It's offending and disgusting.

What is most disturbing, is the notion that Science feels the need to denigrate one group to preserve the purity of their own. Reminds me of scientists being branded heretics and tortured during the Spanish Inquisition. I guess it's OK for secular scientists to repeat history, just not religious groups. A prime example of hypocrisy.

a book that--while certainly full of scientific errors--is one of the most important literary works of all time.

There's a great deal of hostility on both sides, mainly due to confusion on the boundaries between the two areas. When ID proponents claim that ID is an scientific alternative to evolutionary biology or should be taught in science classes, they're falsely associating ID with science. Science has a specific set of methodologies and criteria that ID certainly can't meet. At the same time, it would be unscientific to suggest we can rule ID out. I imagine the vast majority of the people on this planet (regardless of whether they're familiar with and accept the facts of biological evolution) believe some sort of Intelligent Designer had a role in how life and the universe are playing out. And that's fine but that's a metaphysical sort of concept that science can never touch. Certainly there are limits to science, as I tried to explain here. But that doesn't excuse theology or metaphysics masquerading as science, just as it doesn't excuse any representative of science trashing, in the name of science, a belief system or a book that--while certainly full of scientific errors--is one of the most important literary works of all time.

These are two different areas filling similar needs. Of course there's going to be conflict. But make no mistake, they are very different things.

Also agreed. If I believed in biblical creation, I would probably have a cool and snappy argument. (Conies...you must be British! )

Any way...do you agree it's a little immature to get so riled up as these scientists seem to have done? I personally don't think it's even worth the time for these brilliant minds to be in one place, and spend any time dogging creationists. I say "Shut up and do some math! Prove a theory! Postulate one for Pete's sake! Do anything but debate frikkin unicorns! (pink or otherwise).

So is lord of the rings, maybe we should take it for fact and make it into a religion.

lol, well I was actually curious to see what the answer would be. First time I ever really got to use that arguement in a discussion before.
I don't and I agree with them on this issue. They're only riled up because of what the other side is offering. To take a stand against other ideas for better scientific understanding is a wonderful thing. It allows us to grow as a species and better ourselves as we shed old myths and ideas. Creationists have to be dealt with anyways because of the threats they impose on science, understanding and bettering ourselves. To give people the other side and tell them why it's right compared to the other side gives people infomation that they can choose to do with as they'd like.
*raises sword high in the air*

FFFFFFFFRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

so your saying that you have to "deal" with creationists, because they pose a threat to science?

hmmm.......

Yeah. Though as I mentioned as well about giving infomation and letting others choose.

Creationists have to be challenged because of what they preach.

the odds of our existence, with all the ins and outs of life, coming about naturally are so astronomically improbable, that by MY rationale, it was intentionally designed to do so.

Interesting statement, i didn't see you as the scientist type.

*FIGHT SCIENCE WITH SCIENCE (THAT I JUST CAME UP WITH)*

okay. of course we have to be challenged. but if your saying ID is COMPLETELY unfounded, id have to say thats false. the odds of our existence, with all the ins and outs of life, coming about naturally are so astronomically improbable, that by MY rationale, it was intentionally designed to do so.

granted though, this is largely based on the awe that we cant comprehend the improbability. its possible that science will shed light on it in the future to help explain how things happen. in fact its probable. but i dont think were anywhere near capable of understanding it.

my view, i admit, is biasedlly tainted, in the fact that even if you explain the mechanics of our universe, it doesnt take away the grandeur of gods miraculous design. science only supports my faith. the more we learn, the more in awe i stand, and the more solid my faith becomes.

If it's not completely unfounded, do you have any evidence to suggest otherwise?

To simply say that we're complexed and then to give all credit to some higher being is a bit far fetched. Firstly you have zero evidence of higher beings like gods; secondly you're deaming our own existance and struggles by giving our credit over to some god; thirdly... I don't know... Three sounded like a good number to end on.

Well that's really just your opinion then. If you want to bend and twist your religious beliefs the more we learn, go for it. Many other religions have done the same because the religions that failed to evolve with a changing society and with more facts coming in are now dead myths overall. You may think the universe is designed but it's full of just as many flaws as we are... We're simply designoid rather than designed. From the outside and with limited infomation we are marveled at how we became but the more we dig and learn about ourselves we are flawed creatures that have spent billions of years taking into this shape. Same goes for the entire universe.

Granted no one has any idea how we began or how the universe started... It's a bit primitive to suggest a god did it.

Maybe instead of using hypocrisy, you should say human nature. It is human nature to defend itself, to rail against those who don't hold the same beliefs and to rise against oppression (real or imagined). So, if it's "good for the goose, it's good for the gander". Both sides do it, and that is the reality of the situation.

lol, well I was actually curious to see what the answer would be. First time I ever really got to use that arguement in a discussion before.
I don't and I agree with them on this issue. They're only riled up because of what the other side is offering. To take a stand against other ideas for better scientific understanding is a wonderful thing. It allows us to grow as a species and better ourselves as we shed old myths and ideas. Creationists have to be dealt with anyways because of the threats they impose on science, understanding and bettering ourselves. To give people the other side and tell them why it's right compared to the other side gives people infomation that they can choose to do with as they'd like.
*raises sword high in the air*

FFFFFFFFRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

There's a great deal of hostility on both sides, mainly due to confusion on the boundaries between the two areas.

So is lord of the rings, maybe we should take it for fact and make it into a religion.

listen, every scientific fact ever discovered was at one time only a theory, like id and evolution. i feel, that evidence can either point to one way or the other. i agree that if science completely rules out id from the get go, thats extremely unscientific. i feel the evidence, as a whole, points torward creation. now, i have to concede possible future scientific discoveries that can shed light on these issues. but yes, science has limits. science explains "how" things work, but not really "why" they work.

anyways. Scientists are comming together to give testimony on their beliefs about something? Can we say they are organizing a religion? The hypocrisy is ripe here.

hey, a quote from an atheists aggrandizing athiests! I'm sold <~~~~sarcasm

Yeah well Organized religion deserves bashing. Because organized religon is the cause of millions upon millions of deaths : Crusades,Inquisition,Jihad,Terrorism. Organized religion takes god away from man and gives it to a few elite "priests" Who are closer to god(give me a freaking break) no one is closer or farther from God I dont need any Human to tell me how to worship or who to worship. Oraginzed religion held back science long enough, Organized religion is useless and not needed any more. We are out of the dark ages thank you and plan to stay that way. IF you want good Religious schooling move to Kandahar or Tehran. They wont waste your time with nonsence like math or science but you will be able to remember which non believers were massacred, which non believers first born was killed, you will remember how to burn witches and the stake.

They're just not bashing religion but any other "theories" that are against evolution. Religion has a tough stance against evolution while pushing "theories" like creation and intelligent design.

Give me one reason why religion should be respected as equal to evolution and science just for the theories of life that they put out on their billboards.

I mean come on... Believers are taking creation stories from the same book that claims that the earth is flat, bats are really birds, that jews cannot eat meat because all the clean animals were killed, says snakes eat dust, says a flood covered the earth, that perhaps when a child is made in goats whatever the parent sees then at the moment is what the kid will have streaks on the coats, camels don't have split hoofs, says hares and conies eat cud, some birds have 4 feet, beetles really have 4 legs, that unicorns existed and that firey serpents existed.

Every single last one of those examples has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt through evidence and research as utterly false; yet the bible states them as facts. Then some of those claims simply have no evidence at all to back them up at all.
Really? That sounds a whole lot like creationists and id followers... Always claiming victory with nothing to stand on. I'm sorry but what evidence do you have that you've won because just the claim of it?

I mean... Right now you're a football team claiming the super bowl title even before the season starts.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
-Carl Sagan

Snide, yet a bit of truth methinks. I must ponder this.

Snide is the word for it

hey, a quote from an atheists aggrandizing athiests! I'm sold <~~~~sarcasm

"If Atheism is a religion, then health is a disease!"
-Clark Adams