i'm at school, at interval/recess, and some boys had just had a talk about christianity. they had got a small bible. they ripped it up and threw it around the playground. i'm not religious but i think that is sick. there are christian kids at my school. i would be offended if i were them. any thoughts?

disrespect is a matter of opinion. If its the whole absolute truth we are seeking then i think there are several books that are misleading its a waste of paper. If you object to logging try using plastic toilet paper.

if there are any christians reading this topic could you say if you would find it offencive. not particularly christians,,,,,,,anyone!

Why should we respect a harmful delusion?

Were they kicking the book around just because it was there or specifically because it was the Bible?

If they were doing it because of it being the bible, then I do find it disrespectful. I'm not a christian, in fact I'm agnostic, but I do respect other people's rights to follow a belief system if they so wish. Therefore I would not destroy or damage another person's holy book or place of worship. For example, I visited a monastery and followed the monk's wishes to cover up my shoulders as I respected their beliefs even though I didn't believe in them myself.

If they were just kicking the book around becuse they hadn't got anything to play with and just found "a book", then ignorance is bliss!

They are the result of their parenting. People that will rip up a bible, and disrespect the christians to whom it means everything, intend to send a message they would do the same to christians, if but allowed. I'm amazed there is nothing in your post about staff, or a teacher, seeing this and taking the appropriate action to discipline such ignorance.

Had I been there, I'd have caught up the pages and recycled them, if nothing else. Sounds silly perhaps. Maybe even trite. However, I think there's a way to turn around what hate gives life, and that's what comes to mind on this occasion. If you are christian it is unfortunate you were sent the message these children intended to get across. But know this. Jesus said the kingdom of heaven lives inside you. And nobody, can touch that! Instead, pray for them. Because they're showing you they desperately need someone to care, since they didn't have that sense of compassion and love at home. Else they wouldn't think hate, is best exercised, ripping up the holy book of those that scare them enough that they think by doing that, they scare right back.

And if you are not a christian, it really doesn't matter. Because what these children showed you, is what hate looks like when it can get it's hands on something it can destroy. Now imagine what's eating them alive inside. That they can not reach, but only let out, on anything they can find. Be careful, in light of that.

I wish you peace,
GW

Children are as hateful as anyone else. God apparently thought so too. I don't recall the actual verse now, but in one part of the Bible some children begin to insult and torment a prophet, and God sends large bears to devour them! Granted, you don't generally hear that one in Sunday School, but it is in the Bible.

But the Christian clergy is no better than those playground children. As long as there have been Christians, THEY have been burning the religious books of other faiths. Even today they go as far as burning even Children's stories, and I do not doubt some will burn my next book....

I agree with both DC and GW. It is easy to see where that sort of anger comes from. History is replete with book burning so forth and so on. And who knows what is happening to these youngsters at home, behind closed doors. Maybe they have an overzealous religious parent or some such. I am intimately familiar with this scenario. And let's also not forget they are also just that--youngsters. Sometimes you do stupid things in the immaturity and ignorance of youth. Acting out against authority is very normal.

Sean

hay!

of course people would be offended even if they don't show it. cos it is disrespectful and heartbreaking for believers.
why not just read it if you're curious and leave it if you're not satisfied.
why insult instead of respect?

i am not Christian but this answer would be mine anyway.

so, he did it to have some attention.
ehh maybe he doesnot have good stories to tell

They didn't beat him up, so that kid got off better than I did in school.

Bible or no, it should have offended you the way they were treating him.

Hi there

Thanks for your concern. Im a Christian and Im not offended, but I would be concerned for these kids involved.

Jesus said that we should treat others the way we would like to be treated (Matthew 7:12). Burning something that is precious to others is not a very nice way to treat others.

Jesus also said that one day every person would be called to account for what they have done (Matthew 12:36). I hope these kids learn to treat others with more respect and also to think of the bigger picture.

God Bless You

Hi there!



Actually you do hear that one in Sunday school and you hear it accurately. In 2 Kings CH 2 God does not send any bears. Have a read of it for yourself.



Well no Christian would burn anyone else's property.

The bible says:

Galatians 6:10 NIV
Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Doing good to all people does not involve persecuting anyone!

God Bless You.

No, I do not find it offensive. It still is the number one selling book in the world, so there are plenty of them. What is interesting is that it causes such reaction in some as opposed to others. Religion and politics causes much heated debate in the world for various reasons, so do not allow these things to offend you, just choose wisely where and when to have such debates.

If they were tearing the pages specifically because it was the bible, I would be offended. But, if they were tearing it b/c they had nothing better to do, maybe not.
Either way, I'm the type to walk up to them and say something, just b/c I would have felt better for myself rather than not saying anything at all.. Not that it would have changed anything, but for the fact that I would have felt some what better.. that's just me.

What scripture again?
& Children can be even more cruel than anyone else..

I don't really think this is necessarily disrepectful to the Christian people as much as it was to whomever they were tormenting. I'm sure that they were trying to "push the buttons" of another child who was religious and this was extremely disrepectful to him because of their intent. As Dr. Cox phrased on Scrubs: "People are just b*stard covered b*stards with b*stard filling". Nuff said

I believe he is referring to Elisha's calling a curse upon children, for making fun of the bald head god gave him.



2 Kings, 2:23-24.
23: And he (Elisha) went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24: And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

I guess the little children had just come forth out of a bear cave after tormenting some cubs... they sound like that type

What does that mean exactly?
(I can't see it feasible that two bears ate forty two children..)

In the context! Of the passage, it says nothing about the children coming out of a bear cave,having tormented cubs. Besides, if one knows anything about she bears, the kids would have never lived to make fun of Elisha's bald pate, had they come near a mama bears cubs. One of the most dangerous animals alive, is a she bear with babies.


Elisha called the bear to kill the children because he was insecure, vane and prideful. He called the bear as a curse upon the children because god imbued him with the power to do so, because he could. But it's all part of the plan within the domain of omniscience. So then, it can not truly be a curse. But rather part of gods plan, being omniscient and all knowing, of Elisha, that he empowered as able to call the bear upon the children.

I think the passage imparts the old adage. Absolute power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

It does indeed mean 42 children. A bear can do an incredible amount of damage. A grizzly, for instance, can literally swipe her paw and decapitate a grown man. And one must remember, this bear was no ordinary bear. It was called by Elisha to effect his curse upon the children tormenting him about his bald head. So the bear would then be imbued with extraordinary powers, so as to effect the curse at Elisha's will.

I believe I saw it posted here on UM about a year ago, but somebody has written a lavishly illustrated, "Bible Story Book" that contained all of the most horrible examples of "God's inhumanity to man" recorded in the Bible. The bear vs. kids episode was quite graphic.

BTW I may have an artist who wants to do my book in a series of illustrated graphic novels!

That there was enough material to comprise a book, speaks for itself. A book within a book, as it were.

Excellent! Congratulations! I wish you every good fortune as you continue to pursue this project.

I find it sad.

it's a book. good , bad or indifferent. fact or fiction.

just curious - would you have been offended if it were the quran ?

GW, you beat me to it. Yes, it does:

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)




Not so. Christian groups have been burning Harry Potter books etc.

The following is a spoof from Landover Baptist. Funny!

Book Burning: A True Christian® Tradition
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1002/bookburning.html

Sean

I understand the power of a grizzly, we can't touch its predatory capabilities... I 've spent a good deal of my time researching bears (especially the grizzly).. I find them very fascinating animals... (I have some rather interesting very rare grizzly pics somewhere on a blog I kept thru this research)..

back to the passage..

Cursing the kids using the bears is stated without question. I don't see the death of 42 children as a result of the two bears under this curse. I see a curse such as traumatization from the bears in attempt to attack the kids..maybe one bear chewed an arm off and the others watched and developed PTSD from the ordeal.. (the curse). I mean that is more of a reasonable assumption by what's given. It never says the bears ate these kids, not even one death does it mention.
I'm sure those kids wished they hadn't of made from of the balding old man, regardless..

Hi S. The passage is quite explicit as to the fate of the children--ripped to pieces by two bears.

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

Of course, this is just a story and should be read as such. Never happened IMHO.

Sean

tare
1 /tɛər/ –noun
1. any of various vetches, esp. Vicia sativa.
2. the seed of a vetch.
3. Bible. a noxious weed, probably the darnel.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tare

So 2 bears came out and covered them with weeds.

Edit: 2 *Lesbian* bears I guess

D'OH! Wrong word C! It's "tear" ...

tear2 [tair] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, tore or (Archaic) tare, torn or (Archaic) tare, tear·ing; noun
verb (used with object)
1. to pull apart or in pieces by force, esp. so as to leave ragged or irregular edges.
2. to pull or snatch violently; wrench away with force: to tear wrappings from a package; to tear a book from someone's hands.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tear

Or are thou just being sillyeth?

Sean

With your experience with Grizzly, or what you know of them, does it strike you that Grizzly could "tare" , as the Kings passage says, 42 children and they'd be ok!? Do bears that can weigh, (females) as much as 250 lbs, in the case of black bear, or up to 600 pounds, as in brown bear, strike you as something that wouldn't harm children, in an encounter described as such in the book of 2nd Kings!? If a bear, with paws that can range from as much as 7 to 9 inches in length and 5-6 inches wide, not to mention the claw length, "tares" children, is it a harmless thing. And why would Elisha call the bears onto the children, if but to scare them when the passage says the bear tore the children!? Perhaps it doesn't need to say the children were killed, because bear attacking children, being omnivores, is a given that their prey dies. Especially if they are sent as weapons to effect a curse upon the children that made Elisha mad, for teasing him about his bald head.

If he intended to scare them would it not say the two she bears scared the children!? Rather than that the 2 she bears tore the children?! Does one imagine she bears, as big as they would be in comparison to children, could "tare" children and not effect mortal damage!?

Edit to add: Brown/Grizzly Bear Facts

I guess what it boils down to is what you alluded to in your topic title. Respect is the issue. I'm a Christian, and being one, I would not disrespect the Quran or any other book that was revered by another. Human respect is the issue. There was none here. You don't have to be a believer to respect another's beliefs, just a decent human being.

I find that their behavior in general is disrepectful, no matter what the book was or contained. the fact that they would shread a book out of meanness makes one wonder what other kinda disruptive things the children will get into next...rather it be out of attention or just flat out mean with no concern..the act of them ripping the book apart is wrong.

I agree it doesn't matter what the book is it's wrong to destroy a book and litter the play ground with it. They are just little criminals who need a swift kick in the a**.

Ripping up any book is a sign of disrepect to the ideas represented in it (Look at farenheit 451 for the significance of books) It is even more disrespectful if the book contains a philosophy or belief system.

We need to learn tolerance of most belief systems, which includes respecting others right to believe them, even when we do not accept the ideas themselves.

I once possessed about 10,000 books, but lost them all when our house burned down. My wife is now discouraging me from filling our new place up with books which will only be read once then left on a shelf, but i love having all those worlds, stories and ideas all around me. Perhaps the web is starting to replace the concept of physical book collections?

I have a huge library myself. I love books. The web is certainly making an impact on book sales, I'd say. Prosperos Books recently made news, when it's owner lost his mind (Personal opinion) and decided to protest the net overcoming what he saw as the retail bookshop markets, by burning his inventory! In protest!

Books Burn to Protest Decline in Reading

A little off topic, but to the person who started this post said you were not religious but your little thing says the Bible is the basic instructions before leaving earth? Just curious lol

I agree with you GW. I have my own library. not big , alot of reference ( art , various religious , 4 versions of the bible and 1 quran ,, lots of classics ) we have become a nation that doesn't read anymore but skims. cherry picks.

newspaper sales are down . libraries are closing. so are museums. very sad.

right now I'm in the middle (again) of Tennyson's Idylls of the King. I love even holding the book. It's gilded with inlays. like butter in your hands. It's beautiful. and of course pure poetry.

Somehow I am not surprised that in your Sunday School they do not tell whats in the actual Bible, like bears being sent to kill 42 children.. That's also why the fiery flying serpents that surround the throne of God in Isaiah have been turned into beautiful swan winged "cartoon" angels stolen from Pagan classical mythology. Mainstream Christianity has created their own "comfortable, politically correct, mythology" that differs considerably from what the Bible really says. And they get very beligerant when the truth is pointed out to them.

I didn't say the Christians broke into homes to burn other peoples books. In the past, yes, but today no.

Now they buy the books, and burn them in their book burning rallys. And this is a fact.

Early Christians, when in power, ransacked and destroyed the temples of other religions, fully documented.

update


i just go news that 2 of them have been called to the principals office to talk about an "incident". haha.

Childish and stupid...almost as bad as what I did to a Bible when I was younger. They're simply lashing out...a good caning'll sort em out. Do they do that at your school? "Palms out gents!"

your right, Our children no longer know how to look something up in books, to find what they are looking for..my children have a library suited to they age and reading limits . books are of great importance our children need to learn how to use them . we need to teach them to be less dependent on the internet and pick a book up and read it..