That theory has been challenged recently.

This Link to Dinodata has some good arguments for Sauropods being terrestial animals.

Got this off a site ( There weren't any celeocanth (spelling again... the prehistoric deep sea fishies) until one washed up on the beach in Japan ).....Maybe it wasnt caught alive,that i messed up on,but it was found there too!........also they said the Crocs and Sharks Did NOT evolve cause they were already perfect in every way,and they are still today claim the major studyers of this stuff.ANd i didnt get confused,you see the same crocodiles and sharkes in almost every dinosaur art pictures,even in coloring books,they lived with the dinosaurs and now they live with us in the exact same form.......words cant change the skeletons they found.

No, I'm sure you didn't get confused. But we are confused after reading your posts! Try put some links here and there that'll back you up, post some picture, maybe. Or at least, learn a proper grammar. I don't speak MArtian English so please, tidy up the lingo.

I just had an interesting thoery. Crocs, coelacanths, insects, sharks. All of these did survive whatever killed the dinosaurs. However, they are smaller than thier ancestors. Is it possible that a type of sauropod did survive and became smaller, like the size of a horse instead of a house. But then it wouldn't make Mokele-M'bembe "he who stops rivers" but "he who stops streams". Hmmm, maybe not the greatest theory.

"he who stops streams' doesn't sound too menacing. And I won't even waste my money on a flimsy animal, I'd rather fund it for biofuel from plants, the Mokele Mbembe died out, simply because there is absolutely no legal or physical proof it exist.

Mokele-M'bembe and Nessie actually have the same body shape, but in one area in must be a pleiosaur and in another it must be a Sauropod. The truth of the matter is that for 5,000 years people recorded seeing another long necked reptilian creature all over the world called a dragon. Its too bad the african explorers didn't show the natives a picture of a fantasy dragon. They would probably say YES. that's Mokele, M'membe ! and wouldn't that be embarrasing, for who would fund the search for a dragon?

Interesting about the title, "He who stops rivers" for this is what the dragon Yahweh does to the Jordan River, so his people can cross it and slaughter everyone in Jericho. Yep that's what it says, he blocks the river with his big dragon body, but they never tall that part in Sunday School.

There is absolutely no legal or physical proof God exists but 100's of millions will say other wise.

Haha! I knew I'm going to receive this kind of feedback! Yes it's true what you said, and I'm not planning on opposing it, since I myself can't provide you any proof. But it's about religion and believe. I BELIEVED God exist, rather than believing the existance of Mokele Mbembe. It's about choice, you may disagree with me, please do. As much as I won't believe in Mokele Mbembe. I just have no reason to believe it until there's a solid evidence that Mokele Mbembe exist...maybe then I started to believe.

Getting boring isn't it, LOL, same response everytime someone asks for proof. No need to ask who is a devout (and pushy) athiest here is there. Gawsh, nearly as bad as the whackjobs that come in here and ram Bible verses down your throat as though current proven discoveries hey. Just opposite ends of the stick.
There is proof Jesus of Nazareth existed (classified as part of the trinity, so therefore by Christian definition God), Pontious Pilot existed. Judas Iscariot killed Jesus, he existed. Matthew the Evangelist existed. All characters from a supposedly made up book, yet so many of the characters did in fact exist. Their births and deaths are recorded and we have archaeological evidence for ancient crucifixion. They were people just like you and I. This is all legal and physical proof.
As such, this puts some weight to the possibility the Bible may have some fact in it. Just what is fact and what is a very complex form of Chinese whispers is where things get muddy. I feel the book is meant as a set of guidelines to live happily by, not a historical depiction. Creationism claptrap is enough to put the whole ideal into doubt and with the nutjob realm. Yet nobody seem to pick on the real nutjobs like Scientologists. (e.g Scientologists believe in Xemu, yet much evidence exists to discredit the entire ridiculous ideal).
However, not even this much evidence exists to support Lake or Sea Monsters. To date, the most famous of evidence has been proven as a hoax. No concurring fossil record exists, no reliable footage exists, no bones, carrion, nothing but some stories from people who have something to gain from such a story. The only "verified" Lake Monster to date is the Ho Kiem turtle. People have indeed been seeing them for many years true, but what have they been seeing? Verified reports include misidentified animals, tree trunks, schools of fish, birds even simple wakes. It seems that they have been misidentified. Sure, stories go back Centuries, just like Mermaids, Elves and The Kraken. None of those exist, nor did they ever.
People believe in a diety because it gives them comfort, closure and helps them get on in life generally. Some peole lack self confidence, this is the reason people grasp onto religion and tend to "find God" in their hour of need. Lake mosters just can't offer the same comfort. The two are as alike as chalk and cheese and do not deserve side by side comparison.
Capeo, I'm with you on this one brother I believe Mokele is a Rhino, if we can find out what happened to the 07 Milt expedition to find the creature wth the support of the prelim fizzer of Jan 06, we may find out some more about this particular beastie. Obviously Loren does not read this forum, and we have no Cryptomundo member's here either, which is fair enough, this is a far superior forum. so I guess we won't find out why the mission did not go ahead to finally solve this mystery..........

or did it...come on you conspiracy nuts, I know you are lurking.......

I believe that there could be some kind of sauropod looking creature still in the congo. A sauropod could evolve into a smaller size in very little time. There are examples of large cretures evolving into a smaller form and living well past when their larger cousins became extinct. Look at pygmy mammoths for example.

http://www.inklingmagazine.com/articles/th...-pygmy-animals/

The changes that allowed for a pygmy mammoth probably took place over only several thousand years. A sauropod dinosaur would have a hundred times longer to adapt. That the majority of ancient sauropods were land dewelling means nothing. The ancesters of modern whales walked on land much more recently.

I hope that more expeditions go in search of this creature and prove if it is a rhino, elephant, hippo or what ever.

I'm not a Cryptomundo member, but I do lurk there now and then. It is good for a laugh and an occational nugget of interesting info.

Fine! Although it's prohibited by my religion, I'll be sinnin' now, I'll bet a lifetime for $5, this Mokele Mbembe is NOT a sauropod. I'll wait as long as it takes to prove me wrong!

Is such a safe bet still sinning? I think you will get off on this one with a technicality

Small dinosaurs existed too, but were also wiped out - consider the Microraptor that was found in China. It is about 16 inches (40 cm long)
Also,
Compsognathus, a theropod (meat-eater) 2 feet (60 cm) long, from 145 million years ago. It was the size of a chicken and weighed about 6.5 pounds (3 kg).
And
Saltopus - a 2 feet (60 cm) long insectivore (insect-eater) from about 200 million years ago.
Lesothosaurus - a 3 feet (90 cm) long, fast running, plant-eater from Africa, 200 million years ago.
And
Wannanosaurus - a 39 inches (1 m) pachycephalosaur, a plant-eater from China, 83-73 million years ago.
These examples shadow Mussaurus (meaning "mouse lizard") is the smallest complete dinosaur skeleton found, but it is from a hatchling (a baby). It was only 16 inches long (37 cm).
Other small dinosuars include Micropachycephalosaurus, Microcephale, Nanosaurus, Gasparinisaura, Sinosauropteryx, Procompsognathus, Yandangornis, and- how cute Bambiraptor. When will we find Thumper Rex I wonder ROFL.
The terrain does not uit Sauropod anatomy - The feet of all known sauropods had vertically arranged digits, which distribute weight through the leg column, likke that of a horse, therefore making it difficult to walk in sinking terrain. In addition, it is not the remote "lost Island" people imagine it to be, Europeans explored the rainforest extensively in search of valuable exportable resources during the late 1800s and early 1900s and modern scientists have been closely studying the rainforest for decades. Some better evidence would be available if a Sauropod was bashing through the forest daily, in addition, a rainforest is in fact the least likely environment for such an animal to remain hidden for 65 million years.

Does the terrain suit a rhinoceros then? Could a river going rhino sub-species hide in this rainforest? I heard/read this thing spends a lot of time in the water. Maybe the feet of the rhino sub-species have adapted to a more aquatic environment. But... a sauropod like dinosaur could not evolve that way... right? (sarcasm) Do only mammals hold the trump card of rapid evolution?

Wars were fought all over south east Asia and still small and a few larger new animal species are found there every decade.

I concede that a breeding population of 200+ creatures should have been found by now, but what if this is a creature that is on the edge of dying out? Maybe only a couple dozen of them left.

Yes, they have a metacarpal spread like that of an elephant specifically for this terrain. It shares the weight more evenly, not pushes straight down and into soft ground like a high heel.
Nothing to do with evolution into todays world The ancestors of Elephants (Stegandons, Mastadons) also had a metacarpal spread.
I offered today's horse as an example - it's a mammal isn't it (sarcasm)

Were any of those animals found in the war zone? I'd reckon they may have been in moutainous regions? Not well traversed pathways where search parties seek to plunder natural resources? Also, the Amazon is studied by scientists, people who would know a new species. Soldiers may have eaten unknown species on occasion completely oblivious to the fact the were consuming a discovery!!

Ahh, good points. Did not know too much about rhino toes. I guess we'll have to wait and see if anything turns up in the next couple years.

If I was a single guy, 10 years younger and rich, I'd fly over and hire up some guides and go looking. But, I'm married, 38 and not rich.

Why would believing in God OR Mokele Mbembe be exclusionary as you seem to suggest?. On the contrary, if what is written in the Bible is essentially "true", taking into consideration ancient man's misunderstanding of their natural world, as well as stories changing when told as oral tradtition before the Bible was written down, then MM, Nessie, and similar long necked reptiles are heavenly creatures known as Seraphim, also called "dragons".


If the Congo natives were shown were shown a picture of the long necked Seraphim-dragons depicted on the Sacred Menorah from the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, they would say that is Mokele Mbembe, plain and simple, for these supernatural creatues have the outline of MM just as they do Nessie. These dragons were firmly believed in by virtually every human culture since the dawn of recorded history and before and people still do today. Only now, they are comforted by calling them "scientific" names like "Sauropod" and "Plesiosaur" because they think they are too intelligent to believe there was an intlligence behind the creation of the universe, and they are the result of an accidental mixture of the right chemicals at the right temperatures.

Nessie will continue to be seen no matter how many scientists claim the loch cannot support such creatures becasue Nessie is not a normal creature. And the same applies to MM and other unexplained lake and sea monsters. And no one is going to show the Congo Natives a picture of a Biblical dragon, and have them say it looks more like Mokele Mbembe, than their "more scientific" sauropod picture, because they don't want their own faith of "non belief" challenged.

There are many brilliant scientists who believe in the God of the Bible. But a belief in that God does not mean accepting such fundamental silliness of a world wide flood, and an earth only 6,000 years old. Virtually every human culutre believed in long necked reptilian creatures that were more intelligent than themselves. That's why Nessie, MM and the rest will continue to be seen, but never captured. They have superior abilitities and are smarter than the humans hunting them.

Which country are you talking about actually? Coz as far as I can remember, I never experienced war in my life, and yes, I'm from Southeast Asia. And just like Psyche said, those animals were discovered in times of peace. Hhh....

Anyway DC, somehow I don't believe in dragon. I know maybe in Bible they were repeatedly stated or so (I obviously don't read the Bible...well, much), but still, I just don't buy your thoughts no matter how much I greatly respect your knowledge on dragons.

I was just thinking, what if there where once many of these things scattered throughout the world (I mean during mankinds existance) Is it possible that THESE are dragons?

It is intriguing that all of the reports of dinosaurs involve the long-necked ones: sauropods and plecisaurs.

Its because they are actually dragons. Everyone knows Dinosaurs went extinct 65 MYA.

[u]


That is what I feel is the strongest probability

Actuallly, they're not.

Emele Notuku (think thats the spelling) is suspected to be a Ceretopsian, and reports from PNG describe Hadrosaurs, particularly Parasaurolophus. Ropens and Kongomato are allegedly Pterosaurs and I even saw an alleged picture of a T Rex on one creationist site, the site escapes me, but I did follow a link from here originally to get there. It looked like a guy in a parker, and I laughed heartily at it, but what I find far more interesting is that people only see known Dinosaurs We have ony discovered a small percentage of the life that abounded during the reign of the dinosaurs. Why did'nt any make it past the KT event that we have not discovered the fossil record of?

I can't wait until someone spots the Harry Potter Dinosaur, Dracorex Hogwartsia. hehe.

I think most of the reports of were crocodiles, they can exceed 20 ft (6 m) and are known to come on land often. Most of the areas where the Mokele-Mbembe was spotted was in swamps or near water.

I was mainly refering to Vietnam and the nearby countries that were affected back in the early 1970s. Indonesia is not without a violent past and present however.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_National_Revolution
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/asiapcf/9904/18/i...ia.violence.02/
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/266.htm

Indonesia is a huge place however and most of the country is very safe for everyone. I'm not trying to put down your homeland.

A lot of the new species discovered in Vietnam were dicovered, by people who knew what to look for, visiting the meat markets. The locals knew these animals were there and hunted them. It was just that they are new to everyone else. The creature in the Congo is supposed to be really large and so probably will not be found in this manner, but the locals do know of it and what it is supposed to look like. We just need to wait.

Also, I don't believe it to be a Dragon either, what possible reason would an "angelic dragon" have for mucking about in a rainforest in Africa?

Like the angels in the Old Testament, they are flesh and blood creatures who still must eat, and go to remote places to hunt, becasue they are not allowed to be seen in the modern age, though it didn't matter in ancient and medieval times, hence so many sightings back then.

Apparently its as big as a jaguar. It's claws are as big as cups. It has four ears, two are for listening and two are sort of back-up ears. Some of the ears are on the inside of its head. It has a retractable leg to leap up at you better. Its tail is made of magnets, so if you're made of metal it can attach itself to you. It lights up at night. For some reason it has a tremendous fear of stamps. It only has eyebrows on Saturdays. Its yawn sounds like Liam Neeson chasing a load of hens around inside a barrel. Instead of a mouth it has four arses.
It lives on the moors of Craggy Island, or at least the place where there should be moors. Many of the locals think it might be a kind of giant fox.

Sorry man, you just did. We were supposed to talk about Mokele Mbembe, far in Africa and not about my country. I know what happened at I WAS RIGHT THERE AT THE RIOT AND CURRENTLY ARE TRYING TO WIPE THE MEMORY AWAY now if you want to know. But put aside all that, let's continue talking about Mokele Mebembe, shall we?
Say, in your opinion, what do you think this survivng sauropod, if it does exist, will have it's diet on?
You know, you have to eat something to survive...

Accordint to the naitives, it's diet consists mainly of the local Malombo plant.

Hmm.......................... I wouldn't be surprised. Sounds convincing

yeah, im convinced. It was the stamp phobia that sealed it for me

Woah, did you ever got licked by the beast, then?

You do realize that this is posting knowingly false information and that that is against the rules don't you?

That's what IT wants them to believe...........

I have it on a reliable source (I accidently erased the link, but it was totally reliable) that it actually IS Liam Neeson chasing chickens in a barrel...

If the natives know so much and see it so often, why hasn't it been filmed? Because we can see rhinos, crocs, and elephants, at the zoo. There are plenty of tribes that identify it as these animals. Does anyone really think a 70 foot sauropod could hide anywhere? They are not like snakes, they are long, tall, and thick.

...and trample on anythign they see. Perhaps this is why there's never been a footage of one? YOu know, kinda when you realize it was there...Boom!! You've got stamped.

well if there are living sauropods then there must be theropods. Wonder if a troodon can make a good pet

There must? Explain this logic.

I'm sure there's neither, though.

Surviving sauropods, dinosaurs, beasties from bygone eras, all explainable as super natural creatures created to aid a deity and to watch over mankind.

Kinda convenient, isn't it? The theory allows for lack of physical evidence, lack of finding anything at all, actually, because the super intelligent dragon can simply will it otherwise.

I do apologise. The topic is Mokole Mmbembe, is it not? A surviving sauropod in the Congo. I was watching the Discovery channel last week, it noted that dinosaurs, because they were uncontested as the apex of the food chain, lived longer then previously thought, hundreds of years was a distinct possibility.
Is there a reliable way of measuring sauropod longevity? I think I read somewhere that most crocodilians and tortoises get larger as they age, as do some shark species. I will also note that my knowledge of the differences between crocs and saurian life expectancy has holes you could drive a....well, a Mokole Mbembe through.

All reptiles and fish never stop growing. But the rate slows greatly as adults.

My point with this is that if one type of dinosaur survived then others must've survived as well. Though when most people think of a dinosaur they think of something huge but most were small

It's not really required however, that if one survived others did. There's nothing that really indicates that it's a dinosaur anyway. But people like the thought of a surviving dinosaur (either because it's exotic and dinosaurs are seen as cool, or it's because they're wacky creationists out to prove evolution wrong and that "god" spared some dinosaurs). Even Mackal rejected that eventually and started raving about giant 20 foot iguanas.

a 20 ft iguana could be neat too. though where would you keep it?

Speaking of Troodons, there is this lake in Ireland called Sraheens Loch (or is it Lough?) where supposedly there is this animal that some say look like a Troodon lurking in a massive rhododendron forest. Altough I seem to recall one encounter speaking of something that looked more like a Stegosaurus. Some stories speak of it swimming and apparently behaving strangely aquatically adapt for a little carnivorous dinosaur. Don't believe in it though, I read about it in Sundberg's book and I don't trust that wicked occultist for five cent, I bet the made half the stuff up and exaggerated the other half.

most likely he exaggerated alot becouse it probably wouldn't sale has good if he didn't but there maybe something there

what... ?


Extant sauropods. That's an interesting one. Why is it always sauropods though? Considering they were on the way out by the middle of the Cretaceous?

^Yeah, why always saurupod? Why not a Pachyrinosaurs type or a duckbill type?^Yeah, why always sauropod? Why not a Pachyrinosaurs type or a duckbill type? Heck, why always look for sauroPOD when we already got iPOD?

I have no idea why, but I laughed at that. Ugh. My humour must be getting cornier. Damn you. D: <.<

Cause our in the wrong place!! You need to go to PNG fpr a Parasaurolophus. In Africa Emele Notuku is supposed to be a ceretopsian

Gawsh, don't you know your extant dinosaurs ??
There is ropens too!! Kongamato and people in parkas.
Hehe

That odd fellow who went "ropen searching" said they were dimorphodons, didn't he?