Meaning, you also can't give one person involve and yet suppose to have all the evidence. And you saying they were CIA Special Operations actually translate to, YOUR EVIDENCE POINTS TO NO ONE.

Names don't mean anything. These people don't operate with name badges on, even if they had names it wouldn't be there real name.
Evidence of the whole thing happening and the control and manipulation of the system shows that a group of elite people have done this. These people dont live by the laws of day to day citizens. If there was any evidence it would be suppressed and burned and swept into the bin. Nobody can take on these people because they are the people that control us. You dont need to have evidence because common sense tells you that these people are the only ones capable of doing such a thing and burying it. You may as well start searching for the Holy Grail in your search for evidence, I doubt you will ever find what your looking for. Ill give you a name Jeb Bush, Head of Security, World Trade Center.

Aroces, you have to have strength to be that ignorant, im sorry. Did you not read ANYTHING I posted in response to you? By the looks of it no, you didnt. You dont even have anything to validate your arguments, you know what I have? Eye Witnesses; that holds up more credible in a court of law then saying "no your wrong and crazy". And actually, the basement explosions were widely reported by firefighters and many eye witnesses present within the buildings; you seem to just purposely overlook all of the testimony/videos posted. I already know what you are, it's apparent that your not here to learn or "discuss" anything, otherwise it would be shown in your post; you intentionally overlook anything disproving your claim, then when you counter-respond it's composed of total nonsense or insults to make us appear crazy, no facts. You claim firemen or others havent reported bombs in the buildings when I just quoted "some" of them doing so on video! Yet, you act as if I never posted it at all. HELLLOOOO!

You wanna talk about basement damage at the World Trade Centers, well then lets talk about the janitor who worked there 20 years, William Rodriguez. He reported that there was large heavy duty explosion within the basement of the tower he was in BEFORE the first plane struck, he even witnessed people walking around with they're flesh hanging off of them. Yeah, Aroces just ignore that "I dont want it to be true, I cant believe it, ......it never happened".

Oh, I love this testimony of this EMS worker from 9/11.

Karin Deshore -- Captain (E.M.S.)
Source (oral histories)

And, lets not forget this testimony from FDNY Chief of Safety on 9/11.


Things like what?! Hmmm? What can could cause a large heavy duty explosion within the basement of one of the towers BEFORE any plane hit it? Start naming some things which could have done it, a multitude, a multitude of things, like ...earth, wind and fire???

Wow, why would we need an agenda to take Bush out of the White House, he is practically putting himself out of the White House with his actions and his low approval rating;approval rating at an all time low might I add.......(26%)

Yet all of the major media outlets have REPORTED it. Can you curve your thinking process around the concept of a "Cover Up" or a "Media Blackout"? You would easily get a job working for Fox News, they need people like you. The media in it's current state is nothing more but a propaganda tool of the government, they wont report anything critical to the government's versions without putting this whacky theme to it to make it appear crazy so people would laugh a ridicule it and in turn disreguard it.

AROCES, why do you even waste your time and post? Many researchers and government whistle blowers have openly disproved the governments version on 9/11, your the one still trying to follow the yellow brick road Scarecrow.

No The14u2cee, your the one who is uneducated and misinformed about the nature of secrecy.

""Soruce Wikipedia

Uh oh, your a sane American for not believing in this conspiracy? If you're a Sane American and can walk society freely.... with your thought process, I rather be committed to an asylum.

What Scarecrow? What are the chances of you actually intelligently responding to any of my post?

PNAC Members, the C.I.A., the F.B.I., the Bush Administration, the Rochefellers, the CFR,Trilateral Commission, ect ect.........

Talking in caps dont make you sound smart Scarecrow. Check the available evidence about 9/11 being an inside job, it may not point directly at who did it, but it sure says it was an inside job, hands down, it all begs you to ask who could of been in the position to pull off such attacks, it surely wasnt a man on a dialysis machine in a cave, the best canidates are elements within the U.S. governments.

As usual you trot out the 'it would take too big a conspiracy' b.s. The CIA does things in secret all the time all over the world.
We already know how the whole thing was pulled off. It was done by people thinking they were taking part in 'drills' on that day,
when what they were doing in fact was assisting unknowingly in the conspiracy. The CIA's JFK assassination was kept secret for
at least 30 or 40 years. Only now is it pretty generally known that the CIA did it. But I guess you'd deny that too.
Eventually all of the details on 9/11 will emerge, such as how and when the demolition charges were placed in Tower 7.
There are some who will tell you that many 'politically sensitive' buildings are rigged for demolition from the time of their construction,
but we wouldn't the stupid public to know about all that , now, would we? Nor do we want the public to know that the elite has
been spying on them via google-Earth style satellite technology for the past twenty or so years.

I've watched the Loose Change videos several times and the videos speak for themselves; it was clearly an inside job. I'm interested in any follow-up information and thank you for posting this, Urban Legend.

If the firefighters had told him to get away from the building as there were bombs going off everywhere. how come the firefighters havent come forward and tell the public it was planes and bombs caused the act.
whats the offical response on wtc 7 falling seeing that a plane dident hit it.

“9/11 Bombshell” would be an understatement but obviously we need to wait for the “individual” Avery & Burmas interviewed to be properly identified and found credible before this is good information.

Bring on Loose Change: Final Cut.




Anyone looking for suspects should place the CIA and Mossad high on their list (followed closely by the ISI and MI6) - false flags and covert ops are their business.

Aroces, there is no need for the personal attacks; please discuss the matter in a civil manner without the flaimbaiting. The past several posts of your add nothing but this kind of content and it isn't right.

Me ignorant? Of course I read everything, why do you think I find the logic of it simply don't make sense?
William Rodriguez said there was LARGE HEAVY EXPLOSIONS? Then who called the Fire Dept. and the Police about it? Why none of them respnded to a Large Heavy Explotion in the basement? Why didn't any of the authorities went down there and checked it out? Don't tell me only William Rodriguez heard or notice it?

I'm fine with that if calling one rediculous is out of bound. But how about me being called ignorant repeatedly?
I have added logic to the evidence, can't use logic then? Some evidence are mere words from witness, even at court logic is use to make your case.

In that case, why bother with everything when you believe that CIA ghost are the ones who did it all?
Unless you believe that they are human beings too and if we really want to bag them , we can. That is if we have something that will bag them, but we dont. all we have is he said this and that, video evidence that is not recognise by any Elected Official in this country, the entire US goverment and the majority of the American people. And that is beacuse it is merely a make believe base on manufactured evidence.

The firemen in the area stated that the falling debris from the towers was damaging the foundation of the other building and that they did warn people away from it. The official response is that they did their job and did it well.

Dennis Leary who operates a national foundation for firemen is enraged whenever he hears of this conspiracy. You could perhaps google him and find out more on what he has to say about it. I think he is a very good man and he is very close with all of the firefighters.

How about that video showing the BBC reporting wtc7 collapsed 20 mins before it actually did? And William Rodriguez and others heard the explosion below them seconds before they feel the big one above them so he didn't have time to report the explosions seeing how he was rescuing people being burn alive.

yes, hey AROCES, lets begin here, CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY BUILDING SEVEN COLLAPSED?

BTW it was touched by nothing. (Anxiously awaiting your response)

Fire from the twin tower destroyed building 7, but of course you don't believe that. I tell you what, find out who the Insurance company the building is insured with and tell them you know excatly who destroyed Building 7 , they might give you a reward for it.

Let's say fire destroyed WTC 7

My question then is, why did the building collapse in on itself like it did rather than coming down in stages?

I'm not convinced there was or wasn't a conspiracy, but how was it possible for WTC 1, 2 & 7 to all collapse at free fall speed?

Um, YEA, William did say there were large heavy duty explosions in the basement before the first plane struck;no need to ask me that, I've already stated it, just read my response. Who called the FireDept? Well, hmmm lets see......The first plane is heading towards the first Twin Tower then before the plane impacts there is a basement explosion, then seconds later there is another large explosion from up above at the top of the building(the first plane strikes),the first plane was seen by firemen on the streets and virtually everyone in the streets, because they actually seen the first crash the first thing they did was rush towards the buildings, then the city went into total chaos. It's possible people could have called authorities because of the basement explosion but the thing is, the basement explosion and the first plane impact happened within close time proximity of each other. Literally just about every authority(FDNY,NYPD) who saw or heard the first impact started rushing towards the Towers. It all happen so quickly, the FDNY and NYPD both sped towards the towers after the first impact, whether they heard of the impact from someone else or seen it themselves, they all took immediate actions once they found out. If people would have called to report either event(the basement explosion or plane impact) the police would have already been in front or in the building's close proximity to know about it ...like they were, so either way they knew already reguardless if anyone would have called, once that first plane hit that event became public knowledge in seconds and short minutes.

Again, you dont read anything, ive already posted testimony you most likely didnt even read or watch. I'm starting to question the very purpose of why Im discussing this with you in particular because you have nothing more but non-arguments(insults and opinions). It was widely reported by virtually all the news sources present in New York that there were secondary and third devices going off everywhere in the building AND lower heavy duty underground(basement) explosions.

Hmm, lets see, William was helping people out of the building with they're flesh hanging off they're bodies and police and firemen were rushing the building doing the same, and these lower explosions in the building were reported, William isnt the only person who maintains that facts. Aroces, posting to you is becoming a waste of time and redundant; I just keep explaining the same things over to you, then you come back and ask a question which was similar to your last question, and you get the same answer. What more do you want Scarecrow?!

Oh, yea, sorry about that then Aroces, I didnt mean to call you ignorant in an insulting sense, more like ignorant in the sense that your so "unknowing" to alot of the very facts we are trying to discuss. So if I call you ignorant, dont take it personally. But I find it funny you claim you were using logic; from reading your post that appeared to be the most distant thing from your arguments......

Oh really? If thats the case he will be even more enraged while he argues with 3/4 of the fire department and first responders who claim they heard,saw, and felt explosions around WTC 1,2, and 7.

AROCES, surely you know how much of a poorly formed argument that is...... Lets see, the official story claims impact damage + a raging inferno from jet-fuel is what brought the towers down causing a "global collapse". Your argument simply isnt following logically Aroces.

1.WTC7 wasnt hit by any plane. (No widespread fireproof dislodging, or damage to core columns)
2. Wtc7 recieved minor damage from falling debris from the twin towers.
3. The "debris" only caused a fire on 2 floors!!!!!!!!!
4. 2 floors!
5. The fires were'nt anywhere near as hot as the fires in the World Trade Centers because there was no jet fuel present!!!
6. So, the only fires which could have been present on 2 floors in Wtc7 is a regular office fire caused by debris, not jet fuel.

So listen to yourself, you want us to believe World Trade Center 7 fell because of a regualr office building fire, which many steel structured buildings in history built before the World Trade Centers have survived! Buildings have had worst fires than the fire that was present on 2 floors in WTC7, they have burned for hours on multiple floors and STILL the buildings DID NOT COLLAPSE. Fire has never caused any high rise steel structure to collapse unto it's own footprint like WTC7 did without damaging any surrounding buildings, while collpasing in a mere 7 seconds.

You have no argument against these facts. The collapse of World Trade Center 7 was a classic controlled demolition. And not to mention, there was flowing molten metal found under the base of all 3 buildings months are the collapses. To defend the government's lies on this issue has to be from blind ignorance.


Jet fuel did not do this to the World Trade Center steel. This steel bended next to NO CRACKS. It bent like a pretzel, and Aroces fire cannot do this to steel.


Fires dont cause buildings to collapse neatly straight down in 7 seconds without damaging nearby buildings, a controlled demolition does though......




Oh, now that's funny, Im glad you have a sense of humor but too bad you cant argue. You see AROCES, this is all you ever do, you make a jive remark to make fun of the claim being contested while believing you have just refuted it. Jokes dont disprove, nor do they prove, so lets leave them out of this discussion, let deal with facts.

Thx,no problem; go read my article in the column section for more information. Pnac,Atta,9/11:The Conspiracy Facts

that exact answer is just what i needed, thanks AROCES. I actually thought you would come up with a better explanation, anyway. If building 7 collapsed like that by fire from the twin towers like you say, than i am the stupidest person in the world, because i don't think i could ever understand that.

Sounds like this guys just trying to get his "15 minutes of fame".

Its been confirmed! 9/11 was an inside job, this is the nail in the coffin, the burning bullet of the smoking gun!

Barry Jennings--Deputy Director, Emergency Services Department, New York City Housing Authority.

Why BBC, not one American Media reported it and ask our officials about it???

That has been explained, by several engineers, both independent and the government. Support beams collapsed and it cause a pancake effect.

The point is, if ever there was the slightest evidence of foul play, Insurance companies would be one of the most interested, agree? How come none is buying into any of this theory?

Then how come none of the major media is following up on your nail in the coffin crap?

Silverstein had it at the time and it was not insured against acts of war or terrorism.
Considering all of the money that his group lost, they will likely pay millions to make back even more through insurance settlements to anyone who can actually prove that it was not a result of terrorism on that day.

LOL INDEPENDANT, what are you talking about - All the 'Independant' investigations have been governmentally funded with Feds assistance.

Mate..

I think we may be finally on the Home Straight to the Truth.

Well, I mean it when I said you look rediculous believing all this conapiracy crap. But don't take it personally. Think about it, you have all your evidence and it is getting nowhere but here at UM.
Sounds rediculous indeed. but don't take it personally

YUP, that's funny is the only thig you can say. You have no answer to why none of the hundreds of insurance companies involve is embracing any of your SOLID EVIDENCE. Now, you will say they are part of the conspiracy?

And to invetigate the cause of fire is part of the Fire Departments job. Why no report of a bomb from them if 3/4 think they heard, saw and felt bombs going off? Fire department par of conspiracy?

People like you Acroces are the reason tyranny can prevail.

Educated but stupid at the same time.

Wow, not only you believe of this myth, but feel smart in doing so.

click and watch


ARRRGGGGGG!!!!!!

HAH the buildings foundation was damaged, What a dumb ass.
Hahahah.. 1/4 ....my god..Teetering. Media at its best.
If you are going to link something, Dont link to the Glen beck show, That is so neo-con influenced.
But hell, You live in the US - You must know more then i do.
The building had only very lightly damage, To one side of it.

That video proves absolutely nothing except it was an attempt to shove the truth aside, again.

Mr Acroces. Of course i feel incredibly smart while believing the fable. lol sarcasm.
No sir, I would feel stupid to be fooled by my own governments spin though.

So much HARD, SOLID, UNDENIABLE evidence you believe in and yet it is getting nowhere, why?
You being fooled alright, but you are barking at the wrong tree.

Actually, generally i dont go near the 9/11 Thing, i prefer the other thousands of bits of evidence that we are being controlled and manipulated by a powerful world elite.

But heck, Im sure you think im wrong there too - Everyman to his own eh.

You bend, shape and manufacture steel with heat.

And how much heat is required to Manipulate Steel.
What sort of temperatures are achieved by burning Jet fuel, at its highest point.

Sir, I await your answer.

There are Private Demolition companies, anyone came out yet and said, YES, that is definitely a controlled demolition. Imagine how as smart as you think you are they will look?

With the way the media manipulates such things, It simply would not happen - But if it did, they would kill the story quickly or simply start attacking the person on past indescretions.

1st - there is no way to know the exact temperature inside a burning building for each material and object can burn differently.
2nd - steel varies, depends on the strenght.
3rd - you don't need as much heat to just bend it than to mold or melt it.
Let me tell you this. I had a tire range that I could not use for my after market wheel before because of the angle. Heat it up at my gas kitchen stove, hammmered it to change angle of the bend. Let it cool off, and problem solved.

So now the Media, the governemnt, the Insurance companies, The politicians, United Airlines, The Federal governemnt, the Military is part of the conspiracy.
Amazing huh? And they all are able to keep the secret and work as one to fool, fool who? There is no one left?

...Where did i say anything about the Airlines, insurance companes or certain Politicians...

Seriously.

Its a hell of alot easier to get people to go along with something when they think they are apart of a drill.

Coincidence that they were doing those drills on that day though, Wouldnt you say ?

But that is precisely the point. With all the involvement to pull such stunt, it's just not possible to do it discreetly. I mean with today's communication and Media, how can anyone pull such thing.
This is not a lone assasin with a rifle.
Why do the believers think that we have lots of EVIL men in the government who would kill thousands just like that. Don't you folks ever thought that those people have families too and people they care about?

And when it became obvious that it wasn't a drill, not one of the people involved would have blown the whistle? "I was tricked into it, my boss was responsible for 9/11".

I do not understand why, assuming 9/11 was a false flag attack, some people suppose that a great number of people (specifically Americans) would have to be involved.

If we take Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Giuliani, Silverstein, a handful of other higher ups from the US/Israel/World and add in any number of CIA/Mossad operatives, would that not be enough?

I do not believe that any of the fire/police service, media, airlines, insurers, etc, needed to be directly involved with pulling off the operation.

OMFG, I just have been given the right to call you flat out idiotic. WTC7 did not PANCAKE! The buildings feel straight down in a classic controlled demoltion form, if there was a pancake collapse at the end of the collapse sequence there would a been a stack of floors pancaked on top of each other with the standing spindals of the core columns; this is not what we saw! The buildings collapsed straight down, with no resistance onto its own footprint without major damage to any other building. You are one of the many people trapped under a veil of ignorance, the truth can show its light but you'll push it away because your so accustomed to the dark.


This here is a picture of Bankers Trust, a building which was closer to the towers than building 7. This building was slightly closer to the South Tower than Building 7 was to the North Tower.This building sustained considerally more damage than ANY photos shown of building 7, YET it DID NOT COLLAPSE. What happened to a building collapsing from fire set from debris? No, this did not happen to this building. Why? Well, it's simple this building wasnt set up to have a control demolition. And look at the animation, WTC7 did not perform a pancake collapse, pancake collapses encounter resistance which slows the collapse down, this building came straight down vertically with no resistance. And note buildings dont "teater" when they are damaged, they aren't built like Legos which can be blown over by wind.

Hmm, how is that possible when they believe the official fable? Everyone seems to swallow the official story without even slightly leaving the possibility open of foul play. Then, when people question the official story they lose they're job, get ridiculed, get pentalized by they're superiors, and gag ordered, meaning if they speak about what they know, they goto jail. So much for exposing curruption.

This is exactly why it makes no sense to talk to a person of your level of low understanding and childish midset, your quick to ridicule and insult. And actually, the media did interview Barry Jennings, but guess what? His story disproved the official account as to why building 7 fell, so they simply quit talking about it and gave no further attention. Is your mind even mildly educated on the concept of "Media Cover-Up" or "Media Blackout"? The media dances to the tune of the government's riddle, anything contrary to what the government says, they ridicule,insult, and then take away all attention to make sure the story goes no where. The less people know the better chances that it will never get talked about, all keeping in the mind the first time it was publically brought up it wasnt presented unbiasedly to the public.

When I call you ignorant, I mean it with the highest sense of the word. Actually, WE the people have all this evidence and it is getting to more places than you. More celebrities have now embrassed that the official account of 9/11 being a fable not the mention the countless other government whitsle-blowers who went public. You keep that in mind........my message travels father than your keyboard.

No, what funny is how you CANT REFUTE ME. What kind of response is that? You have yet to explain any aspects of the collapse I raised. Instead you do just what your doing now, respond back with ridicule or a question already answered.

Did I not just make a thread full of FIRST RESPONDER TESTIMONY!? Literally every person in that list claims to hears large explosions and even say they heard bombs. Ok, officially Im ignoring you now. It's a waste of time talking to someone who is blind and deaf as they speak.

The heat experienced by the WTC steel cannot produce that.

NIST "None of the recovered steel samples showed evidence of exposure to temperatures above 600 degree C for as long as 15 minutes."
Nist Page 180.

Within the investigation of the recovered steel, Frank Gayle's group performed a paint defermation test which showed how paint would curl or change in a certain temperature range. So they took the samples and analized them to see what kind of temperature they were exposed to by looking at the paint. Less than 2 percent of the samples which have been pulled specifically from the fire zones, despite pre-collapse exposure to fire less than 2 percent seen temperatures of 480 degrees F* which is very low relative to the temperatures to "soften or melt" steel. "Only three of the recovered samples of exterior panels reached temperatures in excess of 250 degrees C* during the fires or after the collapse. This was based on a method devoloped by NIST to characterize maximum temperatures experienced by steel members through observations of paint cracking." NIST page 181

Aroces, Im done with you. You've been proved wrong on so many occations until I would go down in Ripely Believe It or Not for being the person with the most patience.


Great point.

Nope, you call idiot anyone who does not believe in your fairy tale. The truth? Fairy tale is not real, that is why you keep seeking the truth.


So? One building collapsed the other did not. Were they identical? NO. There you go.


You don't have an answer, that is why you just call the Isurance companies idiots as well.
Imagine, if you can prove to them your fairy tale, they can charge the government all the coverages they paid off.
And you will be their HERO. Well, what are you waiting for???


Fine, Barry Jennings made the case ON TV LIVE! What more do you need? It got no where, huh?
I'm telling you, you being fooled alright. But not by the governemnt. Alex jones?



And many years from now, you will still think we all are ignorant as you pursue your fairy tale. And eventually, you will start doubting it yourself.





Well, you claim you have SOLID evidence. OK, fine, now how come it does not go any further than UM? And all you can do is blame the boogey man.

Oh yeah, did they find Bomb blast on the paint instead then? Nope

Then go ask a Controlled Demolition Company what it takes to do such task. See, if Bush and his buddies can pull such stunt with a few CIA operatrives.
Well, it seem like the Fire, police and etc. are not buying into the conspiracy crap. Cover up then or they think it is all nonsense?

Well no, I only called you that because instead of refuting me you come back and make jokes in a pathetic attempt to discredit my claim, still to which you havnt done. Remember, jokes do not = refutation.

Both of these buildings were steel framed structures, both buildings took damage from the towers debris, and one collapsed, yet the one with the minor damage did not. Oh what a striking paralle, Wtc7 and Bankers Trust both take debris damage, wt7 with the minor damage collapses, and then we have the South Tower collapsing first when it was hit second, so much for the duration of burning fires.

Wow, bold assertions; I never called the insurance companies idiots. Posting to you is a waste of time, its like trying to show a person without a mouth how to speak. Acroces, when you are ready to debate and actually can produce a intellectual rebutal, contact me, until then, Im ignoring you.