If we Invent time machines in the future don't you think some one would come back in time by now?
what do you think?

To be quite honest, the issue of a time machine has the possibility to be a touchy subject such as abortion is...it would be like undoing things that god created, you know...

okay like so if a time machine is ever built and I get my hands on it then I will take the time machine back to the the year 1920, deposit about 500$ into a savings account with a good interest gain then jump ahead 2000 years, withdraw the money, then jump back to right now and give myself, who is typing this right now , the cash. ..........

Im waiting........ waiting.... wait for it... Still waiting. ............... Im beggining to think that Moe shall never get his hands on a time machine. .............. Moe? ............ Whats taking you?............ I want that mini van............. TODAY MOE! ARRRRRGGG........... Tis true. Moe shall never time travel.

*bangs head on keybaord*

klhgfah;fdgncnvfl;khvdnsflghnMD/NF LGHLKSADNFSDIFJNKLFDSA,M

see...thats what i'm talking about...if a time machine were invented, there would be people doing that...people going forward in time to get a peek at a test...to make more money...and what if the currency was changed during that 2000 years Moe??? exactly...we should leave time alone...it is a power too great to screw around with

Steven Hawking made the same arguement...if time travel was possible, why haven't we been contacted in some way by travelers from the future? Even if we're too assume that there's some kind of law that forbids interaction with us, you'd have to assume not everyone would follow it.

Second...altering the past is impossible; you can't undo the past, because it's already happened. This theory always confused me to be honest...if you were to go back in time, and have some effect on events, then whatever you did would already BE recorded in history, since the events had already occured before you went back in time

But you can undo the past if you travel back in time, then you can kill people and stuff, alter the history of earth forever...

heres an example...lets say i go back in time and kill george Washington and all of the other americans in the Revolutionary war...altered history...How about the civil war, I sided with the south...we'd all be slave owning rednecks...So The Past can be changed, altering the past will alter the future...

High Dimensional Thinking (forgive the length- its an article I found)

Professor Hawking invokes a cosmic censor, an omnipotent entity that intervenes to prevent the occurrence of a paradox. It operates something like this. If a man goes back in time and attempts to alter his personal history, for example by trying to kill his father then the cosmic censor would have it that the murdered man was not really his father. What if he attempts to commit a form of retrograde suicide by killing his earlier self? Presumably in this kind of situation the cosmic censor takes a more active role, depending on the method employed. If, for example, the time traveler elects to shoot his earlier self, then the gun will misfire or the bullet will simply miss. The cosmic censor, then, ensures that any and every attempt by the time traveler to alter his personal history will be frustrated. However we will now show that the cosmic censor is not required at all and that there is no such thing as a time paradox. After all there is no paradox with travelling in 3 dimensions. The universe doesn't fall apart if I go to Cambridge and come back again so why should there be a paradox in 4 dimensions. Paradoxes are for the small-minded!

Why only four dimensions? Well, there have to be at least four but why not five, or six, or even a hundred. There is no reason whatsoever to limit ourselves to four, and a great deal to be gained by assuming more. This is not a new idea, and scientists have used it to make significant progress towards constructing a fully unified theory of nature. Currently, the most popular candidate is super string theory, which requires ten dimensions. Lets not get too complicated and start by assuming five dimensions. We all live on a three dimensional surface of a multi-spatial dimensional manifold, and to move a whole universe you just have to move from one three dimensional surface to another. The extra dimensions are those that connect the 3D surfaces together. In terms of temporal dimensions we live on a single dimension!! Time appears linear to us. But one can cross over to other lines of time by moving through the 2nd temporal dimension. To do this a double-dimension time machine is required and masses of extra terms have to be added to the equations of Einstein.

How to be rid of the Cosmic Censor...

Now back to the paradox of the Father killed by his son. In five dimensions we can finally lay to rest our paradox as follows. The man travels back in time. In doing so he enters a reverse time, mirror image, of our Universe. When he starts moving forwards in time again, the same direction as ourselves, he is in an alternative Universe. There he is at liberty to kill the man who would have fathered not him, but his alternative in that Universe. There is then no paradox: his father, unmurdered, inhabits an entirely different Universe, some distance in the fifth dimension from the one in which the murder is committed. If there is a cosmic censor, his task now is simply to prevent time travelers getting back to their home Universes.

However, the cosmic censor can be put out of his job completely if we consider certain implications of quantum mechanics. It is possible that all particles may behave as fermions in relation to the temporal dimension, in which case we can refer to them as termions. If a particle is a termion then according to the space-time extension of the Pauli exclusion principle, no two termions with the same quantum numbers can exist in the same universe (strictly speaking the same time frame, which is basically the same thing). So to keep time travelers from getting back to their own Universes and causing no end of mayhem, you have to ensure that when time travel occurs all termion quantum numbers are changed and then the particles that make up the time travelers body cannot occupy the same universe again. If a time traveler ever approached his own universe with termion quantum numbers equal to those of another object in that universe then the Pauli time invariant exclusion force would push him or her through the fifth (or higher) dimension to a different universe, consistent with his or her termion quantum numbers. Even if repeated time travel events occur, the change in termion quantum numbers effectively mask out every universe than you ever come from. Further study will show that termion quantum numbers always change if you travel through the light barrier - we say they are exclusively time variant i.e. always change as opposed to Lorentz invariant quantities.

for full article : http://erntheburn.tripod.com/timetravel/timetravel.htm

right...aaaaaannnndddd....i still think its wrong...Time should be a sacred thing...SACRED

oh im not arguing with you Krow.


ps: Moe did not actually read the article himself. shhh

i didnt read it either...and shhhh...i have no idea what i'm talking about...jsut trying to post alot...and have a stance on something...

Attention all: that last post was a joke...of Course i know that i'm talking about...

and any way It's like the terminator movies, you can cange things in the past, but your only delaying the inevitable

no...i could go back in time to stop the World trade center from being built...then we wouldnt have had those awful tradgedies...

well...what if i went back in time and boarded the plane...with all these guns and stuff...and gave my life by crashing the plane into the other plane...

then they would hyjack other planes, It can't be stopped!
you can't change the inevitable!!!! for the last time!

I can change it...nothing is Inevidable...there is no such thing as fate...

But you can't change it To even suggest you can is ignoring the obvious fact that it occured...

The fact that you have yet to travel back in time now, does not negate the fact that (assuming you one day will) whatever intervention may have occured in the past already HAS occured.

While I don't deny it's possible for to hypothetically go back in time and influence events, the only effect they could possible have is whatever occured in recorded history.

If someone traveled back in time from the future and prevented 9/11 for example, then it would never have occured for us to remember it. The fact that it DID occur tells us that nobody from the future, even if an attempt was made, was successful at preventing it from occuring.

The past, obviously, is the past....it's already occured, and we're already aware of what happened in it. Just because you're coming back from a time further ahead than our own doesn't mean whatever events occured when you reached the past hasn't already happened.

Does that make any sense whatsoever? It seems simply enough to me, but I suppose it is...complicatedish

...Then nobody will remeber it...as long as it doesnt happen...

But, again, it already HAS happened. The fact that it did proves that nobody in the future will ever, could ever, or is ever going to prevent it. Just because they haven't traveled back in time yet by our point of veiw (assuming someone did) doesn't mean that they didn't appear in our past and make the attempt...which obviously failed.

Time machines are not yet invented...the person who could make the attempt might not even be born yet...but since the event occured in our past, the person has already made that attempt.

I have mentioned this before on other threads, so apologies if you've heard me say this before, but 'Time travel' does exist and has already been invented. Now before you pack me off to the funny farm, let me explain. The scientific term for it is Quatum Tunneling IIRC, and so far it only works on a sub atomic level. on top of this the particle can only go backwards in time, and only as far back as the equipment has been 'on' for. This is great news if your a sub atomic particle with an urge to see what the world was like 30 milliseconds ago, but not much use for the rest of us.

Finally some one sees my point!!!

how would we actually know the time contimium as been altered remember everything would change even folks knowledge.

can i still continue to say the same thing over and over again...just in different ways???

also if you kept changing the affect of some act of terrorism for example, then everytime it would change (obviously) in other worlds, stop the wtc & pentagon from being targets, then perhaps the white house or somewhere else, for every change there would be an infinate possible verse and adverse reactions, this would mean rediculously high amounts of things would happen, but if you got lucky and found a way to affect several things in different times, for example, make the east more powerful than the west or stop planes from being created then the western tragidies wouldn't have happaned.

Probly, but It's Impossible, we don't have a time machine!

Well...that's why it can't be altered. How do I put this...if you travel back from the future to a point in the past...then you have ALWAYS been at that point in the past. You don't suddenly randomly appear as part of an alternative....scratch that, here's another way of putting it.


Imagine time is a line...where X = the time traveler, and Y = a moment in time they intend to alter.


past-----(Y)--------present----------(X)future



Now, if X moves back in time to Y, then he does not simple 'appear' there. He's always been there...the very definition of time travel into the past would mean that he would be there before he undertook the journey in the future. Therefore event Y never occured without his involvement in some way or another.

therefore, time should actually be drawn....

past------(Y)(X)------present-------(X)Future

Now, since Y exists as a point in time, then it must have occured. For it to be part of recorded history whatever X attempted to prevent Y from occuring wasn't sucessful. If he had been successful, then Y would never have been recorded at all (since it never occured).

If a time traveler goes into the past, then how can a different 'branch' be created...whatever actions he took in the past have already occured, there was never a 'time' where he didn't appear. History has already taken his appearance into account. If we are able to remember an event, then it means that the event, with or without attempts to prevent it, happened. You can't change them.

Good Point...and i will follow up that good point with a pos that says...Good point...

just think, back to the future or red dwarf (the episode where they mess with JFK's death) if they kept jumping around changing things then there would be many copies of them also i believe that there can't just be one point in time but an infinate amount all at different points in time, ranging from a few milly secs behind our time or a few million years behinde us?

also everything can be done, nothing is impossible, after all if it was then whats the point of it? all we can say is we don't know how to or we can't do it yet prolly due to tech?

just look at aids, we can't cure it (yet)!
does that mean there isn't a cure?

another good point...

furthermore what happens if you put the time line on a graph paper then there would be no set point for an x/y/z axis any and all can be those meaning that you could put varying time lines say with different length lines...etc on all the lines this would then link in with parralel dimensions as each line would after have a link with the line that come before it.

No, I have every confidence that one day we will cure it. However, there is a difference between taking a course that will shape the future (which has no occured) and taking one that will shape the past (which has occured).

Let me put it this way...if we're too assume time travel is possible...and that, in the future, someone will travel back in time and say...kill Hitler before world for two...

Then Hitler would have died before world war two

The past has already occured...just because that person has yet to go back in time does no mean that they have not already appeared in the past, and done whatever they were going to do.

The fact that Hitler did not die before world war two obviously means that, if any such attempt is ever going to be made, it wasn't sucessful

if i may...i still think Playing with time is wrong...i dont thint its a) morally correct or b ) Physically possible...

lol, nor do I...I think, if it was possible to time travel, then there would be some signs of people from the future trying to interfere left right and center (emphasis on 'trying')

so... then obviously "john Titor" is a bullsh--er...right?

He has produced so much bull sh*t with any given one of his stories that he is without a shadow of a doubt the most crap talking, fly attracting, stench creating, rubbish spewing, contempt inspiring lump of left over oven grease walking the earth today

man, if jhon tutir or who-ever is really telling the truth, what does it mean?
IF HES TELLING THE TRUTH!!

Seraphina...i love the way you Insult people...it reminds me of one of my Rants that i go on in school...

sheesh. Moe is quite lost. how can anyone presume to think that time travel is not and never will be possible ??. the future hasnt even happened yet! How can you say, oh well gee, if it was possible than howcome 911 happened? The only thing there is proof of right now is, RIGHT NOW. The present. If and when a time machine ever prevents 911 then it will affect time after the time machine is built. But untill the time machine is built, then nothing can possibly happen. We aint gonna see sh** cuz right now, the future hasnt happened yet!!

*bangs head on keyboard*
dlfkbhf;dsgj;dslghk;hjf;h;fdhj

*nods and smiles*

the future hasent happened??? the future has happened...i've probably already typed this in the future...it has happened...and we will never travel in time...

IF we were to assume that time travel were possible.
AND
IF someone in the future invested the time and money to develop it.

Couldn't we then assume that these people would want to preserve their own way of life and therefore would avoid changing anything they came in contact with, regardless of the outcome?

Regardless of how terrible an event may be, in order to preserve their own way of life, these people would not be able to intervene. The effects of their interference, if it were to occur, could be cataclysmic to their own timeline.

SO, there could be time travelers visiting without our knowledge. They most likely wouldn't want their presence discovered, IF they were around.

How conspiracy theorist minded does that sound?

Well...yes, I'd agree with that. However, you'd likely find at least a few individuals who'd try and interfere in some way or another to further the power of themselves or their family in the future...

However, my arguement is that any changes that may have been made in the past have already occured. You cannot change the past...the fact that we are able to remember an event occuring negates the possibility of anyone EVER having stopped it.

They could be coming from tommorow, next month, or a thousand years in the future, any attempt to influence the past has already been made, because the past has already happened. The point or origin doesn't matter, they're heading for the same destination.

I think the body can't handle the travel through time, their body would Either rot, or shrink until they are only a few cells...

How did you come to this conclusion dan?

If they were travelling time they would most likely stay the same as when they left.

Hey, time travel is possible, at least in a very distant future. However they cannot go back to our time, because they can only go back as far as the first time the time machine was made. That's the reason why we don't see any of them arround, because OUR time is still stable, without any time machines.

By the time the first time machine is built, then the world is going to be a lot different. It is going to be a future without history. And also the person holding the first, oldest time machine is going to be the most powerful being alive, but people from the future will come back and kill him so that the time machine is going to fall to their hand, but in turn these people from the future is going to be killed by the people from their further future, which is in turn going to be killed by.... OK, I'm lost

But this is definitely make another good science fiction novel.