Um....we wouldn't be Christians if we didn't follow Jesus now wouldn't we? That's the whole point, through Christ we reach the Father in Heaven.


Who said I listen to one over the other? I certainly didn't. However, as a Christian gentile, I am not, nor will I ever be, bound by the Law of the OT Jews. They mean nothing to me to be honest, however, I do see the significance of the Laws there.


Exactly Next time I need something like this explained I'll call Iams, he's a much better communicator than myself.

I dont understand how any body can be an athiest. I understand not believing in organized religion but athiestism is a form of Psychosis. You pretty much believe we are here to reproduce and die and their is nothing else. You die and it is as though you never existed, if you believe that then what do you have to live for???

Perhaps you would do well to read the definition of psychosis, since it seems to be a word freely dispensed by those that don't quite know what they're speaking of , when they make sarcastic remarks about that what they know nothing about.

Psychosis:a mental disorder characterized by symptoms, such as delusions or hallucinations, that indicate impaired contact with reality.

If you go by the definition of psychosis, and have any knowledge of case studies in the criminal justice system, you'll find numerous defendants that murdered their children, because god told them to, or the devil commanded it of them, are designated as psychotic! The delusion being they committed a felony (or capital offense, depending on the jurisdiction) , under the delusion of hearing deific voices ordering their behaviors to kill. This same pathology diagnosed as psychosis today, is revered in it's other form, as what is claimed to be the "inspired" words of god. Or, "Gods Breath" , the "holy" bible!

So before you call something psychosis, you might want to know that by definition it would then be the religious that qualify for that observation. Not those that actually can not not believe in something that does not exist. (Atheists).

Delusion: Believing their is no order in the Univerese that its all by chance.
If you believe we have no purpose and are accidents then you dont need society you just need to procreate and die. That to me is psychosis. Those who believe in an organized religion are also under a form of psychosis brought about by mind control by parents and Church/religions establishment. T

Delusion:
an act or instance of deluding.
2. the state of being deluded.
3. a false belief or opinion: delusions of grandeur.
4. Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion.

Please do not continue to derail this topic, posted by a young woman asking advice about how to tell her mother she's an Atheist, with angry nonsense and rhetoric that seeks to attack her personal opinion. You are taking this off topic, and you are attempting to derail this thread into an inflammatory exchange. That's not fair to the poster, and it makes for a very bad impression of yourself, when you throw hateful terminology that isn't even an accurate definition of the words, psychosis and delusion. Making it appear as if your own agenda, is the delusion you need someone to get angry at.

Stop! Please.

The whole idea of christianity is just idiotic, its a huge example of how stubborness and uninformed guesses and beliefs can survive for too long without undergoing change. creation....why not say that god is the cause of evolution? that science gives us a better way to appreciate our existence and its complexities, that we know beauty? all i see is a system of heaven and hell created by humans that wanted to drop crime rates in medieval times...

if a god figure exists, we must be either pretty pathetic, a mistake, or not alone.
why would an incomprehensible amount of space be used on things like us? is it because we CAN question what made us? are we the success of a huge experiment or just one of the subjects?

things like religion rely on faith only because of the lack of foundation and knowledge to think otherwise, thats not worth using your life for. support religion as a bystander, watching and noticing how coming together can make our lives more enjoyable.

my advice? don't give yourself a label, surround youself with people who are willing to dicuss possibilities and appreciate a possible higher force at work, and definitley consider whether the support of people who are hard-headed "believers" is worth the amount of time you have on earth.

its doubtful that things will change, but at least individuals can

now go tell your mom

mDarkPoet, no one can answer this question but you. None of us know your mother and how angry she may become. The things you believe in today may be long forgotten 6 months from now. It's admirable that you want to be honest, since this is something very important to her, although you are going through the teenage years, which are difficult enough to begin with, without opening this particular can of worms.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

Just say...Hiya mom guess what I'm Atheist......then after she has regained conscious from fainting make her a drink and ask her how she is feeling.

Make it a double! Though being very christian I doubt she drinks. You could always take her to dinner. Public places usually preclude a scene. I should say hopefully would preclude a scene.

All the sudden there goes this girl, flying across the room. And in the distance, behind table 3 and the overturned plates of lovely dinners, is heard the loud question: "YOU'RE A WHAT!?"

People with religion don't drink!?!?!....hahahahahahahahahaha...the religious around here must be reeeaaaal loose about religion. They have some of the best parties!!!

edit: Don't tell Irish about that...

I agree with this. If you think she will react badly, then wait until you are out on your own to do it. I started to deconvert when I was 15. I said nothing until I was out on my own at 19 about any of it. I was raised very strict Seventh Day Adventist and the reaction would have been extremely bad.

I'm suprised nobody's asked about the mother

If your mother display any signs of zealotry or fanaticism, I'd keep quiet awhile.

Atheists that I've known would say that the best thing is that you are free to live your life as you wish. The meaning of life is what you make it. And if this is the only shot you've got at existence, it makes on sense to waste it doing anything other than what makes you and your loved ones happy.

I would suggest going to a site like IIDB, which an atheist forum to learn more about their actual views. Also some research into atheistic thinking on Google.

lolocaust

why is it so hard for you to believe that someone can be an atheist.

to be an atheist all you have to do is have an understanding of this planet as far as science can reveal it thus far.

how is that hard

I find it hard to understand how someone can believe in something with absolutely no proof apart from a whole bunch of people having faith that its there

Which one struggles to make sense here?

you use the word delusion... a delusion is something that is commonly accepted by people (god) even though indisputable evidence stares them straight in the face? a delusion is usually a symptom of a mental disorder....does the number of people who adopt this delusion have any determining factor on the truth of this delusion? no! there is no sanity in numbers! your statement makes little sense.

My mother is psychotic I just hate lying, I probably won't tell her, I like living a relatively comfortable life and when my mother explodes my happy place is gone. So you know? Perhaps I could deal with lying or find ways to avoid lying I have no clue.

Good girl! Smart girl! Protect your happy place! You need it.

Also you ARE young, your views may change next week.... enjoy your comfortable life.

First, off are you sure you are atheist. Atheism is basically a lack of any belief correct?
Second, not believing in something is not the same as rejecting possibility.
Third, Christianity is a possibility, would you agree? Logically this can be explained in the universal sense of being.
Fourth, I think if you ask her to listen to you, and if you clearly and visually explain how anything is possible and what that really means, then hopefully you two would agree that you both are in it together regardless of any temporal differences. And hopefully that could strengthen the bond your two existenses share.

You could then get into deeper issues of the harm that can be manifested from accepting certain possibilities into your reality.


If that fails(and most likely it will), just ignore religous differences and focus on other aspects of eachother not as difficult for some people to cope with.

i would just tell her and get it over with...

in a way of course that is not too traumatizing.


personally, i don't want to believe in god, i only want to believe in me.

what is so wrong with that?
I stand firmly on this path i henceforth hath created for myself.
In the wake of this change of paths i remain a heretic.

...it is a decision i was proud to make...

not correct

its the belief in the fact that there is NO god or supernatural being behind that of the physical world.

Dont tell her anytning. Just bottle it up until you can bear it no more then one day explode.

I think the biggest flaw of atheism then seems that an atheist claims to reject the possibility of gods or a god existing. So it's safe to say that Atheism requires rejecting a possiblity. And logically if you deny or reject a possibility that immediately denys the concept of infinity. Now if infinity is not a true state of universal reality, then we would be forced into a finite state of reality. And there is no possible theory for motion existing in a finite state. While it seems some logic is catagorically underestimated as less of a theory than science. In reality no science has ever proven anything %100. Instead it provides favorable odds on what the saturation of probabilities for a certain possibility would be. So all science is, is successfully predicted theory. Logically you can prove the comprehension and existence of everything. Everything meaning understanding the concept of infinity.

Do you understand string theory. It is close to making sense but I believe you have to factor the zero dimension into the other 10 dimensions. When you understand what infinity really means I think it would be ignorant to reject the possibility of infinity. In case you aren't up to date on the dimensions of existence required for motion to occur (in my opinion) lets go through them in detail.

Zero dimension – the concept of nothing, or nothingness.
Immediately when you become aware of the very concept of nothing it is projected into the 1st dimension. This dimension can not exist without the 1st dimension and no other dimension can exist without the zero dimension. So basically this is a living contradiction and is required for a state of being to exist.

1st dimension – the concept of being something, or the notion of conceiving a thought.
You can’t get anymore simple or anymore complex than a singular thought or possibility. The 1st dimension only exists as lack of nothingness.

2nd dimension - the concept of locational pattern, or x and y on a grid.
Within the second dimension beingness can be compared to the difference of multiple things existing or being within the 1st dimension.

3rd dimension – the concept of space, width, height, and depth.
This is basically an expansion of the 2nd dimension by folding itself across every existing bit of itself.

4th dimension – the concept of time.
Time is duration of differences across all dimensions. The 4th dimension to me is the strongest glue that holds together all possibilities. Time allows for our level of consciousness to understand that we exist. It also allows for infinity to really exist.

For something to truly be infinite, that means it has obtained, no beginning, and no ending, it’s the be all end all of everything ness. In order to obtain that state of everything it must also not exist. Meaning nothing is a concept therefore to be everything you would need the attributes of everything including “nothingness”.

The only way this can be obtained is structured in the 4th dimension. Something can exist in one segment of time, and not exist in another. So when looking at time from the fifth dimension you would see that something both existing and not existing simultaneously.

5th dimension – the concept of the whole sum of previous dimensions collapsed to a single point. Like the 3rd dimension does, here we can fold time across all of it’s possible units to create a singularity.

6th dimension – the concept of probability.
We are constantly traveling through the 6th dimension from one path of probability to another determined by our position and heading in the fifth dimension.

7th dimension – the concept of possibility.
Possibility comes from the comparing of units of probability. For example, something only becomes possible if it has the probability to do so.

8th dimension – the concept of a possible infinity.
Like before we bend every possible probability onto itself and create a viewable version of an infinity.

9th dimension – The concept of the whole sum of infinity units.
Now we combine all possible probabilities from all units of infinity into a single point. This is now actually physically smaller than the smallest particle you can imagine.

10th dimension – the concept of measuring all of the previous dimensions.
This serves sort of as a membrane that holds everything together. Could almost be considered to be, “the big picture”

11th dimension – the concept of connecting dual contradictions.
The 11th dimension is similar to time in the way it mends the 10th and zero dimensions together allowing for motion to exist amongst infinity. And allowing nothing to co exist with everything. Think of the smallest possible point and the largest possible opening. Or imagine a snake eating its tail. The 11th dimension allows for these two incompatible concepts to fold onto eachother creating a loop which everything else exists on being propelled along the loop by contradictional forces.

Zombie, the bible was written for the believer, and not for the non-believer. You cannot even begin to interpret the bible's message if you are a non-believer, believe you me my friend. When I was an atheist I read the bible and received a completely different message. Now that I am a believer I receive something completely different...it's all in the mindset, and I can tell you, being an ex-atheist that the bible is meant to trick the non-believer when they read it, and to make perfect sense to the believer when they read it.

If you didn't formulate all that in your own little brain....then you need to provide a source...otherwise it is plagerism and/or copyright infringement....

....besides being a lot of bull....

You could try showing her your initial post on this thread, & if she gets angry try saying to her...'call yourself a christian' If she were a true christian she would let you make up your own mind.

lol, im sure too_animalistic wrote that....

its not a load of bull though. they all make sense if you think about it, and im sure someone with much more experience than us wrote it.
the easiest ones to understand are the 2nd 3rd and 4th dimensions

Say, "Mom, I'm an atheist," then run very, very fast.

Or...maybe you could pray about it first? Heh, just kidding. That wouldn't work in this case.

Silliness aside (sorry, I'm a little punch-drunk from too much UM), I agree with other posters that you are very young. You may not always decide to be an atheist--you may find faith in something some day. Until that time, why not leave your options open? You can tell your mother that you are exploring other possibilities--that you haven't totally discounted Christianity, but you are questioning belief in general. Try to avoid the "A" word for as long as possible.

Now, being a Christian myself, I know that we come in different flavors. You have the Sometimes-Chrisitian, the Average Joe Christian, the More-Than-Average Joe Christian, and then the Fundamentalist Christian. Those Fundamentalist Christians sometimes can be tough buggars. (Remember the uber-fanatic mom in Carrie?) Bless their hearts--they mean well, they are just hung up on the little things and forget to look at the big picture sometimes.

What slot does your mom fall into? It will make a difference to how much you can tell her. (If she even remotely resembles the mom in Carrie, don't tell her.)

When you are 18--you can spill the beans. Just be prepared to be on your own!

Of course, what was i thinking. Silly me.
I like how christians have a well devised escape route to all the embarrassing text in the bible. Its a horrible book ok. get over it.
and if its not interpreted in the way that benefits them, im either not a believer, or interpret it wrong or just made to feel an inferior christitan, just one of the many reasons i am not a christian anymore.
How can so many christians get so many different meanings from the SAME version of the bible, i mean its written in english, this is text of god? the intelligent creator?? you think he could have made the book a little more clear cut for us dont you.


lol i couldn't have said it better

well i probably could have but kudos anyway.

I deleted some humourous advice from here. It was meant to provide a light moment to a serious problem, but may not have seemed appropriate to all.

The one thing none of us really knows,as well as you do, is the full nature of your mother. The words you use to describe her are strong, clear and contradictory. I bet she is much more complex than these words show.

It is important that before you do anything, you have a clear idea in your head of just what you are and why you feel this way. Are you open to change in any way at all? Do you simply not have an active belief in god, or do you have a strong personal disbelief in the very idea of such a thing, as well as a personal dislike of the idea?

The reason for your reluctance to talk to your mother should also be taken into account. If you fear her reaction may be angry and even physical, that is one thing. If the worst you face is personal disappointment /disillusionment with you, on her part, then that may be a cost you have to bear to allow an honest relationship.

Your age and physical/emotional dependence on your mother should also be considered.

I believe that all humans are entitled to their beliefs, as long as they do not physically effect the views/lives of others The problem with a family, or other dependent relationship, is that the actions flowing from one member's beliefs almost always effect the lives and activities of other members. Sometimes dependent members cannot act on their beliefs, until they can choose/are capable, to live independently of the group/family.

Well, given what you've said about your mother, stay quiet. Preserve your happy place.

Hi mDarkPoet,
Absolutely not. Do not tell your mother. Is she making you go with her to church or what? Do you just not want to go to church anymore? Or what? What's the big deal if your not going to church with her. If you are going with her and you want to stop that activity badly enough go ahead. Blow up the whole house. If she gets as angry as you say she does you may really step into it. Knowing her as well as you do, you have to ask yourself how would she really react to this news. Will she say its ok, than punish you in other ways. Will she snip and snipe at you about religion every chance she gets morning, noon, and night to try to get you to change your mind. That doesnt sound like too much fun to me. All in all................only you know your mom and what she will do. Being truthful with my mom would have turned into years of torture. I am not a MOM TELLER.
Blessings
Budhabee

It shouldn't be a big deal. Your parents shouldn't care about you religion (or lack of). If you are mature enough to actually question and debate what your parents have taught you over the course of your life, then your mature enough to choose your own religion or lack of one.

Through your life you will undergo many changes, both physical and mental.
If you lead a sheltered life, you may die as an atheist. If you do not, you will explore things other than atheism or Christianity, and possibly find that neither is correct.
By the time you've added a decade, you will change. This is a certainty. Regardless of what youth may think, you know nothing, as with most all of us; you just have yet to discover that you know nothing. Those of us who are older, depending on maturity levels, have already found that out. Some people find out only at the point of death that they knew nothing.
At the point of death, then you will know.
Until that time, make no concrete statements about what you believe. Make 'I think' statements, but until you die, you cannot make certain statements about what is after death.
That, my friend, is a guarantee. Any other opinion is nothing more than an opinion.
When you die, you will find at least a part of truth; if you are lucky (or unlucky) enough to somehow continue to live (such as being brought back via medical or emergency attention), it is very likely you will be a changed person. If you remember what happened after death and bring that memory back with you, you will find that death is no longer frightening; even without the memory, death is no longer frightening. Anyone who claims that death doesn't frighten them has either died, or is a liar. Some people no longer care to live, but that doesn't mean they aren't afraid of death, it means they have accepted it as an alternative to life.
Most God based organized religions promise punishment. If one really reads into it what was meant, it is that you cannot die, nor can you separate yourself from an omniscient being, or creator. Assuming that, then it is stated you are allowed the choice. What's left out of all of it is the simple fact that you cannot separate yourself from omniscience, nor can it separate from you.
Like it or not, if you believe in God, you're stuck with it.
If you don't believe in God, when you die, you'll still be stuck with it.
So, my suggestion is that you wait until your beliefs have become at least partially firm, say 30 or 40 years. Else, if you're convinced, die for a while and see if you're still convinced.

M. Moe--can I borrow your rose colored glasses for a while?

"Shouldn'ts" doesn't represent the facts. The REALITY is that the poster's mother, according to her, is a very committed Christian. I know Christians, and this will probably be a big deal to her. How big a deal depends on her mother's belief system.



You must not have children--because, as a parent, you would understand that innately you want them to embrace your own belief system--no matter how open minded you think you are. (At least most parents I know.)

Maybe her mother shouldn't care that much--but the reality is, she WILL. To what degree, only the poster knows.

And our poster will have to live with the consequences at an age where she is unable to support herself. It is also an age where most individuals need parental guidance and emotional support. Perhaps there are other family members, whom she trusts, that she could confide in. Perhaps there is a guidance counselor she could confide in. I think some careful thinking needs to be done before she just spills the beans.

You must not have children--because, as a parent, you would understand that innately you want them to embrace your own belief system--no matter how open minded you think you are. (At least most parents I know.)
[/quote]



Yes but it's a fine line between wanting your child to adopt your opinions and forcefully imposing it on them(like in some Middle eastern countries).
Indoctrination,conditioning,emotional blackmail etc.. is unhealthy and irresponsible-what's so wrong with people arriving at their own conclusions instead of mindlessly acqueising to group think?
If this situatiuon were reversed and a relgious person wanted to tell their staunch atheist parents their beleifs,then I fear the advice from many religious folk on this board would be different.
Society and family affording people the luxury of arriving at their own beleifs is to be applauded and forcefully imposed religious (or atheist) indoctrination belongs back in the dark ages(or some extremist islamic state).

No, I am not a parent (er. atleast not that I'm aware of, a better question is if I am a responable parent ). My point was, obviously the poster is mature and capable enough to choose their own religion. Whether the parent likes it or not, I say come clean about it. No matter what.

Unless "no matter what" leaves her no place to live or in a living hell. You've obviously been sheltered and well taken care of, but all parents are not like that.

If you can't even admit this to your mother, then how could you truly admit to yourself that you're an atheist? It takes a lot of nerve to be an atheist. One simply cannot say, "I'm an atheist," and that's that. There are consequences, as you begin to know. And your mother is not even part of the filling in the cake... But hold on tightly to that belief because you have a very bumpy road ahead. In the end, it doesn't matter what we brand ourselves; we all have a bumpy road ahead of us all. And that's a guarantee, especially if you're on this website, interested in your so-called "higher state of lifestyle." It just sounds to me that you have a lot of work to do, personal work. And no doubt, you will have ample of opportunities.

The thing is: If a person feel feverish about something, with fervor and gusto, other people's feelings always come second, regardless. For example, marrying someone you really really really love, even though the important people in your life are against it. That marriage will go on, unless one is a wimp, to begin with.

Karl...I didn't say it was RIGHT...I just said it was the way it is.

I don't think parents should "force" anything on their children. But those are my personal beliefs, and they might not be the beliefs of the poster's mother. Do you really want the poster to be out of a home at the age of 14 because she stood up for her beliefs? It's commendable that she may want to take a stand for her convictions, but she needs to be aware of the possible consequences--they might be severe and something she is not ready to handle.

Now, that's one for the atheists. Congratulations. I have more respect for teenage gays who were kicked out of the house for following their desires -- that shows PRIDE and GUTS.

Oh gee, I'm an atheist, and "I like living a relatively comfortable life..."

No, not really. I was saying they should suck it up and take whatever their parents dish out. I guesse it just matters how badly they want to be an atheist, doesn't it?

I think it could be like being gay and coming out. No matter how much you prepare you can't assume what someones reaction is going to be.

the best advice I've ever gotten ( because I'm such a procrastinator) is this - If your waiting to feel better about something in order to do it , you'll never do it.

grab your bootstraps and tell her ( unless of course you may find yourself say homeless.) have a plan to care for yourself .