I'm curious what some of the Christians and Muslims on the board would have to say about this. When I was in Islam and struggling with accepting some of the things in the Qu'ran I used to meet Muslims who would say "Don't focus on that so much just take what you like from it."

I used to get annoyed by thi s response because I felt that if you REALLY believed that this Holy book was God's word and you really believed that the big kahunah wrote it, man I wouldn't want to mess with any of it.

Fire and brimstone? The wrath of an angry God? Well heck I'd be doing everything that was written.

Now I'm not saying that people are supposed to be perfect and have to follow everything but I get bothered by people who try to change up the scripture to be more accommodating to their worldly desires.

For example, honor the sabbath. If you truly believe that God is real then why do people work on Sunday? When I worked for the Salvation Army I really admired them because even though Thrift stores could get a lot of business on Sunday, they wouldn't open.

When I see a Christian trying to bend the reed so that it suits their life better, in my mind they are a hypocrite. The very action of you trying to change it shows that you don't really really deep down inside believe in God because otherwise you'd do what the damn book says.


What say you?

while I can't answer for the religious contradiction of what one text says and what people choose to uphold or ignore , it really is good advice for people to take what they need and leave the rest. if God chose to write a book surely it would be heaps better than any script claiming to be God inspired. heck I can write one and it be just as valid and of course just like those texts my own personal opinion would go into it.

If we followed 'Gods' word about no working on Sundays , plenty of people would die from lack of services ( hospitals, EMS , fire dept.......) which would make God pretty stupid if in fact he had anything to do with the bible since being all knowing he couldn't see how such a statement would be detrimental down the line.

Just a bit more showing God didn't write the bible ( or 10 commandments )

14 But the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, or your son or your daughter, or your male or female slave, or your ox or your donkey, or any of your livestock, or the resident alien in your towns, so that your male and female slave may rest as well as you.

It's like the new Starwars films..deep down you know they're CRAP- that's the overall true 'truth'.
But you take what you want from them and try and remember how great the originals were.

Since the week starts on Sunday, however, that would make Saturday the Sabbath. *shrugs*
I agree with you, True! Should one choose to adopt a faith, he/she should accept it in its entirety.



Why should faith inspired by a book be any different?

Of course the danger here is developing an overly legalistic view of things. I could think of many situations where following the letter of the law would cause more problems then not. If your job requires you to work on Sundays and, by refusing to work on Sundays, you would lose your job and fall into financial ruin, by all means work on Sunday.

Bible says money is not that important so your answer goes against scripture.

I quoted you LT because you are the only one to post the commandment



If it is against the 10 commandments......why do Priests (the very ones that should be following the Bible to the letter) work on the day that the Bible says not to?

HEY ZANDORE!!!!!


That made me laugh out loud for real

Fuel for thought.

Lets see how many fill it up.

Financial ruin to the point where you are on the street begging.
If you are working on Sundays to afford to buy a new giant SUV, you've got a problem.

You mean like JESUS was? Sorry but I think you are wrong there. This is what I mean. You are trying to logically explain something that is based on a theory that goes against logic in the first place.

You can't have it both ways. Its doesn't say "Thou shalt not work on the sabbath unless you need the money for rent?"

Did Jesus heal on the Sabbath?

Which one of you who has a sheep, if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not take hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to good on the Sabbath.

If you want to get into a scripture fight, I can do that too.

First let me say that the word used in that passage in exodus means work of the field. So if your a farmer or dairy person or something of that sort than you would take the Sabbath off. Secondly, the Sabbath isn't really on Sunday it's on Saturday. Also, I think God would make an exception for someone who is like a police officer, doctor, paramedic, or any other public service worker. The country still has to run and Christians don't have the right to force everyone to stop working on that day because not everyone believes in that. Also, according to the pharisees Jesus broke the Sabbath many times when he healed and I think when (as Something Like Laughter quoted) Christ said "Which one of you who has a sheep, if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not take hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to good on the Sabbath." that he means that the Sabbath doesn't really matter if your doing it religiously like the Pharisees do. But the significance of the Sabbath (holding a day for God) is what's important. If you go out every Sunday and help people then you have honored the Sabbath. If you go out and read to blind children on a Sunday than you have honored the Sabbath. I think honoring the Sabbath day is more so for significance and personal development than for religious reasons.

Like I said, the fact that you use worldly answers to argue the book supposedly written by God, just proves to me that you really don't believe that the book is really really written by this awe inspiring HUGE GOD of the universe that created all.

It shows that the book has the hand of man all over it and that you see it as written by men for men.

Because if you felt that it was GOD's voice speaking then you'd listen not argue.

In this it negates the whole God concept in the first place. It the Bible or Qu'ran are really man theories, then they are subject to flaw and therefor can not represent GOD>

I don't think the Bible is God's voice speaking. There's nothing in the Bible that would suggest that it is.

So then why do you try to get people to follow it?

I don't get people to try and follow the Bible, I get them to try and follow God. There are many people (like myself) who believed in God and Christ before believing in the Bible. While I do believe the teachings of the Bible are true, I don't not follow the Bible itself as if it were some deity. There's nothing Biblical about the Bible being the infallible inerrant word of God. That is a moniker that man had placed on the book.

Well if the Bible is flawed and you don't follow it then it pretty much negates Christ's sacrifice no? Because if the bible is just a story then where is the salvation coming from?

Well for starters I didn't say it was a story. Just because I don't follow it doesn't mean it's not true. And even the Bible isn't true it wouldn't negate the sacrifice of Christ because I believed before the Bible. The Bible did not save me, it did not lead me to faith, it does not sustain my faith. Look at Faith like a plant, the Father planted the seed in my heart and the Spirit watered it into growth. Christ is would be like the Sun in sustaining the Life of that faith. The Bible is merely a tool to help in the cultivation of that Faith. A pruning shear, if you will, for the trimming and fine tuning of my faith. I see faith like a highway, and I'm in a car on this highway. I didn't get on the path because of the Bible, I got on it by meeting God. While on this highway I follow Christ to the destination which is the Father. However, Christ's car in front of me isn't the only car on the road, and in case I loose sight of Christ's car I have the Bible which is like a GPS unit that will always lead me back to Christ's car so that I am not lost while on the highway. The second question in your post implies that your saying that Salvation comes from the Bible, and if not the Bible than from what? But we are not saved by the Bible, we shouldn't be following the Bible, but God. I believe that when one decides to follow God that God gives them the Spirit and the Spirit within them discerns what is correct for them. Your questions are based on the Bible being Salvation, but the Bible isn't Salvation, it's just a tool to help with Salvation.

Not at all


I'm saying something quite clear. I'm saying the BIBLE is NOT SIZZLER you don't get to pick and choose what the bible says.

Either you are accepting that this is the word of God or NOT. There's no middle ground to me.

ONLY the bible confirms Christ's sacrifice. The Qu'ran and the Torah both deny that he is the messiah.

So where are you getting your Christ theory from if not the bible? If you believe the bible is the WORD of GOD then you need to follow ALL OF IT

Not just what you feel like following.

You say you have your own relationship with God. That looks like bargaining in my book. Two steps away from the final death of God belief and acceptance that its just a story.

There isn't Biblical evdience to support that the Bible is the Word of God. There isn't anything that would even imply it. The Bible wasn't compiled at the time the books of it were written and therefore they could not have written about the Bible.



I got it from God, he's a nice guy you should meet him.



I don't believe it is, that is heresy, and I don't follow any of it. I follow God.


Good thing I don't go by your book. I do have a personal relationship with God and its quite wonderful. I don't need any book or person to tell me about God, if I need to know I'll ask him, and he'll answer. I think your inquiry is based on the fact that you don't believe in God, and as a result you don't believe I can know him personally as is (to you) he doesn't exist. However, I have met God, I talk with him regularly, he talks back, and NO I'm not insane

John 1:1 (KJV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

But you are right....it was written in it's entirely by man.....for man

John 1:1 is speaking about Christ (The Word) coming in the Flesh (John 1:14). Also, that verse does not mention the Bible. The Bible isn't God, and it hasnt always been around. That verse CANNOT be speaking of the Bible. The only people who quote that as "proof" that the Bible is the Word of God are ignorant people who dont' understand context and listen a tad bit too much to their pastors opinions. It was written by man, inspired by God, for man's use.

To be inspired by anyone, doesnt mean you have had any form of contact with that person or in this case being!!

Man only wrote what he thought was truth in his own mind...soon others followed...this lead to many men tampering their author skills in the bible

If you claim no one needs to follow a bible...then why bother saying its inspired by God?? Cuz if you believed in fact it was inspired by god, then you wouldn't be against anyone following it

I don't think it is possible to say that deep down you truly don't believe in God if you do not follow what the religious text 100%. I think it simply means you do not fear him as you should.

Lets say my mother catches me doing something wrong. She says "Jessica, if you do not stop what you are doing I am going to punish you." I test her limits and do it again, and she warns me a second time...and a third....fourth. She never does anything about it, just warns me. That is all books are capable of doing. Warning us. Books can not punish us to make us understand that this is the real deal that God is not going to be happy with us, therefore God relies on our will to follow his words.

It doesn't necessarily mean that you don't believe in God; it just makes you a bad follower.

I KNOW what inspired means thank you very much BM.



That part is true.


Because it is inspired by God. Do you know what the word inspiration means?





Inspired doesn't mean God spoke the words and man recorded it. It means that God inspired the men to write what they wrote just as seeing a beautiful sunset might inspire an artist to paint a picture. Just because it is divinely inspired doesn't mean we are to follow it. Your looking at it in a dual choice mindset. Your thinking "If it's the inspired WOG, than follow it." or "If it's not the inspired WOG, than don't follow it" However, I look at it as inspired, but not the Word of God, not for following, but instead as a tool for the refinement of faith. We follow the message not the messengers and the moment you start following the messenger it is then that you have negated the message and voided the messenger of it's purpose. The purpose of the Bible isn't to follow it but the message it holds. That message is Christ and that's who we follow.

but the text isn't to be followed it's to be used as a tool in aid of following.

To say inspired by God and to understand that God had no part in the writing in the bible...you just said in your previous post...MAN only wrote what he THOUGHT God would have wanted....world of difference on writing what you THINK may be what God wants...than writing down what God has actually said


If I wrote a book inspired by you lol...and called it - The teenage guy that believed he was God...........and i wrote a number of things...made them all up as i went along then claimed to be the word of COI...............<---dont mean you had any say in it....something that I myself made up....meaning i could say anything....especially if you wernt around to sue me for lies LOL like god..I mean anyone can write down their own thoughts and pass em off as the word of God...not as if they will find themselves in front of Judge Judy and being sued for millions LMAO

You can tell God had NO PART in that bible...

Maybe you don't understand. See what I bolded? I agree. Writing what you have been inspired to write isn't writing exactly what is being said.



Stop right there, if you wrote a book inspired by me it wouldn't be my words. However, it was still inspired by. Same with the Bible. BTW, if you were truly inspired by me, you wouldn't write falsehoods about me.




It is my belief that you have come to that opinion because you don't KNOW God personally. In fact, you have said before that you don't believe that thats possible.


I take offense to this because I DO NOT believe I am God.

I agree with EmpressStar. I think people who follow this argument are lousy followers. That's what I said in the original post.

No one is saying that the BIBLE in and of itself should be worshiped Child, I don't think you are that stupid to suggest that's what I'm saying.

I'm saying where do you get your Christ theory from? Its not supported in any other religious text that were written during similar times. In fact they actually say Jesus is NOT the messiah.

Now you say God came to you and spoke to you personally. So he told you personally about Jesus?

More likely you heard it from the Biblical influence on society. If you accept that the Bible reflects Gods wishes then you need to follow ALL OF IT

or NONE OF IT

Its either ALL TRUE or ALL SUBJECT TO SKEPTICISM


In other words where do we base Homosexuality is a sin on?

If you are a dairy farmer it is seven days a week. You have to milk them and feed them every day other wise when Monday comes you're going to have some unhappy cows.
I miss everybody having Sundays off. It was a day everyone got together for a nice dinner and spend some family time together. I remember my Uncle Dave use to come and visit my Dad on Sundays. Sunday was always laid back, you knew the stores were closed to you made sure you had everything you needed for Sunday dinner. I think it is kind of sad everybody works on Sundays now. We have lost something.

I made no reference to worshiped, I said it shouldn't be followed didn't I?


I don't need a religious text to know God.



Yes and Yes. Well actually it was a whole thing. God talked to me and explained his different aspects. Christ was one of them.



Maybe that's more likely, but it's not what happened.



That's such a limited way of thinking. It's All true, but you don't follow all of it. It's a TOOL for helping you in your walk with God. The Bible is God's messenger for the message of Christ. Do you follow the messenger or the message? I follow the message, the message is Christ.

I don't see why my personal talks with God are such a big deal. Many people do it on a regular basis, but again this also comes back to my "Not many are going to be saved" argument because SO many people think you need some text or pastor to tell you about God when God will tell you himself.

Depends on which religious follower you ask. The Qur'an is the literal word of God. Therefore, all muslims believe that Mohammad, peace be upon him, simply wrote down the exact words that God told him to.

Exactly Empress. Child, if you expect me to believe you were raised in a bubble and never heard one whit of Christ theory until God came and personally explained it to you, then you are having a different debate. So I conceed that to Child, God came to him personally.

So what's the gripe. Why do you need the TOOL if God talks to you at length for such detail?

Aside from that I'll open the argument to other points of view because most people don't claim that God speaks with them one on one like that.

So to the others I'm curious. Because all this sounds like to me is self justification for not wanting to follow the rules.

I heard of it, but had never really believed in it.



My relationship with God is for the purpose of my development and simply because I like talking to him. Usually if I ask him questions about something he will first ask me "Well what research have you done on that topic?" And usually he wont' give me his opinion until I have looked through these things for myself. Sometimes that research involves using the TOOL. Also, I feel the Bible is more of a tool for dealing with other people, not so much for dealing with God.



It's ok if it sounds like that, but I do follow the rules "Love God love others." Those are the rules and I keep to em

Great so you have no problem with Homosexuals getting married then right~!

The ten commandments weren't suppossed to be given to Gentiles (non-jews), God gave the ten commandments to Moses and the Israelites for their children to keep forever and ever. Now, on the other hand there are 7 laws that Gentiles should follow found in the Noah story (Who was a non-jew).
You can look into it more if you want, but I don't want to change the whole discussion . As for the bending things to fit a persons worldly desires, I agree with you on that one, if someone is complaining to you about following something and that person doesn't do it either, that's unacceptable and unjust to me.

I said you can tell that God had no part in the bible and you then add in response............



Now I find this weird for a reason...see below...




Now correct me if im wrong but....umm you just contradicted yourself here....I said more or less what you just said in the above quote...but because I said the same as you (so to speak) you have the nerve to reply with

Well in that case..and since you said more or less the SAME as me...........................you mustnt know him personally....make your mind up...cuz re-read the quotes above...and see just were you contradict yourself

Besides, who are you to tell anyone they dont know God?? you cant know what people experience


Well goes to show how you cannot read a post correctly..................cuz as plain as day I wrote....



Please note I was merly posting an example...gave a Hypothetical out look on it....hence the reason I wrote IF at the beginning...pay attention PLEASE!!!


It was hypothetical lol...and besides...lets say I did....if you arent around...not even on this planet...then what can you do about it...and further more...thats why those that wrote whatever they liked passing it off as Gods words...did just that...God cant do anything..

I can write a book and make as many stories up as possible...pass it off to be the word of anyone thats not here to do diddly about it....but i'll bet a lot will follow it and believe it to be true...

It goes like this BM.


BM SAYS: You can tell God had NO PART in that bible... <<See that's you....can you see it? Good, now absorb it into your mind

I replied:There isn't Biblical evdience to support that the Bible is the Word of God. There isn't anything that would even imply it. <<<See LOOKEY it's not the same as what you said. You said God had no part, I merely said the Bible isn't the Word of God. I am very very careful about my word choice, and I only contradict myself when I'm speaking with friends because then my word choice is poorer.


I'm sorry, but you yourself have told me that you don't believe it is possible to have a personal relationship with God. After that you said you DIDN'T have one with him. So do you take that back?


BM I didn't know you were a believer in conspiracies!

Child

Just wanted to ask again then, You have no problem with Homosexuals getting married then right?

So how do u talk to him CoI, in your head, directly?

They can get married all they want. I am not an enforcer. If they want to get married so let them. Whether or not God cares, I don't get into it because on such issues I am not qualified to interpret the voice of God on that matter, or maybe it's because I disagree with him. He and I haven't discussed it that much.


Lots of ways. Usually in my head (I'm not schizo), sometimes directly (though he doesn't speak directly). It's mostly in the heart that he speaks and through signs.

Now I can be as childish as you and blind...and post up huge font to only repeat the same nonsence that was just posted...but im more mature ..so i'll do this instead


COI contradictions...

COI -


BM - you can tell God had no part in the bible <--more or less what ou just stated yourself...

But for some mad reason this escapes you and you imply ....then BM if this is your opinion..you dont know God personally <----I laughed when i read this..cuz I had allready read how you saidthe same as me...



And as for being a believer in conspiracies...DUDE...you dont believe in the bible as Gods work..Neither do I............only im more open abut it and believe men wrote whatever they felt like....you are just babbling and repeating yourself

But you see I"M TELLING YOU! That's not what I said. God DID Have a part in the Bible, there's just nothing to suggest the Bible is the Word of God. PLEASE read my posts before responding.


HAHAHA <<Sarcasm I dont' think it's funny that you can't read what I say . It saddens me. What you and me said are two completely different things and your insistence that it's the same really makes me lose respect for you and your reading skills. I can no longer call you an honorary Christian. Looks like your alone in that list True.


I MUST repeat myself because your not listening. Your not understanding what I'm posting and I will keep posting it over and over till you get it.

Child...go back a page...re-read post 30

it clearly states..you quoting me with...

QUOTE
You can tell God had NO PART in that bible...

your direct responce was...



and my whole point to this is....you clearly said yourself...



thats no different from me saying --- You can tell God had no part in the bible lol

if anyone were to scroll back and read post 30...its sums it up dont it??

You said "God had not part in the Bible" Did I say that Geri? Did I say those words? Did I say that God had no part in it? NO! I didn't. I said That it isn't the Word of God. We said two separate things. Please don't try and assume my words have some deeper meaning, they mean what they mean on a surface level and if they have any meaning other than a literal one I will tell you so? OK? Can someone else PLEASE read my statement and Geri's and tell me how they are the same?

Umm yes you more or less said it..in fact you gave more detail..than I did..when I said you can tell God had no part in the bible..

your way of saying the same as I..was clearly...



now reading that CLEARLY says you believe God has no part in the bible...as you so gladly stated above....there is NO evidence to imply he did

and yet you go on argueing you havent said anything like it...WOW

Christ taught he was bringing the Gospel, the good news, this being that things had changed. We were no longer bound by the "Law" but now were under "Grace". The old testament was the laws that man was to live by, and the consequences for disobeying them. These were for the Jews only, not Gentiles. Christ was bringing the new order that God had decided to give. He had decided that no man, no matter how good, couldn't live their whole life, and never break those laws. So, he decided to send his son to give us new "laws" to live by. Love God. Love one another. Love as I have Loved. If you love your neighbor you can't kill, steal from, tell lies about, commit adultry... with or against, or hurt them. This was the spirit of the "law", which is what we were meant to follow.

I don't live my life as a Christian following the do's and dont's of the old set of rules for last school year, I follow the ones for this new school year. When people say but you have to stay at home on the sabbath, I don't see it that way. When people say that you can have slaves, I don't. When people say that you have to eat Kosher, I don't. If you follow the "Laws of Moses" you are following Judaism. If you follow the "Gospel" you are following Christianity. In every story in the old testament you hear about someone breaking the law, and the punishment suffered. In the new testament you hear how when someone does something wrong, they ask for forgiveness and God gives it...how are they the same. Why is one used to argue against the other to disprove its Truth?

Several times over and over I CLEARLY said you more or less said the same as me...now in my book the term - more or less...means to IMPLY the same

what is hard to get??