But last week came an astonishing new twist to the Roswell mystery.

Lt. Walter Haut was the public-relations officer at the base in 1947 and was the man who issued the original and subsequent press releases after the crash on the orders of the base commander, Col. William Blanchard.

Haut died in December 2005, but left a sworn affidavit to be opened only after his death.

Last week, the text was released. It asserts that the weather-balloon claim was a cover story and that the real object had been recovered by the military and stored in a hangar.

He described seeing not just the craft, but alien bodies.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287643,00.html

this seems great to me ..... i hope we get more people coming forward soon because of it

as the article states, if he wanted fame seems he would have done this while alive

if this isnt true, what could be the motivation no that he is dead ?

Already have 2 threads on this.

Haut always seemed like a credible witness to me. The fact he gave instructions to wait until after his death to release the information makes him seem even more credible. After all he could have made alot of money by selling his story,but chose not to.

I agree with this, I mean the fact that he did wait untill his death to release this info seems like the very "real" thing to do... if that sounds correct...

The thing is that supposivly you have to sign yourself off to work at roswell... and also not be able to comunucate with anyone, anyone know if this is true? because if it is, this explains everything.

Yes indeed, the 47 year old weather balloon story was nothing more than a cover-up as told by Jesse Marcel and Thomas Dubose. And, to underline that point, here is a message that indicates where the suggestion came from, and Lt. Haut's affidavit is just the 'icing on the cake.' I never could understand how easy it was for the military to pull the wool over the eyes of the media.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WAR V WU A50 NL PD

KALAMAZOO MICH JUL 8

WAR DEPT

INTELLIGENCE DIV WASHDC

SUGGEST SAUCERS ARE RADAR TARGET FOR WEATHER OBSERVATION

PURPOSES CONTACT COL M DUFFY SPRING LAKE NEW JERSEY FOR

INFORMATION

TONY GASTON NEWS EDITOR WKZO

WKZO.

Handwritten notes:

CA from
ID (Col Boyd) to AAF (Maj Mikly)
7-9-47
Celr
RLT

C/A received
from ACB and sent to Suin
Jif (?) 7/10/47

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

very nice, interesting story, i guess skeptics can cross out the "he's just trying to take your money" excuse, lol.

I highly recommend you read the recently published book on Roswell by Carey and Schmitt: "Witness to Roswell". I believe Haut's affidavit was first published in Witness to Roswell that came out last month (a few weeks ahead of schedule, I believe). It is an invaluable source of evidence for the Roswell investigator.

Nearly all the main contributors to the Roswell recovery, analysis and cover-up are analyzed to reveal a striking similarity: nearly all the "big names" attributed to Roswell at one time or another acknowledged that the Roswell object was not of this Earth, either by confiding in family members, close friends, or more commonly, first hand.

In similar fashion, Carey and Schmitt briefly provide reasonable objections to some of the more famous (or infamous) Roswell whistle blowers whose testimony contradicted that of the majority and thus were effectively ruled out of the Roswell equation. Of course, not all of the witness sightings of unusual events during the Roswell conspiracy are provided in the book. After all, as Carey and Schmitt noted, the Roswell witness total is now over 600! Most interesting of all is the fact that not one single witness yet interviewed has recalled seeing anything even remotely resembling a weather balloon or project mogul that fateful day, not one! This of course excludes CIC Captain Sheridan Cavitt, whose testimony was reviewed at length several times and rightfully excluded from the realm of the credible for obvious reasons (contradictions and denial). Something clearly troubled him up until his death. His son often tried to get him to do the same as Haut eventually did, to write an affidavit not to be released until the time of his death. Time and again he responded: "I'm not ready."

Carey and Schmitt turn the tables on the government in a most essential way. The government exercised a long list of civil rights violations that day and ever after in attempt to keep a lid on the most important story of the millennium! Most likely nothing will come of it, however, if more people were to take notice of this monumental abuse of authority, a prosecution and eminent disclosure could be a potential reality (however unlikely due to public ignorance). Carey and Schmitt rightfully dubbed the Roswell event "The Ultimate Cold Case File" as they presented their hypothetical civil case against the U.S. government for its seemingly unjustifiable acts of cruelty and intimidation.

To any veteran of the UFO field, unless you have intensely investigated the Roswell incident first hand, you will find this well researched and well presented book to be of invaluable importance. Witness to Roswell does present some little known facts and accounts as well as some, to the best of my knowledge, never before published. Witness to Roswell chronicles one of the most important events in human history: The crash and retrieval of an extraterrestrial spacecraft and bodies near Roswell in 1947.

There is one chapter in particular devoted to death bed confessions.

Hrrmzz....that's quite a head count. Do you have any further statistics on this, it seems......not real. We know that 600 people did not witness the crash, heck Brazel didn't even investigate his "saucer" for a couple days. 600 people did not view the wreckage. It would be a pretty dismal military cover-up if 600 people got into the loop.

That part in particular is a bit hard for me to fathom.

The Aliens did not exist until 1978, Santilli and Shoefield moved from genuine film to recreation meh, surely nobody gives them any creedence. It's all adding up to a big urban legend.

No. He could be making money for his family. Good oppurtunity for his kids to do a book.

I highly doubt that. I can't see why he would be bluffing on his death bed.

One never knows the mind of a dying man.

Personally, I don't think he was bluffing. Especially since he waited until he was on his death bed to confess.

Mac Brazel mentioned aliens to Frank Joyce back in 1947.

I set a lot of store in Death Bed confessions.....Whether believers or not, people dont like to take the chance when the big moment comes. In this particular case why would he deny deny deny all down the years and then say at the very end......"it's true" .....Unless he wanted to clear his conscience and go on his last journey as honestly as he could.
What's to be gained for him or his family by saying this ?

I don’t think its a case of gaining something or not but a case of self preservation while alive.
I believe he did not tell the truth until the very end for “fear” of that something could happen to his family for example. Maybe you’re right too, perhaps he wanted to pass with out lies in his soul and told the truth…

A book on what? These men don't talk. Period. If Haut was anything like my grandfather, there would be nothing to write about other than maybe what it's like to have a close family member be unable to talk about something. It's not pleasant for the families or the men who were stationed there to have something so controversial and public between them. My grandfather believed in blunt honesty, yet either a. refused to talk about Roswell or b. denied (aka lied) being stationed in Roswell though my grandmother didn't. He died this last February and all we have are files upon files to sort through eventually(yes, some from Roswell). Not to write a book...just to try to understand what happened to the man that we all loved dearly.

I'm so very happy for the Haut family that they have some resolution in this matter.

^ agreed. i dont see a good point in waiting untill your death bed to say something. he gets nothing.
id guess he was afraid of dying early if he mentioned anything about it, and told the world.

Or it could have been a simple matter of money but not like Eric thinks. My grandpa hid copies of a classified magazine that he was given during WWII and supposed to have destroyed. He hung onto them for 63 years until deciding just a few months before his death, that he wanted to release them to the public. However, he was deeply concerned that he would lose his vet benefits and soc. sec income if he did. He asked us to wait until after his death to do anything with them--despite assurances that the magazine had already been re-released and published. To put it in perspective, my grandfather was a full bird colonel, one of the first officers in the USAF, a 3 time legion of merit recipient, an atomic veteran and a veteran of three wars. His income, even at death, was nothing to sneeze at. I recall him saying that his annual income from the government was close to $200k per annum, which he saved for his descendents over the years. If he felt that there was a risk of losing that income (and therefore, depleting his descendents' inheritance) at releasing his copies of Impact, imagine how he would've viewed releasing any information about Roswell for a moment. Eric suggested that these men do this to provide income for their families. On the contrary, they probably kept quiet to provide income for themselves and their families...

Your opinion. This could make a nice profitable book for his kids and grandkids. Not saying that is it for sure, but it is possible.

You are, of course, aware that most books don't even a. get published and b. most authors do not make much from the proceeds. Roswell books are a dime a dozen, all seeming to claim that they have the inside information on Roswell. I sincerely doubt that it would make millionaires out of them whereas my grandpa keeping his mouth shut certainly did that for our family. (Do the math--$200k a year x 40 years...that's 8 million right there...and about what he left us) Now sure, not all of these men were bird colonels so let's look at the common factor that my grandfather would have with any of these men that he served with in the 509th. They were all atomic veterans--my grandfather's disability pay, as an atomic veteran, was around $80k per annum. Over 40 years, that's $3.2 million right there. Find one single Roswell author that has made that much money, LOL.

It seems you want to believe and not except any other explantion. I see multiple possiblities and you see just one.

The evidence is stacking up against the case, from what I see, the entire town treats the whole affair as a big town festival, very tongue in cheek, the evidence was released and was just bits of a weather balloon, the military has very sound explainations with Project Mogul and Operation Highdrop, perhaps he was desperate to hold onto some repect? Not hard to believe for a military man who would a very proud person.
Perhaps he simply wanted to make sure he was not remembered as a liar, or confused person? Maybe he wanted the world to feel he was no military pushover, who knows how the case affected his psyche over his life. Maybe he just wanted to be remembered. It certainly will put him in the history books again.

One thing is or sure, it brings us no closer to a solution, it has simply revived speculation.

Did that information become available before 1978? Or is there written record of that date confirming this conversation?
It is just that the reputation of Frank Joyce is in question after the sensationalist claim that the military swept through every media outlet in town to recover every scrap of paper connected to the incident, yet KSWS station manager George Walsh who broke the story cannot recall such a sweep. No other media source backs this claim. He is known to sensationalise the event.

From a pro site



This is what I read everywhere. There is no mention of Alien bodies and the source is questionable. I would need to see some convining evidence to consider this claim.

In case you weren't fully paying attention, my grandfather was at Roswell as an officer of the 509th....I do know what my grandfather said the ONE time that he decided to talk about it and what little he did say ONE TIME about the incident was highly intriguing. He said that: 1. a lot of peculiar things were going on at Roswell at that time, 2. people were seeing strange things and were upset, and 3. that he took one of his friends to get a beer one evening because this person was extremely upset about something going on at the base. He never said what people said that they saw or why it was so strange and peculiar and he certainly didn't say that it was a weather balloon. I grew up with a lot of 509th stories being told to me by my grandfather. He had no qualms about telling me how heavy the bombs were, planes that crashed, how the atomic bombs worked, and other things that he said were classified information. A downed weather balloon, he would've talked about...

You couldn't find a single Roswell book author that has made millions yet, have you? Didn't think you would.

How cool, so your Grandfather was involved with the Superfortress program!! Must be nice to have someone with such knowledge around. The 509th is one of the most famous wings in the Air Force

I am sure many writers have made a living out of the legend though Maybe not million, but avoided a real job just the same.

Walker Air Force Base was also a POW camp. Distress may be caused by treatment of post war prisoners. Post war POW's is far more likely than alien beings.
In May 1946, the Army Air Forces gave the newly-formed Strategic Air Command the responsibility of delivering the atomic bomb. Just being involved in a mission would have anyone on edge, especially considering the genocide delivered by it's predecessors. Having something on base that killed over 200,000 people in a single day would be unerving to say the least. At that time, effectiveness of the weapon would be discussed heavily too. Being in charge of such a thing would rattle any normal human being. The death of all those people would sure have me distressed if I was in any way involved. After all, it was only a year earlier.

Perhaps like the rest of the military, he saw a downed weather ballon as not information a young person might find interesting. If it was an Alien craft, I am sure, going by your description of the man, would hae mentioned it. We boys (Your profile lists no gender, I assume you are female by your avatar and nick) don't get scared at this stuff, it gets the adreniline pumping. We would look Yes we would !


I feel it is all the 3rd and 4th hand "bits" of information that is feeding and sustaining this legend. Noting substantial has arisien in 60 eyears. I doubt the case wil be proven now.

But, the Air Force has already admitted back in 1994, that no weather balloon was involved in the Roswell incident!!!



Now, that's a bit off-base considering that there are no flight records for Project Mogul balloon #4. In fact, Mogul balloon records show that no such balloon flight ever took place, which simply means that the Air Force covered up the weather balloon story with another balloon cover-up. Not only that, a recently televised experiment has already proven beyond any doubt that no Mogul balloon train was responsible for the Roswell incident, and by that very fact, it's case-closed on Project Mogul balloon train #4.



Not even in the same ballpark as the Roswell incident. High-altitude operations didn't begin until the 1950s and the Roswell incident happened in 1947.

If he saw a weather balloon, it was not responsible for the Roswell incident, and once again, we can rely on the admission of the Air Force, that no weather balloon was responsible for the Roswell incident.

Actually, that date has nothing to do with it.



Actually, Mac Brazel changed his story when he was released by the military, which is extraordinary by its own account and clearly suggest that Mac Brazel came into contact with something extraordinary, which simply means that what he came in contact with, had nothing to do with a weather balloon.

I dunno, I reckon the date has a great deal to do with it. If the Aliens did not exist in any story untill it was dredged up..........that indicates a fib published merely for sensationalism. If it was always part of the story, harder to dispute but adding to it 30 years later is reason to cast doubt on it's authenticity.

Brazel certainly did change his story, but once again, it has been confirmed that it never was a Weather balloon. It is claimed that the weather balloon story was used to cover up Mogul, which was top secret, so Mac would have been tried for treason if he spilled the beans.

Once again. You seem blinded by belief. I did not say something extrodinary didn't happened. I said I see multiple scenarios. None stands out more than the other.

Mogul balloon trains were not classified and the Air Force never told anyone in its 1994 Roswell report that Mogul balloon trains were not classified. In fact, Mogul balloon trains were occasionally recovered by civilians for rewards. Mogul balloons carried these items:

* Reward Tags

* Questionaires for those who recovered Mogul balloon trains (for anyone to add their imput as to the time, location and rate-of-decent of the balloons).

* Warning Labels (hazardous materials)

* ID Tags (As to the owners)

* Serial Numbers

Rancher Sid West, recovered a donwed Mogul balloon train and nothing happened to him. A policeman in Flat Bush, New Jersey, recovered a Mogul balloon that snagged itself on the roof of a tavern and nothing happened to him. A Mogul balloon was left lying next to a roadway and eventually, it was vandalized because it was just left out in the open and an oil crew was about to recover another Mogul balloon east of Roswell. If you think those balloon experiments were secret, check these out. How in the world, or out of it, did the Air Force think that anyone could confused a downed balloon train as a flying saucer? Do you really think that such a contraption could be left lying around for a month and not be noticed by others?



Stratosphere Atom Explosions Probed

PRINCETON, N.J., July 12. (AP) A group of Princeton University scientists sent into the stratosphere today a flight of instrument-bearing balloons to measure atomic explosions induced by cosmic rays.

Dr. Henry De Wolf Smyth, director of the Naval Research program sponsoring the flight, said the cosmic explosions were similar to those which produced the atomic bomb, but were single explosions and not a chain reaction as in the bomb.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<^>

This is what a downed Mogul balloon train looks like. You will note that two ordinary civilians recovered this object but they were not taken into custody unlike Mac Brazel, who was in military custody for a week!! The fact that these balloons do not resemble a flying saucer underlines how easy the government was able to dupe the media and the public.



PRINCETON --- The equipment attached to a chain of 28 balloons set aloft here by the Naval Ordnance Laboratory on the Princeton University campus was recovered yesterday in Essex County and returned to the university for further study of the results of the experiment...The equipment, which, it was feared, might be carried out to sea, was found by Ben Thompson of Haskell, N. J., and Fred Hammond of Sussex, N. J., and turned over to the State Police Headquarters in Essex County, whence it was sent here.

However, Mogul balloon train #4 consisted of nine balloons and was loaded with sensitive equipment to spy on Russian activities. It was no ordinary mission. During the Cold War, the information it carried could have been severly damaging in the wrong hands. It is no wonder that it would be moreclosely guarded.

As far as leaving important evidence lying around, had the field been as large as Brazel said, why leave it all just lying there for three or four days before reporting it? Surely he could see this was somethig of value? Personally I'd be picking through it first up. Such is human nature.
Unless he recognised as another one of them balloons.



The disc. In this case refering to the Rawin device.

This information shows up everywhere



In this instance, from here

Aliens have scotch tape? With earth flowers on it??

This site says he was detained for a few hours.
As does this source.
This source states several days.
There seems quite some disagreement on this point.
Which is correct?



It's this sort of thing that casts doubt. Quite a few people seem to just want to make a quick buck or grab 15 mins of fame.

What intruigues me about this case is the groove. My latest difficulty to overcome

On balloon #4, this site, of whch I am sure you approve of, states #4 did in fact take off. It states that there is no surviving flight data on Flight #4, but a record it went up.

From the site :

Whether it was one balloon or 28, there were no Mogul balloon flight #4, and that is why there are no flight records for that balloon train.



The fact that the debris remained undisturbed in an open field is a clear indication that the debris had nothing to do with any classified projects of the military, not to mention that the military knew nothing of any crash until they were notified by a civilian. Some folks missed the boat on that one because if it were a classified project, you can best-believe that the military is not going to wait around for days for a cvilian to let them know that their classified project is in civilian hands.

Mac Brazel didn't know what it was and since he recovered weather balloons on prior occasions, he stated that it wasn't a weather balloon, which the Air Force would finally admit in 1994.



Rawin devices do not shred as a recent experiment had proven, yet the debris was scattered several hundred feet wide by 3/4 of a mile long.



That was a cover story. You will also note that Mac Brazel had stated the following:

"Brazel said that he had previously found two weather balloons on the ranch, but that what he found this time did not in any way resemble either of these."

Brazel's son and friends stated that he was in military custody for a week. The fact that Brazel was taken into custody in the first place is clear evidence that what he recovered was not a Mogul balloon train nor a weather balloon since neither are classified anyway. There was no reason to take any civilian into custody over a weather balloon or a Mogul balloon train since neither of them were classified. Mogul balloons were occasionally recovered by civilians for rewards.

From the link you'd posted.





That wasn't a Mogul balloon flight. People tend to confuse service balloons with Mogul balloons. Service balloons were expendable and the one that was launched on June 4, 1947, didn't carry a rawin device and was not a Mogul balloon train.

Sorry, I stuffed up the link I intended to post This is the one with data pertaining to fligh #4 and it's trajectory.

In addition to Charles Moore's phony numbers, researchers are beginning to come around that there were no Project Mogul balloon launch after all, and that, before the recent Mogul balloon experiment proved beyond any doubt that no Mogul balloon could have been responsible for the Roswell incident.

My grandfather died in February of this year.

My grandfather was originally in the 8th as a navigator but was transferred to the 509th as a 1st lieutenant in 1944 after being shot down over Politz. According to his AF-11, he was an intelligence officer at the time of Roswell. He was heavily involved with SAC until 1963 and was a director of training at March AFB. He did talk about transporting atomic bombs to somewhere in California and how redundant it was. I can't recall the name of the base...Edwards? My mother would know, lol

My grandfather did not embellish his stories and was always quite clear about what was classified or not. Stories about the bombers being too heavy from the weight of the bombs, the Sandia Mountain crash that burned for 3 days, and how how some of his crew were torn apart by flak right before his eyes. These are the stories that I grew up with as a young child. I was 30 years old when he and I discussed Roswell. Entertainment value was not a factor.

How sad. My condolences. I lost my father one year ago - a week from today. Sucks doesn't it, even when it's the full circle of life.
My father was a WWII vetran. he was a POW for his last 9 months. He and I too discussed times we today cannot fathom. He too watched life long friends crushed in the mines before his eyes, then had to bury their body parts.
Sorry if you got the impression I implied your Grandfather embellished stories, not what I meant, in that instance I was referinng to this line of your post



This fellow could well have been distressed at the loss of a friend or loved one considering the time and place. Some Roswell memories are attributed to horriffic crash scenes.
I was trying to say that perhaps he saw the balloon as a non-event? That is how the original incident is depicted. Just exhausting every possibility.

I am agnostic on the Roswell case. Both sides can't even agree on the same basic set of facts of what Brazel found and when. What hope is there for us to figure it out 60 years later? Unless solid new evidence comes forward.

BTW, has there ever been a deathbed confession by someone that debunked the alien aspect of this? Just curious.

The problems I have with Roswell are as follows:
If the ET UFO Hypothesis is true, and they did crash, and the wreckage lay there for quite some times, why didn't the aliens reclaim it? If they couldn't get to it in time, why didn't they steal it back from the government? (If abductee stories are true, they can paralize people, read minds, and go through walls, it should be no problem to penetrate even the highest security installation)

If the intradimensional/demonic/other UFO hypothesis are true, it doesn't seem likely we'd be able to capture the stuff in the first place.

.

Mac Brazel has said on the record, that what he found was not a weather balloon and we know that no Mogul balloon was responsible either and a recent experiment underlined that fact.



Not that I know of. Even Major Edwin Easely on his deathbed, implied that the Roswell incident was an extraterrestrial event and General Arthur Exon, wasn't even on his deathbed when He stated that the Roswell incident was an extraterrestrial event (He later overflew the area and confirmed TWO crash sites, not one.



All indications were, the wreckage was taken to Wright-Patterson AFB, and it was over Wright-Patterson AFB where a military jet took gun footage photos of a flying saucer hovering over that base. Flying saucers were observed and tracked by scientist all over the Roswell area long after the crash took place. Before June Crain, an employee at Wright-Patterson AFB, had died, she indicated that the debris she handled was exotic and she was told about an Air Force member that the debris she handled came directly from the Roswell incident.

Years later, Senator Barry Goldwater wanted to take a look at the material at Wright-Patterson AFB, but was turned down by the military, and later, the Air Force impeded the investitgation into the Roswell incident by Congressman Steven Schiff, and when Congressman Schiff solicited the help from the GAO, the Air Force then told the GAO it had no business getting involved into the Roswell investigation either. Afterwards, the Air Force concocted false cover stories that have been proven as such as well. All of that over a simple experimental balloon train that never flew in the first place???

One has only to ask the questions:

<^> Why has the government been actively impeding investigations into the Roswell incident?

<^> What was it that crashed there 60 years ago that compells the government to continue on with its Roswell cover-up to this very day?

Definitely wasn't a weather balloon, which the Air Force told the public for 47 years until its admission in 1994 that it wasn't a weather balloon after all.!

Good call. I've often wondered this myself. Not that the general public would ever become aware of these 'reclamation incidents', but I it is a great line of reasoning. This is the one thing that makes it so difficult for me to believe any of the captured alien, or autopsy type stories. Would a powerful race of beings allow their associates to be hacked up by us primitive humans?

It's this one question that nags at me. Any crash site you would imagine would be quickly cleaned up or salvaged. I'd imagine there is a lot of equipment and tech they wouldn't want getting into the hands of a destructive race such as ours.... Hmmm...





The problems I have with Roswell are as follows:
If the ET UFO Hypothesis is true, and they did crash, and the wreckage lay there for quite some times, why didn't the aliens reclaim it? If they couldn't get to it in time, why didn't they steal it back from the government? (If abductee stories are true, they can paralize people, read minds, and go through walls, it should be no problem to penetrate even the highest security installation)

If the intradimensional/demonic/other UFO hypothesis are true, it doesn't seem likely we'd be able to capture the stuff in the first place.

There could be a number of reasons such as biological contamination, etc., and I would only be speculating on any of them.

We don't always recover our downed assets either, but in one case, the crash remains of an F-101 Voodoo were brought in from Area 51 and spread around the crash site to cover-up the debris field left by a downed F-117 so the public would think the crash site was that of an F-101, but the Air Force blew it when it declared the crash site a national security zone, and that is what set off the alarm bells because that would not have been done for an ordinary downed F-101, so we knew that something extraordinary had crashed near Bakersfield, California that night. Eventually, the Air Force admitted that it was in fact, the crash site of an F-117 stealth fighter.

All over the world, are crash remains of our aircraft and we found it too impractical to recover them and there are still bodies left upon Mount Everest because the climbers can't bring them down. During the early 1950's there was a special unit of the U.S. Army known as the Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit (IPU), whose primary mission was to recover downed spacecraft. Some folks would say, so what?? Well, when that unit became operational, there were no spacecraft of mankind in space, and operational satellites and manned spaceflight were still years away.

Project Moon Dust and Operation Blue Fly were used to facilitate the recovery missions of the IPU and eventually, the U.S. Army acknowledged that the unit did exist.

Reading your replies is painful.....

A guy says a craft crashed on his farm and he saw alien bodies (forget the 1978 date) 3 days later when he gets released from military custody he says its a weather balloon. Yep nothin fishy about that.

What really happened I am sure is that he knew what he saw and they knew what he saw and they wanted to make damn sure he did not talk about it because aliens are a hell of alot more important that balloons.

Yet in your later post with pictures, they are dated 1947. Which is it?

Also I find it funny, that your opinion of what happened is "better" than anothers. Unless you were there, you have the same evidence everyone else is presented with. Therefore your conclusion can be no better than anothers. Unless of course one or another is right, but as of now we do not know.

(Also, why could it not have been an Extraordinary Weather Balloon? Then it is both Extraordinary, and a Weather Balloon.)

Personally, I've always felt Roswell played a more realistic, critical part in the gov't's handling of ET phenomenon. When radar installations became very wide spread, they noted Foo Fighters, and when they scrambled to intercede, saw something that defied explanation.

Therefore, they concoct Roswell, to hint at Military intervention, and to also mediate public scrutiny of. The big umbrella of the gov't was to be in total control. And, anyone seeing such could be interviewed. And, given what ever line they wanted to be repeated.

I'd say there was more fly-by's than usual due to the new man-made nuclear bomb. Which probably piqued interest, and curiosity as to what man's total destruct behavior would play out.

I've been questioned myself, in cold-call format, and they tend to take matters seriously. If only to thwart some insane person's ideology that the gov't is a manifest of lies and cover-ups, and a forceful attempt to divulge material be undertaken.

I hear tell that under certain lab conditions, foreign DNA materials can be easily detected. And, there's an imposed hush that must be adhered to. This has re initiated the first cover attempt. Roswell.

The balloon photos I posted had nothing to do with the dummy test of the 1950's, but with test that expermented in ways to detect nuclear explosions, so check out the headlines of the news. Doesn't look like the nuclear experiments using balloons in the 1940s were not so secret as the Air Force have led many to believe and the headlines I posted are proof that the Air Force duped those who were unaware of the "rest of the story.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<^>

Princeton, New Jersey, July 12, 1947
Headlines:

Balloons -- Not Discs: Princeton Gadget Soars 20 Miles High; Records

No Atomic Explosions


28 Balloons Fail To Send Reports On Cosmic Rays -- Attain 20-Mile

Altitude, but Equipment Does Not Give Nuclear Explosion Data


Stratosphere Atom Explosions Probed

Sky Experiment Apparatus Found -- Flight in Stratosphere Fails to Show Nuclear Explosions Data

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<^>



With almost 40 years of service with the Air Force, it has to do with experience.



It couldn't have been any balloon and a recent experiment has now proven that, but I didn't need an experiment to prove to me that no Mogul balloon was involved in the Roswell incident. First of all, Mogul balloons were NOT classified and were occasionally recovered by civilians for rewards. Mac Brazel recovered weather balloons before and stated that what he found, was not a weather balloon and in 1994, the Air Force admitted that no weather balloon was involved. It couldn't have been a classified object because the military was unaware of any downed classified projects at that time. Now, a document has been uncovered showing as to where the suggestion to use a weather balloons device came from to cover-up the downed saucers. Two of the military personnel who posed in the Roswell photos have stated that the remains they posed with were placed there for the purpose of a cover-up and was not recovered on the Foster ranch.

There were no items/equipment recovered on the Foster ranch that had anything to do with Project Mogul balloons and the recent experiment has proven that the size of the debris field dismissed any Mogul balloon as responsible for the Roswell incident. The military would not have brought worldwide attention to the area by concocting a false flying disk recovery story, especially since its only nuclear-capable bomber group were located there and the material recovered by the military had nothing to do with any balloon. The Air Force would not have spent thousands of dollars and used several aircraft to transport the Roswell remains to Wright-Patterson AFB to find out what the material was had it truly been a balloon.

Records also show that there were no Mogul balloons launched on June 4, 1947 despited what the Air Force had published in its 1994 Roswell report and that is why researchers can find no flight records pertaining to Mogul balloon train #4. Now, researchers are beginning to come on board that there were no Mogul balloon #4 after all, however, I am very sure those skeptical websites won't change their colors on Roswell, but then again, they in the business of debunking no matter what the facts are.

Aye, it does suck. I miss him dearly. He was my father figure and best friend. Ours was not a typical grandfather/granddaughter relationship so it's easy to misunderstand what he would've disclosed to me. To put it into perspective, however, I am the ONLY family member that is aware that he had an affair while he was stationed in Paris that could've produced a child so that I could acknowledge it if any relative from France came along, looking for family. If it had been a Mogul balloon, he would've outright said so. The man talked to me about classified information, including nuclear testing in the S. Pacific, long before it became declassified. Mogul would've been a nothing in comparison. It was due to this level of trust that made the Roswell incident so painful. He would either be cryptic, always evasive and even outright lied at times when that particuliar topic came up.

I understand what you are thinking it that this memory of an upset friend could've been a sort of misplaced memory. I wish you could've sat in on that particular conversation between my grandpa and I, lol. He was very aware of what time period we were discussing, the circumstances and so on. He said that people on the base were upset and this particular individual was very upset. I don't think that it was a misplaced memory because my grandpa was extremely evasive as to why everyone at the base and this individual were so upset. It was quite clear that he knew why they were upset. He simply was not going to say what the cause was. I know what you mean about exhausting every possibility. Before my grandfather died, I would attempt to talk to him about the Roswell incident, sporadically, because even bringing it up made him uneasy and uncomfortable. I've replayed what he has said and his behavior in my head probably a thousand times and, now that he's gone, it's far worse because it's an unanswered question and something that was left out between us. It makes me mad, lol. It would've been far easier on the both of us if he had simply said that it was a weather balloon and many days, I wish he had said just that.

Which is it, 1947 or 1950?

I didn't ask about Mogul, or any of that other stuff. Just a simple question (to which you left out the first part (conviently ehh?))

First you say that nothing happened before 1950. Let me say that again, you say NOTHING happened before 1950.

And now, the year is 1947. So which is it 1947 or 1950?

The gov't always counters with balloons. And the like. An incident I was involved in was played as balloons. Only thing is, Allies now want this balloon technology, as it seems highly advanced. Well beyond party favors. With cast reflections being non-existent. And, also a great deal of confusion as to why there were no noticeable traces in materials with reflective qualities; ie, waters, mirrors, windshields. Could explain the distortions so many nations complain of. They'd better ante up their notions, as many want realistic beliefs with which to work...not some joke of balloons.