Hello boys and girls of UM.
Here's a fun little question I want to throw out for discussion:
My family is hyper religious, like 'frothing at the mouth and hitting me with Bibles' Christian, and think that since I was married and divorced by the time I was 19, that I am going to Hell. I did nothing to end the marriage, she cheated then left.
A few years later, I'm off at college, I get a Christmas card from my grandparents that said, and I can quote this: "Merry Christmas. Heard you have a girlfriend. Enjoy Hell."
And now, I'm fixing to get divorced for the second time. Same story, she cheated and left, too. Is it in the air around me or something? Anyway, I haven't heard from my extended family -- my Mom and Dad are actually cool with it, in fact they don't even care if I run around like a pimp on Cialis --on this situation yet, but Christmas ain't here.
So here's my question UMers. I know we all come from various religions, but I'm wondering who, if any, in the Christian community here agrees with my extended family. I'm well over caring where other people say I am going -- like my cousin told me, "If you're going to Hell, I'm going to Hell because you raised me, so I'll bring the stuff to make S'Mores." -- so I am not looking to start a fight (I promise to play nice with the Christians this once ); I'm just wondering how my family can think this way. If you agree with them, please provide scripture or what have you to back up your claim.
So, fire away!

First off I'm sleepy read through ya story real quick First off if people are so religious family or not..the way to help others is not say YOUR GOING TO HELL! I would be upset if family or anyone told me that! In ANY religion there's no point to where someone should say your going to hell...unless it's a mass killer of some kind of course hah.
I see nothing wrong with you relationship situation. Being married then divorced by 19...they say everything happens for a reason no matter what may occur in life. Point I'm trying to make no matter what may happen in life don't let people that judge you affect your own thought on you life or where you may go in your afterlife where ever that may be.

Who really know 100% if there is heaven or hell nobody can actullay come back from the dead and say look I got pictures you know...just believe in something positive is what I always say!

Strictly historically speaking, from what I understand laws and rules about divorce, sodomy, homosexuality, whatever, were first introduced to ensure a growing population that was constantly threatened by disease, famine, war, etc. The laws were also established to maintain bloodlines or heritage and to better ensure a son to pass property rights to. Religions formed around these and other laws because the rules would be obeyed more if an all-knowing, infallible God was commanding it rather than some arbitrary king.

This is a purely secular outlook and doesn't help you much with the spiritual question of divorce, so I apologize. In my opinion, if God truly cared then he could care less about who you marry or divorce, as long as you're true to yourself and happy. I've always felt that it's more important to follow and understand the big, important things about a religion rather than to do everything by the textbook and make a fuss about breaking any minute detail.

sounds to me that where ya family r headed,If god is this loving entity an we made in his image then he want us in loving relationship,an slogging away at bad marriage a waste of time we have on earth.Ya bible bashing family got some venom,AND surely that a sin to use it on a member of family spose to love.dont get wound up with it as other guy said live ya life.marriage not b all of life.love and happyness is.bible thumping christians cause alot of depression in offsprings life they well known for it

One of thr most impactful things that Jesus said(IMO) was "one without sin may cast the first stone" Jesus was repremanding the religious nuts at that time. With all due respect to your grandparents...i think they are wrong. I am a Christian, and i just grad. Siminary with a degree in theology...and one of the things that i have learned is that alot of Christians want to judge and put down others, and reflect on others issues...rather that focus on there own problms and short comings. Now granted i dont think"running around like a pimp on Cialis" is right...but that isnt condemnation to hell.

From a Christian POV, your spouse cheating on you is a legitimate reason for getting a divorce.

Dieing is not so bad if you think about it. You cant actually panic and be all like "O SH** I'M DEAD".








Of course, I could be wrong and you could go straight to hell and burn for eternity.

Fun? I don't think so.

NHN, I realize you addressed this to Christians, so I hope you don't mind that I have posted.



Those are not words of love.

1 Corinthians 13: 4-7

"Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."


Hell is a state of mind. My only advise...love them in spite of their ignorance. It is hard to love someone who appears to be your enemy, but loving them unconditionally will soften there heart. As I have already shared with you in another post...we all want to be loved.

Matt 5:44

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"


edited for grammer

on behalf of Christians everywhere who don't believe that scare tactics are how Jesus preached, I apologize. Going to Hell is not a matter of what you do, or how you mess up, or how good you are, it is determined by your faith in Jesus as Savior. The Bible says in the book of Romans that "... if a man believes in his heart and confesses with his mouth that Jesus is Lord..." he will be saved (paraphrased). If it was based on my own merit, I would be condemed before you as I have been a christian since 14 but I too have been divorced (from a homo), I am also an ex-stripper, a former dirty truth or dare player (you can imagine), and I used to pose naked in front of lakes and rivers for photogs. With all of these and more I would definitely be damned to Hell by some standards of piety, but I trust in the Grace of God, and I know that I am going to Heaven to be with Jesus when I die because I believe what the Bible says about Jesus and I truly desire to please God with my life. It is true that as christians there are preconcieved notions of how people should behave, but I know that scripture tells us not to mention the speck in anothers eye when we have a plank in our own... the danger for christians is in believing that salvation creates personal righteousness - sin must be battled, but we cannot expect to win every fight, why judge someone else? To the best of your ability, believe in Jesus for salvation, live the way the Bible teaches, put pleasing God before all else, and relax - He understands us.
I hope this response helps... I don't write often on these forums, but I do like to add what I know to be truth about christianity. Please remember, in Christ there is peace because He is perfect - not because we are.

Great Testimony Moonlit.......

there is old saying i know "Those who are seriously religous are affraid of hell, those who have lived hell are spiritual" "how can i pull the splinter from your eye if i cannot see the wooden beam inmy own"

NHN, man, I'm sorry that your relatives are so concerned with telling you where you will spend eternity that they seem to forget to share God's love with you during what must obviously be a painful time (btw, I would recommend deodorant, a good mouth wash, and regular bathing at least once a week, twice if you work outside ).

When Jesus told the crowd, "Let him who has no sin cast the first stone." He was making the point that there is no sin which is worse than any other, or more condemnable than any other. He was also pointing out there is no one without sin, and in fact, that there is no one with just one sin or one type of sin, so basically, without God's intervention we are all destined for hell, and His most loving act, is reserved ONLY for sinners.

Back to the question, are you going to hell for getting divorced? SLL is correct, in that according to "the law" divorce is allowed in the case of infidelity. However, Jesus pointed out that Moses put the "allowable" divorce laws in place to mollify people. God intended for people to have a mate of the opposite gender in an exclusive, life-long relationship and anything beside that is in disobedience of God, so it is a sin. I have to tell you though, if that is your one and only sin, you are an exceptional human. So, from a Christian perspective are you going to hell for getting divorced? Yes, in that it is ONE of the many sins which have caused you to be permanently separated from God.

I personally use the Mennen Speed Stick 24/7, and my wife doesn't wrinkle her nose around me. You may want to give it a try.

That is an awesome quote! Saving that one to my favorites.

well thank you i wish it was mine but its not

Don't worry, your not going to hell because your ex-wives cheated on you. You probably just got married too young and that was bad judgement combined with bad luck.

Move to California!

I'm really sorry you had the response you did from your family. Please understand, it's an individuals lack of understanding that discredits the Church. They obviously have no guidance from the Holy Spirit, due to the lack of the fruits of the Spirit, one of which would be love. Jesus said He didn't come into the world to condemn it, but that through Him people would come to God. That's His purpose here and that's what we, as christians are supposed to reflect. Unfortunatly, we let our personalities get in the way of His work and things get muddled.
Hope that helps.

Ever here of the scientist who solved the theory of relativity; he moved and left no forwarding address.

Look at it this way if you go to hell you will be in good company. I have been condemned to hell by friend, relatives, and strangers. My Pagan friends are all planning a big party when we get there. BYOB, I think Pan is suppling the wings.

Just tell your family , when you go to hell because your ex-wife was a whore, according to the bible, that you'll still not be free of her, because she'll meet you there! So really, you aren't divorced from her, you're just away! For the moment.

As a Christian, we hold Christ as our role model. Christ was humble, all-forgiving, loving and non-judgmental.

I'm afraid your parents haven't really accepted Christ into their hearts--otherwise, their attitude toward you would be that of unconditional love.

Sometimes we need to cut off those who are toxic to our spiritual well-being. This may be what you need to do for a time. I would keep distant contact, and pray for them, for they sound like they are following the wrong spiritual path and are in more need of forgiveness than you.

Probably all you are guilty of (if you want to use the word) is poor judgment. Don't let your family's negativity ruin your relationship with God. He is much more loving and forgiving than your parents ever dreamed.

God bless and good luck!

Going to hell? Well soft me, I thought hell was right here where we already are. I really learn something new at UM every day.

This is the corner stone of Christian principals, yet it is the MOST UNPRATICED teaching of Jesus.

Somehow over the years, these spoken words have lost their meaning for many who follow christian thought. It is compassion for others that creates an energy that allows for self love. Without self love a person can not understand the human condition or its purpose.

John

Ahoy,
I’m no theologian, but I “feel your pain.” My ex thought I had a very narrow minded attitude when I was offended by her “polishing the knob” of every guy she met. When we split, the Priest explained to me that I was not going to hell and I wouldn’t be committing adultery when I remarried. I don’t know where he got his information, but this is how he explained it to me. “The second she committed adultery, she broke the marriage covenant. Because I was the “victim,” and I had held to the marriage covenant, I had done no wrong. Why would God condemn me for being a victim?” Hope that helps. I don’t know what the zealots base their “you are going to hell” notion on…..They might want to take a close look at the Lord’s Prayer……”and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.” In other words, “treat me like I treat others.” I’m not saying YOU need to be forgiven, but I’m hoping you can find it in your heart to forgive. Then you can hand the marshmallows and chocolate bars to your ex and your family…you won’t need them.

One other thought. If I had a nickel for every time someone has condemned me to hell, I’m going to be a very rich man when I get there!

One other thought. If I had a nickel for every time someone has condemned me to hell, I’m going to be a very rich man when I get there!

Thanks to all for the encouraging words.
And I have pretty much gotten the response I expected. I didn't think there was justification for their beliefs. IAM touched on what may be closest I think, that whole God allowing the Israelites to divorce thing. And by the way, yes I do bathe and all that. Just a magnet for crazy women, I guess.
And no, most Christians don't practice the love thing enough, at least the ones I know personally. Speaking from my experience with my extended family: Both of my grandfathers are preachers, leaders of churches and they are both very old school and judgmental. One even condemned my Mom to Hell from the pulpit once -- she had packed up and left my Dad in Maine after 18 years of living there, she didn't leave him, she wanted him to come with her, but I guess that was enough. Something about marriage screws with some types of Christians, I guess.

I wouldn’t worry to much about hell, having two wives cheating on you it sounds like you have already been there.

LOL. I've had that thought myself.

My sister and her husband were both divorced before they got married in the Catholic Church. His first wife was cheating on him, and my sister's husband hit her.

My sister-in-law is married for the second time (in the Catholic Church). Her first husband was taking drugs and cheating on her.

The church goes easy on those who are the victims. Now, if you were doing the cheating, it may be a different story.

God (and the church) doesn't want anyone to be miserable or stay in a hopeless marriage. However, as Christians we are responsible for our actions and must not take our vows lightly.

I think Christians are cautious about the idea of divorce because so many are taking advantage of quick divorces without doing the work necessary to see if they can save their marriage. No one wants to stick to their vows anymore or take them seriously. Marriage is work, no matter who you are or what you believe. We live in a society that wants instant gratification and constant romance. That's just not what marriage is about. I believe it's about unconditional love, commitment, fidelity, loyalty, support and common goals. It means you're willing to stick with someone no matter what crap they are going through. It's a decision--and not always a warm fuzzy feeling that gives you goosebumps. I found that after the romance fades a bit (hopefully it never dies completely), there is a much deeper, fulfilling love left between you. (And you don't have to shave your legs anymore or leave the room to fart.)

I watched a movie the other day called Shall We Dance? with Richard Greer, Jennifer Lopez and Susan Sarandon. (Yes, a chick flick.) Susan hires a private dec. to following her husband who has secretly taken up ballroom dancing (Jennifer is the instructor--can you blame him?) Susan's character describes marriage like this:


Yeah. I like that.

And yet, just think. If these two women cheated on you it meant they weren't what you were looking for in a wife. So had they not done that, you wouldn't be free, through divorce, to be available for that woman that's been looking for you all her life. And when that happens, you'll know heaven! Which will make it all worth the journey through those hell's, that showed you what not to accept, of how a woman treats you. Take the bad, make it work for you by learning and growing stronger for it and it makes the experience a benefit, instead of a burden, I think.

They have confused worshiping God with thinking they are God.

BTW, I think Jesus is on record as saying that infidelity is grounds for divorce.

Next time someone who says there a christian tells you your going to hell for whatever reason ask them why are they insulting Jesus ? after all he came and was sacrificed and paid our sin debt in full ! do they honestly believe as christians that his sacrafice wasn,t pure or good enough? or do they think that the Christ they believe in is a liar? then tell them if they believe that they are going to hell a lot faster than you are! so mabey it,s THEM who needs to read the bible and study it a lot closer and quit condemming! thats not thier job!!!

No your not going to hell at all.Tell the family only Jesus knows who goes to heaven or hell.
It does seem odd that both wives you have divorced for cheating.I could understand one wife,but two? You are not looking in the right places I guess to find a lady who doesn't cheat.They are out there,but it will take time to find one.
Do you work alot?Perhasp the whole cheating thing started with them because they felt you did not spend enough time with them nor brought them flowers nor said often enough I love you dear.For your next lady,do little things for her,like bring her a single rose,or offer to take care of the kids for a day (if you or she has any) while she gets some free time,or give her a gift certificate if you can afford it to some place to get her nails done or a facial,she'll like that.
Just a thought.

If it's any consolation, I'm a Christian and my husband walked out on me 5 years ago. I felt that God would never allow me to marry either and that I might go to hell. I did some research and found some very conforting information. The next time your family tells you that you are going to hell, tell them to read 1st Corr. 7:15 which deals with God's view on abandonment; Matt 19:9 which deals with adultry; and Deut 24 which deals with marriage and divorce. It is written that God hates divorce, but I believe He hates it because of the pain and confusion it causes. Even if there weren't those verses about divorce, and it was a sin for you to be divorced, then what overrides that entire belief that you are going to hell is that there is no sin that God can't forgive you for. I'm sorry your family has chosen to make you feel so bitter about God and Jesus. I don't believe that is what He wants. He truly does love you and me (although I'm not sure I deserve it). I have a rule that I refuse to be around anyone that 1) makes me feel bad about myself, and 2) anyone who either purposly or inadvertantly keeps me from my relationship with the Father. I'm truly sorry for your pain.

Hey all, checking back in, been busy out 'sinning'. LOL. If I am going to hell, shouldn't I earn it?
Anyway, thank you all for the kind words again, and now to some replies.

Which is why I haven't spoken to any of my grandparents in almost a decade. I got screwed over, and I'm going to Hell? I don't need that kind of guilt.
And I know the verses you mentioned, and it doesn't do any good to point them out since they are so twisted they throw them back at me with thier own warped interpretations.



Well, the first wife was a mistake; I was young and dumb, but I still fell all over myself to treat her like a queen until the day she came home and told me she had group sex with the mechanics at the garage her sister's boyfriend owned.
And the second wife, she got spoiled. The only place I could see where I might have screwed up there is that I was spending nights playing cards to make my half of the bills and she was working mostly evenings. Yes, I had to hang out in bars to play cards, but that doesn't mean I was up to anything...then. That and she had Daddy issues of her own that didn't come out until she took off with a guy twice her age...who is still living with his Momma.
You're right, I think I have been looking in the wrong places. Both of my exes had a lot less education than me, and thus a different understanding of the way the world functions.
And I think I did almost everything you mentioned at some point, for either one of them, except for the kids thing. I won't mess around with a woman who already has kids, well not seriously, and yay! sterility for me! LOL


Oh, I know. I've always said the first thing I am doing when I get to hell is checking out my paternal grandfather's torture because I know it will be a whole lot worse than mine.
And that whole Jesus loves me thing... I'm not sure I would say Jesus loves me, but I look at my relationship with God like this: He made me the way I am -- crazy most of the time, a drunken, lecherous, gambler when single, and a devoted partner when in a relationship, basically a heathen with a touch of morality and sort of a conscience -- so He spends his day in Heaven laughing his butt off at my antics and elbowing Buddha and Allah in the ribs while saying, "Lookit that crazy S.O.B! I made that!"
Yes, I'm serious. That is the two second version of my relationship with God: I'm his favorite screwed up little monkey.


There's a girl out there waiting for me?!
Wow, she must be a real trip. LOL.
But all stupidity aside, yes I can do it if I HAVE to, I understand perfectly what you're saying. I spent a week as a sobbing, broken wreck after the last wife left. Then I had an epiphany: "Screw it. I'm too good for all this. I'm getting mine, what I want for my life, all those dreams I put on hold to make a good life her. If I can find a woman who wants to share those dreams and support me in achieving them, great. If I can't find that, well, there's always casual sex."
That's the part that bugs me the most about this whole "going to Hell" thing. It isn't really the condemnation, but the complete misunderstanding on the part of the Christians in my family of how, while not a Christian myself, I utilized the Christian philosophy of a husband's role and sacrifices involved in a marriage. For example, back to the first wife, the one that caused the rift in my family. I put aside college so I could go to work and support her, instead of her having to support the family while I went to school. I wanted to be a published novelist at the time, still do most days, but I was too drained from working demanding jobs to even sit at a keyboard. But I didn't care, I had a responsibilty to my wife and i was doing what I should.
How does she repay me? With 5 mechanics. And I'm going to Hell for that? I'm damned because for once in my weird little life, I was doing the right thing. I could care less if they condemned me for my all my other misbehaviors, but to say I am damned for being decent, and without justification, as far as I can see?
That stings, I have to admit.




Don't think we'll have to call a truce this time, Howdy , because I agree with you completely. I worked my butt off in both marriages. Yes, I played poker for a living in the second one for a while, but as anyone who has done it knows staking your grocery money in the game, and relying on your skills at cards to make that back and the light bill and the house note in one night, is about as nerve-wracking a job as there is. And I succeeded. We were never hurting.
And at home, I did my share of the chores, etc. Hell, I even brought her flowers home the night I came home and found her gone. Didn't leave a note by the way, let her sister tell me everything, eventually.
I think my mistake was marrying women who didn't realize the work involved, physically, emotionally and spiritually. Even though my second wife proposed to me -- actually she TOLD me on Feb. 4, 2003 we were getting married on Valentine's Day, 2003; since she had a large knife collection and I wanted to anyway, I shrugged and said "OK" -- I don't believe now that she knew what she was getting into.
Just makes me gnash my teeth that I did.
Love the quote about witnessing by the way. Great definition of marriage.

Dude sorry on your bad luck with wives,I agree completly with what moonlit said on the first page about your works not getting you into heaven,your faith and being saved does.And I also agree that all sins are the same except for blaspheming against the holy spirit, thats what the bible says. The bible also says the only reason a marrige should be divorced is if one of the members cheats so, as long as you weren't the cheater, your divorce is ok in god's eye's.

OMG Gotta luv you Prime. I need you for your hysterical replies. lmao.

NHN: You poor thing, IMO, You have a ticket straight to heaven for dealing with those 2 biotches. Also, may I have your permission to use this as my new favorite line from a post?



**hugs**

you are not going to hell for what your ex's have done.....i know for a fact because i have an ex who has been trying to send me to hell ever since, just because i refused to live in it with her....how thoughtless and selfish of me....if i spend time in hell it will be because i am thoughtless and selfish...not because she knows with the owner....

anyway, you are not responsible for what others do, just yourself...if you spend time in hell it is not because of them....but there is a way out.

randomhit10

Nirvana, I do not agree with this trip people put on you and is a very narrow minded view IMO. Christ taught that divorce was fine in cases of adultery. See Matt 5:32. I have posted many times that the western concept of hell is from the paganistic Greek influence when they copied the original text from Aramaic into Greek. There is no place other than the grave for the dead until the appointed ressurections in the future. So do not worry and I am sad that there are people who out of ignorance teach or preach such nonsense.

There's no LITERAL hell, tell your hyper religious family, they can go to hell, for telling you, that you will.


Proverbs 15:34 a word to the wise above (using your head), ye may depart from hell beneath, (operating off your lower nature.


Is there a real heaven and a real hell?

Remeber the Bible says dont be a minister of the LETTER (literal), but of the SPIRIT

And consider Proverbs 15:24 A word to the wise above (using your head) you can depart from Hell beneath, (being ruled by your lower nature).

You see Heaven and Hell are states of consciousness only and not literal, so relax.

Religion and Evangilists want you to believe its real so they can control you, so you will need them. And give them MONEY.


"One does not have to die in order to go to hell, any more than one has to die to get to heaven.

Both are states of mind and conditions, which people experience as a direct outworking of their thoughts, beliefs, words, and acts. If one's mental processes are out of harmony with the law of man's [sic] being, they result in trouble and sorrow; mental as well as bodily anguish overtakes one, and this is hell".



The lowest rung on the latter descending into Hell, is reserved for those who believe they will go to Hell, if they dont believe in Hell.





When we're "In the world when we are in (Egypt) (the lower mind) and when we're surrounded by ignoramuses and with other gods we are in (Babylon) ( also the lower mind), and in (Jerusalem) when we are with God (the higher mind), You can live in the two, or choose to go straight to jerusalem Gods chosen land, the human mind (consciousness), (the higher mind). Remember Jerusalem is occupied by Jews, and a jew is one inwardly (one who meditates). Then we are "in the world, but not of the world".

We have departed egypt and fled from Babylon and have come home. We have departed from hell beneath, ruled by the lower animal quality of the mind.

Egypt and Babylon were the two great empires of ancient times. Both are full of deep spiritual significance. Symbols of the lower quality, the physical and the emotional.




If you truly dont want to go to hell, then get the hell out of the church, because thats what hell is, thats where hell begins and ends. Depart from hell, by using your head, your brain. Proverbs 15:24.

Now you know the truth!

Never forget that the bible says don't be a minister of the Letter. for the Letter (literal understanding) KILLS!!!

It's all ancient mythology describing mans ascension to a higher consciousness, not one word is true historically or literally!, and it is a fact, that one can conclude after the proper number of years in study.

Parables, Allegory, dark sayings of old, which is mythology!

thats what it ssys it is!

The bible says it, not ME!

You're altenative is to believe in utter nonsese literally, talking snakes, talking donkeys, God commanding dead and burnt animals at his alter, because he loves their smell, come on man Wake up said the mythological character paul, because we are asleep, when we don't understand the nature of the MYTH.

it's MYTHOLOGY!

http://thehiddenlighthouse.blogspot.com/20...05_archive.html


http://thehiddenlighthouse.blogspot.com/20...22_archive.html





bh

Buddhahead, great name by the way, I understand it is mythology. I'm not worried about an actual Hell, that is just kind of a running joke with me. I'm more worried about my family being so wrapped up in their religion that rather than see that I was hurting from my first wife leaving me like she did, they condemned for finding a moment of happiness later on. I want to understand what would drive a religious person to turn on their own kin. While I always knew I wasn't a favorite, I thought that these people cared. What could drive them to say such hateful things to their own blood? I know the Bible says Christ will turn families against one another, but this just seems kind of ludicrous to me.
I started this thread as a way to pick the brains of the Christians on UM. So far all they have done is prove me right.
And by doing so, give me a laugh. Since it is pretty funny to me that the unbaptized heathen of the family seems to understand Christianity better than two preachers and a horde of others that grew up in it and never left, like I did.
But thanks for the informative post.

LOL Random. Hell is probably populated by ex-wives, isn't it? I'm glad my first lives 2000 miles away and the soon to be second went back home to Louisiana and rarely comes around. I got lucky in that sense, I guess.

Religion divides and destroys, I have seen and read of many cases where friendships and family relations were destroyed because of religion. You are just one more of the millions that have experienced it.

I too experienced it.

Let no one change what you know, if your own parents are so blinded by their religion to write you off, then write them off as well. Its there loss.

You have experienced the real meqning of the number 666 and what buying and selling really means.

Be your own self, and good luck.


bh

Has the ANTI-CHRIST already been here?
He, it has been around since the beginning, he's till here and will always be here.
Who or what is it.

The mark is 666 which rolls down to 9 6+6+6=18 1+8=9
9 is the mystical number of the lower mind brain in greek mythology, which is what the entire nt and book of revelations is.

It's simply saying that in order for people to be accepted
in the earth tribe society they must be functioning from
the lower mind.

They cannot be functioning from the higher mind because
then they are considered cults, or anti Christ etc. etc.
You must follow the rules of the earth societies to be
able to function .

This type of mythological teaching is just referencing that
in deep Greek myth terms.

The bible says if one does not bear the mark, he cannot buy or sell in those days.

Don't think of buying and selling in the terms of literal things, but instead figuratively. It doesn't mean literal buying and selling as in goods, as religion and evangelists would have you believe.

So you could say, that if you don't have the mark (if you don't fit into the group) you can't sell your words or ideas, no one will buy it, because they are operating from the lower nature. And you are not, you will be an outcast unless you are like them.

It could be co workers, even your own father and mother, or anyone you meet, if you are not at their level, they will not but what you are selling, in the therms of ideas or trying to teach them something, they simply will let your words go in one ear and out the other.

The mark is the person operating from the lower carnal mind. This is the same mark that was put on cain, it's the physical. You must fit in, or your doomed to be on your own, and it's a lonley road.


Also the carbon atom is made of 6 electrons 6 protons and 6 nuetrons.
The carbon atom is what all life is made from, this is where you get carbon dating, it is carbon 12 and it is 666.


It's the physical life not the spiritual, it was the physical that kills, it's the physical that prostitutes the thoughts of others, it was the physical that imprisoned or killed Socrates, giovano bruno, Gallileo and many more, it's the physical that is responsible for all the wars and destruction to the planet earth.


The spiritual giveth life, the LETTER, literal (physical) taketh it away.

consider that Jesus's name in greek gematria is 888
this is the oxygen atom 8 electrons 8 protons and 8 nuetrons.

the o2 molecule is spiritual, in metaphysics the wind is the spirit.

"In him uou livee, move and have your being" In what? In the atmosphere. Jesus 888 oxygen and electromagnetism.

888 is spiritual and 666 is the number of man, mankind.
we are the beast.


"let man have an animal mind until seven times passes him by"

While these guys like jack van impe, hal lindsey, pat robertson and others are looking for a man to be the beast, all they have to do is look in the mirror, because it is us.
The irony.

And it's also the mythical number of the SUN in GREEK.
So 666 is simply the person operating their thoughts from the lower quality mind, as opposed to the spiritual mind which is 888, non carbon based.

lol...i used to think the song "all my exs live in texas" was a dumb song...it ain't.

randomhit10

LMAO. Hell, no! Texas is mine! They can leave! LOL.

Don't stress it. You did nothing wrong. About hell, I believe that life is hell. If hell is a disconnection from god. What better way than being "alive". In order to get to heaven you have to go through hell. Life hurts but be in good spirits death waits with open arms. Here's something to think about. If life is hell then reincarnation is the continued chance to redeem one's self.

Lol if you are going to hell for that then that means pretty much half the worlds going to hell which i extremely doubt.

I can't believe it took more than two pages of replies before this came out. It was the first thing I thought of. Even taking aside the Mosaic laws on divorce, Jesus speaks candidly, saying that marital unfaithfulness is grounds for divorce - the only grounds, according to that passage in Matthew, though I think you could argue from other passages that there may be other reasons for divorce, depending on the circumstances.

It certainly is strange, NHN, that your Christian family is threatening you with hell, when marital unfaithfulness is given by Jesus as a reason for divorce. I'd be interested to hear what their particular take on Matthew 5:31-32 is, actually. Maybe you can send a Christmas card back to your grandparents seeking clarification. Write something like:

Merry Christmas, grandma and grandpa. Thank you for you kind words last Christmas. Here are some kind words from Jesus for you also:

But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. (Matthew 5:31-32)

"If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." (John 8:7)

That said, my heart goes out to you. I know a little about what you may be going through. Not much, but a little. I've never been divorced, myself (or married, for that matter), but I have recently become acquainted with someone who is going through a divorce. Having become quite close friends, we have been talking about the difficulties and problems that arise from divorces. Having never really known a divorced person (as in, known them well), I'm only just starting to get an idea of some of the issues you and her and others in your position are facing.

Good luck, NHN

Regards, PA

Thanks, PA. I was actually waiting on you to answer this one, as you and Irish seem the most lucid of the Christians here.
And the two that I can tolerate the easiest, both of y'all are very calm and understanding about your faith. LOL. You're credits to the religion.
at the Christmas card idea. I am just evil enough to do that.
I'm aware of those verses. Which just makes it harder to understand my family's rejection of my search for happiness. I mean, I got jacked. Yes, I made vows twice and somewhere in what passes for my heart, I still believe them, even the ones I made to the first wife, but I got to move on, find some happiness. How does their religion twist them so badly that they cannot understand or even want their own nephew, cousin, grandson to be happy? It is just very depressing that my fidelity and search for happiness has divided my family to the point that I won't speak to any of my grandparents, most of my cousins, and all but one of my aunts.
I mean, by my wives cheating they have narrowed down my family and support group drastically. Thank God my friends and UM rock the proverbial Kasbah! LOL

b kind enough to take a british ex would ya,texas sounds ideal