in my personal experience, it's all BS. i have been there, totally desperate, BEGGING for salvation, and IT NEVER COMES. ask all you want, but for me, it never comes. it's all bs. BUT, being a learning, young soul, i am allowed to change my outlook. who knows, maybe jesus was waiting for something a little more dramatic to happen to me before i can 'be saved' LoL sorry if i seem like a wise-guy! just my opinion, and im NOT saying that those who do get truly saved then lead perfectly happy healthy lives are making it all up either.

Pumpkin Muffin, your long post made a whole lot of sense. Thanks for posting!

How do you know that salvation hasnt come apon your request?

Or maybe someone just moves the doodad when your in a group just to trip you out.... I did this when my friends tried a ouija board out, let them believe for like a month that it was spirits etc. it was hilarious.

The demonic possession case that inspired The Exorcist began with a Quija Board.

Why do I feel spooked when I experiment with my Ouija? I always had wondered about this then after every time that I dabble with the Board for awhile. I always feel disappointed because nothing happens. I hate it at when some of my friends would freak out or saying the board/planchette is moving. I have seen it too many times that they move it. I had went to Wal-mart last evening knowing that they have Ouija boards. I lied to this gothic employee saying that there wasn’t a planchetta in the box when I had bought the game. He happily had given me one from one of the other Ouija games. I probably got the poor guy in trouble later. But it’s fixed…I think.
The reason that I feel spooked maybe bec that I know it’s a doorway for all Entities. I just want to actual see and feel that it really works for “me“. I have played with other people and some do feel “something”, but I never do. Perhaps, I am 2 sceptical?
Last night, I was home alone. All of my 3 kids had went to their Memeres n Peperes*(grandparents). Lynn was working late. I picked up my Ouija board which was leaning on my pc, and placed it on the kitchen table beside me. I positioned the new planchetta and it seemed to work fine on the surface. A few minutes of unwinding my emotions and clearing my head. I had asked a quick question on when my Aunt died(she died recently). Nothing happens at all in the while that I was moving the planchetta, however I was beginning feel nervousness and spooked. Then, I see something move in the corner of my eye to the right of me coming toward me(always toward me) and it gave me shivers on my neck. I ignored it n thinking that I always see things in the corner of my eye when I think of Ghosts and Paranormal. So, nothing happens, and I placed the board back where it was by the pc and gone to bed. Before I went to sleep, I was seeing indescribable creatures when I had my eyes closed. They would just appear or make known, and I have to open my eyes to get rid of the vision(s) or the picture. I don’t see monsters all the time. I do see people’s faces and I always wouldn’t know on who they are. When I do see a pretty face or something nice-I would try to focus on it as long as I can, but they fade away. No control. There is a brief good explanation thread on it, anyway…
Here is another same pic of my Ouija..piece of wood, at when it was broken or no planchetta…poor thing is beaten.
Asking that there is a God is silly…



*spelling, I cant spell French , tc

Good, thoughtful post by "Muffin", and a nice personal experience post just above, by Primordial. It's good to see that thoughtful discussion isn't just a passing fad on the subject, like it seems to be for a lot of other subjects.


I won an eBay auction for a "Psychic Circle: Magical Message Board" (for $8.00 and free shipping) and got it in the mail last week. It sure is a cheery looking fella, and I like the round/circle theme, and even the indicator is round. For some pics and a more detailed description, you can click on my signature link below. For anyone interested in using a talking board (the generic term for Ouija Board clones), consider finding a Psychic Circle, Angel Board or other more upbeat, positive and more colorful board.



My problem is that there just isn't anybody around that wants to use a talking board, or the people that would, I wouldn't want them to use it, mostly due to their personalities, which are easily anxious or extremists and such. And I can't use it by myself - I could barely get it to work with one other person most times. Ah well, them's the breaks I guess.


I think the reason people always get spooked and see and hear things when using a board is the reputation of Ouija Boards - they were originally marketed as psychic novelty toys and had no connotation or connection with spirits or dead people - but Fuld remarketed the boards to take advantage of the interest in seances, mysticism and 1848's catapulting of the Spiritualism religion into mainstream, popular, public visibility, based on the young Fox sisters' knockings, rappings and poppings.


With the religion of Spiritualism and it's belief in spirit communication, any unusual game, novelty or experience soon became tainted and misrepresented as being affiliated with spirits of some sort, and the Ouija Board was one of the first, and obviously very easy victim. As Spiritualism blossomed an early conceptualization of the nature, attitudes and intents of spirits, the imagination-gripping "evil spirit" and "demon" ideas became phenomenally popular and more and more common in the average person's experience when using some form of "mediumistic device" - this debasement and gross exaggeration of a simple toy continues to this day, stronger than ever. With over 150 years of undeserved and fraudulent grim connotations, talking boards' reputation precede them by miles, their very mention calling up negative reactions, fear and righteous religious fervor, perpetuating the ominous "aura" surrounding these purely mundane novelties.


Essentially, people with mood, emotional or mental disorders or issues, a lot of stress, of a young age, of a naive or gullible, fantasy-prone or excitable/hysterical nature or those that are preoccupied, passionately, with their religion, tend to have negative experiences with talking boards - friends and family that are exposed to these types of influences and ideas are also likely to "inherit" a negative view of boards, usually without having any solid personal reason, other than basing their beliefs on someone else's convictions, often without considering the validity of that person's judgment on the subject. Media and the internet have also aided in this negative reinforcement, due to the age-old adage that most news stories still rely on: bad news is GOOD NEWS, as far as public interest - the story about the dog rescuing the kitten is not NEARLY as popular or interesting as the story about the dog that died in a house fire while chasing the kitten through the house.


But if anyone takes the time to actually research the subject, you'll find from the very first talking board patent (for a "Psychograph") in London in 1854, to Kennard's (later Fuld's) Ouija, it should be noted that they began, were marketed as, and never claimed to be anything other than a novelty parlor game - Kennard owned a novelty and game business, and created the Ouija, likely "borrowing" the earlier Psychograph idea.


PS to anyone guilty of this transgression: The word is *OUIJA*, O-U-I-J-A, "O" as in OBLIVIOUS. There is no "Q" anywhere! It is just a made-up nonsense word (contrary to some sites and people who don't do fact checking, and credit the word as being Egyptian - it is not) but still, it is a proper noun, a name, and only 5 letters, so there's no excuse. Think of it as a "YES-YES" board (as some people claim is it's origin - it isn't), made up of the French "Oui" (pronounced wee) and German "Ja" (pronounced like the first two letter of the word "just").


Official William Fuld Website Fascinating, in-depth Ouija history, Fuld biography, pictures; for example, this debate-ending revelation, directly from the site:



So, rather than the "ideomotor effect" being a relatively recent concept used to explain board results in a non-paranormal way, the boards were, at their birth, specifically and knowingly COUNTING on this as an absolute necessity for the board to work at all!


Further Reading:

Paranormality - Ouija Lengthy article (not my site)

Ouija - Wikipedia Entry

Ouija Boards Are Evil Well at least he's passionate about it

good question, but if i was saved, then wouldnt my life have gotten any better? even just a little? cuz it's still hell as far as i can tell. my only peace is knowing i have a chice to come back or not, and im not going to. i'd rather become a spirit guide or something LoL lord knows ive been thru enough crap to be a great guide maybe things will get better as i age. HOPEFULLY! im just a tad pessimistic because the past 5 years have been crap and i dont see it getting any better anytime soon. on the other hand though, i would say i have matured faster than i would have otherwise, and i am stronger emotionally for it, so maybe in some way i was saved.... my sanity IS still intact...... and i dont fear nor hate god, so..... u tell me....
i think im just going to see how far i can get on my own this time without asking for help. if he thinks i need help, it will be given = )


edited for spelling....i said 'like' when i meant 'life'

hey no problem! just trying to fit all the pieces together! = ) i wish i had the link to that brainwave article i was reading last week, it would really help! if i come across it anytime soon i will DEFINATELY post a link to it! = )

Is that based on fact or a fairy tale?
Come on, these boards don't hurt anyone unless you have an overactive imagination or something coming.

Pumpkin Muffin said:

i have read a lot about paranormal stuff, psychic stuff, and also ways that science discredits it all. however.... i think jpatt is right TO A CERTAIN DEGREE when he says that board experiences can be manifestations of our subconscious, and i will tell you why. i dont believe it's our SUB conscious, but rather our SUPERsubconscious, for lack of a better word. we have our awake consciousness(thats 1) our subconsciousness which does the dreaming(thats 2), and then we have the supersubconscious (3!) which i personally believe is our essence/soul AND shared energy/universal information pool (i hope this is making sense!). we already know that when we are dreaming, there is a point in time when we are in deep sleep, but not dreaming, and we are using the theta ( i believe, correct me if im wrong) brain waves, and THOSE are the brainwaves that science cant really explain. i guess i would call those waves the supersubconscious. now, IF this is all so, then what jpatt is saying tends to make sense, because we all have the ability to use those waves, and i must point out that those waves spike drastically in prayer and meditation. so MAYBE theta waves ARE the universal mind, and when using the board, you are tapping into that, and your brain helps you spell out the words that are coming to you. you dont have to be asleep to access theta waves..... it has been proven that deep inner reflection can get the motor running, so it only makes more sense that that is what is happening sometimes with the board. that in NO WAY implies that you are NOT indeed talking to spirits, because in my opinion, heaven/other side occupants MUST be in the universal circuit. where else can they be? so the supersub contacts a spirit, and your mind gets impressed (not as is 'cool man!") with the answer, then your brain makes the impulses to spell out the answers for you. i hope that made sense.

PM, do you feel the same way about spirit guides? have you ever heard from your s.g.(s)?

no, not yet = ( only because every time i try to meditate, i end up falling asleep. im resorting to other methods now. i have a sensitive friend who wants to try the board sometime soon she said, so that could be fun! you know what i was thinking last night? there is a neckband that supposedly can talk for peeople who cant talk (LoL) and it is supposed to be programmed by the brain waves of the individual wearing it. it can tell the difference between thought waves and speech waves. so i was thinking... i wonder if somehow you could program it verbally record meditation experiences, or dream experiences...... even further, what if someone let a spirit onto their body and it spoke thru the band??! ha ha i was reminded of the dream narattor from tommyknockers.... ever read that? well anyway, that's what i fell asleep to last night.... = ) actually, there was more. i am RIGHT NOW getting into flipping houses, and i was thinking about getting some buildings in bangor (i live in maine), hopefully near stephen king, so i could hopefully meet him and once i get rich we could work on the 'dream machine' together. LoL it was pretty entertaining, and if i would have actually dreamed about that, i would have loved it. but alas, i dont remmeber my dream!

oh yeah, the first question.... yes, i do. the difference being the way you utilize the 'impression'. with a ouija board, your impulses translate the impressions for you in word form. in lucid dreams (which i believe to be the theta waves needed), and meditation, you can see, hear, feel, and remember, so no translation is needed. it's not as simple as im explaining it but i hope you get it = ) if not, let me know and i will try again!

(edited to add last paragraph)

I have had telepathy with one person 3 times, and heard from spirit guides on many occasions, and it is difficult to discern where I end and they begin Oh... also once I heard from my higher self.

ask it yourself with this online version .......... its answers are just as reliable
http://www.newagestore.com/oracle/ouija/Ouija.asp

why doesn't anyone video tape their session!!

I have had many offers to have my sessions video taped, including a TV crew, but this is something I have always refused.

If anyone else wants to video tape their sessions, that's their decision. But for me -- this is a serious "no no".

Ah yes, I seem to remember I promised to share my experience.

Don't expect much, it's a fairly non-spooky story and up to this day I'm not sure whether I believe it or not. Nor am I a very good storyteller so sorry in advance.

I believe it was 1997-98, I'm not sure but I know I was still in Secondary School(High School?), I was a happy teenage girl and so was my sister. We had a lot of fun during our days of hanging around together because unlike some siblings, our relations were actually wonderful and still are though we live separately for years now. At some point, we discovered the board and like any teen, we wanted to try it out. At the time, we thought it was nonsense anyway but we decided to give it a shot and be serious about it.

We got a board by making it according to our mother's instructions who had been quite a medium in her days with some of her messages coming true lateron in life. It was a beautiful board, too, we were fairly proud of it. Our own house wouldn't do, mom said, it was too new. But thankfully we have an extra building on the property we call the Hunter's Lodge because there used to be hunters coming there and mostly get drunk and shoot ducks in the morning, and that house is over a 100 years old so it was bound to have some sort of aura. We all felt it anyway, still do. The Hunter's Lodge is somewhat a scary place, cold and dark.

Anyway! The sessions begun in a dark evening of January on the years I mentioned. We had a lot of snow, that much I remember, and the Lodge was even colder than usual even after we'd lit up the fireplace and kept going for a while. We didn't get contact, the pointer was still under our hands and we thought - well, it was fun, sadly we're not sensitive enough or there is no ghosts. Finally, after 10 minutes of waiting in silence and darkness with the candlelight only lighting the already spooky room, I got sick of it and said:"If there is anyone out here, let yourself be known now or you'll never get your chance because we are leaving." You can imagine our startlement when the pointer started moving immidiately and I can assure you it wasn't neither of us moving it. There was the usual "Greetings" and off we went.

It turned out the old Hunter's Lodge had a what we call a House Spirit/Ghost called Eva. She was a nice and peaceful and patient spirit, answering to all of these silly questions we had and wandering aimlessly around the board when she didn't want to reply or thought our question was trivial.

At some point, she said: 20th of May. Ooookay. Our dad's birthday is on that date, we didn't really think much on it until the pointer revealed a rather odd sentence: Jaanika's(my sister's name) appendix bursts on 20th of May. Mind, it was January at the time. Although my sister was confused and somewhat freaked out, I was relieved because Eva told me my appendix is fine and will go with me to my grave. Eventually we stopped, said our goodbyes, blew off the candles and left the Hunter's Lodge to the main building, our house.

Months passed, we rarely discussed it, more as a passing jest but I could see it bothered my sister. Of course, her appendix was fine as well. Until on 20th of May she was taken to the hospidal where she was operated on a last moment and her appendix removed. She'd felt the pain all through the day but was too scared to say anything because of the 'prophecy' we had received from our friendly neighbourhood spirit.

As I mentioned already, I have no idea what did this. But the undeniable and freaky fact is that 5 months before it happened, a board told us this would happen and it did, exactly that date and exactly that problem. Believe it or not!

Hence I follow this topic with some interest.

Ise

I agree with with JN. Find another way to amuse yourself-you'll be sorry that you ever messed with this board. You think negative energies or demons are going to tell you there is a God..lol

Hey seriously... put a quija board in a fire and watch it burn. I remember this when i lived in Washington state like 13 years ago. My mother and my sister (to include myself) All heard what sounded like a groaning from a man...then shortly after it stopped it switched to a woman screaming. The sounds were faint but still easy to hear. I've come to many logical explanations througout the years that i pretty much don't beleive it was the real deal. Could've been the ink, or maybe the plastic from the game piece....but try it anyways for the hell of curiosity.

Hey seriously... put a quija board in a fire and watch it burn. I remember this when i lived in Washington state like 13 years ago. My mother and my sister (to include myself) All heard what sounded like a groaning from a man...then shortly after it stopped it switched to a woman screaming. The sounds were faint but still easy to hear. I've come to many logical explanations througout the years that i pretty much don't beleive it was the real deal. Could've been the ink, or maybe the plastic from the game piece....but try it anyways for the hell of curiosity.

NEVER burn a Quija board ever..One must renounce it, close it and discard it properly. That is the rule of thumb, and these things have no concept of time,and things can happen years down the line. Be careful what you burn my friend..JN

I burned 13 of them on Friday the 13th at 3:33am and I live a perfect everyday normal life.

Except you have over 2600 posts on a paranormal forum. =)

But seriously, this burning topic comes up so often there should be a sticky on it. I'm definitely going to do an article about it on my site, but I did find quite a few interesting links googling: burn and ouija and then also "why shouldn't I burn a ouija board" - sometimes the simplest things are best eh? I would be interested to find out where this "don't burn" policy came from and why it has a "Ring" detail to it (those who hear it scream die within 36 hours).

I got a "Psychic Circle" a week ago but still don't have anybody willing to use it, or I am not comfortable with the volunteers that DO want to. Small towns suck in that way.

Funny!

You know, there's something about:

I burned 13 Ouija board on Fri. 13 at 3:33

and

"I have normal life"

Which don't seem to go together very well.

Hey, Iron Ghost

Did you begin writing that book on how to use an OuiJa Board, if so, I have info on how to make your own, according to my research it's better to make your own board, this way you are reassured spiritual safety simply because it's your own energies going into the board, you can also decorate it with protection runes, or symbols and the material you make it out of is picked according to your own perference.


Hey, Jpatt

Thanks for the website, I'll be sure to check it out.

Hey Electra:

Yes, I have made my own Ouija board -- in fact as far as I know, I have the only "magnetic" Ouija board on the planet, and if I was smart or ambitious, I would apply for a patent, but I have not done so (probably because I am neither smart nor ambitious.)

If you go read my column concerning my contact with the Helix Master, I describe my magnetic board -- this is a board which I constructed from melted bismuth. I used bismuth because it is a substance known to be diamagnetic - that is, it always opposes the force of a magnet. I then glued magnets on the feet of the planchette -- the result is an Ouija board with a "floating planchette." It doesn't really float -- but it is slightly repelled from the board, reducing friction to a very tiny degree, making the planchette slide around with effortless ease -- it's like a car with smooth power steering.

Also, on all my boards, I general add a number of my own words and symbols -- I also add an "!" for example.

Some of the words I add are the names of four colors which do not appear in our normal world. I first learned of these colors while traveling in the lucid dreaming world. They are:

Thul
Sporgan
Mooltana
Gratwin

As you know, in our normal world we see the colors of the rainbow -- ROY G. BIV (Red, orange, yellow ...).

But when I am in the dream world, I also see Thul, Sporgan, Mooltana and Gratwin. These are totally novel colors -- that is, they are not combination of normal colors, such as mixing blue and yellow to get --whatever. I can only see the colors when I am dreaming.

Interesting, these new colors also have greater "dimension" or "quality" to them that normal colors don't have. For example, these colors can appear to either "come forward" or "go away" while you are looking at them. So not only are the Thul, Sporgan, Mooltana and Gratin, but also "Thul-Go," "Sporgan-Go," etc. -- and "Thul-forward," "gratwin-forward", ect.

So when you combine the four novel colors with their come or go counterparts -- you really get a total of 12 new colors.

Anyway -- I very often meet strange beings and entities in the dream state -- and then it is always fun to go back when I am away to see if I can talk to those same entities with the Ouija board. Many Ouija board entities will also refer to "otherwordly colors" such as the 12 I mention above -- so it's handy to have them on the board.

Actually, in my next column, I am going to write about a case where I met a very strange being while lucid dreaming -- the being is called "The Triad of the Nine" and I later contacted this being on the O. Board -- anyway, The Triad was wearing monk-like robes made of the color "Gratwin-Go"

So, anyway, watch for my next column, and I'll introduce everyone to the "Triad of the Nine of the Gratwin-Go Robes."

EDIT: Oops - I forgot to answer your other question -- yes, I have not only started the book, it is almost done -- Volumn 1, anyway. I will probably bring the Ouija material out in a Trilogy, or three volumes. I have millions of words to deal with.

OMG Iron Ghost, what do you mean your not smart or ambitious, what you have done is pure genius, please let me know when your books hit the shelf, I'll be sure to buy them. God you got me excited now:)......LOL I would love to talk to entities on the astro plan , but I'm unable to do so, it seems my telepathic link is not strong enough.

You are very kind .... but just ask my wife about how smart I am. You'd get another view.

Ahhh, Comeone Iron Ghost give yourself some credit, does it matter what others think? I think you are a genuis, and I'm very impressed with your post.

We all have our moments

What is it with the number 3, three is a scared number, not a death number... I guess you're right Cry, everyone has their moments....LOL

I guess that went over a few ppls heads....I guess WE DO have our moments ALL OF US lol

My moments happen at 7 in the morning, right before I have had a smoke and a coffee.....LOL

I was heavily into the mysteries of the Ouija board several years ago. My friend and I looked up every story and document that we could find on the internet, and had our own "sessions" if you can call them that. Nothing too interesting happened, but it was still fun. I always wondered how a piece of cardboard manufactured by Parker Bros. could ever contain such spiritual magic; making one by hand always seemed more accurate to me.

That's what I thought too when I had used a store bought one. If it's your own energy that makes the board work than boards should be made by your own hand, not by someone elses or a machine....

Waves to Iron Ghost-- ..One of these days can you please post a short session regarding MOMMY IN THE NOTHING CHAMBER? I miss your stories..

So, in the lucid dreaming world, they use the English alphabet do they ? And how did you know the names of these 'new' colours ?? Did you 'read' it somewhere or was it relayed to you by someone/thing, while dreaming ??

You know I gotta ask, right ??

Of course, why wouldn't "they" speak English in the lucid dream world? After all, it's my dream, the dream is basically my own virtual reality created by my own brain, right? Sometimes the creatures in my dream speak Polish, of course, because we spoke Polish in my home when I was a boy, so that makes sense.

However, sometimes I wonder if it's a dream, or something else, such as dimensional travel. (I have no firm opinions, even after 30 years of lucid dreaming).

But, very often -- and anyone else here who is an experienced lucid dream traveler (Oneironaut) -- can back me up on this -- one very often will hear words that don't seem to be english, but maybe some kind of bastardization of English, such as the word "Thul" for a particular color.

I remember the first time I encountered the color thul. I was dreaming I was walking in a strange garden and their was a magnificent tree that was growing an exotic melon kind of fruit -- but the weirdest thing is that the color of the melons did not look like any color I had ever seen before -- and further more -- this new color had the very exotic effect of seeming to move away from me, while at the same time, doing it's job of "coloring" the fruit, and staying on the fruit.

Often when I dream, I travel with a "dream companion" or assistant, which is my Energy Bar Tool -- this is something I learned from the people at the Monroe Institute -- you learn to "form" or materialize a bar of light with your mind -- this is your energy bar tool, which you can do a lot of things with -- but I was delighted to find that, after using the Energy Bar Tool for a long time, it began to develop a consciousness of it's own, and sort of "came alive" and started talking to me, and such -- I could ask it questions and it can answer.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I was dazzled by the melons growing in the tree, and I was stunned and mesmerized by the fact that they seemed to have a color that does not exist on earth naturally. So I asked my Energy Bar Tool:

"What color are those strange melons growing on that tree?"

And the Energy Bar answered: "That is the color Thul-Go. Not all Thul is Go, but what you see here is an example of Thul-go."

I said: "So if the color did not appear to move away from me, but just stayed put like normal colors, it would be just plane "thul" then?"

The Energy Bar Tool said: "Yes, there is Thul, Thul-Go, and Thul-Forward."

OMG Iron Ghost, this is amazing, I'm a lucid dreamer, but so are alot of writers. I'm still working on dream control, but it looks like you have already mastered it. You have tapped in and have created a well of inspiration, I find creative visualization techniques useful in exploring and creating many inner worlds, which is great for fantasy writing. Oh the wonderful things us writers can drag from our subconscious, bit and pieces of past memories, rich detailed settings, colors and images, even conversation and people.

Wow, cool! Dreamer -- writer -- sometimes, what's the diff, right?

But, yes, I have been very hard at lucid dreaming for about 30 years. I have experimented heavily with all kinds of stuff -- including the NovaDreamer, which you can buy from the Lucidity Institute.

If anyone here does not now what the NovaDreamer is -- it's a kind of dream mask that you wear at night when you sleep. It has motion sensors which can detected with you reach REM state -- and then you can set it to flash a light in your eyes, make clicking noises, etc., and that can serve as a cue for you to awaken within your dream.

I've had a lot of fun with the NovaDreamer over the years -- they make several other models as well, last I checked anyway. Anyone who is interested can do a search on Lucidity Institute and find out more. The LI was founded by famed dream researcher Stephen LeBerge of Stanford University.

But I have also experiemented with all kinds of other stuff, including years of intense study with mind tools from the Monroe Institute in Faber Virginia -- I have used their HemiSync stuff and other audio stuff to induce all kinds OBE and lucid dream events. I eventually developed my own methods -- and so on.

But you're right, Electra -- the dream state is a fantastic place for inspiration for writing, and to get you to "think outside the box" and multidimensionally.

Tell you what, Electra, let's agree to do lucnh on the surface of the moon some day -- we'll see if we can get there in the dream world.

Alright Iron Ghost it's a deal. We'll have lunch on the moon, and if all goes well I just might take you back to Venus where we can relax under a warm, tropical waterfall....

It's great to be back Iron Ghost, I truly missed these types of conversation with you, it's like a good dose of therapy....

Great therapy for sure -- and you don't have to pay some psychologist $90/hour!


Well -- it's time for sleepy bye-- I'm hoping for some a great trips into the "other worlds" tonight. I swear, sometimes I'm busier during sleep than during the day.

Sell ya'll later.

Peace and love to you E.R and to all my friends here.

'Night!

Have a great night Iron Ghost, and we'll have to set a time and date for our lunch on the moon. Feel free to PM anytime, I look forward to hearing from you...

Hhhhmmm...Interesting stuff.......In your experience what are the main differences between lucid dreaming and normal dreaming ?? Are you normally awake prior to a lucid dream and is it possible you're creating these images by having an amazing imagination ??

the difference between lucid and normal is that in a lucid dream, you realize that you are dreaming. In a normal dream, you don't question your reality. You just experience.

Let's say that you are walking on the surface of Mars. You start to think, "Hmmmm, is it really possible that I could be on Mars, and breathing without a spacesuit?" And then the answer to your extraordinary situation become obvious: "I must be dreaming!"

Once you have this realization, you become "awake" within the dream. In other words, you bring your waking state of mind into the dream world -- when you achieve this, you can then start taking more active control of your entire dream universe -- in this dream world, you are a god -- because it is your own mind that is generating everything in the dream. You are existing in a world of your own creation. That means when you meet another person in the lucid dream world -- that person is you. If you start talking to that person, you are having a conversation with yourself.

That's because your brain is generating both the "you" in the dream and the other person you are talking to.

Having said that -- I have long come to suspect that sometimes the people or being one meets in the lucid dream state may not be generated by your own brain -- but more on the later.

It's interesting to note that in our waking world, we are not in the habit of questioning our reality, just as we don't question our reality in a normal dream, no matter how strange it may be. To "come awake" within a dream is always an astounding experience. You realize that there is more to "you" than you realized.

In the same vain, this is the case with all of us in our waking world. We never question our reality, or stop to consider it could be a kind of false reality, much like a dream. But it is also possible to "come awake" in our normal world, and see our reality for what it really is. This is why in Zen this is called "awakening."

To "awaken" in the Zen sense is a similar feeling to when you achieve lucidity and come awake in a dream.

It's amazing that 99% of all people are walking around in their every day world, and they are all basically asleep in a way -- they have not awakened to their greater selves -- and they don't see the true nature of what reality is.

Right, now I understand it.....I must have confused the 'beings/spirits' that you encounter when using your ouija board (which I read in another thread) with the lucid dreaming imagery........Thanks for clearing that up for me...

After a lucid dream, do you feel 'drained' when you wake in the morning and are you aware of any physical side-effects ??

No, I would say that a lucid dream gives you the opposite feeling of being drained most of the time -- you feel very energized and excited, because it tends to be such a great experience.

There is a whole other can of worms to open up here, though -- after a long time of lucid dreaming, I began to meet very strange and exotic beings, and I began to suspect something else was going on -- it was almost as if these beings could not be my own dreaming mind generating these entities.

As I have said, on many occasions I have later contacted characters I met in dreams on the Ouija board, and they don't seem to be an aspect of "me."

Some would quickly conclude that the fact that I can talk to beings I dream about on the Ouija board is support of the idea that the entities speaking through the Ouija board are actualy aspects of my own subconscious mind -- but that's a very simplistic idea, and I don't think it can be supported in the long run.

For one thing, one has to consider the holonomic theory of brain function - -that is, that thoughts are not generated by the brain, but rather, the brain is acting like a "receiver" of information that is "out there" encoded in the universe.

I am beginning to think that when one lucid dreams, what is happening is that you are experiencing being a holographic projection within the matrix of the universal field of information, and you interact with other holographic projections not of your own making.

At other times,however, the characters I meet in my dreams are obviously aspects of my own personality being symbolized as another person or creature.

It's fun to ask people or creatures you meet in lucid dreams: "Who are you?" "Are you an apsect of my own mind, or something else?" You get very suprising answers. Some will admit to being "you" while others will deny it.

I have heard of this, and I also remember hearing a technique that is probably cheaper and easier (although maybe not as effective)

Simply put masking tape over your eyes before bed, and then, supposedly during REM sleep, you are aware your eyeballs are moving (due to the slight extra pressure on your eyelids) Thus you are aware you're dreaming etc.

i've not tried it, so I can't really say if it works or not, but it's just a tip.

If you look below my post you'll see the title of an article I constructed on creative dreaming and the website to read it on, so I'm already up to par on what you are saying, I also highly believe in telepathy, and have experimented with certain telepathic techniques, being already filmilar with my own higherself, shadow self and various other archtypes I harbour, I could tell the difference between communicating with myself and someone else, and it was surely someone else. Did you know that all writers bare the natural ability to telepathically communicate, therfore being able to pass along inspirational ideas. There is even a natural telepathic bond between family members and a strong one between a mother and her children that has been created since their birth. I believe it was spiritual psychologist Carl Jung who empashized that we are all connected, we share images within a unconscious collective - that being the subconscious, and writers tap into their subconscious and pull to the conscious rich detail imagery, people, conversations and settings. It's great to hear from you again Iron Ghost;)