QUOTE(nn23 @ Jun 23 2007, 07:41 AM) 
mATE!....i have goosebumps! 
That was beautifully put.....WOW.
That was beautifully put.....WOW.
I concur. Brave...kudos to you, that was very well stated.
Full Version: Belief and Faith are meaningless....
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs
I concur. Brave...kudos to you, that was very well stated.
QUOTE
Are you giving me limitations, what is it that you desire to be limited? You asked me to ask God a question (a question within a question) and I answered it in the way I did.
- nn23No limitations, i just couldn't find an answer in ur questions....though I do see ur point. I love this forum...things actually get accomplished!
QUOTE(Inner Space @ Jun 23 2007, 07:16 AM)
...and is the beginning of wisdom.
TBoneMinister...you're a really cool chap.
I respect your open-mindedness, and enjoy reading your posts. 
Thanx.
QUOTE(brave_new_world @ Jun 23 2007, 06:15 AM)
You can but that would show that you dont truly know.
I agree....true knowledge cannot be known by the human mind,hence the only way to have such knowledge is to transcend the human mind (which is just thought anyways). I myself have some quotes from some philosophers that will illustrate my point.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. --Romans 8:6 Paul of Tarsus
To be spiritually minded is to transcend thought which makes the carnal mind/desire for sensual and material pleasures. To do this we must identify with Spirit itself for that is the only way to be spiritually minded. As Jesus explains:
God is a Spirit; and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth
Sorry for lack of reference point in the bible but I assure you it is in their for I just wrote quotes of Jesus and put "-----Jesus Christ" instead of the location in the bible. The question arises then, "Where is spirit?" Jesus answers this too:
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
My interpretation of this is:
You dont directly experience God on a conscious level because you lack the appropriate knowledge and teachings to learn how to experience It. But you are experiencing God directly even if you dont know it because God is all things including youself and if you arnt experiencing it consciously now then you will later for God is your true nature.
(this is only my opinion but if you have read this far please please bare with me)
We know God dwells within us because as Jesus explains:
The Kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Where is God? In His Kingdom. Where is His Kingdom? Within you. What is God? Spirit. How does He want us to worship Him? In spirit. Therefore spirit is within us and we must identify with it if we are to be in it to worship God who is in it. If we dont then that means we are identifying with our flesh and worshipping God through our carnal mind. This is undesirable and ought to be avoided if we can help it because as Paul of Tarsus says:
". . . . because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God."
So the carnal or rational mind cannot know God directly....but we can transcend it and identify with spirit which is God itself. This means that when we identify with God/Spirit we are one with God. Many people think this is "BLASPHEME!@!@! What arrogance! " but as a quote from the christian mystic text The Philokalia explains:
A soul pure in God is God.
Many will say to this "Blaspheme! Christian mystics are no authority on God only Jesus was and ever will be". From this point we must appeal with the words of Christ when he said:
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendethrain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Where is the Father? In heaven. Where is Heaven? Within you. God is Spirit and Spirit dwelleth in you, and God is perfect and therefore if you rise above the carnal mind (death) you to can be perfect like God but only God can be perfect hence when you are perfect as your Father which is in heaven is perfect then you must be God. It is from this realization that Jesus discovered that:
I and my Father are one.
Because Jesus was enlightened by such direct knowledge he had the right to teach such knowledge the best he could to us. It is only from teachers like Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Sri Ramana Maharshi etc that we can truly trust and have faith in because their teachings come from direct experience with the cosmos at its purest level. Otherwise if such teachers havn't had such direct experience then they are still blind because they identify with the carnal or mind of the flesh. This creates the predicament as said by Jesus:
If one blind person leads another blind person, both of them will fall into a hole.
Jesus wasnt blind. And his teachings were that of practicing unconditional love towards all because all is God. But you can only love all unconditonally when you yourself become unconditioned.When you have cleansed yourself of the carnal mind you will realize that you too and the Father are one.And to do that one must identify with spirit which is transcendental and unconditoned and not the carnal mind which is full of desires and lusts. Jesus expresses this crudely when he says:
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
Anyway man this is what I think and have faith in. I cant force it on anyone nor do I want to because it is only a belief and as we have established belief isnt truth beause belief is opinion and opinion cant be truth for the very reason that it is an opinion.
As a fellow from unexplained mysteries has said here before:
If you believe you know something, then the only thing you know is your belief.
If this is the case then direct experience has not taken place. For an example if I were to be told by a trusting friend that the sky is blue then the chances are I would believe him. If he had to show me the sky for me to see for myself then I would see that the sky is blue and then know it beyond doubt.
Had to go over some grammar and hence the edit.
I agree....true knowledge cannot be known by the human mind,hence the only way to have such knowledge is to transcend the human mind (which is just thought anyways). I myself have some quotes from some philosophers that will illustrate my point.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. --Romans 8:6 Paul of Tarsus
To be spiritually minded is to transcend thought which makes the carnal mind/desire for sensual and material pleasures. To do this we must identify with Spirit itself for that is the only way to be spiritually minded. As Jesus explains:
God is a Spirit; and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth
Sorry for lack of reference point in the bible but I assure you it is in their for I just wrote quotes of Jesus and put "-----Jesus Christ" instead of the location in the bible. The question arises then, "Where is spirit?" Jesus answers this too:
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
My interpretation of this is:
You dont directly experience God on a conscious level because you lack the appropriate knowledge and teachings to learn how to experience It. But you are experiencing God directly even if you dont know it because God is all things including youself and if you arnt experiencing it consciously now then you will later for God is your true nature.
(this is only my opinion but if you have read this far please please bare with me)We know God dwells within us because as Jesus explains:
The Kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Where is God? In His Kingdom. Where is His Kingdom? Within you. What is God? Spirit. How does He want us to worship Him? In spirit. Therefore spirit is within us and we must identify with it if we are to be in it to worship God who is in it. If we dont then that means we are identifying with our flesh and worshipping God through our carnal mind. This is undesirable and ought to be avoided if we can help it because as Paul of Tarsus says:
". . . . because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God."
So the carnal or rational mind cannot know God directly....but we can transcend it and identify with spirit which is God itself. This means that when we identify with God/Spirit we are one with God. Many people think this is "BLASPHEME!@!@! What arrogance! " but as a quote from the christian mystic text The Philokalia explains:
A soul pure in God is God.
Many will say to this "Blaspheme! Christian mystics are no authority on God only Jesus was and ever will be". From this point we must appeal with the words of Christ when he said:
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendethrain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Where is the Father? In heaven. Where is Heaven? Within you. God is Spirit and Spirit dwelleth in you, and God is perfect and therefore if you rise above the carnal mind (death) you to can be perfect like God but only God can be perfect hence when you are perfect as your Father which is in heaven is perfect then you must be God. It is from this realization that Jesus discovered that:
I and my Father are one.
Because Jesus was enlightened by such direct knowledge he had the right to teach such knowledge the best he could to us. It is only from teachers like Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Sri Ramana Maharshi etc that we can truly trust and have faith in because their teachings come from direct experience with the cosmos at its purest level. Otherwise if such teachers havn't had such direct experience then they are still blind because they identify with the carnal or mind of the flesh. This creates the predicament as said by Jesus:
If one blind person leads another blind person, both of them will fall into a hole.
Jesus wasnt blind. And his teachings were that of practicing unconditional love towards all because all is God. But you can only love all unconditonally when you yourself become unconditioned.When you have cleansed yourself of the carnal mind you will realize that you too and the Father are one.And to do that one must identify with spirit which is transcendental and unconditoned and not the carnal mind which is full of desires and lusts. Jesus expresses this crudely when he says:
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
Anyway man this is what I think and have faith in. I cant force it on anyone nor do I want to because it is only a belief and as we have established belief isnt truth beause belief is opinion and opinion cant be truth for the very reason that it is an opinion.
As a fellow from unexplained mysteries has said here before:
If you believe you know something, then the only thing you know is your belief.
If this is the case then direct experience has not taken place. For an example if I were to be told by a trusting friend that the sky is blue then the chances are I would believe him. If he had to show me the sky for me to see for myself then I would see that the sky is blue and then know it beyond doubt.
Had to go over some grammar and hence the edit.
U continue to amaze me at the depth of ur understanding. In spot, it seemed as though u were getting into the whole "we can be God" thing......maybe I misinterpreted? THis is truly wonderful, though I haven't had a chance to look those verses
I don't believe heaven is within you either, as it is a solid physical place (as described variously throughout scripture). I do believe there are instances where we can transcend the human mind....but i also believe that our human mind (since, as paul says, we are slaves to our bodies and the old self) will protrude in times and disrupt thin. You seem to deal only in absolutes; God is absolute, yes. But the things of this world (including ourselves) are not. I also believe that our goal is perfection, but that no other man besides Christ could or will achieve it......if this was so, Christ's purity could be seen as undermined. I'm just layin out some theological theory....as theology will be my major. Have fun! 
QUOTE(TBoneMinister @ Jun 24 2007, 12:07 PM)
U continue to amaze me at the depth of ur understanding. In spot, it seemed as though u were getting into the whole "we can be God" thing......maybe I misinterpreted?THis is truly wonderful, though I haven't had a chance to look those verses I don't believe heaven is within you either, as it is a solid physical place (as described variously throughout scripture). I do believe there are instances where we can transcend the human mind....but i also believe that our human mind (since, as paul says, we are slaves to our bodies and the old self) will protrude in times and disrupt thin. You seem to deal only in absolutes; God is absolute, yes. But the things of this world (including ourselves) are not. I also believe that our goal is perfection, but that no other man besides Christ could or will achieve it......if this was so, Christ's purity could be seen as undermined. I'm just layin out some theological theory....as theology will be my major. Have fun!
I don't believe heaven is within you either, as it is a solid physical place (as described variously throughout scripture). I do believe there are instances where we can transcend the human mind....but i also believe that our human mind (since, as paul says, we are slaves to our bodies and the old self) will protrude in times and disrupt thin. You seem to deal only in absolutes; God is absolute, yes. But the things of this world (including ourselves) are not. I also believe that our goal is perfection, but that no other man besides Christ could or will achieve it......if this was so, Christ's purity could be seen as undermined. I'm just layin out some theological theory....as theology will be my major. Have fun! Yes my point is that utimately our true nature is God and the way of realizing that is through humility, detachment and charity. This undermine Christ's purity because it is a very difficult state of being to achieve and so when someone like Christ or Buddha do achieve it, it leaves a big impact on all those within radius.
But the message of these sages isnt that greatness is vouchsafed exclusively for them but that all can achieve it if they strive hard enough.
QUOTE(dlv @ Jun 22 2007, 04:44 PM)
If you don't mind, would you care to elaborate, or share your experience(s) with us?
Peace.
Peace.
Regular readers of this forum may be getting tired of hearing them. Most have been previuosly posted and I think would be accessible through my info page, under my posts (there are a lot to search through). If not, I can PM some of them to you.
QUOTE(Mr Walker @ Jun 24 2007, 11:14 PM)
If not, I can PM some of them to you.
Please do, would love to read it.
I'm not religious, but you really cant say peoples beliefs and faiths are meaningless. Maybe too you, but not to them.
QUOTE(Primeval @ Jun 25 2007, 04:01 AM)
I'm not religious, but you really cant say peoples beliefs and faiths are meaningless. Maybe too you, but not to them.
Yeah, what i wrote was....Belief and Faith is meaningless .......[b]in the eyes of God, Truth or whatever it is you refer them to.
And yes, that is to me and i dont need to believe in my self, for i am self evident.
Peace.
nn23
edit: excellent profile quote btw
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jun 23 2007, 02:41 AM)
DLV, this reply was truely an earnest and sincere peice of writing, it was a pleasure to read.
Thank you. And peace to you.
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jun 24 2007, 08:17 PM)
Yeah, what i wrote was....Belief and Faith is meaningless .......[b]in the eyes of God, Truth or whatever it is you refer them to.
And yes, that is to me and i dont need to believe in my self, for i am self evident.
Peace.
nn23
edit: excellent profile quote btw
And yes, that is to me and i dont need to believe in my self, for i am self evident.
Peace.
nn23
edit: excellent profile quote btw
Ya i was the first person to say it too. When i die, people will use it as their quotes. And it will have my name next to it, And i will live for ever.
Nice read. Thank you all.
I personally think enlightenent is the key; once enlightened you don't need to have believe or faith in your vocabulary...you just know.
I am not a religious person per se. I believe religions are a man-made way of practicing ones own spirituality; each relective upon ones own cultural traditions.
I hate the fact that wars are fought over religious beliefs. That makes me sick to my stomach. To me, there is no right or wrong religion.
To me what is important is leading a healthy, moral and ethical life.
Just my thoughts...carry on.
I personally think enlightenent is the key; once enlightened you don't need to have believe or faith in your vocabulary...you just know.
I am not a religious person per se. I believe religions are a man-made way of practicing ones own spirituality; each relective upon ones own cultural traditions.
I hate the fact that wars are fought over religious beliefs. That makes me sick to my stomach. To me, there is no right or wrong religion.
To me what is important is leading a healthy, moral and ethical life.
Just my thoughts...carry on.
QUOTE(brave_new_world @ Jun 24 2007, 02:49 AM)
Yes my point is that utimately our true nature is God and the way of realizing that is through humility, detachment and charity. This undermine Christ's purity because it is a very difficult state of being to achieve and so when someone like Christ or Buddha do achieve it, it leaves a big impact on all those within radius.
But the message of these sages isnt that greatness is vouchsafed exclusively for them but that all can achieve it if they strive hard enough.
But the message of these sages isnt that greatness is vouchsafed exclusively for them but that all can achieve it if they strive hard enough.
Still been busy.....haven't had a chance to look for the verses, but I'll post them soon. Thanx for bein patient.
QUOTE(TBoneMinister @ Jun 23 2007, 09:52 AM)
Ur replies r fascinating to me! I cannot promise I will never doubt, for the human mind is unpredictable and wavering. As I said, I will look for the scriptures on belief, but my mind calls for sleep at this time. You don't have to believe if you know, but u can. For some reason, the mind is comforted in your assurance of the knowlege u may possess. As i said, true knowlege may not be capable by the human mind. I do not choose btwn them, but do them both (there's the paradox, for it is true) . And though u would think a direct experience would smash all doubt, the human mind tends to doubt even the surest of knowlege, which surely u should know.
Doubting is natural, as long as you haven't experienced God on a one-on-one basis. The thing is: If God shows Itself to you, would you know It? A great mystic once told me about "paradise lost," and to cut a long story short, one must (sometimes) lose one's way (or some of things one hold so dearly) before one could really appreciate/see perfection. The film ONE MAGIC CHRISTMAS is a simple example of this. Another one is ALAKAZAM THE GREAT, an adaptation of "Journey to the West."
On the other hand, you made yourself completely open to God. And no doubt, God has heard your innermost desire. You are a minister, after all, are you not??? Therefore, something in you is completely ready and waiting.
Mystics and saints have said that if one is totally ready, one will experience what needed to be experienced, and this includes psychic experiences as well, such the "serpent power," "expansion," direct view of the afterlife and back again, and so on. Since death is such a big deal on Earth, then one must experience it directly. One must experience the resurrection of the flesh, and feel what that's like, to feel what it's like for the body to regenerate itself again.
One step at a time. And all in good time.
QUOTE(dlv @ Jun 25 2007, 01:04 AM)
Doubting is natural, as long as you haven't experienced God on a one-on-one basis. The thing is: If God shows Itself to you, would you know It? A great mystic once told me about "paradise lost," and to cut a long story short, one must (sometimes) lose one's way (or some of things one hold so dearly) before one could really appreciate/see perfection. The film ONE MAGIC CHRISTMAS is a simple example of this. Another one is ALAKAZAM THE GREAT, an adaptation of "Journey to the West."
On the other hand, you made yourself completely open to God. And no doubt, God has heard your innermost desire. You are a minister, after all, are you not??? Therefore, something in you is completely ready and waiting.
Mystics and saints have said that if one is totally ready, one will experience what needed to be experienced, and this includes psychic experiences as well, such the "serpent power," "expansion," direct view of the afterlife and back again, and so on. Since death is such a big deal on Earth, then one must experience it directly. One must experience the resurrection of the flesh, and feel what that's like, to feel what it's like for the body to regenerate itself again.
One step at a time. And all in good time.
On the other hand, you made yourself completely open to God. And no doubt, God has heard your innermost desire. You are a minister, after all, are you not??? Therefore, something in you is completely ready and waiting.
Mystics and saints have said that if one is totally ready, one will experience what needed to be experienced, and this includes psychic experiences as well, such the "serpent power," "expansion," direct view of the afterlife and back again, and so on. Since death is such a big deal on Earth, then one must experience it directly. One must experience the resurrection of the flesh, and feel what that's like, to feel what it's like for the body to regenerate itself again.
One step at a time. And all in good time.
I have dealt with God in a one-on-one basis....which is why i say i will probably never doubt again. Yes, i am a minister, a pastor in fact. We speak often, and i often see His hand. The only reason probably is in there is because the mind is sensitive to trama. If there was something devestatingly tromatizing in my life, i could not predict the outcome of my thought pattern for a split-second and say that my mind would not try to question my spirit which is lodged in truth. My point is that the physical mind is faulty and not capable of true knowlege while the spirit is the opposite. Though they are one within me, the are at the same seperate......look at Paul. He had a direct experience with Christ, no? Yet he found himself doing things he knew were against God and his heart and soul were grievous. His physical mind inhibited with the nature of sin caused his worldy self to delight in sin, while his spirit, pure in Christ, was revolted. I say this only to show that they are indeed seperate. One could look at it like the Paradox of the trinity.....God thte Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are 3 seperate (they each have their own jobs, Christ was seperated physically from the Father on earth and is described sitting at His side in heaven, the Holy spirit filling the heart of man) but are 1 (John 1:1 along with many others). So are the physical mind, the heart, and the soul in my view.
I enjoy your posts TBone. Very informative and insightful.
QUOTE(Thozzman @ Jun 25 2007, 02:21 AM)
I enjoy your posts TBone. Very informative and insightful.
Thanx. I'd hope so....a pastor who is neither is in trouble
. Didn't i just see u in another forum?
QUOTE(TBoneMinister @ Jun 25 2007, 07:00 AM)
I have dealt with God in a one-on-one basis....which is why i say i will probably never doubt again.
Should I assume that you had a direct conversation with God, God is revealed, God manifested Itself to you like the prophets of old? Or is your "one-on-one basis" a hunch, what you feel, gut instinct, "being guided by the Holy Spirit" kind-of thing?
QUOTE(TBoneMinister @ Jun 25 2007, 07:00 AM)
My point is that the physical mind is faulty and not capable of true knowlege while the spirit is the opposite.
There is a big difference between mind versus consciousness. Consciousness is very much aware even after death. Mind is strictly Earthbound knowledge, and it is the main reason why one doubts constantly. Death is a great dividing factor, therefore. And one must experience death and back to the flesh again, to truly know the difference between the two: mind versus consciousness.
It's late, and I must sleep.
Good night for now.
Peace.
QUOTE(dlv @ Jun 25 2007, 02:24 AM)
Should I assume that you had a direct conversation with God, God is revealed, God manifested Itself to you like the prophets of old? Or is your "one-on-one basis" a hunch, what you feel, gut instinct, "being guided by the Holy Spirit" kind-of thing?
There is a big difference between mind versus consciousness. Consciousness is very much aware even after death. Mind is strictly Earthbound knowledge, and it is the main reason why one doubts constantly. Death is a great dividing factor, therefore. And one must experience death and back to the flesh again, to truly know the difference between the two: mind versus consciousness.
It's late, and I must sleep.
Good night for now.
Peace.
There is a big difference between mind versus consciousness. Consciousness is very much aware even after death. Mind is strictly Earthbound knowledge, and it is the main reason why one doubts constantly. Death is a great dividing factor, therefore. And one must experience death and back to the flesh again, to truly know the difference between the two: mind versus consciousness.
It's late, and I must sleep.
Good night for now.
Peace.
In a way, u kinda proved what I was saying about doubt. The mind doues doubt constantly, contrary to the spirirt (or in ur terms consiousness). If ur asking if I've literally seen Him, then no. I have heard His voice and seen direct answer to prayer (like the answer happening right after the "Amen" on MULTIPLE occasions). Goodnight to you , and God Bless.
QUOTE(TBoneMinister @ Jun 25 2007, 08:00 AM)
I have dealt with God in a one-on-one basis....which is why i say i will probably never doubt again. Yes, i am a minister, a pastor in fact. We speak often, and i often see His hand. The only reason probably is in there is because the mind is sensitive to trama. If there was something devestatingly tromatizing in my life, i could not predict the outcome of my thought pattern for a split-second and say that my mind would not try to question my spirit which is lodged in truth. My point is that the physical mind is faulty and not capable of true knowlege while the spirit is the opposite. Though they are one within me, the are at the same seperate......look at Paul. He had a direct experience with Christ, no? Yet he found himself doing things he knew were against God and his heart and soul were grievous. His physical mind inhibited with the nature of sin caused his worldy self to delight in sin, while his spirit, pure in Christ, was revolted. I say this only to show that they are indeed seperate. One could look at it like the Paradox of the trinity.....God thte Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are 3 seperate (they each have their own jobs, Christ was seperated physically from the Father on earth and is described sitting at His side in heaven, the Holy spirit filling the heart of man) but are 1 (John 1:1 along with many others). So are the physical mind, the heart, and the soul in my view.
I really liked this post TBoneMinister, Thankyou. I really agree with many of the complements people have given you, i think it is wonderful that you are so willing to explore something that appears to challenge aspects of your faith, it says alot! QUOTE(dlv @ Jun 25 2007, 08:24 AM)
Should I assume that you had a direct conversation with God, God is revealed, God manifested Itself to you like the prophets of old? Or is your "one-on-one basis" a hunch, what you feel, gut instinct, "being guided by the Holy Spirit" kind-of thing?
There is a big difference between mind versus consciousness. Consciousness is very much aware even after death. Mind is strictly Earthbound knowledge, and it is the main reason why one doubts constantly. Death is a great dividing factor, therefore. And one must experience death and back to the flesh again, to truly know the difference between the two: mind versus consciousness.
It's late, and I must sleep.
Good night for now.
Peace.
There is a big difference between mind versus consciousness. Consciousness is very much aware even after death. Mind is strictly Earthbound knowledge, and it is the main reason why one doubts constantly. Death is a great dividing factor, therefore. And one must experience death and back to the flesh again, to truly know the difference between the two: mind versus consciousness.
It's late, and I must sleep.
Good night for now.
Peace.
QUOTE(TBoneMinister)
In a way, u kinda proved what I was saying about doubt. The mind doues doubt constantly, contrary to the spirirt (or in ur terms consiousness).
Mind versus consciousness ....i had this thought in another thread the other day, it tickled me actually. We say that the human mind contradicts that of the soul bringing doubt but how can doubt be possible, this would imply the mind to be....more powerful than infinity???
so, mind versus consciousness? ....this would be how the mind percieves it
NICE ONE!
nn23
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jun 25 2007, 08:49 AM)
so, mind versus consciousness? ....this would be how the mind percieves it
While on Earth, and while the mind has not experienced the afterlife, MIND versus CONSCIOUSNESS is still the order of the day. In a way, nn23 is right about her statement, "this would be how the mind perceives it"; HOWEVER, after consciousness comes back to Earthly reality after its sojourn in the afterlife, an interesting transformation happens to the mind (and other bodily functions)... I've met several scientists in the past, and Unlike part of their belief system which states that "this is it, the mind doesn't linger on after death...," the mind, as consciousness, does linger on, 300% guaranteed. Therefore, the mind, for now, is strictly earthbound if...; it is still ignorant of the reality of life after death. Only through direct experience of the afterlife that one could dispel this doubt, could have this massive transformation (while in the body again or I should say, "resurrected body").
Same thing with God: Only through one-on-one "conversation with God, God is revealed, God manifested Itself to you like the prophets of old" could one get over all doubting. One simply cannot just think through this, it's not the same, thinking has nothing to do with it. Direct revelation is the key. I could only assume (since I've never had this experience myself, or at least I don't think so) that one would get reprogrammed by God, if this event does occur. Therefore, a new you, a transformed human-being will emerge because of this.
One simply cannot move from point A to point B without fully appreciating point A. One must ACCEPT one's current reality completely, especially since it is a "concrete" map to get there, I believe, even if it's based on several learned assumptions (from books, parent' teachings, religious and metaphysical teachings, life events, and so on). Our life is all we have to go by. One must be honest to one's self, accept one's limitations, and fulfill one's sincere desires. And hopefully, move on to the next step.
Then again, I could be completely off since I've never had this direct experience... True, I work with Kundalini energy practically on a moment to moment basis, and I've experienced that "expansion" on many many occasions, and experienced otherworldly situations..., but they're definitely NOT the same as TOTAL REVELATION. Simply denying things and lying to yourself won't award you to having this direct experience with the Divine.
On the other hand, asking God to enter one's life is more than a great start, in my book (diary).
And last, most people assume that there is a soul, that soul is consciousness itself, the soul is this, the soul is that, consciousness is real, and then not. If what I've been taught since day one of my existence has a grain of truth, and that my experiences are meant to free me, then one day, I will find whatever it is I need to find. I'm sure. But right now, I have my sincere desires to fulfill. Point A to point B, hopefully. Then again, this is merely my map, especially since I've never experienced God directly, "like the prophets of old" per se.
QUOTE(TBoneMinister @ Jun 25 2007, 07:00 AM)
look at Paul. He had a direct experience with Christ, no?
That's debatable, and it's been debated over and over again. And it's really irrelevant in my life now to even go there. What I care most is now, not the archaic past... I've studied the past too long, and now, I want to know my present. If God is eternal perfection, then IT is present today, right now. If others have seen God, why can't we??? We are all equal in the eyes of God, after all. True, I still have my sincere desires to fulfill... But you, pastor, you are TOTALLY ready and waiting. I have no doubt that you will get this chance. There is a reason why you are led to this website, conversing with earnest, sincere people willing to share their spiritual life's adventures with you.
QUOTE(TBoneMinister @ Jun 25 2007, 07:00 AM)
.....God thte Father, Son, and Holy Ghost ...
True, I'm a Christian by heart, my brand of Christianity if anything else. And yes, I believe that there was a very powerful being who walked this Earth..., and God, alone, made this possible, especiall since Christianity is the most powerful religion in the world today. Earthly facts and histories are easily obscured, but the fact remains that Christianity is the most powerful religion today -- and that's an Earthly reality to be reckoned with. It is not by accident, oh no. People are looking for signs, and this is one great sign of our time, if all else fails! True, early Christians did their PR thing, back in the days, but PR alone will certainly not secure one's future, especially being a major power at that, if God did not will it so. I deal with PR all the time, it is part of my job, so I should know this.
I may have said that I divorced myself from Christianity at one time. BUT, my life, my pilgrimage, is only leading me into full circle -- back to Christianity, my personal relationship with Christ incarnate, God the Almighty. My brand of Christianity.
QUOTE(dlv @ Jun 25 2007, 12:29 PM)
That's debatable, and it's been debated over and over again. And it's really irrelevant in my life now to even go there. What I care most is now, not the archaic past... I've studied the past too long, and now, I want to know my present. If God is eternal perfection, then IT is present today, right now. If others have seen God, why can't we??? We are all equal in the eyes of God, after all. True, I still have my sincere desires to fulfill... But you, pastor, you are TOTALLY ready and waiting. I have no doubt that you will get this chance. There is a reason why you are led to this website, conversing with earnest, sincere people willing to share their spiritual life's adventures with you.
True, I'm a Christian by heart, my brand of Christianity if anything else. And yes, I believe that there was a very powerful being who walked this Earth..., and God, alone, made this possible, especiall since Christianity is the most powerful religion in the world today. Earthly facts and histories are easily obscured, but the fact remains that Christianity is the most powerful religion today -- and that's an Earthly reality to be reckoned with. It is not by accident, oh no. People are looking for signs, and this is one great sign of our time, if all else fails! True, early Christians did their PR thing, back in the days, but PR alone will certainly not secure one's future, especially being a major power at that, if God did not will it so. I deal with PR all the time, it is part of my job, so I should know this.
I may have said that I divorced myself from Christianity at one time. BUT, my life, my pilgrimage, is only leading me into full circle -- back to Christianity, my personal relationship with Christ incarnate, God the Almighty. My brand of Christianity.
True, I'm a Christian by heart, my brand of Christianity if anything else. And yes, I believe that there was a very powerful being who walked this Earth..., and God, alone, made this possible, especiall since Christianity is the most powerful religion in the world today. Earthly facts and histories are easily obscured, but the fact remains that Christianity is the most powerful religion today -- and that's an Earthly reality to be reckoned with. It is not by accident, oh no. People are looking for signs, and this is one great sign of our time, if all else fails! True, early Christians did their PR thing, back in the days, but PR alone will certainly not secure one's future, especially being a major power at that, if God did not will it so. I deal with PR all the time, it is part of my job, so I should know this.
I may have said that I divorced myself from Christianity at one time. BUT, my life, my pilgrimage, is only leading me into full circle -- back to Christianity, my personal relationship with Christ incarnate, God the Almighty. My brand of Christianity.
I found your reply very interesting (that's a good thing comming from me
). I do believe that it is still possible to see God, as He is the same God always. The blinding of Paul on the road to Demascus was a direct encounter with God; I don't see how it can be debated, and studying the past gains application to the present and the future...the journey u currently embark upon. I didn't quite see the point of ur second paragraph. THough it did contain great thoughts and truths, I saw no correlation within itself or to the qoute which u replied to.
QUOTE(TBoneMinister @ Jun 26 2007, 03:19 AM)
he blinding of Paul on the road to Demascus was a direct encounter with God; I don't see how it can be debated
Some could easily argue that Paul made it all up, etc., encountering Jesus, et al. And I really don't care about the political factions between the Apostles (and Paul not being one and yet had SO MUCH to say, etc.).Then again, I'm not interested in Paul's teachings...
QUOTE(TBoneMinister @ Jun 26 2007, 03:19 AM)
and studying the past gains application to the present and the future...the journey u currently embark upon. I didn't quite see the point of ur second paragraph. THough it did contain great thoughts and truths
As I said before, "I've studied the past too long, and now, I want to know my present..." And yes, it's inevitable for me to include "some," but not all.
Perhaps during one of our conversations, you assumed that I'm a practicing Christian, non-stop... Perhaps you've never read my previous posts (before our meeting)... In reality, I just recently accepted Jesus Christ as a Lord and Savior again, just a day before I started conversing with you, interestingly enough. You didn't quite see the point because I was tying things up, my past to the now, so that there's a sense of continuity for me and for the people reading my posts. This is really a MAJOR event in my life, you have no idea; however, my brand of Christianity is a very selective one (especially since the Bible has been tampered and obscured by human beings). I basically don't have an interest in another person's take on this matter. Unlike the First Council of Constantinople, mine is a private, personal affair (unless somebody finds my diary one day..., and that's beyond my control). For one thing, the more "far out" the story about Jesus, the more likely I would include it in my new belief system. That's as far as I'm willing to share. Jesus Christ is a God, after all, and that fact has been proven (to me at least), especially since Christianity is THE most powerful force in this world. Surely, the Holy Spirit smacked me in the head with this fact, no doubt! I could only be so grateful. Besides, Christianity is my root, my forefathers' religion, what they've fought and died for (so that we could all converse via the internet and have the pleasure to go to church, etcetera).
Gosh! its been a while, here ya go 
What is there to reprogramme... God?...God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 1John 4:13-18
Where can a map take you other than somewhere else on the map…as I always quote… The map is not the territory ~ Alfred Korzybski.
God is all around, within and without. ... When one breathes, one knows him as breath; when one speaks, one knows him as speech; when one sees one knows him as the eye; when one hears, one knows him as the ear; when one thinks, one knows him as the mind...(Brihadaranyaka Upanishad).
He is everywhere and is everything! There is no destination to get to Him, He is already there. This is why belief and faith are both meaningless, why believe in something that is self evident?
Is consciousness not experience enough?
mmm, this was an interesting post DVL. I think your reference here to the map is a very good example of the meaninglessness of belief. Belief in and following a map stands as an obstacle to the experience of the territory. God is not a destination, He is the territory itself.
----------------------------------
look at Paul. He had a direct experience with Christ, no?
That's debatable, and it's been debated over and over again. And it's really irrelevant in my life now to even go there. What I care most is now, not the archaic past... I've studied the past too long, and now, I want to know my present. If God is eternal perfection, then IT is present today, right now. If others have seen God, why can't we??? We are all equal in the eyes of God, after all. True, I still have my sincere desires to fulfill... But you, pastor, you are TOTALLY ready and waiting. I have no doubt that you will get this chance. There is a reason why you are led to this website, conversing with earnest, sincere people willing to share their spiritual life's adventures with you.
True, I'm a Christian by heart, my brand of Christianity if anything else. And yes, I believe that there was a very powerful being who walked this Earth..., and God, alone, made this possible, especiall since Christianity is the most powerful religion in the world today. Earthly facts and histories are easily obscured, but the fact remains that Christianity is the most powerful religion today -- and that's an Earthly reality to be reckoned with. It is not by accident, oh no. People are looking for signs, and this is one great sign of our time, if all else fails! True, early Christians did their PR thing, back in the days, but PR alone will certainly not secure one's future, especially being a major power at that, if God did not will it so. I deal with PR all the time, it is part of my job, so I should know this.
I may have said that I divorced myself from Christianity at one time. BUT, my life, my pilgrimage, is only leading me into full circle -- back to Christianity, my personal relationship with Christ incarnate, God the Almighty. My brand of Christianity.
BLIMEY!!
Most powerful to what context? Money? Popularity? Influence?
I do not think it makes any difference how powerful Christianity is. All the power encompassed from all these peoples faith and belief means nothing in the eyes of God for God is love...Infinity...everything!. If Christianity were so powerful, surely the world would be full of love? But this is then contradicted by the discriminations of good vs bad...sin....duality.
Christianity professes God infinate to be love and within everything but then contradicts this by proclaiming a criteria for that which is infinate
Studying the past is a point of reference for those who rely upon justifications for their beliefs...which are after all...meaningless...
Once one has learnt the truths and meanings communicated, what need is there for their reference?...communication...desire of the experiencer to project their understanding....surely if they truely understood, what would be the need in its projection, what would there be to prove if there was only love?
----------------------------------
he blinding of Paul on the road to Demascus was a direct encounter with God; I don't see how it can be debatedSome could easily argue that Paul made it all up, etc., encountering Jesus, et al. And I really don't care about the political factions between the Apostles (and Paul not being one and yet had SO MUCH to say, etc.).Then again, I'm not interested in Paul's teachings...
As I said before, "I've studied the past too long, and now, I want to know my present..." And yes, it's inevitable for me to include "some," but not all.
Perhaps during one of our conversations, you assumed that I'm a practicing Christian, non-stop... Perhaps you've never read my previous posts (before our meeting)... In reality, I just recently accepted Jesus Christ as a Lord and Savior again, just a day before I started conversing with you, interestingly enough. You didn't quite see the point because I was tying things up, my past to the now, so that there's a sense of continuity for me and for the people reading my posts. This is really a MAJOR event in my life, you have no idea; however, my brand of Christianity is a very selective one (especially since the Bible has been tampered and obscured by human beings).
If God is infinate how can he be bound to selectivity? Infinity can not be bound or divided.
.....The Bible is itself a tampering and obscurity of reality, it is a record and not the experience.
You said before that you had no care for the past, but yet what is it that qualifies Christianity in your view to be the most powerful force in the world? Power is for those who desire it.
NICE ONE guys
nn23
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jun 25 2007, 09:49 AM)
so, mind versus consciousness? ....this would be how the mind percieves it
QUOTE(dlv @ Jun 25 2007, 05:08 PM)
While on Earth, and while the mind has not experienced the afterlife, MIND versus CONSCIOUSNESS is still the order of the day. In a way, nn23 is right about her statement, "this would be how the mind perceives it"; HOWEVER, after consciousness comes back to Earthly reality after its sojourn in the afterlife, an interesting transformation happens to the mind (and other bodily functions)... I've met several scientists in the past, and Unlike part of their belief system which states that "this is it, the mind doesn't linger on after death...," the mind, as consciousness, does linger on, 300% guaranteed. Therefore, the mind, for now, is strictly earthbound if...; it is still ignorant of the reality of life after death. Only through direct experience of the afterlife that one could dispel this doubt, could have this massive transformation (while in the body again or I should say, "resurrected body").
Same thing with God: Only through one-on-one "conversation with God, God is revealed, God manifested Itself to you like the prophets of old" could one get over all doubting. One simply cannot just think through this, it's not the same, thinking has nothing to do with it. Direct revelation is the key. I could only assume (since I've never had this experience myself, or at least I don't think so) that one would get reprogrammed by God, if this event does occur. Therefore, a new you, a transformed human-being will emerge because of this.
Same thing with God: Only through one-on-one "conversation with God, God is revealed, God manifested Itself to you like the prophets of old" could one get over all doubting. One simply cannot just think through this, it's not the same, thinking has nothing to do with it. Direct revelation is the key. I could only assume (since I've never had this experience myself, or at least I don't think so) that one would get reprogrammed by God, if this event does occur. Therefore, a new you, a transformed human-being will emerge because of this.
What is there to reprogramme... God?...God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 1John 4:13-18
QUOTE(dlv @ Jun 25 2007, 05:08 PM)
One simply cannot move from point A to point B without fully appreciating point A. One must ACCEPT one's current reality completely, especially since it is a "concrete" map to get there, I believe, even if it's based on several learned assumptions (from books, parent' teachings, religious and metaphysical teachings, life events, and so on). Our life is all we have to go by. One must be honest to one's self, accept one's limitations, and fulfill one's sincere desires. And hopefully, move on to the next step.
Where can a map take you other than somewhere else on the map…as I always quote… The map is not the territory ~ Alfred Korzybski.
God is all around, within and without. ... When one breathes, one knows him as breath; when one speaks, one knows him as speech; when one sees one knows him as the eye; when one hears, one knows him as the ear; when one thinks, one knows him as the mind...(Brihadaranyaka Upanishad).
He is everywhere and is everything! There is no destination to get to Him, He is already there. This is why belief and faith are both meaningless, why believe in something that is self evident?
QUOTE(dlv @ Jun 25 2007, 05:08 PM)
Then again, I could be completely off since I've never had this direct experience... True, I work with Kundalini energy practically on a moment to moment basis, and I've experienced that "expansion" on many many occasions, and experienced otherworldly situations..., but they're definitely NOT the same as TOTAL REVELATION. Simply denying things and lying to yourself won't award you to having this direct experience with the Divine.
Is consciousness not experience enough?QUOTE(dlv @ Jun 25 2007, 05:08 PM)
On the other hand, asking God to enter one's life is more than a great start, in my book (diary).
And last, most people assume that there is a soul, that soul is consciousness itself, the soul is this, the soul is that, consciousness is real, and then not. If what I've been taught since day one of my existence has a grain of truth, and that my experiences are meant to free me, then one day, I will find whatever it is I need to find. I'm sure. But right now, I have my sincere desires to fulfill. Point A to point B, hopefully. Then again, this is merely my map, especially since I've never experienced God directly, "like the prophets of old" per se.
And last, most people assume that there is a soul, that soul is consciousness itself, the soul is this, the soul is that, consciousness is real, and then not. If what I've been taught since day one of my existence has a grain of truth, and that my experiences are meant to free me, then one day, I will find whatever it is I need to find. I'm sure. But right now, I have my sincere desires to fulfill. Point A to point B, hopefully. Then again, this is merely my map, especially since I've never experienced God directly, "like the prophets of old" per se.
mmm, this was an interesting post DVL. I think your reference here to the map is a very good example of the meaninglessness of belief. Belief in and following a map stands as an obstacle to the experience of the territory. God is not a destination, He is the territory itself.
----------------------------------
QUOTE(dlv @ Jun 25 2007, 06:29 PM)
QUOTE
look at Paul. He had a direct experience with Christ, no?
That's debatable, and it's been debated over and over again. And it's really irrelevant in my life now to even go there. What I care most is now, not the archaic past... I've studied the past too long, and now, I want to know my present. If God is eternal perfection, then IT is present today, right now. If others have seen God, why can't we??? We are all equal in the eyes of God, after all. True, I still have my sincere desires to fulfill... But you, pastor, you are TOTALLY ready and waiting. I have no doubt that you will get this chance. There is a reason why you are led to this website, conversing with earnest, sincere people willing to share their spiritual life's adventures with you.
QUOTE
.....God thte Father, Son, and Holy Ghost ...
True, I'm a Christian by heart, my brand of Christianity if anything else. And yes, I believe that there was a very powerful being who walked this Earth..., and God, alone, made this possible, especiall since Christianity is the most powerful religion in the world today. Earthly facts and histories are easily obscured, but the fact remains that Christianity is the most powerful religion today -- and that's an Earthly reality to be reckoned with. It is not by accident, oh no. People are looking for signs, and this is one great sign of our time, if all else fails! True, early Christians did their PR thing, back in the days, but PR alone will certainly not secure one's future, especially being a major power at that, if God did not will it so. I deal with PR all the time, it is part of my job, so I should know this.
I may have said that I divorced myself from Christianity at one time. BUT, my life, my pilgrimage, is only leading me into full circle -- back to Christianity, my personal relationship with Christ incarnate, God the Almighty. My brand of Christianity.
BLIMEY!!
Most powerful to what context? Money? Popularity? Influence?
I do not think it makes any difference how powerful Christianity is. All the power encompassed from all these peoples faith and belief means nothing in the eyes of God for God is love...Infinity...everything!. If Christianity were so powerful, surely the world would be full of love? But this is then contradicted by the discriminations of good vs bad...sin....duality.
Christianity professes God infinate to be love and within everything but then contradicts this by proclaiming a criteria for that which is infinate
QUOTE( @ Jun 26 2007, 04:19 AM)
I found your reply very interesting (that's a good thing comming from me ). I do believe that it is still possible to see God, as He is the same God always. The blinding of Paul on the road to Demascus was a direct encounter with God; I don't see how it can be debated, and studying the past gains application to the present and the future...the journey u currently embark upon. I didn't quite see the point of ur second paragraph. THough it did contain great thoughts and truths, I saw no correlation within itself or to the qoute which u replied to.
). I do believe that it is still possible to see God, as He is the same God always. The blinding of Paul on the road to Demascus was a direct encounter with God; I don't see how it can be debated, and studying the past gains application to the present and the future...the journey u currently embark upon. I didn't quite see the point of ur second paragraph. THough it did contain great thoughts and truths, I saw no correlation within itself or to the qoute which u replied to.Studying the past is a point of reference for those who rely upon justifications for their beliefs...which are after all...meaningless...
Once one has learnt the truths and meanings communicated, what need is there for their reference?...communication...desire of the experiencer to project their understanding....surely if they truely understood, what would be the need in its projection, what would there be to prove if there was only love?
----------------------------------
QUOTE(dlv @ Jun 27 2007, 01:58 AM)
QUOTE(TBoneMinister @ Jun 26 2007)
he blinding of Paul on the road to Demascus was a direct encounter with God; I don't see how it can be debated
QUOTE
and studying the past gains application to the present and the future...the journey u currently embark upon. I didn't quite see the point of ur second paragraph. THough it did contain great thoughts and truths
As I said before, "I've studied the past too long, and now, I want to know my present..." And yes, it's inevitable for me to include "some," but not all.
Perhaps during one of our conversations, you assumed that I'm a practicing Christian, non-stop... Perhaps you've never read my previous posts (before our meeting)... In reality, I just recently accepted Jesus Christ as a Lord and Savior again, just a day before I started conversing with you, interestingly enough. You didn't quite see the point because I was tying things up, my past to the now, so that there's a sense of continuity for me and for the people reading my posts. This is really a MAJOR event in my life, you have no idea; however, my brand of Christianity is a very selective one (especially since the Bible has been tampered and obscured by human beings).
If God is infinate how can he be bound to selectivity? Infinity can not be bound or divided.
.....The Bible is itself a tampering and obscurity of reality, it is a record and not the experience.
QUOTE(dlv @ Jun 27 2007, 01:58 AM)
I basically don't have an interest in another person's take on this matter. Unlike the First Council of Constantinople, mine is a private, personal affair (unless somebody finds my diary one day..., and that's beyond my control). For one thing, the more "far out" the story about Jesus, the more likely I would include it in my new belief system. That's as far as I'm willing to share. Jesus Christ is a God, after all, and that fact has been proven (to me at least), especially since [/b]Christianity is THE most powerful force in this world[/b]. Surely, the Holy Spirit smacked me in the head with this fact, no doubt! I could only be so grateful. Besides, Christianity is my root, my forefathers' religion, what they've fought and died for (so that we could all converse via the internet and have the pleasure to go to church, etcetera).
You said before that you had no care for the past, but yet what is it that qualifies Christianity in your view to be the most powerful force in the world? Power is for those who desire it.
NICE ONE guys
nn23
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jul 2 2007, 10:55 AM)
it is a record and not the experience.
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jul 2 2007, 02:55 PM)
and God abides in him.[/u][/b] 1John 4:13-18
The map is not the territory
God is all around, within and without. ... When one breathes, one knows him as breath; when one speaks, one knows him as speech; when one sees one knows him as the eye; when one hears, one knows him as the ear; when one thinks, one knows him as the mind...(Brihadaranyaka Upanishad).
He is everywhere and is everything! There is no destination to get to Him, He is already there.
The map is not the territory
God is all around, within and without. ... When one breathes, one knows him as breath; when one speaks, one knows him as speech; when one sees one knows him as the eye; when one hears, one knows him as the ear; when one thinks, one knows him as the mind...(Brihadaranyaka Upanishad).
He is everywhere and is everything! There is no destination to get to Him, He is already there.
You assume that the soul, essence, and/or whatever the trendiest word to describe the indescrible nowadays is God. Tell that to me again when you come back from the grave..., if you're god (with a small "g").
You also assume that everything around you is God. "But that's okay." One always has the right to assume. BUT, I could only be honest to myself and say, "I don't know that." I could only go by my own, private, personal experience, not another person's take on the matter, not another book rhetoric, not another guru's tirade. The key for me is being honest to oneself, not following a hearsay. And I believe that everyone should do the same, be really honest to oneself. Then again, I don't care about forcing others to my belief system.
Therefore just like you, I have my assumptions too, and one of them is that I will have a view and one-on-one conversation with my God, as a Being, and this includes Jesus Christ. This is why I'm a Christian again. I want to see Him, It, Jesus Christ, not just my mind telling me that God is everywhere. I really don't care what most books tell other people. I believe in the promise of Jesus Christ.
God has to be revealed! And one day, I believe I will find out, and God only knows that I'm not ready for that, not yet at least. I'm here on Earth; therefore, it is not a mistake that I have things to do. And don't I know it.
One step at a time, at least for me -- one-on-one conversation with God and if there's more than that, then I'm always open to whatever happens, eventually, only after my sincere desires are fulfilled...
One step at a time.
You have your belief system, I have mine. See you in church.
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jul 2 2007, 02:55 PM)
Is consciousness not experience enough?Words, words, and more words. You know nn23, we, humans, deal so much with imperfect words, and there really is no correct word to describe anything so profound.
To me, one could only be certain about consciousness, that one is in consciousness mode, if one is not in the body, if the body is dead for at least three hours, brain dead without a beating heart. And then the body is revived again, a la resurrected body, and then share this "consciousness" story.
Die, come back, and tell us all about it. Apparently, Jesus did just that. True, that's debatable, but I BELIEVE, regardless!
Experience, on the other hand, is strictly earthbound. It doesn't have as much weight as TRUE consciousness. Although, one could certainly experience God on Earth, and I'm not talking about kundalini energy and "Expansion" either..., even though one should experience one's kundalini energy to get that out of the way. One should always satisfy one's curiousity. The kundalini energy is there to be experienced, besides. One could only benefit from it, and it doesn't make a Christian a pagan. Again, kundalini is just a word to describe the indescribable, what is God-given, like breathing and eating. If many people have experienced it, then why not all. It's a fun diversion, if anything else, and a great party conversation.
Seeing Jesus Christ, however, is THE excellent start, and usually this includes signs and wonders that one did see THE Christ. One simply cannot say, "Oh, I dreamed about Jesus Christ." Or, "I was guided by the voice of Jesus Christ." Other people will know if this actually took place, no doubt about that.
Again, words are very limited to the point of meaningless in the final scheme of things. Words are really meant for the mundane reality, never for the ABSOLUTE, nor the otherworldly, beyond this world. I could only go by my brand of Christian map. I want to see God and Jesus Christ one day, and then go from there. If there is more, then it's beyond me, and I'm sure I will be open to the unknown and unknowable by the mind.
One step at a time.
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jul 2 2007, 02:55 PM)
Most powerful to what context? Money? Popularity? Influence? I do not think it makes any difference how powerful Christianity is.
You always have the choice to think that way. I, on the other hand, could also go by the reality of this world, at the moment. Therefore, it makes a difference to me because I believe in signs. On the other hand, I'm not forcing people to believe in my findings. They're here for the taking. Again, I'm following my brand of Christianity. I'm definitely not a Catholic, nor an Anglican, and so on. Martin Luther created his own brand and many people lost their lives. Mine, at least, is a very private affair.
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jul 2 2007, 02:55 PM)
faith and belief means nothing in the eyes of God ...
You don't know that. Has God told you? If not, then don't put words into God's mouth.
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jul 2 2007, 02:55 PM)
If Christianity were so powerful, surely the world would be full of love?
The world is full of love, you just have to see it that way, and surely, this perfect world machinery will polish you to see it so. Hence, my God is love and then some, in my many experiences, worldly and otherworldly.
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jul 2 2007, 02:55 PM)
You said before that you had no care for the past,
That's not what I said. What I said was, "What I care most is now, not the archaic past...," a very big difference. One should study Critical Reading to really get the precise distinction.
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jul 2 2007, 02:55 PM)
If God is infinate how can he be bound to selectivity? Infinity can not be bound or divided.
My mind is not infinite, at least I don't think so for now. Therefore, I am most capable to select. I'm just being honest to myself and not going ahead of the game since I don't really know what's ahead anyway. What I do know is the promise of Jesus Christ. And my forefathers believed in this promise, and even died for it. I honor their belief system.
You have to fill in my new found respect for Jesus Christ, that I'm a Christian again, my brand, a very selective brand, but a Christian nonetheless. And this only took place recently, through God's grace, I believe(!).
"I may have said that I divorced myself from Christianity at one time. BUT, my life, my pilgrimage," has led me into full circle.
Again, since I'm on Earth with a very limited mental capacity, I will select. I will follow my gut instinct, and hopefully, the Holy Spirit is guiding me along the way.
Again, you assume you are a god already, and I don't even have a clue what it's like to a complete human being; however, I'm always working on my humanity. And I absolutely believe that JESUS CHRIST is a savior.
ONE STEP AT A TIME.
QUOTE(dlv @ Jul 3 2007, 03:14 AM)
[size=3]You assume that the soul, essence, and/or whatever the trendiest word to describe the indescrible nowadays is God. Tell that to me again when you come back from the grave..., if you're god (with a small "g").
You also assume that everything around you is God. "But that's okay." One always has the right to assume. BUT, I could only be honest to myself and say, "I don't know that." I could only go by my own, private, personal experience, not another person's take on the matter, not another book rhetoric, not another guru's tirade. The key for me is being honest to oneself, not following a hearsay. And I believe that everyone should do the same, be really honest to oneself. Then again, I don't care about forcing others to my belief system.
You also assume that everything around you is God. "But that's okay." One always has the right to assume. BUT, I could only be honest to myself and say, "I don't know that." I could only go by my own, private, personal experience, not another person's take on the matter, not another book rhetoric, not another guru's tirade. The key for me is being honest to oneself, not following a hearsay. And I believe that everyone should do the same, be really honest to oneself. Then again, I don't care about forcing others to my belief system.
A soul pure in God is God. --- The Philokalia
Guru, God, and Self are One. --- Ramana Maharshi
In those respects in which the soul is unlike God, it is also unlike itself. --- St. Bernard
The soul is in itself a most lovely and perfect image of God. --- St. John of the Cross
The whole universe is God. God and creation are one.
QUOTE(brave_new_world @ Jul 2 2007, 07:37 PM)
A soul pure in God is God. --- The Philokalia
Guru, God, and Self are One. --- Ramana Maharshi
In those respects in which the soul is unlike God, it is also unlike itself. --- St. Bernard
The soul is in itself a most lovely and perfect image of God. --- St. John of the Cross
The whole universe is God. God and creation are one.
Guru, God, and Self are One. --- Ramana Maharshi
In those respects in which the soul is unlike God, it is also unlike itself. --- St. Bernard
The soul is in itself a most lovely and perfect image of God. --- St. John of the Cross
The whole universe is God. God and creation are one.
I could only be happy for those people. I, on the other hand, have never met God, at least I don't think so. I certainly would love to meet Jesus Christ one day. I could only go by my own pilgrimage. I don't believe in comparing myself to anybody anymore. I could only be honest to myself. And I believe everyone should do the same, but I'm not forcing anyone.
One step at a time, and hey, I believe I made a step forward: I'm a Christian again!!!
"The circle of life."
QUOTE(brave_new_world @ Jul 2 2007, 07:37 PM)
The whole universe is God. God and creation are one.
This just came to me out of the blue: “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God” (Matthew 5:8).
One has to be honest to oneself, foremost, before this could take place, "...pure in heart."
One step at a time.
Right, i'm having to split this into two parts cause for some reason the quote thingy is causing me some problems 
Is consciousness not experience enough?Says dlv who wants to have a one on one conversation with God. What do you think He might say?
I think the beauty of existence itself is the greatest conversation you can have.
You are right, there is no correct word to describe anything so profound, no single event or happening, nothing. This is why it is through the profoundity and subtlety of everything that God can be experienced.
i couldnt have put it better myself dlv, this is one of the basis' of my original point. Belief is a tool for communicating the validity of something to others and politely disregarding something which challenges what you value.
It is not the actual "object" (for want of a better word) to which you refer it to itself. Many people worship their belief more than that which it is refered.
to be cont...
QUOTE
and God abides in him.[/u][/b] 1John 4:13-18
The map is not the territory
God is all around, within and without. ... When one breathes, one knows him as breath; when one speaks, one knows him as speech; when one sees one knows him as the eye; when one hears, one knows him as the ear; when one thinks, one knows him as the mind...(Brihadaranyaka Upanishad).
He is everywhere and is everything! There is no destination to get to Him, He is already there.
You assume that the soul, essence, and/or whatever the trendiest word to describe the indescrible nowadays is God. Tell that to me again when you come back from the grave..., if you're god (with a small "g").
How do you know that "i" will be going to my grave?The map is not the territory
God is all around, within and without. ... When one breathes, one knows him as breath; when one speaks, one knows him as speech; when one sees one knows him as the eye; when one hears, one knows him as the ear; when one thinks, one knows him as the mind...(Brihadaranyaka Upanishad).
He is everywhere and is everything! There is no destination to get to Him, He is already there.
QUOTE(dlv @ Jul 2 2007, 08:14 PM)
You assume that the soul, essence, and/or whatever the trendiest word to describe the indescrible nowadays is God. Tell that to me again when you come back from the grave..., if you're god (with a small "g").
QUOTE(dlv @ Jul 2 2007, 08:14 PM)
You also assume that everything around you is God. "But that's okay." One always has the right to assume. BUT, I could only be honest to myself and say, "I don't know that." I could only go by my own, private, personal experience, not another person's take on the matter, not another book rhetoric, not another guru's tirade. The key for me is being honest to oneself, not following a hearsay. And I believe that everyone should do the same, be really honest to oneself. Then again, I don't care about forcing others to my belief system.
Yeah, what Brave said QUOTE(dlv @ Jul 2 2007, 08:14 PM)
Therefore just like you, I have my assumptions too, and one of them is that I will have a view and one-on-one conversation with my God, as a Being, and this includes Jesus Christ. This is why I'm a Christian again. I want to see Him, It, Jesus Christ, not just my mind telling me that God is everywhere. I really don't care what most books tell other people. I believe in the promise of Jesus Christ.
Not caring what books tell other people and then believeing in the promise of Jesus Christ is a little contradictory seeing as you wouldnt even know who Jesus Christ was if it werent for Biblical writings. I understand where you are coming from though, you are finding your own way. I have no criticism with people who use ancient knowledge to help identify with what they already know in their hearts, i am sorry this bothers you so. QUOTE(dlv @ Jul 2 2007, 08:14 PM)
God has to be revealed! And one day, I believe I will find out, and God only knows that I'm not ready for that, not yet at least. I'm here on Earth; therefore, it is not a mistake that I have things to do. And don't I know it.
One step at a time, at least for me -- one-on-one conversation with God and if there's more than that, then I'm always open to whatever happens, eventually, only after my sincere desires are fulfilled...
You've said this a few times dlv, i am interested in the concept, what are insincere desires? What is the difference between a desire which is sincere and a desire which is insincere? One step at a time, at least for me -- one-on-one conversation with God and if there's more than that, then I'm always open to whatever happens, eventually, only after my sincere desires are fulfilled...
QUOTE
Is consciousness not experience enough?QUOTE(dlv @ Jul 2 2007, 08:14 PM)
Words, words, and more words. You know nn23, we, humans, deal so much with imperfect words, and there really is no correct word to describe anything so profound.
I think the beauty of existence itself is the greatest conversation you can have.
You are right, there is no correct word to describe anything so profound, no single event or happening, nothing. This is why it is through the profoundity and subtlety of everything that God can be experienced.
QUOTE(dlv @ Jul 2 2007, 08:14 PM)
To me, one could only be certain about consciousness, that one is in consciousness mode, if one is not in the body, if the body is dead for at least three hours, brain dead without a beating heart. And then the body is revived again, a la resurrected body, and then share this "consciousness" story.
Die, come back, and tell us all about it. Apparently, Jesus did just that. True, that's debatable, but I BELIEVE, regardless!
And so we come back to my original point, belief is not the ultimate "truth" (God) for it denotes doubt because you acknowledge that it is debatable.Die, come back, and tell us all about it. Apparently, Jesus did just that. True, that's debatable, but I BELIEVE, regardless!
QUOTE(dlv @ Jul 2 2007, 08:14 PM)
Experience, on the other hand, is strictly earthbound. It doesn't have as much weight as TRUE consciousness. Although, one could certainly experience God on Earth, and I'm not talking about kundalini energy and "Expansion" either..., even though one should experience one's kundalini energy to get that out of the way. One should always satisfy one's curiousity. The kundalini energy is there to be experienced, besides. One could only benefit from it, and it doesn't make a Christian a pagan. Again, kundalini is just a word to describe the indescribable, what is God-given, like breathing and eating. If many people have experienced it, then why not all. It's a fun diversion, if anything else, and a great party conversation.
When did Kundalini's come into it? QUOTE(dlv @ Jul 2 2007, 08:14 PM)
Seeing Jesus Christ, however, is THE excellent start, and usually this includes signs and wonders that one did see THE Christ. One simply cannot say, "Oh, I dreamed about Jesus Christ." Or, "I was guided by the voice of Jesus Christ." Other people will know if this actually took place, no doubt about that.
Why is there no doubt about that? If we are all Gods children, then surely we are no different than Jesus Christ himself, this may have even been an element of what he was trying to impart. QUOTE(dlv @ Jul 2 2007, 08:14 PM)
Again, words are very limited to the point of meaningless in the final scheme of things. Words are really meant for the mundane reality, never for the ABSOLUTE, nor the otherworldly, beyond this world.
i couldnt have put it better myself dlv, this is one of the basis' of my original point. Belief is a tool for communicating the validity of something to others and politely disregarding something which challenges what you value. It is not the actual "object" (for want of a better word) to which you refer it to itself. Many people worship their belief more than that which it is refered.
QUOTE(dlv @ Jul 2 2007, 08:14 PM)
I could only go by my brand of Christian map. I want to see God and Jesus Christ one day, and then go from there. If there is more, then it's beyond me, and I'm sure I will be open to the unknown and unknowable by the mind.
One step at a time.
You prefer the map to the territory?...Good luck with your journeys dlv, i sincerely mean it.One step at a time.
to be cont...
Heres part 2
I make a few statements here about paradoxes, not in what you have said, but in Christian logic. I do not know which point you refer "you always have the choice to think that way" to? Think what way about what?
Originally i am just asking you what context of power you are speaking of with regard to Christianity, if this is a justification of your belief, i wonder what map you would be following if Satanism was the most "powerful" religion in the world today
So, if someone asks you your name and you say "dlv" they then believe that your name is so, but you do not require this belief because you know in your eyes that your name is "dlv".
....If your God is love and then some, and God is infinate (which you did not directly say, but i am sure we can agree that He can be no less) then surely he is everything, as this is what infinity encompasses. And if this be the case then existence is this one to one conversation you speak of. All that which you experience in life is God....How amazing is that!
It was inaccurate for me to write "no care" for the past and i shall ammend this immediately!
Here you go...
You have to fill in my new found respect for Jesus Christ, that I'm a Christian again, my brand, a very selective brand, but a Christian nonetheless. And this only took place recently, through God's grace, I believe(!).
"I may have said that I divorced myself from Christianity at one time. BUT, my life, my pilgrimage," has led me into full circle.
Again, since I'm on Earth with a very limited mental capacity, I will select. I will follow my gut instinct, and hopefully, the Holy Spirit is guiding me along the way.
Again, you assume you are a god already,..."a" God? no...it is not as clear cut as that and at the same time, it is SO clear cut it is inaudible really. God exists within everything, therefore everything is God. There is no "a" because this divides that which is infinate, God. God is that which is beyond the primal seed, the source. Everything there is comes as a result of God, and therefore i choose to identify with my Self (God) rather than my thoughts and senses, i follow these back to whense they came, because this is where there is eternal love....God.
...
NICE ONE!
nn23
QUOTE
Christianity is the most powerful religion in the world today. Earthly facts and histories are easily obscured, but the fact remains that Christianity is the most powerful religion today -- and that's an Earthly reality to be reckoned with. It is not by accident, oh no. People are looking for signs, and this is one great sign of our time, if all else fails! True, early Christians did their PR thing, back in the days, but PR alone will certainly not secure one's future, especially being a major power at that, if God did not will it so. I deal with PR all the time, it is part of my job, so I should know this.
I may have said that I divorced myself from Christianity at one time. BUT, my life, my pilgrimage, is only leading me into full circle -- back to Christianity, my personal relationship with Christ incarnate, God the Almighty. My brand of Christianity.
mmm, i didnt quite understand how this related to what i was saying, and i wasnt thinking any "way", i was actually asking what way you were thinking so i could make more sense out of your point. i acknowledge that my lack of understanding is my failing, care to enlighten?I may have said that I divorced myself from Christianity at one time. BUT, my life, my pilgrimage, is only leading me into full circle -- back to Christianity, my personal relationship with Christ incarnate, God the Almighty. My brand of Christianity.
QUOTE
BLIMEY!!
Most powerful to what context? Money? Popularity? Influence?
I do not think it makes any difference how powerful Christianity is. All the power encompassed from all these peoples faith and belief means nothing in the eyes of God for God is love...Infinity...everything!. If Christianity were so powerful, surely the world would be full of love? But this is then contradicted by the discriminations of good vs bad...sin....duality.
Christianity professes God infinate to be love and within everything but then contradicts this by proclaiming a criteria for that which is infinate
Most powerful to what context? Money? Popularity? Influence?
I do not think it makes any difference how powerful Christianity is. All the power encompassed from all these peoples faith and belief means nothing in the eyes of God for God is love...Infinity...everything!. If Christianity were so powerful, surely the world would be full of love? But this is then contradicted by the discriminations of good vs bad...sin....duality.
Christianity professes God infinate to be love and within everything but then contradicts this by proclaiming a criteria for that which is infinate
QUOTE( @ Jul 2 2007, 08:14 PM)
You always have the choice to think that way. I, on the other hand, could also go by the reality of this world, at the moment. Therefore, it makes a difference to me because I believe in signs. On the other hand, I'm not forcing people to believe in my findings. They're here for the taking. Again, I'm following my brand of Christianity. I'm definitely not a Catholic, nor an Anglican, and so on. Martin Luther created his own brand and many people lost their lives. Mine, at least, is a very private affair.
I make a few statements here about paradoxes, not in what you have said, but in Christian logic. I do not know which point you refer "you always have the choice to think that way" to? Think what way about what?
Originally i am just asking you what context of power you are speaking of with regard to Christianity, if this is a justification of your belief, i wonder what map you would be following if Satanism was the most "powerful" religion in the world today
QUOTE
faith and belief means nothing in the eyes of God ...
QUOTE(dlv @ Jul 2 2007, 08:14 PM)
You don't know that. Has God told you? If not, then don't put words into God's mouth.
So, if someone asks you your name and you say "dlv" they then believe that your name is so, but you do not require this belief because you know in your eyes that your name is "dlv". QUOTE
If Christianity were so powerful, surely the world would be full of love?
I agree, i am glad you see it this way, when i said this i was merely communicating a perspective QUOTE(dlv @ Jul 2 2007, 08:14 PM)
The world is full of love, you just have to see it that way, and surely, this perfect world machinery will polish you to see it so. Hence, my God is love and then some, in my many experiences, worldly and otherworldly.
....If your God is love and then some, and God is infinate (which you did not directly say, but i am sure we can agree that He can be no less) then surely he is everything, as this is what infinity encompasses. And if this be the case then existence is this one to one conversation you speak of. All that which you experience in life is God....How amazing is that! QUOTE
You said before that you had no care for the past,
HA HAAA Yeah, it was annoying that one, i kept sticking the quote of what you said in and the thingy said that the quotations were wrong QUOTE(dlv @ Jul 2 2007, 08:14 PM)
That's not what I said. What I said was, "What I care most is now, not the archaic past...," a very big difference. One should study Critical Reading to really get the precise distinction.
It was inaccurate for me to write "no care" for the past and i shall ammend this immediately!
Here you go...
QUOTE
I basically don't have an interest in another person's take on this matter. Unlike the First Council of Constantinople, mine is a private, personal affair (unless somebody finds my diary one day..., and that's beyond my control). For one thing, the more "far out" the story about Jesus, the more likely I would include it in my new belief system. That's as far as I'm willing to share. Jesus Christ is a God, after all, and that fact has been proven (to me at least), especially since [/b]Christianity is THE most powerful force in this world[/b]. Surely, the Holy Spirit smacked me in the head with this fact, no doubt! I could only be so grateful. Besides, Christianity is my root, my forefathers' religion, what they've fought and died for (so that we could all converse via the internet and have the pleasure to go to church, etcetera).
Apologies again for this inaccuracy, feel free to share the big difference that you spoke of.QUOTE
You said before that you care mostly for now and not the archaic past, but yet what is it that qualifies Christianity in your view to be the most powerful force in the world? Power is for those who desire it.
QUOTE
If God is infinate how can he be bound to selectivity? Infinity can not be bound or divided.
I like this, very passionate.QUOTE(dlv @ Jul 2 2007, 08:14 PM)
My mind is not infinite, at least I don't think so for now. Therefore, I am most capable to select. I'm just being honest to myself and not going ahead of the game since I don't really know what's ahead anyway. What I do know is the promise of Jesus Christ. And my forefathers believed in this promise, and even died for it. I honor their belief system.
QUOTE(dlv @ Jul 2 2007, 08:14 PM)
You have to fill in my new found respect for Jesus Christ, that I'm a Christian again, my brand, a very selective brand, but a Christian nonetheless. And this only took place recently, through God's grace, I believe(!).
"I may have said that I divorced myself from Christianity at one time. BUT, my life, my pilgrimage," has led me into full circle.
Again, since I'm on Earth with a very limited mental capacity, I will select. I will follow my gut instinct, and hopefully, the Holy Spirit is guiding me along the way.
Again, you assume you are a god already,
QUOTE(dlv @ Jul 2 2007, 08:14 PM)
and I don't even have a clue what it's like to a complete human being; however, I'm always working on my humanity. And I absolutely believe that JESUS CHRIST is a savior.
ONE STEP AT A TIME.
If this is true, and he is the son of God, and we are all God's children on this earth, then you are a saviour also dvl ONE STEP AT A TIME.
...NICE ONE!
nn23
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jul 3 2007, 08:40 AM)
If this is true, and he is the son of God, and we are all God's children on this earth, then you are a saviour also dvl ...
...Nicely said nn23. People believe they need a saviour, because, for the most part...they don't trust in their own God abiding power from within. Thus they are always seeking from without, rather than from within.
Excellent thread btw.
oops
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jul 3 2007, 05:40 AM)
Heres part 2
mmm, i didnt quite understand how this related to what i was saying, and i wasnt thinking any "way", i was actually asking what way you were thinking so i could make more sense out of your point. i acknowledge that my lack of understanding is my failing, care to enlighten?
I make a few statements here about paradoxes, not in what you have said, but in Christian logic. I do not know which point you refer "you always have the choice to think that way" to? Think what way about what?
Originally i am just asking you what context of power you are speaking of with regard to Christianity, if this is a justification of your belief, i wonder what map you would be following if Satanism was the most "powerful" religion in the world today
So, if someone asks you your name and you say "dlv" they then believe that your name is so, but you do not require this belief because you know in your eyes that your name is "dlv".
I agree, i am glad you see it this way, when i said this i was merely communicating a perspective....If your God is love and then some, and God is infinate (which you did not directly say, but i am sure we can agree that He can be no less) then surely he is everything, as this is what infinity encompasses. And if this be the case then existence is this one to one conversation you speak of. All that which you experience in life is God....How amazing is that!
HA HAAA Yeah, it was annoying that one, i kept sticking the quote of what you said in and the thingy said that the quotations were wrong
It was inaccurate for me to write "no care" for the past and i shall ammend this immediately!
Here you go...
Apologies again for this inaccuracy, feel free to share the big difference that you spoke of.
I like this, very passionate.
..."a" God? no...it is not as clear cut as that and at the same time, it is SO clear cut it is inaudible really. God exists within everything, therefore everything is God. There is no "a" because this divides that which is infinate, God. God is that which is beyond the primal seed, the source. Everything there is comes as a result of God, and therefore i choose to identify with my Self (God) rather than my thoughts and senses, i follow these back to whense they came, because this is where there is eternal love....God.
If this is true, and he is the son of God, and we are all God's children on this earth, then you are a saviour also dvl...
NICE ONE!
nn23
mmm, i didnt quite understand how this related to what i was saying, and i wasnt thinking any "way", i was actually asking what way you were thinking so i could make more sense out of your point. i acknowledge that my lack of understanding is my failing, care to enlighten?
I make a few statements here about paradoxes, not in what you have said, but in Christian logic. I do not know which point you refer "you always have the choice to think that way" to? Think what way about what?
Originally i am just asking you what context of power you are speaking of with regard to Christianity, if this is a justification of your belief, i wonder what map you would be following if Satanism was the most "powerful" religion in the world today
So, if someone asks you your name and you say "dlv" they then believe that your name is so, but you do not require this belief because you know in your eyes that your name is "dlv". I agree, i am glad you see it this way, when i said this i was merely communicating a perspective
....If your God is love and then some, and God is infinate (which you did not directly say, but i am sure we can agree that He can be no less) then surely he is everything, as this is what infinity encompasses. And if this be the case then existence is this one to one conversation you speak of. All that which you experience in life is God....How amazing is that! HA HAAA Yeah, it was annoying that one, i kept sticking the quote of what you said in and the thingy said that the quotations were wrong
It was inaccurate for me to write "no care" for the past and i shall ammend this immediately!
Here you go...
Apologies again for this inaccuracy, feel free to share the big difference that you spoke of.
I like this, very passionate.
..."a" God? no...it is not as clear cut as that and at the same time, it is SO clear cut it is inaudible really. God exists within everything, therefore everything is God. There is no "a" because this divides that which is infinate, God. God is that which is beyond the primal seed, the source. Everything there is comes as a result of God, and therefore i choose to identify with my Self (God) rather than my thoughts and senses, i follow these back to whense they came, because this is where there is eternal love....God.
If this is true, and he is the son of God, and we are all God's children on this earth, then you are a saviour also dvl
...NICE ONE!
nn23
NN23 i concur i am the savior i would be searching for and this applies to anyone...........
Amazing, this has become an epic, one of my good deeds in this lifetime, no doubt.
It's not a prediction..., merely a figure of speech.
It's partly contradictory because we're dealing with Earthly facts when we talk about books since authors give their theories and interpretations and jealousies and spite and so on. Therefore, I have the absolute right to be selective. And my life is my ultimate book. Just because I read other people's writings, doesn't mean I completely adhere to them. In most cases, I actually don't; nevertheless, they kept me amused while the read lasted.
I will certainly know God / Jesus Christ because God has the power to dispel all doubting. The Holy Spirit place this in my head, just now actually.
I assume you're alluding to ancient knowledge..., and no, ancient knowledge doesn't bother me. In fact, I studied it quite heavily in the university. My minor was Philosophy / Religions (for five years). And one keeps on learning about it, ancient knowledge, until the day one dies.
I'm also a "conduit," BTW, a form of yoga, a meditation technique with an Eastern (India) lineage to boot, but not the religious variety, strictly energy based. The Hindu dogma has been cut out of the equation since it's not necessary. In this technique, religion, in general, is best left outside the meditation hall.
BUT, are the ancient knowledge, interpreted by human beings, truth? That's always debatable. I could only go by my life (if other people's theories and interpretations make sense in my life, then wonderful for me) and the Holy Spirit's guidance.
An insincere desire is half-azzed, indecisive, capricious intent (especially when push comes to shove, when one goes through the many tests to achieve it). A person who went through a Near Death Experience could even say that "...it is something I came back for, and I'm willing to go through the agony of reviving my dead, decaying flesh..."
I try not to dea
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jul 3 2007, 12:35 PM)
How do you know that "i" will be going to my grave?
It's not a prediction..., merely a figure of speech.
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jul 3 2007, 12:35 PM)
Not caring what books tell other people and then believeing in the promise of Jesus Christ is a little contradictory seeing as you wouldnt even know who Jesus Christ was if it werent for Biblical writings.
It's partly contradictory because we're dealing with Earthly facts when we talk about books since authors give their theories and interpretations and jealousies and spite and so on. Therefore, I have the absolute right to be selective. And my life is my ultimate book. Just because I read other people's writings, doesn't mean I completely adhere to them. In most cases, I actually don't; nevertheless, they kept me amused while the read lasted.
I will certainly know God / Jesus Christ because God has the power to dispel all doubting. The Holy Spirit place this in my head, just now actually.
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jul 3 2007, 12:35 PM)
I understand where you are coming from though, you are finding your own way. I have no criticism with people who use ancient knowledge to help identify with what they already know in their hearts, i am sorry this bothers you so.
I assume you're alluding to ancient knowledge..., and no, ancient knowledge doesn't bother me. In fact, I studied it quite heavily in the university. My minor was Philosophy / Religions (for five years). And one keeps on learning about it, ancient knowledge, until the day one dies.
I'm also a "conduit," BTW, a form of yoga, a meditation technique with an Eastern (India) lineage to boot, but not the religious variety, strictly energy based. The Hindu dogma has been cut out of the equation since it's not necessary. In this technique, religion, in general, is best left outside the meditation hall.
BUT, are the ancient knowledge, interpreted by human beings, truth? That's always debatable. I could only go by my life (if other people's theories and interpretations make sense in my life, then wonderful for me) and the Holy Spirit's guidance.
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jul 3 2007, 12:35 PM)
what are insincere desires? What is the difference between a desire which is sincere and a desire which is insincere?
An insincere desire is half-azzed, indecisive, capricious intent (especially when push comes to shove, when one goes through the many tests to achieve it). A person who went through a Near Death Experience could even say that "...it is something I came back for, and I'm willing to go through the agony of reviving my dead, decaying flesh..."
QUOTE(nn23 @ Jul 3 2007, 12:35 PM)
Says dlv who wants to have a one on one conversation with God. What do you think He might say?
I try not to dea