Im so curious about this.. I recently saw a movie about Georges Ivanovich Gurdjieff "Meetings With Remarkable Men" / "The Origin of Esoteric Knowledge"
what was that Gurdjieff really saw in the Pre-sand Egypt??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._I._Gurdjieff - (for those who don't know about him)

You mean he was around at the time of the dinos?

uhhmm it was a serious question.. however... after he saw a Pre-sand Map of Egypt from what I've understand it his hole perspective changed.
Im surprise no more replys cus I really want to know what he saw & what was the ancient secret society (pre egypt) he got his learning.

Sorry you've lost me. What do you mean by 'pre-sand egypt' ?

before Egypt was covered with sand many thousands years ago.. his uncle had a MAP of old ancient Egypt.. that astonished Gurdjieff..

So what was there before the sand. i always thought that deserts were ancient sea beds.

No, Egypt wasn't always desert.
Several thousand years ago (at the close of the last Ice Age), most of North Africa was a more verdant place. I don't think there's a shred of evidence to suggest there was an advanced, map-making civilisation at the time, though.
And I'm not touching the whole 'secret society' angle -- it's not that big a mystical leap to say "the past was different from now."

--Jaylemurph

Just amazing that he could identify Egypt at that point. Most of what is now the Aegean and eastern Mediterranean were dry land at the time... It is questionable, even if somebody had made a map (very doubtful), unless it said Ancient Egypt, had the sites of the future Pyramids marked or used the Greenwich coordinate system, it would be nearly impossible to identify what the map shows. Even the Nile had a different bed at the time.

Im interested about the secret society hence it's said they had knowlegde on higher levels.. spirtitual 4th dimension = eternety

Do a Google search on pre-sand Egypt and you’ll get all kinds of stuff. Apparently it has something to with the Sphinx.

I heard about it. Satellites scans over Egypt show us that the Nile ran out the west coast of Africa and the land was fetile at the time.

My guess is a 'Pole Shift' and what secret society?

sorry i mixed them (secret society) but quoting from Swedish website about gurdjieff his knowlegde about 4level is from early Egypt, from before enviroment changes that made sand take over the land of Egypt. However from his Biography movie.. he reads from a ancient Armenian Book about a old school called "sarmoun" being the most ancient of them dating from early as 2500b.c from babylonia. called "Sarmoun Brotherhood"

This is a simulated map of Pre-Sand egypt, but there must be something else Gurdjieff saw, he went many sleepless nights wondering about it.

You know, Gurdjieff was never above stepping on people's corns.
Maybe you're just thinking too much about this and not his actual message.

--Jaylemurph

maybe you're right ... thanks anyway for replys..

My understanding is that the area around Lake Chad has bounced back and forth between desert and forest several times since humans began recording their experiences in petroglyphs. Maybe the map showed a specific area on the edge of the desert (?).

"The more a man understands what he is doing, the greater will be the results of his efforts." ...a man must satisfy himself of the truth of what he is told. And until he is satisfied he must do nothing." - G. I. Gurdjieff

I thought that was pretty cool.

Probably not... even in Roman times the estuary of Alexandria was way farther north. That is a map that shows a green Egypt as it is now. Sorry, but no.

My guess is deforestation and over-farming. That is usually the rule of thumb with monument and large city building civilizations.....



Lapiche

jaylemurph is correct Egypt was not always coverd by sand, but how far back are you talking about the only angle i can see for a secret society would be atlantis and i really hope thats not what your talking about here..?

yes i am inclined to that thought... I thinking what if Gurdjieff saw map of atlantis..

If Gurdjieff saw a map of Atlantis, the map would most likely be Britain or Antarctica. Since such a place is said to be surrounded by water. Those I believe would be the two most likely places. However on the subject of a forestry Egypt I think that to be quite interesting but the map shows Arabia as being a desert. If Egypt was a green leaf area then wouldn't Saudi Arabia be too?

The simplest way to understand the significance of Gurdjieff and the pre-sand map of Egypt is that it must have convinced him of the much more ancient age of some of the structures. It is believed that one structure he saw on the map was the Sphinx. Gurdjieff thought that the Sphinx was created by remnants of Atlantis which date he gave to its fall as between 8,000 and 10,000 years ago. Recently as we know the age of the Sphinx has indeed been pushed back to a time when there was a lot more precipitation ie. pre-sand Egypt.

Gurdjieff definitely believed in the fall of an Atlantis...in Witness, by J.G. Bennett writes...

He went on to the caves at Lascaux. The long drive tired him very much, and his legs were beginning to swell ominously. But he insisted on going down into the caves. As he stood looking at the paintings, he seemed completely to belong there. He explained various symbols, and especially the strange composite animal, which he said was, like the Sphinx, the "emblem" of an esoteric society. I said: "Symbol?" He rejected the correction. "No. Emblem. At that time there were societies with special knowledge, and each society had an emblem by which the members recognized each other. Same way as we have." He said that the deer were the totems of individual people. By the number of points on the antlers you could know the degree of attainment of the man they represented. He bought pictures for everyone. A special album was given to Iovanna Lloyd Wright with injunctions to give it to her father and "tell him that such place exist."

but if you go to, http://www.gurdjieff-legacy.org/40articles/lascaux.htm you will see what Bennett left out of the story...

Hello,
A possible hint for you -- look up "nabta playa".
-cuchama

Hi there....welcome to the forum...

Having got a bit involved in the 'Sphinx' thread....I had started to wonder....how deep is the sand around
the Sphinx and Pyramids...what would it all look like without the sand? How much more is there under there
that we can't see...and hasn't been visible for thousands of years? Just dotting around the internet for any
info....I came across a site that was interesting....

sahara

The picture of 1994 radar images of an ancient river channel under the sahara is good.

If only we could see the pre-sand map that Gurjieff saw, eh?




And welcome to you too....

Thanks for throwing 'nabta playa' into the mix....I've never heard of it before...facinating!

Just to be helpful...here's a site about it for anyone who's interested.....

nabtaplaya


......................................................................

And now for a lttle bit of SPECULATION.....as I was looking at the sites about the sahara desert...a
thought struck me....

If there was such a place as 'Atlantis' or something very similar...what if it's location was/is
North Africa? What if the pyramids/Sphinx was part of 'Atlantis'?

'Atlantis'.....flood......water recedes.....sand.....desert......North Africa.....'Atlantis' is
back!.....but buried....?

Anyone else ever thought this......?

...please don't turn this into /another/ Atlantis thread -- there a dozens of them already!

--Jaylemurph

I'd really like to see a green Egypt.. that would be badass.

Aren't you curious what else might be below the sand in the pyramid/sphinx area?

You'll have to go back about 10000 years for that one. Get the feeling it ain't going to happen.

Maybe if they could market the 'Sands of Egypt' commercially... eg... to form pretty beaches around the world... or as building materials...

I'd love to have a house made of bricks..and mortar...using the sands of Egypt... it would be way cool!!!! ... or to cover those annoying pebble beaches with some fine Egyptian sand... or buy Egyptian sand for your childs' sand pit ... what a status symbol!!!...

How long do you think it would take??? the proceeds could cover fund further excavations restorations...!!!! ...

What a brilliant idea.....not to say a tad cunning....I approve!

Someone should put a business plan forward to the Egyptian government.......

Oh. Now I'm interested. <333

I heard that there's a port under Egypt. I read it on a website. But I've lost the link too. (Plus that was years ago.)

There is part of Alexandria under the water in Eygpt.

Oh cool.

My fascination with Ancient Egypt is back. ^__^

The idea of sand is nice but you're talking like a dreamer with creativity... something the authorities lack.

which auhorities ?

Could anyone pull up more information as the Original Post? I tried to find more information on the man in question and his relation to ancient sand Egypt, etc. but was fairly unsuccessful.

-Madcap

Hi there....I typed gurdjieff egypt for a search.....
there's quite a lot of stuff....haven't looked at it all....picked this one out more or less at random....

Gurdjieff

Hope this helps......maybe some points for discussion?..........