no, im sorry. it doesnt.
the whole concept/idea of it just doesnt seem to make any sense.

Agent Mulder: I assume you havn't tried then?

I'm not sure what your definition of it "working" is either, but if it means "movement of pointer of ouija board to spell out words and stories (or movement of pen on paper for the same) without moving the pointer (or pen) on purpose to spell out what you want" I can't only disagree, but tell you that you're really wrong

Now the source of this movement certainly can be discussed, and also vary, but from personal experience I can tell you that not only does it "work" but it also can give you information there is no way in the deepest darks of heck you could have known about, things that can be checked and verified.

As an example I once got in touch with a person, whom I asked the name of, and I got back what I thought was "gibberish". I communicated for a while and turned out I was talking to someone who claimed to have lived many years ago and he also named the place - which also seemed like "gibberish" to me and meant nothing. I actually thought it was just nonsense first myself as well. Then I got the idea to google those gibberish words I had gotten just for fun. Not only did it exist, but it turned out that the name of the person was a real name, it turned out to be a person that had gone missing, and it turned out that the location of the place the person said he had died existed as well, and it was the name of a lake somewhere in somewhere in a specific country.

And I've had several cases like that where I was able to check up and verify things I was told by these "people" some dating thousands of years back. Some of them have been contacted several times to get further information, and I am still working on getting more information on them as it's some pretty extraordinary stories with details coming forth that I know nothing about until I research it and find out that indeed its facts.

How such information can be received, well I'll leave that speculation up for you.

What is the name and place of that person who went missing?

lmao. no i have. thats the only reason im saying its they dont. im not one to sit around, Never play a sport, but Claim that sport sucks and is easy to play. im not an ignorant a$$hole.



fine youve got me on that one. i Know the piece moves. mainly due ti the users. quick and subtle muscle twitches we dont realize were doing, and people just subconsciously moving it to what they Think it would say.



it tells you what you Want it too. why? because youre the one doing it. why doesnt a spirit just take control of ou whenever it wants and use a pen and paper to communiate? why not start typing a message to you on the pc? because they dont, because this doesnt work. what kind of spirit needs you there to do that for them? when they can apparently control the movements Already, by Themselves. why do you think the bottom of the ouija device that you put your hands on usually has felt at the bottom? its so you can move it. i doubt a spirit or ghost would really need something that. it doesnt make sense.



forgive me if i dont believe a story i read on a discussion forum.



the point isnt whether or not they come out as facts, what its really about is: "does this ouija board work, if i blindfold myself, and then let my friend put the ouija board in any position in front of me, and then ask it questions"
what should happen here? a Real ouija board...jibberish.

Agent Mulder:
Like I said, once you get information you can't know about and get it verified, there's little doubt left on it "working" or not.

And yes, people subconsciously moving the pointer can be ONE of several different causes.

Also to answer, or rather comment on your "ghosts do not need that" when it comes to the felt thing etc, the whole point with the ouija board is to have it as smooth and easy to move as possible, due to the fact you are letting the entities communicate THROUGH you using YOUR body, in this case your hands, and this is not an easy thing for a spirit to do but through the help of your physical body and your mind which serves as the connection, it is easier. Thinking that the entity is actually moving the pointer is absurd, then it would be no need putting your fingers on it in the first place, and the entity would need really great telekinetic powers which is not very common.

Also I have to take of my hat for you, it seems you have never heard of automatic writing or even automatic typing. Whole books have been channeled through both means, in addition to Ouija boards. It's the same principle there, you let the spirit control your hand through the connection you make with it by your mind.

Sure you could argue the same thing about these things but apparently you've not looked very much into the subject of channeling etc since you seem to be unaware of this and claiming that it is not being done.

And yes it does work with blindfolding as well, as IronGhost has pointed out in several of his posts. Of course you need some observer to take notes in such cases.

Out of curiosity how many times did you actually try Ouija boards? And with how many different people? I suggest you try some more at least before deciding it is not "working" =)

My point is not to try convince you that it is "real", I'm just letting you know my personal experiences and I have no reason to lie about it as I'm not selling ouija boards or anything related to it

Rosewin: Sorry but I dont feel it would be right of me to just give out that information without permission to do so. And even if I did give it out it would not prove anything, I could easily have just found some random missing person on the net and given you the name and location of that person so it's rather irrelevant. And yes, for all you know that could be what I did, or maybe I just made the whole story up - only I know that for real =)

But suffice to say, I got better things to do than sitting on online forums and making up silly stories.

-

Conclusion - The above is how I see it from my personal experience with the matter and if you believe in it or not is totally up to anyone. For me it has proven to be a real in either case.

Best luck to anyone who want to try ouija boards and similar things.

-EA

true dat



too much of it is convenient, when it comes to 'talking' to the spirits and how its done.
and why wouldnt spirits just do this normally? why not just hop down, and make someone write note? because they cant pretty much. its only when you use a device that allows you to subconsciously move it yourself.
im not talking poltergiests, but when you 'summon' them yourself. i havent read any accounts of someone saying a spirit just started typing on my pc through me (and still, how can one possibly know this is Spirit, and not the person themselves doing it?)



thats interesting, id like to read more on the books. although it seems when people do it blindfolded on the board, it comes out as jibberish.



i was claiming that because while searching i found Nothing on the subject. although ill look into now. Still, its not like anyone can tell the Spirit is actually writing this, if its a single person. with a group of 5, blindfolded, holding a single pen? or all of them on the keyboard at the same time. id be interested as to how that comes out. espeically if its a spirit from the 1500s, and we ask them to use the pc. maybe someone did it already.



ive just seen jibberish so far. and im not sure im willing to take them Seriously, because they told me it works on a discussion board. doesnt lend much credence to what they claimed happened.



no, i tried a few times with my buddy because we heard others talk about it obviously. nothing happened for us, which made me think this Really doesnt work. because were doing all the work here, and moving this object thats Supposed to be able to move easily through our unnoticable muscles movements. and our Own biased opinions.



as a mod on here, id hope not



ever ask them anything of Real value? like is there a god? whats heaven like? can you see my grandma, if so whats their name? is there a hell as well? and any personal questions should be asked by people who would have NO idea, not the individual asking about grandma, when they know her name.

I have used spirit boards, both commercially produced and personally created, with 2-4 people present, with one, some or all of those people touching the traveler during a session, and our group did about a week's worth of experiments blindfolded and rotating the board etc.

I can from personal experience report that on average, I estimate that during a "normal session", we had about a 70% activity rate (about 30% of the time, the traveler just sat there), but that is lowered probably 10-20% (hard to say) if you eliminate total nonsense, stuttering and anchoring (where it goes back and forth between the same few letters), so say we had a 50% *significant response* rate.

Blindfolding the users and rotating the board lowered this slightly, probably to about 30%, but we still usually got not only activity, but coherent activity, as we always had a "scribe" taking note of the letters selected, and we did get relevant and correctly spelled answers, though they were usually shorter than when no one was blindfolded.

I personally found that I had the best results from homemade Ouija boards, made on a tablet of art/charcoal paper and covered with a square pane of glass with a CD for a traveler, or even a board drawn on the back of a big piece of cardboard using a pog slammer as the traveler. I was however, the weakest member of the group, when it came to board responses, and the board usually only worked for me if my partner for the session was one of the more forceful and outgoing (and usually believing) personalities.

I've also done quite a few pages of loose-association automatic writing and gotten works claiming to be from spirits. To top all this off, I personally don't at present believe in spirits or spirit communication, and agree that the results of automatistic devices are the result of ideomotor effect, with the outside chance of minor psychic functioning for those times when an accurate result is acquired which can not be satisfactorily accounted for.

I don't need to ask them about that as I already know the answer Been traveling around some myself and yes there's a heaven and there's a hell and many things in between. I don't know if I could see your grandma as I've never tried and I doubt I will, there's more interesting things for me to do than contacting other peoples grandmas lol. Havn't even used the ouija board in almost a year now as I mostly do things through other means.



I guess you still don't understand this part. I will try to explain it again but in a different way: The spirits do not have some amazing supernatural powers that make them able to just possess random people as they wishes, would be total chaos and we'd all be insane then - the universe and all its realms works in a system, even though parts of it may seem chaotic at points when observing from a personal viewpoint. You have to let the spirit access to your mind for it to be able to do anything through you (with a few exceptions). So yes you are right with the part about them not being able to just "hop down and make someone write note" as you state, as they need a open channel to get through, to put it like that. Some people keep their doors locked and just opens up for people they know, other people keep the doors unlocked and may get unwanted visitors, and then you have some that has lost their key and either can't open the door or lock it at all =)

Also my experiences with the spirit world go way beyond mere ouija board experiences so for me the confirmation on this being real is not based on ouija boards and related alone but couple decades of involvement, experiences and experiments with a huge area of occult arts.

And to answer your last question in the quote above, "how can you know it is a spirit and not the person themselves?" - once you've gotten the right experience, done your experiments, seen the evidence and verifications from your own involvement with it, and understand your true being and how things work, you'll know. Unfortunately not all people ever get the right experiences or evidence or they are just too lazy to try long enough or properly.

And yes, when reading about other peoples experiences with spirits or hearing claims about what spirits have told them, in the end it is of little value, only personal experience with such things will be really worth anything. Even though I know these things are real do not mean I automatically believe everyone else's experiences with such as there will always be people that makes things up, or have just been in contact with their subconscious mind, and some people are simply mentally ill - among other things.

A suggestion for you and your ouija thing, perhaps you should try some more with other people involved than just one buddy - some people are better "channelers" than others, as Jpatt mention in his post (Even though he do not think it's got anything to do with spirits but rather with psychic phenomenas - which I actually agree can be the cause of some of such experiences).

Again that's my view from my experiences and I wish you best of luck with your own

-EA

I would just like to say that, after reading a few of your threads, and your column, IronGhost, I've joined. Why did I join?

Because I REALLY want to know what MOMMY has to say about cats.

Really.

(And some of this has been the most interesting stuff I've read in awhile.)

?

Awhile back in this thread, he said something to the effect that MOMMY has quite a fixation with cats, and, as such, is a wealth of information on them (in ways we didn't really think possible, I guess).

It was more of a comedy response? I joined because I started reading his transcripts and then I wanted more.

Plus I really do want to know if there's a possibility that my doofus cat is part of some highly regarded order somewhere else in the vast ocean of the universe. Is that so wrong?

I think alot of folks havent read the entire thread. I for one, love IronMan's writings, he is an amazing writer and man. MOMMY IN THE NOTHING CHAMBER is one character I will never forget..JN

Hi everybody:

I've been brutally busy lately -- extensive traveling, working, blah, blah, blah -- and sadly unable to keep up to date here with this thread, and other UM stuff.

I will double and triple my efforts to come back here and contribute more -- I still want to, at the very least, post the final installment of the Guardian Angel bit --

Thanks everyone for reading, and for comments nice or critical -- it's all good!

A super happy shout-out to my old friend JustNormal, and many positive thoughts to Keltron -- welcome to UM!

Iron

P.S. If anyone goes to the news stand or a bookstore and finds FATE Magazine, I have an article in it this month. It's FATE's 700th, 60th Anniversary issue.

I'm so happy that you are going to be more active, IronGhost!

we're still waiting for your book, dear

((Ken)) SO nice to see you friend. I will check that magazine out asap. Cant wait to read more of you..JN

Glad to hear from you again, woot woot! LOL Welcome back, got any new stories for us? I sure havn't much new stories yet, damn taps team hasn't gotten back to me quiet yet....
....but anyways....

Im not so sure it the Ouiji board but maybe the people 'playing' I think it may just be an average board and its the people using it that seems to bring forth these spirits. With some people it works and others it does not.. same as some have psychic ability and others dont, some dont even realize they have psychic abilities. Maybe some just have more open minds than others which will also influence your sit down with the ouiji board..

Its such a mystery, there is still so much for us to learn

I don't use this kind of stuff. I don't want a ghost in my house.

You are very wise..

chances are its not gonna bring one over to you anyways.

Sorry if I just repeat what others have said, but I believe oui-ja is a loss of time for people who want to get answers of any kind. Most of the time, it's autosuggestion and wishful thinking. Sometimes, it's just dangerous.

I didn't practise a lot myself, but my cousins have been doing that for years, and they got eerie results – like, as they told me, one of the summoned beings starting to 'drink' water from the sink (they were playing oui-ja in the bathroom, in order to hide from their parents). Finally, my cousins – who are Muslim – stopped messing with that. Muslims eventually believe you can't call human souls by using spiritualism. You contact jinn or genies instead, which are creatures made of fire, second to angels (which are made of light) in God's creation. But while angels are good, jinn are almost exclusively evil or, at best, tricky. For instance, they believe Eblis – Satan – is actually a jinn. In Muslim traditional beliefs, all people on earth have their jinn counterpart. So when one tries to contact someone, one summons his jinn instead. I like the interpretation, for it would explain why the 'oui-ja people' always seem to have fun with us, telling nonsense or building crazy Lovecraftian theories about plans of existence etc.