Hello everyone.

Well, this is probably going to open a whole 'can of worms', both for and against, but I woke up at 1am this morning with a strange notion in my head that wouldn't go away; where it came from I have no idea. Probably down to recent events in the news, notably the Madeleine McCann disappearance.

(Forgive me if I ramble here)

Anyway, I woke up with the idea: what If we were tagged at birth; that is, maybe electronically, via implant or the like. Surely technology these days would allow us to do this in a painless, non-scarring way?

Why I thought of this I have no idea - perhaps, thinking about young Madeleine, this made me wonder what would have happened if she were maybe 'tagged', and that somehow she could have been tracked via satellite, etc. A kind of GPS for the human body, if you will. She could have been located within hours, minutes even.

This got me thinking about other benefits of course. Apart from the numerous abductees and 'missing persons' who could maybe be located, again within a short time span, we could recapture escaped prisoners 'on-the-run', etc. Of course, at 1am this morning I dreamed up a whole load of other benefits as well but, alas, I've been asleep and to work since then, and can't remember half of them! I'm sure others can think of a fair few though...

However, of course, as with anything there would be drawbacks; disadvantages, etc. And it may well be that the drawbacks far outweigh the advantages: Would this be an example of the ultimate 'Big Brother'? Orwell's 1984 alive and kicking? The flick of a switch and everything about an individual is known? Used to trace our every move?

Well, I'm not exactly sure whether I think this would be a good thing or not. What I do know is, surely in it's simplest form, if you could 'flick a switch' and find a missing child and save a family the grief and heartache which subsequently follows an abduction etc, it's not a bad idea?

Please feel free to argue the pro's and con's as you will. As I said, I'm neither convinced one way or the other. Was just a crazy 1am thought....

Rob.


Mods, please feel free to move this to a more apt forum!

On the surface it sounds like a good idea, I've always thought that a DNA sample should be collected at birth as well.

However I'm sure it would never fly legally, there are too many people who believe the government would use it for other purposes or who would say it was an invasion of privacy.

I think people should be given the choice.
I'd rather have a chip in my head (or wherever) and have a DNA sample on file than turn up as an unidentified decomposed corpse and remain a missing person my entire life.
Yes, the government would be able to track my every move but if you use an ATM card, credit card, if you go to the doctors, get a job, etc etc, they can trace your every move anyway.

In the States parents are "encouraged" to have their children fingerprinted as toddlers. This is to keep their children safe from all harm for as long as they live. Right? Wrong. This is so when junior lifts his first car or *fill in the crime here* his fingerprints will already be on file and within hours police could have a match. Boom, Junior is behind bars and justice is served. Think about it, lawbreakers with no criminal record what-so-ever could be imprisoned right away.

Now lets say we use an implant, voluntarily of course, to keep their children safe from all harm for as long as they live. On the 18th birthday does the implant come out? Are we able to track Junior until he's a Senior or will that be reserved for criminals only.


I like the idea of saving children and protecting them from dangerous people. I like the idea of tracking criminals especialy dangerous ones. It does indeed open up a huge can worms, doesn't it. There are objective, openminded posters on this very website that cry out in vain at the idea of phone taps place on potentially dangerous people's phones; if a conversation taken place over a phone tap that mentions a rime comitted or about to be commited its an invasion of privacy. Implanting children with locator chips is a far worse violation of one's rights commited by their own parents at birth much like the fingerprinting.

Now you're dead so you're life is over by that point isn't it?

Its not about believing its about knowing and I know the government would abuse that technology. Putting a invisible leash on you're self is not a smart idea if it can track you it can control you. You're idea is how democracy dies and dictatorships live threw easy control and unwilling political force.

I agree with your post, but isn't the whole idea to put criminals behind bars?

OK I may be old fashioned but............."When junior lifts his first car" ?

Is that a new rite of passage? It used to be that stealing cars was illegal, is that not the case anymore?

Even if we were all implanted with tracking chips of some sort at birth, people would find ways to remove/block them. Not to mention the costs of producing that amount of chips and upkeeping them.

If this would be done without our knowledge, it could not be used excessively. Especially not for means which are of common interest. Probably only for military intelligence.

But if people would be tagged and it's commonly known that they are, I do see how this would be useful: By hacking the tracking system you can find any person you want to. After abducting that person, you know of course that you'll need to remove the tag as soon as possible, which would only be a very little operation. Should not cause much blood loss.
Also you could make a car bomb respond only to your mark's tag. Thus avoiding the danger of killing the wrong person and missing the mark.
Oh, and not to forget how useful cracked tags would be. For faking alibies, framing other persons, &c.

Yes, this really would be a great thing for criminals.

And think how this could be used politically. When government organisations could trace every single step of opposition members as well as of reporters.

Yes, yes it is and parents should be told what its actually for and not to keep their child safe.

I don't think you would ever be able to lie, or miss represent anything. all your moves would be traced. Someone who didn't care about there life, could use this informatin to do anything. an irate husband bent on harm to his family, they couldn't hide anywhere from him. And he wouldn't care about what you did to him. People are out there now who care nothing about themself but only to do harm to others. the information would be like a loaded gun for them and no protection for anyone else.
Yes, he could be tracked but if they don't see it coming you couldn't be saved, so you still end up dead, but your still being tracked and never ever step out of line

See: Logans Run.

Here's a bit of a twist, what if only criminals were tagged?

I'm not talking about minor criminals, but what about professional criminals and dangerous criminals.

If they do time...........they get tagged, the price they pay for ruining it for the rest of us.

I have an autistic son who is a habitual wanderer. That means he runs away constantly and for no aparent reason. My house is buttoned up like fort knox (seriously, steel mesh bolted over windows and padlocks on everything including the attic vents) and he still finds ways of getting out. He has no concept of danger or boundaries.

There is a lot of discussion among parents of kids like mine about implanting a chip so the wandering child can be found quickly and safely again. I, however, am dead against it. I don't trust the govt. to not monitor people who had these chips. I'm very pro-flying-under-the-radar, so to speak.

Personally I've always thought that there may have been a secret government program to develope this type of technology. it might actually be a better explaination for all the abduction cases, rather than aliens. If you had to develope a tecnology that might or might not be recieved well you would do it in secret. You would need a cover, and you would need the cover story to help deflect attention from whats really goin on. So you drug your intended victims, keep them doped up and parade a few people in mock alien costumes in front of them. Thats more believeble than aliens flying all that way to do anal probes. And just look at the people claiming abduction. Its almost as if they only pick people who can't help but butress the idea that its crazy therefore aiding in the cover up. They don't take the attorney general of the united states they take billy bob the gas station attendant. After all if you wanted to invent a tracking system for humans you would have to experiment on those you meant to track.

Anyone who supports the idea of tagging at birth is foolish.
Government is merely a collection of people in power, or assisting that power.
Most people are decent folk but some will commit immoral actions for, "the greater good" as they see it.
Look at how many seemingly decent Germans became Nazis.
Have you forgotten that lesson already?
Trust no government to always look out for your common good. Any government is more concerned with its own survival and perpetuation than the rights, safety, comfort or security of its people. History proves this through the ages.

If the day arrives that my government says I MUST submit to a tracking system, then that government is no longer for, by or of The People.
And that's precisely why the founders of the United States put the 2nd Amendment into the Constitution, so the common man would have a last-resort means to resist and change an abusive government.
"... But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government and to provide new guards for their future security."
Ring a bell?
As a last resort, Americans are allowed by their Constitution to change their government by force of arms if need be. That's what the 2nd Amendment is all about. It's not about duck hunting!

Tracking citizenry with implants is abusive. My government has NO right to know where I am at any given time. Sure, I may be tracked by credit card purchases but that is a side-effect of the convenience of credit cards, and not their sole purpose.
I wish I could thwart tracking by credit card by I can't.

exactly true gatofeo

Here's an idea,

Instead of implanting your kids, don't leave them alone in hotel rooms while on vacation.


Seriously do you have any idea how bad parenting would get if this was the case?

Yeah I know what you mean everyday i see little kids five and six years old off on thier own with no parents in sight. My daughters are 8 and 4 and I don't let them outta my sight for no reason. Its is not a safe world, children are not a part time thing, and people will not understand if you lose your kid, they;ll just think your an idiot.

the erosion of freedom by law . one of H Clinton speeches she said something about being safe--safety from the terrorist , crime and what not . we are supposed to have a cop at every corner checking even the most minor things-??-your car gets stopped and your ID checked every other mile down the highway . ? -- but somehow horrific crimes are in the headlines every day ?? you can't buy safety . --and safety is an illusion at best .

a cop is ready to hand you a traffic ticket . why is that ??--tickets for minor offenses make $$$ . but it cost money to keep real criminals in the can . where do you think these guys committing these horrendous crimes come up with these long records from ? somebody --to save money --let them out early---

manson came up for parole the other day , ironically every one of his co-horts has been out for years ? something is wrong with that picture .

what we have is a bunch of laws--a bunch of government agency money being spent to little or no effect --with the same people telling us--we need more money-- lets pass more laws . build a big fence around mexico , stricter border with canada . lets put a chip in every persons head ! we want to track your every move because YOU might be a terrorist . YOU might commit a crime .

never mind that the house, the senate and the congress is filling their pockets with PAC money --most of it funneled in from a source outside the US .--what about terrorist that are a threat to freedom that use ink-pens to write laws that restrict freedom ? that take soft-money from who knows where--for "unknown-favors". if we legislate freedom away--to become a " draconia -police-state" --then hasn't osama won in effect--?? he has not managed to 'kill" freedom" but he has caused our own bloated and corrupt system to 'kill freedom " for him ?

"justice" and the" law " are often opposed to each other . "treason" is a word only reserved for an armed populace attempting a takeover > but if you have a takeover by a bum-rush of people with sacks of $$$ buying favors with dire consequences for the nation that's BAU ? something wrong with that picture as well .

what would the founding fathers thought about this ? what happened to "liberty or death !" ?

were turning the nation into a prison --were all convicted . except for the uber rich , and the beaurocrats who write their own tickets ?

zukie&jim....exactly.

I just wish they would do more liberty and less death, But it is thier stock and trade.

We should all get those chips. Only criminals and adulterers need fear the chip.

YEs there is an upside but do you really want your government to be able to track your every move. What if a new government takes power that doesn't have the same ideals as you. Now you can't even fight them because they will know where ever you go. Its a fine concept but to broad a crevice to avoid falling into.

my thoughts exaclty. I dont want it . Id rather be unknown then to have my every move known.

Well - if we make the assumption that the USA will be overthrown by some maniac dictatorship whose only interest is in tracking everyone's moves because they are so bored (sort of like what sort of ridiculous twit "GOD" would need to be to actually sit around all day keeping track of all his neat little toy people he made) then I would die while attacking that government and it wouldn't matter to me.

Hopefully every true American would feel the same way and we'd get our country back.

Other than that, the data would never be used except under a court order. If you were accused of murder and said "I didn't do it man! I was never there!". Then a judge could issue a warrant and your tracker location during the time of the crime could be ascertained.

So, if the USA wasn't overthrown by crazy freaks that just wanted to watch everyone's little tracker GPS coordinates all day long because they were really bored and liked the graphics (sort of like early 80's video games) then the only people that should fear the tag would be criminals adulterers and paranoid conspiracy folks that could always come up with one more reason why this sort of protection was bad (even though the real reason is they know they have committed crimes in the past and/or are likely to commit crimes in the future).

You need not go over board there Repo. Its a sad fact of history that governments change. Do you think the russian people felt as you do when they stood the russian royalty against the wall and replaced them with the people's government in the attempt to create utopia. No they probably thought these guys are good guys they wouldn't mess with us. Then came fifty years of KGB and government hyper control. They started out with good ideals then realized they could have more fun if they ran the show. Thats what I'm talking about. Most people don't even have the first clue about the basic mandates of the various parties. If they even vote in the first place. That kind of ignorance leads to guys like Bush getting elected. (with a little help)