Throughout history there have been legends and stories told around campfires at night of things that lived; though dead. Things that needed blood to survive. Now, we are in a scientifically enlightened age, and such things as Un-dead are thrown away as being impossible. But the question I ask is whither we are really being wise in our in our refusal to even consider the possibility of such a beings exsistance. I desire that this "Forbidden" subject be approached with an open mind. Not with lies but with truth; even if the truth turn out to be more terrible than a lie ever could.
Full Version: R.I.P. or NOT. Is there evidence of the Un-Dead?
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Ancient Mysteries & Alternative History
since when has discussing undead been forbidden? 
I think he means by scientist's because they think that there is no rational explanation for it and therefore they will not discuss it as they think it's proposterous.But i dont 
for clarification I realilize that there are several postings on vampires in the zoological section; but i am seeking discussion on all types of undead and not these disturbed people who get there kicks of off chewing on some person body and then walking around saying ther Dracula, Alucard, or whatever else they damned well say. And if anyone if offended by what I just said then bring on the arguements.
ummm. and why would you want to argue about the undead? You started this thread dude. So how about sharing some of your forbidden thoughts? 
and why would you want to argue about the undead? You started this thread dude. So how about sharing some of your forbidden thoughts?
Sure. The arabs had their ghouls, the africans had their floating heads with entrails slidding behind them, the Hebrews Golom; anlong with the inevetable were-wolves and vampires. There are many such creature. Whither they are true or not will probably remained unsolved at least offically. And as for the subject being forbidden it is held as such by most scientist because it a myth; and by most religious people because the Un-dead are suuposed to be evil and, the religious elite say we are not to even think about those things.
| QUOTE (crosswarrior @ Dec 11 2003, 05:45 PM) |
| the africans had their floating heads with entrails slidding behind them |
That is a sure way to get an infection...I hate it when that happens. I always drag my entrails in a zip lock baggie when I am trying to scare people. It loses some effect, but having to wash your entrails out everynight is a drag.
Do you believe in walking undead such as you have just listed? or are you just looking for an argument on the issue?
Pesonally I believe that it is likely that they exist. But an Un-dead is a far cry from a person with a mental problem.
Like I said previously I base my belief on the man legends and and some things I have heard my self. Along with the logic that the legends were probably based on more fact than an insane cannible. But then on the flip side the same logic could be used to prove that Star Wars is real. 
And I'm sure that there are quite a few people who think i am off my ocker for believing that vampires are real. "Let evey man believe what he will." Charles Darwin.
we have the following undead candidates:
- Traditional undead, hunting for food, killing people, etc. Considering undead encounters are virtually non-existent, they can't survive.
- Lazy undead, just walking arround doing nothing. This is impossible by the laws of thermodynamics.
- Magical undead, corpses controlled by necromancers through magic. This is possible if the art of necromancy is real.
- Technological undead, there is a possibility to control a fresh corpse with science, but nobody take the highly unethical experiment. Just cross this one out for another 500 years.
- "Garbage" undead, these are undeads live in remote areas, consuming garbages or even animal to stay alive. Almost impossible as there will be no human corpses in these area, unless somehow a whole tribe turned into undeads.
- Symbiotic undead, maybe some kind of bacteria or fungus allow the undead to keep living, while the fungus consume the corpse. This type of undead will not last very long, and the fungus need a continuous corpse supply. Highly unlikely.
- Brain dead undead, for some reason the brain of a person is dead, but the basic biological functions work perfectly. Very small probability, and I'm not aware of any incident reported.
- Traditional undead, hunting for food, killing people, etc. Considering undead encounters are virtually non-existent, they can't survive.
- Lazy undead, just walking arround doing nothing. This is impossible by the laws of thermodynamics.
- Magical undead, corpses controlled by necromancers through magic. This is possible if the art of necromancy is real.
- Technological undead, there is a possibility to control a fresh corpse with science, but nobody take the highly unethical experiment. Just cross this one out for another 500 years.
- "Garbage" undead, these are undeads live in remote areas, consuming garbages or even animal to stay alive. Almost impossible as there will be no human corpses in these area, unless somehow a whole tribe turned into undeads.
- Symbiotic undead, maybe some kind of bacteria or fungus allow the undead to keep living, while the fungus consume the corpse. This type of undead will not last very long, and the fungus need a continuous corpse supply. Highly unlikely.
- Brain dead undead, for some reason the brain of a person is dead, but the basic biological functions work perfectly. Very small probability, and I'm not aware of any incident reported.
Braindead Undead sounds plausable, at least it descibes me a 5:00a.m. before my coffee 
Zombies are physically impossible to survive, for the brain to work, and move its various limbs in search of tasty treats such as brains, it needs energy to keep the brain alive, such as food and oxygen, since a zombie is nothing more than a rotting corpse this would be impossible, decay would make getting blood supply to the brain impossible, and the consumption of oxygen and food to get the energy impossible.
As for vampires, also physically impossible. articles say that vampires blood is congealed to a unmoving sludge, look at my previous paragraph to explain how the brain would not function.
As for vampires, also physically impossible. articles say that vampires blood is congealed to a unmoving sludge, look at my previous paragraph to explain how the brain would not function.
"Not if I can help it"
| QUOTE (AndyThorley @ Dec 13 2003, 06:15 PM) |
| "Not if I can help it" |
lol thats our Ash!
I think the closest thing to the undead that could ever exist would be people in a zomie like state from a infection of some kind. Kinda like that "rage" thing in 28 Days Later, where all the body is intact except what is affected by the virus, and the person is unaware of anything other then whatever they seek or whatever.
| QUOTE (Blood Angel @ Dec 12 2003, 10:02 AM) |
| Zombies are physically impossible to survive, for the brain to work, and move its various limbs in search of tasty treats such as brains, it needs energy to keep the brain alive, such as food and oxygen, since a zombie is nothing more than a rotting corpse this would be impossible, decay would make getting blood supply to the brain impossible, and the consumption of oxygen and food to get the energy impossible. |
Who's to say that zombies require oxygen? After all (and this is probably a really bad argument but I'm going to say it anyway
) there are bacteria that don't require oxygen to multiply. I think they're called anaerobic and can't grow in environments containing oxygen. Maybe zombies are similar.....?
Not to mention that there may very well be things out there in the world that we know nothing about. We have not explored every bit of the land on Earth, and deffinently not a whole lot of the water.
Let me just put it this way . . .NOT EVERYTHING CAN BE SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN OR DENIED in my opinion. ANyone agree?
Everything can be certified in one way or another by using science.
And if what is to be certfied is not something science wants to admit exist? Then what? Can you classify God? Can you classify the Spirit? Are you able to certify miracles? Not everything is in the realm of science.
But to be sure if it exist and can be seen, and felt, and lives and can die; then it can be certified. Though it's existance may not be made offical. And in this I am speaking of the Un-dead; should there indeed truly be such a thing.
But to be sure if it exist and can be seen, and felt, and lives and can die; then it can be certified. Though it's existance may not be made offical. And in this I am speaking of the Un-dead; should there indeed truly be such a thing.
Well put crosswarrior!
Science can verify many things, but science only verifies what physical laws we know of, what of the laws we have not discovered yet?
Ok i need to explain a little bit more it seems. The muscles of the body require a electrical+chemical message in order for them to move, this message comes from the brain, with out this message the muscle cannot move, muscles also do not think for themselves. In order for the brain to work it need nutrients specifically oxygen, in a decayed state and no way for the oxygen to supply the brain the message simply will not be sent. Therefore the muscle will not move, regardless of anareobic oxygen supply, for nerve endings are probably the first to decay, without nerves the muscles have no way of recieving brain transmissions.
wondering if there's ever been a case of poltergeist animating a corpse. Think I've heard of a poltergeist animating clothes, or a spoon and other stuff... why not a corpse? Or even a skeleton... gives me the creeps.
Hey,I was supposed to die as a baby,I did,and came back,now I have a huge scar across my stomach from the asshole doctors having to do that.So technically i'm undead
Enough proof?
Enough proof?
Certain people in the world, such as I, have no souls. So we must be no more no less than the walking dead.
| QUOTE (PlaguePrincess @ Dec 29 2003, 08:39 PM) |
| Certain people in the world, such as I, have no souls. So we must be no more no less than the walking dead. |
Youre a goth arent you.
Thought so.
No, as a matter of fact.
"If one is interested in death surely one must be a goth".
Are you a goth, since you asked?
"If one is interested in death surely one must be a goth".
Are you a goth, since you asked?
Gothic. HA!!! You are discussing it, but what is it that you mean by it? For there are many definitions of what makes Something Gothic. In the Websters Dictionary it is defined as relating in style, mannerism, or architector, to the Medieval. Then it is also thought by many as simply wearing clothes that exhibit a darkness.
But that is not true Gothic. At least not in the way you are using it. Gothic is a mode of thought; and even so there are two distinct forms. There is Black Gothic, this is the way of thought that says we are going to die soon, so throw out all rules, and be as bad as you can before it is all over. Then their is what I have heard refered to as Templar Gothic, this way of thought says that yes we are going to die soon, and that we are in a battle against evil, and so we must fight with all that is in us while there is time; and then we will be judged.
And so I finish by asking what do you mean when you talk about someone being Gothic?
But that is not true Gothic. At least not in the way you are using it. Gothic is a mode of thought; and even so there are two distinct forms. There is Black Gothic, this is the way of thought that says we are going to die soon, so throw out all rules, and be as bad as you can before it is all over. Then their is what I have heard refered to as Templar Gothic, this way of thought says that yes we are going to die soon, and that we are in a battle against evil, and so we must fight with all that is in us while there is time; and then we will be judged.
And so I finish by asking what do you mean when you talk about someone being Gothic?
I didn't know gothic meant all those things. I assumed what was meant by "goth" are all those barbarian tribes from Germania 
"Gothic" like many English words has gradually evolved in meaning through the years. Gaining new meanings, and never quite lossing the old ones.
| QUOTE (Plaque princess) |
| Certain people in the world, such as I, have no souls. So we must be no more no less than the walking dead. |
how exactly do you know you don't have a soul ?
I'm not sure, but sometimes I can be very cold
| QUOTE |
| I'm not sure, but sometimes I can be very cold |
Well it is winter o_o
I'm not sure how this makes you so sure you have no soul....
I recently saw a Movie called 21 grams. The premise is that when people die they lose precisely 21 grams of weight and that this represents either the weight of a soul or the quantifiable measure of guilt which people place on themselves in life.
So far I havent been able to find anything scientific on the web, but it does strike me as a very interesting notion.
So far I havent been able to find anything scientific on the web, but it does strike me as a very interesting notion.
| QUOTE (PlaguePrincess @ Dec 29 2003, 10:23 PM) |
| No, as a matter of fact. "If one is interested in death surely one must be a goth". Are you a goth, since you asked? |
Nope.
Though often I am called one because I wear all black and Im generally not a happy chappy.
What I would like to know is why the Gothic lifestyle became entwined with vampirism. Is it just because vampirism is the most dead that you can be while still living?
QUOTE(crosswarrior @ Dec 12 2003, 12:43 AM) [snapback]98991[/snapback]
Braindead Undead sounds plausable, at least it descibes me a 5:00a.m. before my coffee
haha same here
btw nice avatar, HELLSING KICKS ASS!!!
QUOTE(crosswarrior @ Dec 12 2003, 08:03 AM) [snapback]98963[/snapback]
Pesonally I believe that it is likely that they exist. But an Un-dead is a far cry from a person with a mental problem.
ok
so where would they be existing,,, any particular place
QUOTE(crosswarrior @ Jan 5 2004, 05:57 AM) [snapback]108432[/snapback]
What I would like to know is why the Gothic lifestyle became entwined with vampirism. Is it just because vampirism is the most dead that you can be while still living?
funny u should say that i just co wrote a goth album for a friend of mine, bands name is ENTWINE,, album is out next month..
im not a goth,, and hey there only human..not vampires. not dead,, just a music lifestyle
If you looking for undead play WarCraft or Baldurs gate or the elder scrolls or anything
If you looking for undead play WarCraft or Baldurs gate or the elder scrolls or anything 
Sorry im a crazy game playa
Sorry im a crazy game playa
QUOTE(PsychicPenguin @ Dec 12 2003, 04:36 AM) [snapback]98984[/snapback]
- Magical undead, corpses controlled by necromancers through magic. This is possible if the art of necromancy is real.
Dont care if you believe me or if you think im crazy, but the art of necromancy is real. Not real enough as to bring life back to a corpse, or at least i havent figured that out yet, but it is real enough as to summon spirits and demons
QUOTE(Celumnaz @ Dec 29 2003, 02:32 PM) [snapback]105772[/snapback]
wondering if there's ever been a case of poltergeist animating a corpse. Think I've heard of a poltergeist animating clothes, or a spoon and other stuff... why not a corpse? Or even a skeleton... gives me the creeps.
That could be a possibility, though i dont think it is very likely, poltergeists usually dont animate things, they just tend to move them around and people seem to think they animate them, but a spirit possessing a corpse could work
QUOTE(crosswarrior @ Dec 11 2003, 11:13 PM) [snapback]98889[/snapback]
Throughout history there have been legends and stories told around campfires at night of things that lived; though dead. Things that needed blood to survive. Now, we are in a scientifically enlightened age, and such things as Un-dead are thrown away as being impossible. But the question I ask is whither we are really being wise in our in our refusal to even consider the possibility of such a beings exsistance. I desire that this "Forbidden" subject be approached with an open mind. Not with lies but with truth; even if the truth turn out to be more terrible than a lie ever could.
All living things need blood to survive, except maybe amoebas, I don't know. But hte undead? I have a real hard time believing in vampires, ghouls or anything of that nature. I've met a few 'living' vampires, but they suck your bank account dry, and maybe your will to live, but no blood as of yet.
Mankind thinks he knows everything there is to know, which is a fallacy. There is much we don't know. As for the blissful ignorance of the undead, I haven't seen any actual undead lately, have you?
Read about this a year or two ago and thought I'd mention it.
During the 1980's an ethnobotanist by the name of Wade Davis was researching reported zombies in Haiti. He makes a pharmaceutical case for zombies in his books "The Serpent and The Rainbow" (later made into a movie) and "Passage of Darkness" which both detailed his findings on the zombification process.
He claimed that by eating two specially made powders, a person would become a zombie. The first contains a deadly substance called tetrodotoxin, the same found in japanese pufferfish.If it doesn't kill the individual who ingests it, it puts them in a near death state until the second powder is given that contains hallucinagenics. This second step is what puts the victims in a zombie like state with no appatent will of their own. the only documented case of this happening involved a Haitian man named Clairvius Narcisse.
Not exactly the viral flesh eating monster you see in Resident Evil but I thought it was interesting.
During the 1980's an ethnobotanist by the name of Wade Davis was researching reported zombies in Haiti. He makes a pharmaceutical case for zombies in his books "The Serpent and The Rainbow" (later made into a movie) and "Passage of Darkness" which both detailed his findings on the zombification process.
He claimed that by eating two specially made powders, a person would become a zombie. The first contains a deadly substance called tetrodotoxin, the same found in japanese pufferfish.If it doesn't kill the individual who ingests it, it puts them in a near death state until the second powder is given that contains hallucinagenics. This second step is what puts the victims in a zombie like state with no appatent will of their own. the only documented case of this happening involved a Haitian man named Clairvius Narcisse.
Not exactly the viral flesh eating monster you see in Resident Evil but I thought it was interesting.
QUOTE(crosswarrior @ Dec 12 2003, 02:45 AM) [snapback]98954[/snapback]
The arabs had their ghouls, the africans had their floating heads with entrails slidding behind them, the Hebrews Golom; anlong with the inevetable were-wolves and vampires.
A fascinating list, but are ghouls and werewolves supposed to be "undead"? My understanding is that the werewolf is a living human with the ability to shape-shift into canine mode and that the ghoul is likewise a living person who feeds on the dead.
And doesn't the Golem have much more in common with robots and androids? It's constructed from clay rather than flesh and can only be activated by the insertion of a "command card.".
Assuming un-dead means the bodies original soul has departed and the body has become somehow reanimated I would think the 2 most likely ways for this to happen are through some viral agency or by 'possession' by another spirit.
In either case the reanimating agent would still require sustenance to maintain the body...mmmm...braaaiiiiinnnnssss!
In either case the reanimating agent would still require sustenance to maintain the body...mmmm...braaaiiiiinnnnssss!
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