.cryptozoology.com/forum/topic_v...&pid=421182

We seems to forget the factor of the possibilities that the drawing that was shown to the natives was done by bad artist or someone who can't draw real good...

Its a rhino

mokele mbembe is debunked

It is clearly still a crypto, until someone comes back from the Congo with a pic of a rhino coming up out the water. Till then it could still be anything. It is clear that something large lives in that swamp, as huge footprints in the mud have been well documented.

lol, theyd probably take a pic of themselves, and think its shooting lightening at them

Then they'll use it on a tribal warfare...which ended up very wacky as the tribes eventually goes for a better and better camera for the warfare purposes, and claimed that a succesfully taken picture of a person menas that the person will soon die or have his soul magically taken.

Anyway, the recent discovery made by palaeontologists suggest that sauropod should not live in swamps, due to their weight, the swamps might bog them down...for good.

I still say that millions of years is enough time for a sauropod to evolve a different foot structure. Is that is the only metric that is preventing it's existance?

After all, it was enough time for a mouse like animal to evolve into all mammals that are alive today, including kangaroos, elephants, mice, bats, whales and ant-eaters.

Not really, there are still, ecological niche problems, dietary adaptations, climate change, deforestation. illegal poaching, pollution, food chain, survival rate, and of course lack of evidence.

There is always that!

And nobody can't best that, my friend !

I watched a documentary in one of my science classes this semester in college, and they talked of Mokele-Mbembe. One theory they proposed is the giraffe.

The physiological properties of the giraffe fit the descriptions of the mokele-mbembe: long neck, muscular, large, etc. Giraffes aren't reptilian, but they can flip boats over. They ony thing is, they don't have three-toed tracks...unless it's a new species of giraffe.

Cool liked the stories and quite believed it although the Re'em sounds slightly far-fetched

Well, the big game hunter and his bearers described a "big reddish reptile" in the act of EATING a Rhino! And I bet in his occupation he'd know the difference. Apparently he though shooting at it would only have made it mad.