Hi She-ra...The main page is what you see when you sign on to UM...I'm pretty sure thats where Iron is going to put the articles..Or if you go right to forums, it's all the way on the top...Hope this helped...I'm still trying to figure out how to get a picture under my signature

Okay thatnks hun.

The pic in the signature. First you have to upload it into say photobucket (any image hosting site) then copy the image code and add it in your sig. Voila!!

Aweeeeeeeee that's so sweet JN-HE compared us to MOMMY!!!! I love you Iron , Jody

alas more selective listening ... future white house press secretary? .....B











halfhandshuffle:The Turtles-Happy Together
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSV1URdtgTc

As the teenagers are wont to say... "whatever"

I thought so ....B








halfhandshuffle:Missing Persons - Words
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNU_wyQbAv4

I'm so happy we found a common ground upon which to agree.

AWWWWWWWWWWWWW What a sweet thing to say Iron, and I mean that. I love being a MOMMY and cherish every moment of it. Maybe that is why I loved OUR MOMMY she is the epitomy of motherhood. She is sweet, kind, devoted, protective, compassionate with a heart of gold, and lastly she has the best advice. I am SO sorry about you Mother, and I am sure she is watching over you every day of your life, and PLUS she would be proud of the man you have become. (((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))

I know JN!!! Isn't he the coolest EVER???? We love you IronGhost!!!

Yes. It is just as plausible as any other mode of automatistic mediumship. Saying that you doubt its authenticity is not the same as saying it doesn't make sense. It makes sense, and repeating the word "nonsense" over and over doesn't change the logic of it, and other than tossing this word around, you've given absolutely no reason to think it actually is nonsensical. It is just a bald assertion-- a prior assumption of yours, a question you are begging, and if others refuse to grant it, don't be so surprised. A proposition is not "nonsense" just because you have personally rejected it, no matter how convenient it is for you to say so.

That the board is mass-produced from cheap manmade materials is completely irrelevant to the question of whether or not authentic spirit communication ever takes place through its use. If it is handmade from exotic wood instead, we may assume that the mechanism of its use is the same, unless we are given reason to think otherwise. You consistently fail to give us any such reason, relying instead on a tone of ridicule as if that proves your case. It simply doesn't. So you might forgive some of us for failing to be persuaded.

If you don't like it, then stop the ridicule and simply make your case. I'm sure there are plenty of good reasons to doubt the authenticity of messages that arrive via the Ouija board. It's unnecessary and (as you've seen) counterproductive to discuss the topic in such condescending terms. Just state the case.

And I think this is where your problem lies, because from what you've written, I see no indication that you've put the case together. Instead, it seems to come down to what you've told us many times: You simply don't believe in the possibility of afterlife communication, at least not through the Ouija board (and possibly not at all, but please feel free to clarify). And every time you repeat that as if it proves anything, I've wanted to ask you one thing: who gives a damn what you believe? And who gives a damn what I believe? What matters is the facts and how they might and might not be explained. What we personally are inclined to think may be of personal interest to ourselves and our friends, but it has absolutely no bearing on whether or not a given proposition is true or makes sense. To me it seems as if you propose otherwise, which could provide a clue as to why you've gotten such responses as you have.

I think nearly all of us would agree that we needn't resort to the "spirit" hypothesis to explain most communications that come through the Ouija board. Indeed, I think most of us would be inclined to strongly doubt that any given case of such communication is authentic. Therefore, I think you've mischaracterized the predominant attitude here with the term "hardcore spiritualism." But that doesn't mean we are in any position to rule out the possibility that authentic spirit communication might ever occur through the Ouija. The way to figure it out for real is by forming logical theories and hypotheses and then testing them via systematic observation-- not by huffing and puffing about "nonsense," "urban legends," "hardcore spiritualism," and so on.

So this is an invitation to drop such language and to participate seriously in considering a serious topic.

The Ouija bord is just a toy.


To prove this, simply try it blindfolded for some time, having an innocent bystander take notes on what letters are selected. The result will be unintelligible non-sense.

The movement of the planchette is not due to paranormal forces but to unnoticeable movements by those controlling the pointer, known as the ideomotor effect. Not to mention that some members in the group that moves the pointer consciously.

The ideomotor effect is a psychological phenomenon wherein a subject makes motions unconsciously, especially while attributing the motion to a paranormal or supernatural force in which he/she believes.

Unexplained phenomena such as automatic writing, dowsing, facilitated communication, and Ouija boards can be attributed to the ideomotor effect.

http://www.answers.com/topic/ideomotor-effect

another selection from The Hazzard Skeptic Formletter Archives

Mr Halfhand





halfhandshuffle:Anthrax-Anti-social
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t0affoV5rI

Hazzard's famous copypasta again. Still an inadequate substitute for actual thought.

Hazzard, as always, you fail to explain exactly what you mean to prove by referencing the above experiment, and how. So it doesn't really merit a response. But here's one anyway.

Almost everyone who looks into the matter is aware that Ouija messages come about through the ideomotor effect, and the operator(s) must usually see the board in order to spell messages correctly. The only theory that the referenced experiment "disproves" is that a spirit moves the planchette via psychokinesis on a board that it sees via clairvoyance. To my knowledge, not one serious investigator proposes such a theory. Not one. This argument is like trying to "disprove" evolution by refuting Lamarckian inheritance of acquired characteristics. It is a way of winning an argument that does not in fact exist and using that to draw a conclusion that is not in fact warranted.

To my knowledge, the results described above are entirely consistent with the current view of the mechanism by which "spirit communications" might be spelled out on the Ouija board, if in fact they ever are. In brief, the "messages" are said to enter the operator's mind(s) at an unconscious level, and he, she, or they spell out the messages unconsciously via the ideomotor effect. In fact, "ideomotor effect" is just a more precise and scientific term for "automatism." Having renamed the thing is not proving that it doesn't exist. Quite the opposite.

Hazzard, I have rebutted your broken-record copy-paste job before, and you have never responded that I have noticed. Is this another thoughtless drive-by pasting, or are you actually interested in discussing this?

Added: Penn and Teller are show magicians, and their cable TV show is an entertainment product. Just an afterthought.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yes...::waving to Shera::::::::::::

Depends how many times a Ouija board experiment has been carried out...For seasoned users ie, using the board regularly over a period of time, say at least a 100 times, will understand when I say that you do start to develop a feel for the energy and it way it moves and not every single time will be a spirit connection. But when it happens you'll know it by feel... From personal use over a period of 15 years I'd say it's 50/50 - any true experiment into Ouija board sessions needs to be carried out regularly over a period of time not just once or twice..

There's also the thing with combinations of people, it works better with some and not others. From an energy/focus/channeling point of view this is pretty obvious why.

Yea what he said!

Yea I double what he said!!

Give me a time for tonight. ((you know our "date")) lmao... now everyone's going to think we're lesbians. WE'RE NOT!!

LOL Ok then I triple what he said (BTW still waiting for them ugh)..Going to be a very long night..

I'm new here in case people haven't seen me before.

Anyway, I've always wanted to try a ouija board but my parents wouldn't let me have one in the house. They're skeptics so why can I not buy one? I might just sneak one in the house sometime. I live in the north east of england.....Does anyone know where I can get a ouija board?

P.S. I look forward to meeting a lot of people on here.

Forgot to ask..........Do online ouija boards work?

I tried but had no luck. Even on the internet, they still have warnings for online ouija boards. Has anyone tried the online one's and had any success?

Hi SilverSoul, and a huge welcome to you. I love England -- I visit there occasionally, and always have a great time. The U.K. is a great country.

Anyway, you should be able to purchase an Ouija Board online quite easily. You probably will even find one on eBay. You can also make your own, however. I think some online sites offer "printable Ouija Boards."

Wow, "online ouija boards" certainly stirs the imagination when considering the meaning of "online predators."

Nicely said boorite. You're my new hero here. I have to learn to write more posts like that ... that'll shut anyone up.


Gene

I was going to say the same thing, Gene. But I didn't want to start another barroom brawl. By the way, how's your head?

he doesn't reply because he can't find a cut and paste that fits the question...imho Mr Harrard is the perfect representative of a typical UM skeptic....B


haflhandshuffle:Godsmack - Keep Away
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olmlEaMf2wg

Lol, it's fine now.



Exactly .... there are only a very few really good skeptics compared to the number of wanna be good skeptics here. That's well said too Barek.



Gene

Copy and paste?
Is it this one?
Click to view attachment
Got it from Googa board.

Good point...there are some (much needed) objective skeptics here as well... if you all want the truth, this stuff scares Hazzard to death! ...call it a hunch...B








halfhandshuffle:Van Halen-Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv46Jvgp6x8...ted&search=

Indeed and they're great at what they do. I love reading their posts.
Where'd Hazzard go?


Gene

Ouija boards are pretty easy to find, but the mom in me says I have to tell you not to sneak behind your parents' backs. You know they will eventually catch you and you will be in trouble. Once you get caught sneaking behind their backs, it takes a while before they will trust you, and they will watch you closer.

Boorite makes some excellent points.

Let me add: As someone who has been using the Ouija for 4 decades, there has never been a time when I have not been conscious of the so-called ideometer effect -- or the idea that users are moving the planchette subconsciously.

I think there are many times when many of my own sessions can be explained completely in terms of this effect.

However, when one delves into this deeply -- year after year, decade after decade, performing hundreds to thousands of sessions -- you really start getting into some deeper waters, and the more you stay at it, the weaker and weaker the ideometer effects explanation becomes, for many reasons which I won't get into here.

Also, there is an excellent scientific model which is more than adequate to account for the vast information that can be found on the other side of the board -- just one of which is the brilliant quantum theorist David Bohm idea of an "Implicate Order" of the Universe.

Bohm points out that a set of paired particles will maintain their communication with each other, match each other's spin, for example-- even though they are separated by thousands of years, or billions of miles of space in the Universe.

The fact that communication is instantaneous means that Einstein's speed of light law is being broken -- so the explanation needed is that their is a deeper dimension which lies beneath our ordinary four-dimensional view of space time which keeps everything connected.

To make a long story short -- Bohm says there is a "basic ground" to the universe, which is like a plenum -- everything in the Universe, including individual human consciousness, is tapped into this "ground" and thus is communication with every other part of the Universe. Some scientists propose that this ground is the Zero Point Field -- which is known to be distributed everywhere in the Universe, and is made up of pure quantum fluctuation.

Thus, when I open up my mind and consciousness with the Quija Board -- even if my subconscious is being used -- it cannot be said that my subconscious mind is operating in a vacuum, or is lodged only in the meat of my human brain. My consciousness is inextricably connected to All That Is via the Zero Point Field, or Bohm's "Absolute Ground of All Existence."

Since the Zero Point Field is pure information, or the perfect medium for containing information -- it's like the Grand Central Station of consciousness. It's easy to see how there can be billions of other conscious entities all tapped into the Zero Point Field -- and that communication between each other is possible.

The ideomoter effect is based on an out-moded Newtonian and reductionist model of the Universe which views all physical objects and being distinctly separate from each other in space and time. This is simply not the case. The fact is, our minds and consciousness are connected to All That IS via the medium of the ground base of existence, which is the quantum fluctuation, Zero Point Field, plenum, or whatever you want to call it.

This is more than enough to account for legitimate Ouija Board communications that are coming at us from all points of the universe.

I like IronGhost's last post about the use of the Ouija board itself (well, everything but his use of the letter Q) and I am very convinced that the Bohm/quantum mechanics angle is definitely related to the paranormal, likely on all levels.


I appreciate Boorite's response as well and acknowledge I, like anyone else, is prone to bias but worse, to not present a more thorough objective "case", but to make posts sometimes driven by frustration as much as any other ideal or intent. I will state, as I mentioned when I first started posting but probably not clearly enough to solidly establish my position, that my opinion of the Ouija boards is based on personal experience and opinion, as arrived at from said experience and extrapolation of other experiences I've witnessed or read about, and perhaps most ... "inflexibly", this is all admittedly colored by what I see as a lack of reason or logic to support the spirit hypothesis.


As for ideomotor effect, I do still contend it accounts for 100% of all Ouija cases - I don't think it can be argued that the sitters/users are definitely the ones supplying the hands and muscles and in contact with the board and traveller. The origin of the impulses and such that are generated, I suppose, is really the issue.


Now I myself have used the Ouija enough to have a good handle on the ins and outs, certainly not "hundreds of thousands" of times but probably close to a hundred I'd guess, and I have seen both users blindfolded and the board positioning randomly switched (or left as it was) at random intervals and we still received about the same level of coherent results as with no blindfolds.


I have seen the board, used by two other people while I was merely present, standing at the table, reveal specific and obscure information about a book I had read the night before and which I had discussed with no one and which the rest of the group had no knowledge. I've seen a different combination of sitters correctly identify the maiden name of one of the sitter's great grandmothers, which even he had to look up and verify. I have seen the revelation of a group "interpersonal crisis" wherein one of the group had attempted to splinter his "bad" side and suppress it, and this bad side (which he ill-advisedly named) popped up on the board as a "shade", much to the surprise of everyone, especially the person in question who then had to come clean as to why he found this thing's name to be so significant.


We had one session where we "contacted" a "board personality" (as I call them) who it turns out, claimed to be another living person who was using the Ouija board and was asking us questions like "when did you die?". During our various sessions, I've seen, week after week sometimes, a ceiling fan begin spinning while turned off (in fact, spinning faster than the lowest "on" setting) and various other "impossible" feats having to do with electronics in the house, even an interior door mysteriously "ripped" off his hinges (while no one was present apparently) with no knowledge or explanation by anyone over the entire course of all the time we were in that location.


These and various other experiences lead me to believe that on rare occasion, some psychic functioning (albeit spontaneously) may occur in relation to Ouija use, but, despite the fact that the house this took place in was directly across a barely two-lane country street from the local cemetery, I still find no evidence whatsoever to support any claims of ghosts or spirits or demons or anything of the sort. To me, you would apply the same rationality to an "entity" that you would anyone else.

Assuming one would be bold or obnoxious enough to just dial a random number on the telephone and start asking questions to the person on the other end, or to someone you stop in the street, or whatever other remotely similar scenario you'd care to imagine, there is only so much credence you give to the other person without some sort of concrete, objective confirmation and being able to gauge that person as consistent, trustworthy, etc. Con men, for example, are all about identity fraud and misrepresentation. Being that there are usually at least two living and creative human minds (capable of a lot of things we might not ordinarily do or think) at work with a Ouija board, it does not seem logical to assume or decide that a board personality is a ghost or spirit or whatever, because it says so, or even if it doesn't.

And no, online Ouija board do not "work", if you are asking if they "perform" the same as actual tabletop ones with two or more real users. They are pre-programmed to generate certain combinations and words and are wholly without merit even as psychological novelties.

Wow. Totally terrific, thoughtful post by jpatt.

I hereby request his absolution for spelling Ouija "Quija".

To achieve atonement, I promise to fast for three days, drink a bottle of boiling hot beer, and beat myself with a rat whisk.

Ey ! that's overdrinking.
One bottle is equivalent of 2 dozens beer.
Not to mention adding smoke ash on it.

I vote for the string theory ...B






http://www.sciencewatch.com/july-aug2001/s...g2001_page3.htm

I don't think I would sneak behind my parent's back. Although I did state that I would have done. If I made my own, would it work the same as a ouija 'board'?
I don't think I'd use one on my own because the comfort of others would help. If I used it on my own, I would probably sh** myself hehe. Ghosts and spirit's don't really scare me as such. This is the way I see spirits as.....

We are all, ''in the physical form'', a suitcase. We have our exterior which is our skin, and our physical side but once we die, we leave the suitcase behind and become a spirit. It's hard t explain really. Does anyone agree with me or do you have different views?

I like that view just fine myself ...
but when you play with a Quija board, just like at an airport(al), you have to be careful that a bad guy doesn't try to steal your suitcase....B






halfhandshuffle:THE WHO "QUADROPHENIA THE REAL ME"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUfD9190Aco

One has to be careful, SilverSoul. Today most people make a hard separation between what is physical and what is spiritual. They think of the human body as sort of a crude pile of animated meat that the soul rides around in for a while, and then the soul leaves the physical behind -- the idea is that there is a very discrete separation between the physical and spiritual.

When you get down to it, the physical body is made up of molecules, which are made up of atoms, which are made up of subatomic particles, and those subatomic particles continue to "reduce" down to the point where they are not really physical "objects" at all -- but pure energy -- "acting" as physical matter.

So the phyical body is like a certain "phase" of reality, but still very much a construction that, at it's foundation, is "energy acting as matter."

Where is the soul in that mixture? Does their need to be a concept of a soul as separate from the physical if the physical is basically energy, too? What happenes after the physical body dies and the energy that was once acting as that physical body no longer acts that way?

But that last question is a loaded question because it presumes that time and space act in a certain way -- what if time does not actually flow forward like a river, and leave the past behind, but is rather part of the larger permanent structure of the entire universe, or all reality?

It could be said that the physical body -- once coming into existence, will never actually die -- but rather, remain in time -- somewhere -- in the Universe. All time could be simulataneous. It's not so much that the physical body begins and ends at certain points in time -- but rather, exists eternally as part of a greater Implicate Order that is a deeper dimension of reality that we are not yet used to recognizing.

I see that it is going to take me a long time to live down this "Quija" thing.

I think I'll try turn a negative into a positive. I think I will apply for a patent on the word "Quija." Then I will create a new kind of Quija Board -- and I'll call it "Quija -- The Quantum Powered Board! It's just like an Ouija Board -- only Qauntum Powered!"

Anyone who wants to invest now, can start sending me cash.

...thanks alot!.....B










halfhandshuffle:Peter Schilling - Major Tom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1Hs2AQwDgA

Have your patent lawyers do a thorough patent search before applying for a patent on Quija Board.

http://mrhaunted.com/pages/substories/burning%20candle.htm

There's an old joke "Why did God create time?"
Answer: "So everything wouldn't happen at once."

It sounds as though everything actually COULD BE happening at once...

I should say, when I said "crude pile of animated meat" I wasn't thinking of you, Barek. I was thinking of my old girlfriend, Edna Lou Fishbacker.

why are all mediums so twisted? ....don't ever change ....B








halfhandshuffle:Dead Can Dance - Rakim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do5vj3D-OD4...ted&search=

Do you take Visa or Mastercard?

When I attempt a ouija board, i'll come on the internet in the chat room so i'm not alone lol.

I'd also like to ask about mediums. Can you learn to be one or do you have to be born with it (in order to be one I mean). Just that a mate of mine, he's the same age as me (20) and he's a medium but he says I cannot learn to be one. He says I have to be born with the gift (if it is a gift, I don't know).

I am highly psychic and a medium, and mine started at the mere age of 5. I do believe we all have a 6th sense, but as far as being a medium, talking to the dead, hearing from them, relaying messages, its a gift we are born with. One cannot "learn" to talk to something they cant see or hear. That is my opinion..JN

OOOOOOHH be careful! ...DE-NIAL ain't no river in Egypt cuz .....B







halfhandshuffle:Blues Traveler - But Anyway
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDqPi5kaZQE