Scientists Gather at Salk Institute to Bash Religion
Both Uncommon Descent and Telic Thoughts are discussing how less than 1 mile up the road from UCSD, scientists gathered last week at The Salk Institute for Biological Studies to bash religion. The New York Times' science section covered the conference, but failed to recognize that many ID-proponents accept Big Bang cosmology and even find it is evidence indicating cosmic design. Nonetheless, the vitriol and hatred coming from these scientists against religion is striking. Consider these excerpts from the article:
[O]ne speaker after another called on their colleagues to be less timid in challenging teachings about nature based only on scripture and belief . . . With a rough consensus that the grand stories of evolution by natural selection and the blossoming of the universe from the Big Bang are losing out in the intellectual marketplace, most of the discussion came down to strategy . . . By the third day, the arguments had become so heated that Dr. Konner was reminded of “a den of vipers.” “With a few notable exceptions,” he said, “the viewpoints have run the gamut from A to B. Should we bash religion with a crowbar or only with a baseball bat?”
(George Johnson, "A Free-for-All on Science and Religion," The New York Times [November 21, 2006], emphasis added)
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2006/11/scien..._salk_inst.html
What is most disturbing, is the notion that Science feels the need to denigrate one group to preserve the purity of their own. Reminds me of scientists being branded heretics and tortured during the Spanish Inquisition. I guess it's OK for secular scientists to repeat history, just not religious groups. A prime example of hypocrisy.
Full Version: Evolution and the bashing of religion
QUOTE(eqgumby @ Jul 3 2007, 08:46 AM) 
What is most disturbing, is the notion that Science feels the need to denigrate one group to preserve the purity of their own. Reminds me of scientists being branded heretics and tortured during the Spanish Inquisition. I guess it's OK for secular scientists to repeat history, just not religious groups. A prime example of hypocrisy.
When the group your against starts insulting you, you know you've won.
The Spanish inquisition ?
I don't see scientists setting fire to or torturing religious believers, or forcing them on pain of death to recant their beliefs.
Therefore I can not agree with the comparison.
That Spanish Inquisition gets batted around as much as slavery and the Holocaust; all I can say is....get over it people...it was a very long time ago and none of us were there for any of them. 
QUOTE
When the group your against starts insulting you, you know you've won.
That would indicate that science won a few thousand years ago.
QUOTE
What is most disturbing, is the notion that Science feels the need to denigrate one group to preserve the purity of their own. Reminds me of scientists being branded heretics and tortured during the Spanish Inquisition. I guess it's OK for secular scientists to repeat history, just not religious groups. A prime example of hypocrisy.
Yeah. Scientists are just torturing those believers with their words. It must be so terrible to be insulted by a small group of people, every bit as terrible as it would've been horrible to have your face seared off in the inquisition
.. I don't think I could bear it. Oh, by the way, Christians insult science and evolution plenty.Why is someone instantly a monster if they're not politically correct in their own quarters?
The point is pretty clear. If you choose to ignore it, that's up to you guys.
No one was implying that anyone was being tortured. The comparison is apt, in that one group is belittling another based on beliefs. And for some of these academics, being black-balled and shunned by their peer group because they have a different set of beliefs is torture, as well as unfair, inconsiderate, and intolerant. It still reeks of hypocrisy.
No one was implying that anyone was being tortured. The comparison is apt, in that one group is belittling another based on beliefs. And for some of these academics, being black-balled and shunned by their peer group because they have a different set of beliefs is torture, as well as unfair, inconsiderate, and intolerant. It still reeks of hypocrisy.
QUOTE(eqgumby @ Jul 3 2007, 04:58 PM)
The point is pretty clear. If you choose to ignore it, that's up to you guys.
No one was implying that anyone was being tortured. The comparison is apt, in that one group is belittling another based on beliefs. And for some of these academics, being black-balled and shunned by their peer group because they have a different set of beliefs is torture, as well as unfair, inconsiderate, and intolerant. It still reeks of hypocrisy.
No one was implying that anyone was being tortured. The comparison is apt, in that one group is belittling another based on beliefs. And for some of these academics, being black-balled and shunned by their peer group because they have a different set of beliefs is torture, as well as unfair, inconsiderate, and intolerant. It still reeks of hypocrisy.
And everybody does it. Every last religion. Why's there such a fuss because a few scientists decided to do it? It's not violence, and I think people can handle their emotions enough to let other people have unique thoughts about their beliefs. I don't care if a Christian thinks the theory of evolution is stupid, it's their right to think it's stupid, act like it's stupid, and say it's stupid. They'll sound immature in doing it, but it's their right nonetheless. Why is everyone acting like they have some express right to not be offended lately?
Yeah well Organized religion deserves bashing. Because organized religon is the cause of millions upon millions of deaths : Crusades,Inquisition,Jihad,Terrorism. Organized religion takes god away from man and gives it to a few elite "priests" Who are closer to god(give me a freaking break) no one is closer or farther from God I dont need any Human to tell me how to worship or who to worship. Oraginzed religion held back science long enough, Organized religion is useless and not needed any more. We are out of the dark ages thank you and plan to stay that way. IF you want good Religious schooling move to Kandahar or Tehran. They wont waste your time with nonsence like math or science but you will be able to remember which non believers were massacred, which non believers first born was killed, you will remember how to burn witches and the stake.
QUOTE(Child-Of-Israel @ Jul 3 2007, 08:55 AM)
When the group your against starts insulting you, you know you've won.
So that means you have really won when the other group talks about you spending an eternity in an everlasting fire?
QUOTE(Oxymoron @ Jul 3 2007, 12:20 PM)
Yeah well Organized religion deserves bashing. Because organized religon is the cause of millions upon millions of deaths : Crusades,Inquisition,Jihad,Terrorism. Organized religion takes god away from man and gives it to a few elite "priests" Who are closer to god(give me a freaking break) no one is closer or farther from God I dont need any Human to tell me how to worship or who to worship. Oraginzed religion held back science long enough, Organized religion is useless and not needed any more. We are out of the dark ages thank you and plan to stay that way. IF you want good Religious schooling move to Kandahar or Tehran. They wont waste your time with nonsence like math or science but you will be able to remember which non believers were massacred, which non believers first born was killed, you will remember how to burn witches and the stake.
Blah blah blah...same old stuff. Get some new material guys! We know already. So is the bubonic plague, the weather, communism, and the flu.
How is it that NO ONE wants to answer for the hypocrisy? It's OK to discriminate? It's OK to belittle, and Hate? Because it's POPULAR? Because it's just a "few scientists", that makes it OK? What if it was just a "few scientists" saying Blacks were biologically inferior to Caucasians? What if it was just a "few scientists" saying homosexuality is NOT biological? I bet those "few scientists" would be excommunicated from academia, and secular liberals would lead the charge. And THAT would be OK?
QUOTE(Vacamion @ Jul 3 2007, 05:19 PM)
The Spanish inquisition ?
I don't see scientists setting fire to or torturing religious believers, or forcing them on pain of death to recant their beliefs.
Therefore I can not agree with the comparison.
I don't see scientists setting fire to or torturing religious believers, or forcing them on pain of death to recant their beliefs.
Therefore I can not agree with the comparison.
The Spanish Inquisition seems to have had two versions of it ,one is http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/998159/posts
fullywired
QUOTE(fullywired @ Jul 3 2007, 11:59 AM)
The Spanish Inquisition seems to have had two versions of it ,one is http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/998159/posts
fullywired
fullywired
Maybe instead of using hypocrisy, you should say human nature. It is human nature to defend itself, to rail against those who don't hold the same beliefs and to rise against oppression (real or imagined). So, if it's "good for the goose, it's good for the gander". Both sides do it, and that is the reality of the situation.
Two points:
1. The scientific comunity is pushing back in the face of people who want to teach made up science in the classrooms.
2. The argument that religion has killed millions is not a very strong one. Atheists who say that have to answer to Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. Of course, those three were communists, and they mostly murdered dissenters who might damage their hold over their countries. Hitler was a Catholic, but he wasn't driven by religion, he just used it for more power over the people, so we can discount him. I'm sure if you tally up all the deaths caused by religion and all the deaths caused by atheism, religion will come out far ahead, but you have to remember that it is people who commit these acts, some may be driven by scripture, some might have alterior motives which they justify with scripture.
1. The scientific comunity is pushing back in the face of people who want to teach made up science in the classrooms.
2. The argument that religion has killed millions is not a very strong one. Atheists who say that have to answer to Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. Of course, those three were communists, and they mostly murdered dissenters who might damage their hold over their countries. Hitler was a Catholic, but he wasn't driven by religion, he just used it for more power over the people, so we can discount him. I'm sure if you tally up all the deaths caused by religion and all the deaths caused by atheism, religion will come out far ahead, but you have to remember that it is people who commit these acts, some may be driven by scripture, some might have alterior motives which they justify with scripture.
QUOTE(Fluffybunny @ Jul 3 2007, 10:45 AM)
So that means you have really won when the other group talks about you spending an eternity in an everlasting fire?
I suppose if it were possible for you to be offended by something you don't believe will happen, than yes. But then again, where does this everlasting fire idea come from?
QUOTE(Michelle @ Jul 3 2007, 04:41 PM)
That Spanish Inquisition gets batted around as much as slavery and the Holocaust; all I can say is....get over it people...it was a very long time ago and none of us were there for any of them.
this is true. its futile to group the many into the fire of a few.
QUOTE(Cradle of Fish @ Jul 3 2007, 02:19 PM)
Two points:
1. The scientific comunity is pushing back in the face of people who want to teach made up science in the classrooms.
2. The argument that religion has killed millions is not a very strong one. Atheists who say that have to answer to Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. Of course, those three were communists, and they mostly murdered dissenters who might damage their hold over their countries. Hitler was a Catholic, but he wasn't driven by religion, he just used it for more power over the people, so we can discount him. I'm sure if you tally up all the deaths caused by religion and all the deaths caused by atheism, religion will come out far ahead, but you have to remember that it is people who commit these acts, some may be driven by scripture, some might have alterior motives which they justify with scripture.
1. The scientific comunity is pushing back in the face of people who want to teach made up science in the classrooms.
2. The argument that religion has killed millions is not a very strong one. Atheists who say that have to answer to Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. Of course, those three were communists, and they mostly murdered dissenters who might damage their hold over their countries. Hitler was a Catholic, but he wasn't driven by religion, he just used it for more power over the people, so we can discount him. I'm sure if you tally up all the deaths caused by religion and all the deaths caused by atheism, religion will come out far ahead, but you have to remember that it is people who commit these acts, some may be driven by scripture, some might have alterior motives which they justify with scripture.
I understand the "pushing back" argument, but personally, I would hope academia would be above childish tit-for-tat behavior, and that's exactly what I see here. It's hypocritical.
And the fact that it's PEOPLE committing these acts, is one I have tried to make dozens of times, yet since it does not fit some peoples agendas, it is discounted. The answer is consistently...
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QUOTE(Oxymoron @ Jul 3 2007, 12:20 PM)
Yeah well Organized religion deserves bashing. Because organized religion is the cause of millions upon millions of deaths : Crusades,Inquisition,Jihad,Terrorism. Organized religion takes god away from man and gives it to a few elite "priests" Who are closer to god(give me a freaking break) no one is closer or farther from God I dont need any Human to tell me how to worship or who to worship. Oraginzed religion held back science long enough, Organized religion is useless and not needed any more. We are out of the dark ages thank you and plan to stay that way. IF you want good Religious schooling move to Kandahar or Tehran. They wont waste your time with nonsence like math or science but you will be able to remember which non believers were massacred, which non believers first born was killed, you will remember how to burn witches and the stake.
Yeah well Organized religion deserves bashing. Because organized religion is the cause of millions upon millions of deaths : Crusades,Inquisition,Jihad,Terrorism. Organized religion takes god away from man and gives it to a few elite "priests" Who are closer to god(give me a freaking break) no one is closer or farther from God I dont need any Human to tell me how to worship or who to worship. Oraginzed religion held back science long enough, Organized religion is useless and not needed any more. We are out of the dark ages thank you and plan to stay that way. IF you want good Religious schooling move to Kandahar or Tehran. They wont waste your time with nonsence like math or science but you will be able to remember which non believers were massacred, which non believers first born was killed, you will remember how to burn witches and the stake.
Great come-back...
QUOTE(KBA @ Jul 3 2007, 05:05 PM)
And everybody does it. Every last religion. Why's there such a fuss because a few scientists decided to do it? It's not violence, and I think people can handle their emotions enough to let other people have unique thoughts about their beliefs. I don't care if a Christian thinks the theory of evolution is stupid, it's their right to think it's stupid, act like it's stupid, and say it's stupid. They'll sound immature in doing it, but it's their right nonetheless. Why is everyone acting like they have some express right to not be offended lately?
i agree about a few things here, first off, if you come on here posting, your going to get offended. so just get it out of your system before you start.
um, evolution is a many-faceted topic. so calling a christian immature for not gobbling up evolution is immature in itself. but i agree there are points to evolution that a christian cant argue, so you've either got to make your peace with the issue, or understand that the bible doesn't even contradict evolution-to a point-in the first place.
atheists approach their beliefs with as much zeal and passion as a christian does his beliefs. non-belief is an atheists religion, and they are just as capable of offensive behavior as a christian defending his beliefs.
QUOTE(eqgumby @ Jul 3 2007, 04:46 PM)
What is most disturbing, is the notion that Science feels the need to denigrate one group to preserve the purity of their own. Reminds me of scientists being branded heretics and tortured during the Spanish Inquisition. I guess it's OK for secular scientists to repeat history, just not religious groups. A prime example of hypocrisy.
When Dawrin first came up with the theory of evolution...it was in NO WAY to bash or disprove God.........he was just a smart man that was able to make new discoveries....he never said God don't exist
If other scientist are out to bash religion...thats sad...but its not the real agenda behind science
Without science, not one of us could get through an entire day
QUOTE(Oxymoron @ Jul 3 2007, 05:20 PM)
Yeah well Organized religion deserves bashing. Because organized religon is the cause of millions upon millions of deaths : Crusades,Inquisition,Jihad,Terrorism. Organized religion takes god away from man and gives it to a few elite "priests" Who are closer to god(give me a freaking break) no one is closer or farther from God I dont need any Human to tell me how to worship or who to worship. Oraginzed religion held back science long enough, Organized religion is useless and not needed any more. We are out of the dark ages thank you and plan to stay that way. IF you want good Religious schooling move to Kandahar or Tehran. They wont waste your time with nonsence like math or science but you will be able to remember which non believers were massacred, which non believers first born was killed, you will remember how to burn witches and the stake.
WRONG! you show me a christian doctrate or scripture that promotes going out and killing people who dont believe the same as you. organized religion hasnt killed millions upon millions of people. listen carefully. PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE. religious scapegoating is ridiculous. now, have some people throught history who "claimed" to be christians made some horrific decisions? of course. but how can you blame these things on christianity itself when it never promoted it in the first place?
and if you claim were out of the dark ages, your wrong. human tradegy is just as prevailant as it was back then. the methods of the madness differ, but the end result is still the same.
the bible is like a person, in the sense that if you torture it enough, you'll get it to say what you want to hear.
ive always had this saying: we didnt evolve from animals, were evolving into them.
QUOTE(Fluffybunny @ Jul 3 2007, 05:45 PM)
So that means you have really won when the other group talks about you spending an eternity in an everlasting fire?
ive made this mistake before.
judgement is reserved for god alone, so dont assume someone is going to hell, because its not your call. please dont portray christians as judgemental, when christ himself said not to judge others.
leave the judgement for those worth of it.
You know if you read the entire article instead of picking and choosing your quotes, you come away with a totally different viewpoint. It sounds to me more like your average day on the forums rather than an organized attempt at religion bashing. 
Full Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/21/science/...p;ex=1183608000
Source: http://beyondbelief2006.org/about/
QUOTE
With atheists and agnostics outnumbering the faithful (a few believing scientists, like Francis S. Collins, author of “The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief,” were invited but could not attend), one speaker after another called on their colleagues to be less timid in challenging teachings about nature based only on scripture and belief. “The core of science is not a mathematical model; it is intellectual honesty,” said Sam Harris, a doctoral student in neuroscience and the author of “The End of Faith: Religion, Terror and the Future of Reason” and “Letter to a Christian Nation.”
“Every religion is making claims about the way the world is,” he said. “These are claims about the divine origin of certain books, about the virgin birth of certain people, about the survival of the human personality after death. These claims purport to be about reality.”
By shying away from questioning people’s deeply felt beliefs, even the skeptics, Mr. Harris said, are providing safe harbor for ideas that are at best mistaken and at worst dangerous. “I don’t know how many more engineers and architects need to fly planes into our buildings before we realize that this is not merely a matter of lack of education or economic despair,” he said.
“Every religion is making claims about the way the world is,” he said. “These are claims about the divine origin of certain books, about the virgin birth of certain people, about the survival of the human personality after death. These claims purport to be about reality.”
By shying away from questioning people’s deeply felt beliefs, even the skeptics, Mr. Harris said, are providing safe harbor for ideas that are at best mistaken and at worst dangerous. “I don’t know how many more engineers and architects need to fly planes into our buildings before we realize that this is not merely a matter of lack of education or economic despair,” he said.
QUOTE
With a rough consensus that the grand stories of evolution by natural selection and the blossoming of the universe from the Big Bang are losing out in the intellectual marketplace, most of the discussion came down to strategy. How can science fight back without appearing to be just one more ideology?
Full Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/21/science/...p;ex=1183608000
QUOTE
Just 40 years after a famous TIME magazine cover asked "Is God Dead?" the answer appears to be a resounding "No!" According to a survey by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life in a recent issue of Foreign Policy magazine, "God is Winning". Religions are increasingly a geopolitical force to be reckoned with. Fundamentalist movements - some violent in the extreme - are growing. Science and religion are at odds in the classrooms and courtrooms. And a return to religious values is widely touted as an antidote to the alleged decline in public morality. After two centuries, could this be twilight for the Enlightenment project and the beginning of a new age of unreason? Will faith and dogma trump rational inquiry, or will it be possible to reconcile religious and scientific worldviews? Can evolutionary biology, anthropology and neuroscience help us to better understand how we construct beliefs, and experience empathy, fear and awe? Can science help us create a new rational narrative as poetic and powerful as those that have traditionally sustained societies? Can we treat religion as a natural phenomenon? Can we be good without God? And if not God, then what?
This is a critical moment in the human situation, and The Science Network in association with the Crick-Jacobs Center brought together an extraordinary group of scientists and philosophers to explore answers to these questions. The conversation took place at the Salk Institute, La Jolla, CA from November 5-7, 2006.
This is a critical moment in the human situation, and The Science Network in association with the Crick-Jacobs Center brought together an extraordinary group of scientists and philosophers to explore answers to these questions. The conversation took place at the Salk Institute, La Jolla, CA from November 5-7, 2006.
Source: http://beyondbelief2006.org/about/
QUOTE(KingKarma420 @ Jul 3 2007, 02:38 PM)
i agree about a few things here, first off, if you come on here posting, your going to get offended. so just get it out of your system before you start.
TOTALLY agree.
QUOTE(KingKarma420 @ Jul 3 2007, 02:38 PM)
um, evolution is a many-faceted topic. so calling a christian immature for not gobbling up evolution is immature in itself. but i agree there are points to evolution that a christian cant argue, so you've either got to make your peace with the issue, or understand that the bible doesn't even contradict evolution-to a point-in the first place.
YUP!
QUOTE(KingKarma420 @ Jul 3 2007, 02:38 PM)
atheists approach their beliefs with as much zeal and passion as a christian does his beliefs. non-belief is an atheists religion, and they are just as capable of offensive behavior as a christian defending his beliefs.
Some might disagree here, but I certainly see how you got here.
YOU my friend, have really gotten to the point! Maybe unwittingly, maybe intentionally! That point is...Atheists can be just as unforgiving, immature, and agenda-driven as any "believer"! What I find sad is that oh-so-many of them INSIST they are above such behavior, yet...there they go again!
*takes a bow*
I deserve that! Someone got my point!
Now, for all of you that read this...lets discuss these issues WITH THIS IN MIND!
QUOTE(KingKarma420 @ Jul 3 2007, 08:43 PM)
WRONG! you show me a christian doctrate or scripture that promotes going out and killing people who dont believe the same as you.
Right here in their bible..->Leviticus 20:13 - If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads
Sorry mate but you did ask
QUOTE(eqgumby @ Jul 3 2007, 07:50 PM)
TOTALLY agree.
YUP!
Some might disagree here, but I certainly see how you got here.
YOU my friend, have really gotten to the point! Maybe unwittingly, maybe intentionally! That point is...Atheists can be just as unforgiving, immature, and agenda-driven as any "believer"! What I find sad is that oh-so-many of them INSIST they are above such behavior, yet...there they go again!
*takes a bow*
I deserve that! Someone got my point!
Now, for all of you that read this...lets discuss these issues WITH THIS IN MIND!
YUP!
Some might disagree here, but I certainly see how you got here.
YOU my friend, have really gotten to the point! Maybe unwittingly, maybe intentionally! That point is...Atheists can be just as unforgiving, immature, and agenda-driven as any "believer"! What I find sad is that oh-so-many of them INSIST they are above such behavior, yet...there they go again!
*takes a bow*
I deserve that! Someone got my point!
Now, for all of you that read this...lets discuss these issues WITH THIS IN MIND!
the reality is that a human can make decisions on both ends of the spectrum. the pendulum swings both ways. but we must be careful not to judge atheists, where it isnt our place to do so. im sure that an atheist is more than capable of making a sound moral decision with or without christianity.
QUOTE(KingKarma420 @ Jul 3 2007, 08:59 PM)
the reality is that a human can make decisions on both ends of the spectrum. the pendulum swings both ways. but we must be careful not to judge atheists, where it isnt our place to do so. im sure that an atheist is more than capable of making a sound moral decision with or without christianity.
WELL SAID...quite right you are
I dont think anyone needs a book to tell them how to live their lives or how to act like good people...its all in your OWN human nater how you are as a person
I like how the OP poster posts only the quote from the Discovery Institute's site, which, when you go there, links you to the "Please Sign In" page. Here's the actual New York Times article.
In any case, it was supposed to be a forum between believers and skeptics, and included some of the most vocal skeptics out there like Dawkins and Weinberg. That pretty much guarantees sparks will fly, and, as the article points out, it was more akin to a "raging debate" than some kind of Inquisition, and the OP Poster makes it out to be.
In any case, it was supposed to be a forum between believers and skeptics, and included some of the most vocal skeptics out there like Dawkins and Weinberg. That pretty much guarantees sparks will fly, and, as the article points out, it was more akin to a "raging debate" than some kind of Inquisition, and the OP Poster makes it out to be.
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jul 3 2007, 07:56 PM)
Right here in their bible..->Leviticus 20:13 - If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads
Sorry mate but you did ask
Sorry mate but you did ask
now, i believe anyone has the right to act on their own free will. i dont think homosexuality is natural. a man is not physically designed to lay with another man. he is designed for intercourse with a woman. plus i think its gross. but, i have had gay friends and after i got past the judgemental side of my character, i thought they were pretty cool. although i dont agree, like with atheism, i accept their rights of free will.
all that scripture says is that god doesnt approve. the "death" and "blood on their own heads" is reserved for gods judgement alone. it doesnt say "its your responsibility as a human to literally go and kill these people." its a warning to reevaluate your position. this is taken out of context. the scribes of the bible arent so inept at literature as to make such a statement that directly contradicts the creed to not judge another man, lest ye be judged yourself. if they are put to death, its gods doing, and was never intended to be carried out by man.
like i said earlier, the bible is similiar to a person, if you torture it enough, it will say whatever you want it to say
but then again, im not a biblical scholar. for all i know, like much of the bible, this is a mistranslation in the first place.
QUOTE(KingKarma420 @ Jul 3 2007, 09:07 PM)
now, i believe anyone has the right to act on their own free will. i dont think homosexuality is natural. a man is not physically designed to lay with another man. he is designed for intercourse with a woman. plus i think its gross. but, i have had gay friends and after i got past the judgemental side of my character, i thought they were pretty cool. although i dont agree, like with atheism, i accept their rights of free will.
I just highlighted your ignorance and your contradicting all with in a couple of sentences.........one hand you think ANYONE (that means ALL) has the RIGHT (as you love to put it)....to act on their OWN free will............then you go on to say just how gross it is and how un-natural it is...calling it gross is an insult to these people that you believe god has created...very touching!!!
I am only too glad i dont think like this...IF I state I am for peoples rights...I AM for ALL their rights...i will not lower my tone, by saying someones life and how they are born is GROSS..(you didnt mention how they were born..but in reality is it how they are born..gay..its their natural sexuality)........but you have
Now about them being born gay....is no different than you being born straight..........
Can you explain to me for a moment, and tell me what it is that makes you feel any attraction..for the opposite sex?? what is it...can you explain the science or anything behind it?? Or is your answer ----------> I just am that way??
I know for a fact you can't begin to explain it, all you know is...you are straight...its all you know ofYou go on about re-production of sex...in order to produce kids......well see here's the thing - thats all man and wonen can do is re-produce??? what about those of us that share love for a partner????? without re-producing???
I show my love to my partner Gary through the same way...but why is it ok for me and not ok for a gay person to show his love to another human being??
Why does it disgust people (only th ignorant people)...what people do in private BEHIND CLOSED DOORS??? <--only sad lil annoying people are grossed out by things that is not their business...and these people need to lighten up and get a clue.............Whos business is it anyway...i sure as heck dont go talking about what me and my man get up to...
I would hate to see it, if that bible read that all those handicapped where un-natural and sinners...god help us all if that were written...im surprized its not there..something tells me it could have been, only later removed
My motto is this (not aimed at anyone here) ---> You cant help who you are...you cannot explain why you feel love for another...love who you are and Ignore the dummies that only fear what they dont understand
I believe in KARMA..and hope that for every single last ignorant person that says gays are gross people...and are willing to put them down.............what goes around WILL come around...you could find yourselves having a kid thats gay..or someone close to you..anything...but it happens
And if you are going to brag how you are for peoples rights......dont bloody insult them while you are at it...you only make yourself look bad
QUOTE(Guardsman Bass @ Jul 3 2007, 02:03 PM)
I like how the OP poster posts only the quote from the Discovery Institute's site, which, when you go there, links you to the "Please Sign In" page. Here's the actual New York Times article.
In any case, it was supposed to be a forum between believers and skeptics, and included some of the most vocal skeptics out there like Dawkins and Weinberg. That pretty much guarantees sparks will fly, and, as the article points out, it was more akin to a "raging debate" than some kind of Inquisition, and the OP Poster makes it out to be.
In any case, it was supposed to be a forum between believers and skeptics, and included some of the most vocal skeptics out there like Dawkins and Weinberg. That pretty much guarantees sparks will fly, and, as the article points out, it was more akin to a "raging debate" than some kind of Inquisition, and the OP Poster makes it out to be.
If you go to my previous post I included a link to the website, it looks like they have another
QUOTE(Guardsman Bass @ Jul 3 2007, 03:03 PM)
I like how the OP poster posts only the quote from the Discovery Institute's site, which, when you go there, links you to the "Please Sign In" page. Here's the actual New York Times article.
Sorry my link was off. I thought I had the right one. I just tried the link, and it didn't do what you said it did. I'll re-check it.
QUOTE(Guardsman Bass @ Jul 3 2007, 03:03 PM)
In any case, it was supposed to be a forum between believers and skeptics, and included some of the most vocal skeptics out there like Dawkins and Weinberg. That pretty much guarantees sparks will fly, and, as the article points out, it was more akin to a "raging debate" than some kind of Inquisition, and the OP Poster makes it out to be.
You're missing the point Bass. Karma seemed to sum up the point pretty well. Debate is good, even some dissension in the ranks. But DISCOURAGING one view while ENCOURAGING another view based on belief or faith is simply foolish. If you believe in a Pink Unicorn, go for it! Worship it! Debate it's existence! Just don't make a law saying I can't disagree! On the other hand, it's only fair that I treat your belief with respect and not mock you, belittle you, vilify you, or pass laws saying you can't say "I love the great Pink Unicorn"! Heck, I'll be a real grown-up and not tell your children in school that their Daddy is a liar, and their is no such thing as the Pink Unicorn. Why? Because it's the RIGHT thing to do!
QUOTE
QUOTE(KingKarma420 @ Jul 3 2007, 02:38 PM)
i agree about a few things here, first off, if you come on here posting, your going to get offended. so just get it out of your system before you start.
TOTALLY agree.
QUOTE(KingKarma420 @ Jul 3 2007, 02:38 PM)
um, evolution is a many-faceted topic. so calling a christian immature for not gobbling up evolution is immature in itself. but i agree there are points to evolution that a christian cant argue, so you've either got to make your peace with the issue, or understand that the bible doesn't even contradict evolution-to a point-in the first place.
YUP!
QUOTE(KingKarma420 @ Jul 3 2007, 02:38 PM)
atheists approach their beliefs with as much zeal and passion as a christian does his beliefs. non-belief is an atheists religion, and they are just as capable of offensive behavior as a christian defending his beliefs.
Some might disagree here, but I certainly see how you got here.
YOU my friend, have really gotten to the point! Maybe unwittingly, maybe intentionally! That point is...Atheists can be just as unforgiving, immature, and agenda-driven as any "believer"! What I find sad is that oh-so-many of them INSIST they are above such behavior, yet...there they go again!
i agree about a few things here, first off, if you come on here posting, your going to get offended. so just get it out of your system before you start.
TOTALLY agree.
QUOTE(KingKarma420 @ Jul 3 2007, 02:38 PM)
um, evolution is a many-faceted topic. so calling a christian immature for not gobbling up evolution is immature in itself. but i agree there are points to evolution that a christian cant argue, so you've either got to make your peace with the issue, or understand that the bible doesn't even contradict evolution-to a point-in the first place.
YUP!
QUOTE(KingKarma420 @ Jul 3 2007, 02:38 PM)
atheists approach their beliefs with as much zeal and passion as a christian does his beliefs. non-belief is an atheists religion, and they are just as capable of offensive behavior as a christian defending his beliefs.
Some might disagree here, but I certainly see how you got here.
YOU my friend, have really gotten to the point! Maybe unwittingly, maybe intentionally! That point is...Atheists can be just as unforgiving, immature, and agenda-driven as any "believer"! What I find sad is that oh-so-many of them INSIST they are above such behavior, yet...there they go again!
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jul 3 2007, 03:27 PM)
I just highlighted your ignorance and your contradicting all with in a couple of sentences.........one hand you think ANYONE (that means ALL) has the RIGHT (as you love to put it)....to act on their OWN free will............then you go on to say just how gross it is and how un-natural it is...calling it gross is an insult to these people that you believe god has created...very touching!!!
*snip*
*snip*
Psst. I think two guys kissing is as gross as my gay sister thinks a guy and a girl kissing is. She rolls her eyes when I kiss my own wife!
Sorry, that thought just jumped out at me.
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jul 3 2007, 08:27 PM)
I just highlighted your ignorance and your contradicting all with in a couple of sentences.........one hand you think ANYONE (that means ALL) has the RIGHT (as you love to put it)....to act on their OWN free will............then you go on to say just how gross it is and how un-natural it is...calling it gross is an insult to these people that you believe god has created...very touching!!!
I am only too glad i dont think like this...IF I state I am for peoples rights...I AM for ALL their rights...i will not lower my tone, by saying someones life and how they are born is GROSS..(you didnt mention how they were born..but in reality is it how they are born..gay..its their natural sexuality)........but you have
Now about them being born gay....is no different than you being born straight..........
Can you explain to me for a moment, and tell me what it is that makes you feel any attraction..for the opposite sex?? what is it...can you explain the science or anything behind it?? Or is your answer ----------> I just am that way?? I know for a fact you can't begin to explain it, all you know is...you are straight...its all you know of
You go on about re-production of sex...in order to produce kids......well see here's the thing - thats all man and wonen can do is re-produce??? what about those of us that share love for a partner????? without re-producing???
I show my love to my partner Gary through the same way...but why is it ok for me and not ok for a gay person to show his love to another human being??
Why does it disgust people (only th ignorant people)...what people do in private BEHIND CLOSED DOORS??? <--only sad lil annoying people are groosed out by things that is not their business...and these people need to lighten up and get a clue
I believe in KARMA..and hope that for every single last ignorant person that says gays are gross people...and are willing to put them down.............what goes around WILL come around...you could find yourselves having a kid thats gay..or someone close to you..anything...but it happens
And if you are going to brag how you are for peoples rights......dont bloody insult them while you are at it...you only make yourself look bad
I am only too glad i dont think like this...IF I state I am for peoples rights...I AM for ALL their rights...i will not lower my tone, by saying someones life and how they are born is GROSS..(you didnt mention how they were born..but in reality is it how they are born..gay..its their natural sexuality)........but you have
Now about them being born gay....is no different than you being born straight..........
Can you explain to me for a moment, and tell me what it is that makes you feel any attraction..for the opposite sex?? what is it...can you explain the science or anything behind it?? Or is your answer ----------> I just am that way??
I know for a fact you can't begin to explain it, all you know is...you are straight...its all you know ofYou go on about re-production of sex...in order to produce kids......well see here's the thing - thats all man and wonen can do is re-produce??? what about those of us that share love for a partner????? without re-producing???
I show my love to my partner Gary through the same way...but why is it ok for me and not ok for a gay person to show his love to another human being??
Why does it disgust people (only th ignorant people)...what people do in private BEHIND CLOSED DOORS??? <--only sad lil annoying people are groosed out by things that is not their business...and these people need to lighten up and get a clue
I believe in KARMA..and hope that for every single last ignorant person that says gays are gross people...and are willing to put them down.............what goes around WILL come around...you could find yourselves having a kid thats gay..or someone close to you..anything...but it happens
And if you are going to brag how you are for peoples rights......dont bloody insult them while you are at it...you only make yourself look bad
sorry, but i hold the rights to my opinion. did i condemn them for it? no. do i disagree with it? yes. im still capable of having healthy relationships with homosexuals.
get over it. i think its gross.
now, are you argueing that the human body was not designed for man on man action?
now, i dont know if their born gay or not. neither do you. i can acknowledge i only have the viewpoint of a straight man. now, the human body is designed for male/female intercourse. not man/man. thats common sense. now, since i think *spam filter* is gross and dont agree with it, how am i denying their right to live that way? im not. my opinon offends you. thats okay. it usually does. i can acknowledge though, that i have seen many gay couples ALOT happier than man/woman couples.
your arguement is that i apparently somewhere have stated that gay people dont have the right to be gay or be happy with another gay man. i never said that. i said i think that the thought of two guys doing "stuff" is nasty, and i tell any gay man that to their face. i bet you they dont get offended, because they feel the same way about man/female relations
QUOTE(KingKarma420 @ Jul 3 2007, 09:37 PM)
now, i dont know if their born gay or not. neither do you. *.
I happen to know ..I know I was born straight............BUT trouble is..i cant explain to you or anyone WHY I like men...I cant explain what it is that makes me feel attraction towards certain types of men..........just like you cant explain what it is that makes you feel attraction for different types of women...please dont say you do...cuz you cant
Re-production is just part of it....................you forgot the love sharing...how ones expersses their love for another <---why do people forget about that?
the body may not be built for it...........but what about the hormons that send messages to your mind?? how do you controll those??....................YOU CANT.....you can try till it nearly kills you...but the hormons is what causes us to feel -- ie - horny...attraction...love...happy....sad.........funny... <---all of those things is what makes us human...but not one of us can truly explain WHY these happen.........they just do
Being straight is not a persons choice..............I didnt wake up one fine morning and say -- hmmmmmmmm I think I'll start liking tall dark haired men...give that a whirl..lol no..it dont work that way you can chose what pertner...but you cant explain why you chose them,,you just felt you wanted them
If I were to tell you a joke - the usual -- man walks into a bar and the barman says -- blah blah ect ect...and you find it not funny...and other do.........can you explain as to WHY you felt it wernt funny??
its no different in trying to explain OTHER FEELINGS THAT COME NATURAL TO US
Look at the amount of gays that have taken their own lives...all out of fear........fear on how their family will react..cuz they are brought up in a society, that claims their ways are wrong..and according to the bible..they should die for it....................would you like to live like this? dont say it doesnt happen...it does and has happened
Look at the amount that lived in denial of their sexuality....tried so hard to hide who they are...tried to force themselves to love women..only to wind up living in hurt and then eventually hurting hemselves all the more......................WHY??? again - living in a rotten society where man says its wrong...FEAR
QUOTE(KingKarma420 @ Jul 3 2007, 09:37 PM)
now, are you argueing that the human body was not designed for man on man action?
I never said anything of the sort...good job you were just asking lol
its about more than producing kids...its about how one expresses their love for another...........animals only have sex to reproduce...we cant prove they feel attraction...heck I used to have a dog that would have shagged anything
QUOTE(KingKarma420 @ Jul 3 2007, 09:37 PM)
.
get over it. i think its gross.
get over it. i think its gross.
Dont tell me to get over anything...cuz I wont...if thats the case..then dont sit here and claim you are all for peoples rights abnd turn hell saying its gross get over it...<---very insulting and so contradicting
if you are for peoples rights truly...you wouldnt put anyones ways DOWN AS GROSS...what they do behind closed door is no ones business
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jul 3 2007, 03:52 PM)
Look at the amount that lived in denial of their sexuality....tried so hard to hide who they are...tried to force themselves to love women..only to wind up living in hurt and then eventually hurting hemselves all the more......................WHY??? again - living in a rotten society where man says its wrong...FEAR
I never said anything of the sort...good job you were just asking lol
its about more than producing kids...its about how one expresses their love for another...........animals only have sex to reproduce...we cant prove they feel attraction...heck I used to have a dog that would have shagged anything
I never said anything of the sort...good job you were just asking lol
its about more than producing kids...its about how one expresses their love for another...........animals only have sex to reproduce...we cant prove they feel attraction...heck I used to have a dog that would have shagged anything
Number one, you're a girl and may not be identifying with a purely male perspective, which is what Karma seems to be referring to.
Number two...I wonder if me and that dog are related....
Can we not turn this into a gay debate? There are like, a dozen threads on that. I was trying to make fun of Atheists here dammit!
Back on TOPIC!
QUOTE(eqgumby @ Jul 3 2007, 10:01 PM)
Number one, you're a girl and may not be identifying with a purely male perspective, which is what Karma seems to be referring to.
Number two...I wonder if me and that dog are related....
Can we not turn this into a gay debate? There are like, a dozen threads on that. I was trying to make fun of Atheists here dammit! Back on TOPIC!
Number two...I wonder if me and that dog are related....
Can we not turn this into a gay debate? There are like, a dozen threads on that. I was trying to make fun of Atheists here dammit!
Back on TOPIC!Im sorry if I have turned this into yet another gay debate..
King Karma...I am sorry if I have annoyed you...you asked someone to point how the bible protes one to kill another...I did..but I should have kept it short...
Sorry guys...carry on lol
PS..Eggy...maybe you and that old dog of mine do have something in comon lol...TMI LOL...my dog used to wimper when our cat clawed his face a lot for trying to shag the cat...the cat was also a TOM CAT...LMAO...he never learnt a lesson
lol, you say that gay people are born gay. i dont know if they are or not. but just as a gay may be born to like dudes, i was born to think its gross. yes, you must get over it, because you can never change how i feel. so just accept that some people think its gross. you like dudes. i think dudes are gross. now, wouldnt you say to me "i like guys, get over it?" of course you would. do i not deserve that right also?
now, i never claimed that gay people deserve persecution. ive never persecuted one. i have had gay friends, and i tell you, they respect my opinion as i respect theirs. they think guys kissing girls is gross. whats the difference?
everyones relationship with god is personal. now, my point is that, if gayness is wrong, leave the judgement to god.
opinion and judgement is different. although i acknowledge that opinions often comes out as judgemental, it isnt the purpose. judgement is enforcement.
im sorry, i still am unclear on your arguement against me.
now, i never claimed that gay people deserve persecution. ive never persecuted one. i have had gay friends, and i tell you, they respect my opinion as i respect theirs. they think guys kissing girls is gross. whats the difference?
everyones relationship with god is personal. now, my point is that, if gayness is wrong, leave the judgement to god.
opinion and judgement is different. although i acknowledge that opinions often comes out as judgemental, it isnt the purpose. judgement is enforcement.
im sorry, i still am unclear on your arguement against me.
Hmmm...with all of the other gay debates I think we really don't need another one...perhaps there is another aspect we can look into? please?
i agree, lets get back on topic. i disagree that the bible explicitely says to murder homosexuals. thats the point i was trying to make.
QUOTE(KingKarma420 @ Jul 3 2007, 10:08 PM)
lol, you say that gay people are born gay. i dont know if they are or not. but just as a gay may be born to like dudes, i was born to think its gross. yes, you must get over it, because you can never change how i feel. so just accept that some people think its gross. you like dudes. i think dudes are gross. now, wouldnt you say to me "i like guys, get over it?" of course you would. do i not deserve that right also?
now, i never claimed that gay people deserve persecution. ive never persecuted one. i have had gay friends, and i tell you, they respect my opinion as i respect theirs. they think guys kissing girls is gross. whats the difference?
everyones relationship with god is personal. now, my point is that, if gayness is wrong, leave the judgement to god.
opinion and judgement is different. although i acknowledge that opinions often comes out as judgemental, it isnt the purpose. judgement is enforcement.
im sorry, i still am unclear on your arguement against me.
now, i never claimed that gay people deserve persecution. ive never persecuted one. i have had gay friends, and i tell you, they respect my opinion as i respect theirs. they think guys kissing girls is gross. whats the difference?
everyones relationship with god is personal. now, my point is that, if gayness is wrong, leave the judgement to god.
opinion and judgement is different. although i acknowledge that opinions often comes out as judgemental, it isnt the purpose. judgement is enforcement.
im sorry, i still am unclear on your arguement against me.
Karma I said in a previous post I was sorry to you...sorry that I let it explode into a gays rights debate...i should have kept it short and to the point...
I dont wish to continue it...its off topic and disrespectful to eggys topic at hand...bashing religion
if you wish to continue this....pm me and ill be happy to..but I have appologised and thats it from me
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jul 3 2007, 09:11 PM)
Karma I said in a previous post I was sorry to you...sorry that I let it explode into a gays rights debate...i should have kept it short and to the point...
I dont wish to continue it...its off topic and disrespectful to eggys topic at hand...bashing religion
if you wish to continue this....pm me and ill be happy to..but I have appologised and thats it from me
I dont wish to continue it...its off topic and disrespectful to eggys topic at hand...bashing religion
if you wish to continue this....pm me and ill be happy to..but I have appologised and thats it from me
thats cool. we both agree that people have the right to live as they choose, so i suppose thats the important thing. but i dont want you to think that the bible says its righteous to literally go out and kill other people. this is not the case. i just want to be clear on this. now obviously i understand how you would come to this conclusion based on a glance at the passage. but i want it to be clear that the words of christ never encouraged murdering ANYONE.
QUOTE(KingKarma420 @ Jul 3 2007, 10:15 PM)
thats cool. we both agree that people have the right to live as they choose, so i suppose thats the important thing. but i dont want you to think that the bible says its righteous to literally go out and kill other people. this is not the case. i just want to be clear on this. now obviously i understand how you would come to this conclusion based on a glance at the passage. but i want it to be clear that the words of christ never encouraged murdering ANYONE.
I never said christ did say for people to murder anyone...but people do believe christ is GOD...therefore they believe that GOD said to kill those who are homosexual...its confusing...but I for one dont believe God hates anyone or wants them killed
the above written is just my opinion...and I already know you dont believe in murdering people for their sexuality
QUOTE(eqgumby @ Jul 3 2007, 10:46 AM)
What is most disturbing, is the notion that Science feels the need to denigrate one group to preserve the purity of their own. Reminds me of scientists being branded heretics and tortured during the Spanish Inquisition. I guess it's OK for secular scientists to repeat history, just not religious groups. A prime example of hypocrisy.
They're just not bashing religion but any other "theories" that are against evolution. Religion has a tough stance against evolution while pushing "theories" like creation and intelligent design.
Give me one reason why religion should be respected as equal to evolution and science just for the theories of life that they put out on their billboards.
I mean come on... Believers are taking creation stories from the same book that claims that the earth is flat, bats are really birds, that jews cannot eat meat because all the clean animals were killed, says snakes eat dust, says a flood covered the earth, that perhaps when a child is made in goats whatever the parent sees then at the moment is what the kid will have streaks on the coats, camels don't have split hoofs, says hares and conies eat cud, some birds have 4 feet, beetles really have 4 legs, that unicorns existed and that firey serpents existed.
Every single last one of those examples has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt through evidence and research as utterly false; yet the bible states them as facts. Then some of those claims simply have no evidence at all to back them up at all.
QUOTE(Child-Of-Israel @ Jul 3 2007, 10:55 AM)
When the group your against starts insulting you, you know you've won.
Really? That sounds a whole lot like creationists and id followers... Always claiming victory with nothing to stand on. I'm sorry but what evidence do you have that you've won because just the claim of it?
I mean... Right now you're a football team claiming the super bowl title even before the season starts.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
-Carl Sagan
QUOTE(eqgumby @ Jul 3 2007, 08:46 AM)
What is most disturbing, is the notion that Science feels the need to denigrate one group to preserve the purity of their own.
Hmm, like the people that come to your door and try to convert you to their religion.
QUOTE(Primeval @ Jul 3 2007, 09:34 PM)
Hmm, like the people that come to your door and try to convert you to their religion.
this shouldnt offend you so much.
now granted, if its an every 10 minute thing, then yeah, i understand.
just keep in mind that if someones trying to share The Word, which has obviously brought them happiness, dont scorn them to bad for trying to share it with you. at the same time, its their responsibiliiy to respect your right to live as you choose.
QUOTE(__Kratos__ @ Jul 3 2007, 04:30 PM)
They're just not bashing religion but any other "theories" that are against evolution. Religion has a tough stance against evolution while pushing "theories" like creation and intelligent design.
Agreed.
QUOTE(__Kratos__ @ Jul 3 2007, 04:30 PM)
Give me one reason why religion should be respected as equal to evolution and science just for the theories of life that they put out on their billboards.
I mean come on... Believers are taking creation stories from the same book that claims that the earth is flat, bats are really birds, that jews cannot eat meat because all the clean animals were killed, says snakes eat dust, says a flood covered the earth, that perhaps when a child is made in goats whatever the parent sees then at the moment is what the kid will have streaks on the coats, camels don't have split hoofs, says hares and conies eat cud, some birds have 4 feet, beetles really have 4 legs, that unicorns existed and that firey serpents existed.
I mean come on... Believers are taking creation stories from the same book that claims that the earth is flat, bats are really birds, that jews cannot eat meat because all the clean animals were killed, says snakes eat dust, says a flood covered the earth, that perhaps when a child is made in goats whatever the parent sees then at the moment is what the kid will have streaks on the coats, camels don't have split hoofs, says hares and conies eat cud, some birds have 4 feet, beetles really have 4 legs, that unicorns existed and that firey serpents existed.
Also agreed. If I believed in biblical creation, I would probably have a cool and snappy argument. (Conies...you must be British!
)QUOTE(__Kratos__ @ Jul 3 2007, 04:30 PM)
Every single last one of those examples has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt through evidence and research as utterly false; yet the bible states them as facts. Then some of those claims simply have no evidence at all to back them up at all.
Really? That sounds a whole lot like creationists and id followers... Always claiming victory with nothing to stand on. I'm sorry but what evidence do you have that you've won because just the claim of it?
I mean... Right now you're a football team claiming the super bowl title even before the season starts.
Really? That sounds a whole lot like creationists and id followers... Always claiming victory with nothing to stand on. I'm sorry but what evidence do you have that you've won because just the claim of it?
I mean... Right now you're a football team claiming the super bowl title even before the season starts.
I won't address your response to COI.
Any way...do you agree it's a little immature to get so riled up as these scientists seem to have done? I personally don't think it's even worth the time for these brilliant minds to be in one place, and spend any time dogging creationists. I say "Shut up and do some math! Prove a theory! Postulate one for Pete's sake! Do anything but debate frikkin unicorns! (pink or otherwise).
Its not offencive to open your door to someone that wants to share some news with you...as its their belief in doing so...all you have to do is say - sorry im not intrested OR dont open the door
Like I do when i know some sales rep is trying to sell me crap I dont need
Like I do when i know some sales rep is trying to sell me crap I dont need
QUOTE(KingKarma420 @ Jul 3 2007, 02:40 PM)
this shouldnt offend you so much.
now granted, if its an every 10 minute thing, then yeah, i understand.
just keep in mind that if someones trying to share The Word, which has obviously brought them happiness, dont scorn them to bad for trying to share it with you. at the same time, its their responsibiliiy to respect your right to live as you choose.
now granted, if its an every 10 minute thing, then yeah, i understand.
just keep in mind that if someones trying to share The Word, which has obviously brought them happiness, dont scorn them to bad for trying to share it with you. at the same time, its their responsibiliiy to respect your right to live as you choose.
It's offending and disgusting.
QUOTE(Primeval @ Jul 3 2007, 04:47 PM)
It's offending and disgusting.
QUOTE
QUOTE(Primeval @ Jul 3 2007, 09:34 PM)
Hmm, like the people that come to your door and try to convert you to their religion.
Hmm, like the people that come to your door and try to convert you to their religion.
Different thread!
QUOTE(eqgumby @ Jul 3 2007, 09:43 PM)
Agreed.
Also agreed. If I believed in biblical creation, I would probably have a cool and snappy argument. (Conies...you must be British! )
I won't address your response to COI.
Any way...do you agree it's a little immature to get so riled up as these scientists seem to have done? I personally don't think it's even worth the time for these brilliant minds to be in one place, and spend any time dogging creationists. I say "Shut up and do some math! Prove a theory! Postulate one for Pete's sake! Do anything but debate frikkin unicorns! (pink or otherwise).
Also agreed. If I believed in biblical creation, I would probably have a cool and snappy argument. (Conies...you must be British!
)I won't address your response to COI.
Any way...do you agree it's a little immature to get so riled up as these scientists seem to have done? I personally don't think it's even worth the time for these brilliant minds to be in one place, and spend any time dogging creationists. I say "Shut up and do some math! Prove a theory! Postulate one for Pete's sake! Do anything but debate frikkin unicorns! (pink or otherwise).
for all the stuff scientists spit out, their theories remain theories. make no mistake, a scientists point of view is just as biased as a creationists'. if you argue your opinion, your biases to it. its human nature.
besides, theres nothing in christianity that really directly contradicts science. the thing is, MOST scientists approach things with the mindset that 1) there is no god 2) therefore miracles arent possible 3) any abnormality in nature is natural, not unnatural.
im under the impression that if science can explain HOW something happened, god wasnt neccesary for it to occur. its like, science is trying to take credit from god or something.
i can acknowledge, though, that it seems silly to thin that the earth is only a few thousand years old.
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