wow how beautiful Son....

God bless you, Dlv.

Something that Son said, & he's exactly right- We don't go through these pains for nothing. It's relied on us to take what's left, what we've learned through the process & use what we've taken from it to help one another.

There is something powerful about walking out of something so terribly painful, and saying "it only made me stronger."

Thanks, Sheri.

Yours is one of those stories that just leaves me amazed at the amount of forgiveness we are capable of.

Uuuuf, it was hard to find this thread. I wanted to post on this one long but couldn't because I didn't know what to say and because I was studying for my exams (finished them all on Tuesday so I'm a free man now. WOOHOO!! ).

For me Grace is THE gift we receive from God. The gift given to us without any particular merit and thanks to it we connect closer to Him. There are times when we feel it easily, other times where we can't feel it, but it's always there. Always.
For me the feeling it carries is something like an inner peace, a feeling of "You know? I've got issues, but you're always there with me, God, and that's all that matters. Things are gonna be fine" , and let God drive your life. Whatever you do, do it with God every step of the way. Once you have it, you're not gonna be same forever, as cliché as it sounds.
And a consequence of having this gift is doing the right thing to others, not because of "What they'll say?" or because you expect a reward, but because of love. Doing the right thing, no matter what.


I know the description is kinda vague, but it's something so personal, so great, so awesome (yeah, even more than Chuck Norris ), that it goes beyond words. It ain't easy to say what it is, but once it's there, you just know it.

There have been many great posts here:
True, thanks for bringing this subject up. It's so easy to get caught up in stupid s*** like the petty fights that so many times pop up in these boards that when something like this shows up, it's just a breath of fresh air, to see how somebody just nails what this is all about. Kudos to you.
Sunni: Your post was awesome. The strength you showed is an example for everybody, incluiding myself. You rock girl.
Jor-El: The post about your experience in the seminary, when you would get so frustrated that you shouted at God "WHY?!" touched me. You wouldn't know the number of times I've been in that exact situation, although in my case it's related to my career that I completely hate. Kudos to you too
Tetisheri: I feel for you girl. Your post was very very great. You rock!
The rest of the people that have posted here, you know who you are

Finally:

I felt that in person. I was in Rome at that time because it was the 20th anniversary of my school (St. Francis of Assisi was the name of my school). So, that September 10th, 2003, the day after my brother's birthday, there I was in the Vatican waiting for his "conference", you know, the ones he usually did on Wednesday in front of thousands of people.
When I saw him, I couldn't believe it. Yeah, he was old, but he looked worse than he appeared. Really, he was really f***** up. Shaking the whole time, hunched back, fragile voice. Awful. And yet there he was, like he was driven by some... force. Some... conviction. Grace you could call it. That was the most impressive thing I remember about him that day, more than what he said.

Perhaps because i am a little unclear on the application of the term grace as it is seen as part of salvation, (this seems to be a modern American religious concept ;perhaps fundamentalist, but it seems a bit too easy for fundamentalists) it seems to me that The OP may be confusing two separate concepts.

One is the way we should act (as jesus did) as part of our loving relationship with him. While not necessary in itself for salvation this is a logical outcome of true acceptance of christ as our saviour. And yes i agree we should always try to live our life filled with this type of grace.

The second idea is that we are saved through the grace of god via the washing away of our sins, through the blood sacrifice of Christ. This opens the way for all to accept salvation, but this single act of grace, in itself, does not guarantee salvation for all.

There are a range of other biblical requirements, starting with acceptance and repentance, which are needed for the sacrifice to be effective in an individual's life. Thus our life, while motivated by grace, should also be based around the biblical requirements of following christ's example, and meeting the ongoing requirements to be ready either when he returns to earth or when we die.

thankyou for your very kind words...

Although you are correct from a purely academic perspective or should I say biblical, I think the kind of grace that people have mentioned on this thread deal more with how that grace affects and influences our daily lives. To put it simply, it is the strength that God gives us to face each new day, to overcome the daily temptation to give in or give up.

That, I think is actually what touches peoples lives and they can relate to that in a more personal way than with facts, no matter how correct they are concerning "Grace" and its biblical definition...

I'm may be going out on a limb here but this is merely my take on what I've read...

One of the parts of grace is accepting the sacrifice. And many people find that very hard to do because they are overwhelmed by shame constructs.

Or their hearts are simply not ready to admit that they can't do it all by themselves... Besides shame there is also pride and arrogance.

Thanks for that Jorel! That's how I see it, personally. That's how I relate to grace.

"...the influence or spirit of God operating in humans to regenerate or strengthen them."

source

I believe this to be true; an energy that fills you to help you regenerate and strengthen to get through seriously tough times.

My stories are still too raw to talk about. I may, however, post a poem. It so much easier for me to let out things through poetry.

Indeed, but when we speak of grace; we shouldn't limit it to courage and love. For these are terms that can have an outward direction; toward the external from within. Compassion is a key part of grace; an act by which two parties suffer as one. That God suffered with us makes the courage and love of Jesus internal among us as well. The grace that was provided in Jesus was not just simply a legalistic transaction on our behalf; but it was the taking up of humanity and uniting us with God once more; reconciling the fallen humanity that started with Adam to God through Jesus.

Grace is not just dieing for us. Grace is taking us up on your behalf when we don't deserve it and can't earn it.

Yes, Jesus did pay the penalty of sin for us. But what God did was incarnate himself as a man among humanity, lived, and then died; doing all that men did. In this, he took up humanity on our behalf, succeeded for us where we failed, died as we did, and unified us once and for all with the Father. Then he was resurrected, so that his union with God on our behalf is an eternal union. That makes grace seem more than a courageous and caring act of sacrifice, but it makes it an act of compassion; in which God took up our humanity on our behalf and suffered with us in our suffering; making God a first hand Savior from within and without, instead of just from without.

Grace from within and grace from without.

Yes, I would say that is a very real truth that people can live with and live by.

Bless your heart, Shera... I understand what you mean- writing has a powerful way of releasing pain & thoughts... it's healthy.. productive.
just in case you ever need anyone don't hesitate to let me know, you hear?!! :}

<hugs>

Thanks Jorel. Yes that makes sense, and fits the context of what other posters were saying. I would call that form of grace; the power of the holy spirit, and it is probably separate again from the two other forms I mentioned. I guess I am both an academic and a biblical "scholar", which is why i looked at the term from that perspetive, but grace in the form of the holy spirit is indeed the most powerful element of one's relationship with god on a day to day basis. It can be both life saving, and life altering.

Thanks hun. Much love, Jody