Some time ago, I posted a thread titled "Animals & The Supernatural" in the Paranormal forum, where I briefly discussed homing pigeons and felines finding their way home from unfamiliar locales.

In the article linked below, "Secret of Homing Pigeons Revealed", from Feb. 2004, no secret is revealed for how the pigeons find their way home the first time. They're said to use "their own navigation system" during long distance trips or flights from new locations. That's a wallop of an accomplishment for a pea-sized brain, and I don't think brains have anything to do with the process.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/02/06...reut/index.html

I've heard this chalked up to instinct in the past. A one word label explains nothing, and when scientists are satisfied with this, they do a disservice to their field of study. I'd have better respect for "We don't know" than the remark of "Instinct."

My hypothesis on this topic, as with emperor penguins who must sometimes deviate from their paths toward egg-wielding mates by several miles due to harsh winter conditions, is that the animals follow trails of energy residue. Like beacons, the animals can tune into the energy when their primary path is lost. It makes sense that homing pigeons would follow roadways as stated in the article, because the energy trails that I hypothesize, marking the animals' travels, would remain whether they flew or were transported by vehicle.

Many things that are attributed to instinct is really training or playfulness.

Cats don't go hunting by instinct but because an elder cat teaches them (in fact I have a zoological rarity, a male cat that takes the kittens on the "training tour") for some days.

Certain types of south sea Crows teach their young how to make a tool out of grass to extract maggots from dead wood, just to cite a few.

Additionally we must not forget the much keener sense of smell of the animals which additionally can lead the way.

Oh, by the way, cats home in a much more complicated way than pigeons. They walk in circles of increasing diameter until they find a known smell and then follow it.

Hi, QM,

I'll post the link if I locate the story, but one cat was separated from its owner by more than 1,000 miles. I'm doubtful that this could be attributed to a heightened sense of smell. I'll search for resources that delve further into the phenomenon than CNN, but please do post any references with which you're familiar.

I heard about these stories.

But I have another example, once we took a cat to the vets and it ran off in front of the office. It took him two weeks to walk five miles home. Even if the cat would have rested after every five steps it should have been home in less than two days if it had walked in a straight line. This certainly supports the observations of zoologists about the circle search scheme.

Any chance that the cat was scouting for lonely geriatrics with the quality moist food?

On a serious note, if the same circular pattern were used by cat traveling a distance of hundreds or thousands of miles, it's apt not to arrive home within its lifetime.

Probably true, but have we asked ourselves if the cat did not have the intent of returning home the whole time and memorized landmarks (better said land smells) ?

That would reduce the circumference of the circular pattern searches.

Bingo! Below is the link. I don't want to spoil the miraculous story for any doubters, but the cat of which I was thinking is named Ninja.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/excats/homing.html



Point taken, but were you speaking of your cat trolling for goodies from grannies, or the one that traveled several hundred miles?

Any thoughts on Ninja's olfactory prowess? I'd be interested to know how confined he was during travel. Were the windows open, for example? Was the cat cargo on a commercial airliner? If it's the latter, Ninja's sense of smell would be irrelevant.

I'll perform a more comprehensive web search for testimony from the family that may provide greater detail.

Me too, all we know really is that he traveled 850 miles in a year, which happens to be a little more than two miles a day. A small number for even a cat that has to eat on the way catching its food. On the other hand, if we go by the classical circle theory it could be a little too much. So the answer must be in between.

To get those answers the only solution is to find the owners (or ex-owners) and ask the some questions.

Hi, QM,

I must say I'm truly enjoying this debate: sniffing, triangulating cats. As for the PBS link, it's funny because I was thinking of the salmon and their homing not long before I found it. They're perhaps more fascinating than the cats in one respect, because they never have contact with the mother. The same is true for many insects.

As for the focused search, all I managed to locate was a site titled, "Mr. Boots", containing various unconfirmed accounts of cats crossing mountainous terrains and such to forge their way home. I used "Ninja", "Washington", and "Utah" for the criteria.

Hey FB,

This subject interests me also, as i have a dog which i lost in a festival (Glastonbury to be precise)...now, he was picked up by the pound on the M5 outside of Bristol...the direct road back to where i live in N.wales. This motorway is some 70 miles from the site of Glastonbury festival i think...and the area of the festival is in a maze of country roads near a place called...Pilford i think?

How Nugget found his way out of the countryside and on the direct road back home is anyones guess...energy signitures? i dont know...i believe its down to air pressure...i believe their sense of balence and ears are different (you know like when you go under water your ears pop) i wonder if they use their ears or sense of airpressure in this way. I also wonder (in the case for dogs and cats) if they combine their sences that generate a different sort of knowledge...for example combining correlations of air pressure with wind direction (felt by the whiskers).

Just a thought...perhaps pigeons have the same sort of thing...with perhaps the direction of weather and timing or the sun even...when we use these things we have to map them down in our conscious, rather than just do it...so perhaps although our self consciousness allows us to solve bigger problems...the little ones use alot more capasity than they would if we did not aspire to the big ones that self consciousness has allowed us to explore and therefore miss a few key elements or energy signitures.

mmm cheers FB, that was cool to think about

Here we hot something to start with.

Now, how did you take the pooch, in a car, in a box in the car?

Could he stick out his head to smell?

How long before he was picked up by the catcher?

i hitched and walked....not down the M5 either, because i went there from another festival down south...i had been traveling for about month before hand.

errr, i think it was just over a week before he got picked up...about a week and a half.

NICE ONE!

So we have less then ten miles a day with a dog that is accustomed to walk ... speaks for the circle theory.

Glad you decided to join the thread, nn. That was quite a story about your dog.

I'm beginning to think that humans have the homing ability. This past Sunday, I'd made plans to meet with a friend. Sometimes he helps his father with maintenance at their rental properties, so on this occasion I decided to take a late afternoon walk and check back with him later. Within two minutes of leaving my apartment, he'd pulled his truck into the parking lot of the animal shelter I was passing. I've been saying for weeks that it's time for my sister-in-law to walk in and request a human dosage of the euthanasia injection, so it seemed an odd location for the unexpected meeting.

This alleged homing used to happen frequently with a co-worker of mine in San Jose. We persistently crossed paths at the same shopping center, and it wasn't a location I visited frequently. Additionally, I always saw her at the south entrance/exit of the parking lot as she was leaving and I was arriving.

Well, did you want to see her? If yes the explanation may be more closer to C.G. Jung's subconscientious theories.

No. It may have been vice versa. I was always the one from whom she sought help when computer hardware/software problems arose. I didn't judge her or belittle her like some of those in the Systems Unit did.

mmm, dont you mean synchronicity? yeah, that bumping into each other thing could be like them non-local correlations thing in physics...which is a sort of mathmatic equivalent to Jungs synchronicity...i just been reading about it for my latest thread thats gone a bit scientific

Its looking at the universe like a pool table, ball A and ball B move, but there is no-one with a cue and neither of them touch each other...sounds rediculous? The theories have stood up to experimentation...dont ask me how, i'm only just reading into it...maybe this has something to do with the homing...again, dont ask me how, just throwing it in there...i might go and wiki it in a sec...see if i can find a way to connect it to the homing theories...i felt likke i had grasped it while i was reading, but now i feel confused again

NICE ONE!

Thanks, but no, I was talking about psychology. Exactly about Carl Gustav Jung, ol' Sigmund's first disciple.

Edit: SP

Synchronicity and homing may go hand in hand. When it occurs in humans, recognition is hindsight. In lower animals who lack many of our distractions, it could be foresight. They may weigh all patterns or energy signatures at their disposal, and if an urge to return home is received, they tune in on that signature.

My co-worker may have had a latent desire to see me, but it was shrouded by an accompanying inspiration to purchase shoes, a book, etc.

mmm, you read offended questionmark ....dont be offended by the ignorance of others...i simply did not understand how Jung's theories of subconscious could relate to this...i've nearly finished his archetypes of the collective unconscious, and i was unable to relate, but i would appreaciate if you could explain a little more of what you are talking about rather than just stating the connection and then leaving me in the lurch as to why....I'm not a mind reader

I brought up Jung's synchronicity, because i did see a relationship in this to FB's experiences and also in the book i have been reading "Quantum Psychology" by RAW, Robert stated that the two theories, that of Jung's synchronicity and "non-local" correlations a term which Bohr used as early as 1928 and underpin's Bell's theorm somewhat, are speaking of the same thing except in different scientific languages...one of psychological and one of the mathmatical.

Namaste
nn23

The interesting thing, is that the very idea behind "non local" correlations is that it draws no distinctive connection to the correlations...it sounds rediculous, but it has stood up to trials. ...this is probably all stuff that you already know, but its very exciting for me because i am only just reading up on it.

heres a quote....

...In these non-local effects, when we say no connection exists to explain the correlation, we mean, more bluntly, that no "cause" exists - in any sense that we have ever understood "cause"...

...The billiard table model only suggests one aspect of non-local reality. Another model, from a lecture by Dr. Bell himself _ as reported to me by Dr Herbert _ goes as follows:

Imagine two men, in Dublin and Honolulu. I magine that we have observed them carefully for some time and have deduced some "laws" of their behaviour> One law states that, whenever the man in Dublin wears red socks, the man in Honolulu will wear green socks. We then experimentally meddle with the system _ we "cause" ("or leastways bring it about," as Joyce says) that the man in Dublin takes his red socks, and dons green socks. We immediately check our monitors in Honolulu. We find that the man there has instantaneously taken off his green socks and donned red socks! (i disaprove of exclamation marks in expository pose, but this case seems to deserve at least one. Perhaps it deserves three or more...)

"Instantaneously" means among other things, that, we know for sure that no signal from Dublin could have reached Honolulu to create a connection between the events. Signals travel at the speed of light (or less) and cannot cause an instantaneous response. So the result in Honolulu does not even qualify as a "response", strictly, and would quickly get classified as coincidence _ except that, if these men continued to act like Bell particles, the same correlation would occur every time we got either men to change his socks...

...Jungian synchronicity, of course - accepted not just by Jungians but a lot of other psychologists - also involves this kind of non-local and non-causal correlation. Indeed, Jung specified that synchronicity could not fit into any purely causal, billiard-ball theory of the universe...
~ Robert Anton Wilson, Quantum Psychology.

I reckon these WELL support what your saying FB

We could say, that the energy signitures that you speak of could be the "cause" that doesnt exist in any sense that we have ever understood "cause", as Robert puts it.

Yeah, NICE ONE!
nn23

Nope, just clarifying. What I meant is that you do not have to be conscientious of initiating an action that leads to something you desire.

I don't get offended easily, used to be a politician.

Good stuff

Yes... I'm more of a practicing, as opposed to an arm chair, synchronicitist.



So, it would follow, hypothetically, that for every monk who takes a vow of silence, some poor soul in the distance is weaving a tapestry of obscenities, against his better judgment, to maintain cosmic balance.



I don't know if science ever will. While researchers must venture beyond the rational in the hope of rationalizing the irrational, synchronicity's causes may forever remain anecdotal.



I love the sense of humor. Was this you, or the scientist?



Since I wasn't sniffing for the friend I was hoping to see, nor him me (I hope not), and the situation parallels the lower animals' homing well enough, it could be a combination of energy signatures and energy trails. Since there was so much laughter associated with that animal shelter, translating to a strong energy signature, this might explain how he tuned in on me so easily. Energy residue generating a trail for an animal to follow fits the salmon homing concept well in my opinion. The deceased parents' trails would be visible to new offspring.

Yeah, i think i am with you on this one now FB . And no, that wasnt me (the funny bit), i could have cut it out as it was unnesecary, but i just had to include it Robert Anton Wilson (RAW) is such a funny character, his books have taken me on a journey throughout the years, his views have matured greatly. The book it was from was called Quantum Psychology.

NICE ONE

My ex-husband used to raise homing pigeons, and fancy roller and tumblers.

I remembered asking him how he thought they knew their way home. He never really knew for sure, but always felt that it could possibly be some type of electromagnetic thing. He found that there would be certain days where his birds would wind up missing or well off-course. He believes that his missing birds corresponded with impending thunderstorms, and he thought maybe he had an incident once when the Aurora Borealis was in view here in Washington (we do see it here sometimes).

I have no idea if his causual, non-scientific observations were correct, but they almost make sense. It could be a type of electromagentic sensing. I DO believe that birds and other animals are sensitive to magnetic shifs. My parrots would FREAK out before we had a minor earthquake (we had three quakes when I had my birds). They'd act up about 4 or 5 minutes prior to the event.

Great story, MissMels! It brought to mind the properties of lightning, namely how science has yet to understand how the negative and positively charged ions become separated. If the energy trail concept holds true, is that energy representative of the positive ions on the Earth's surface during a lightning strike?

A member once posted a story relating to poltergeist activity in his house. I don't expect anyone to place faith in his account, but it leads me back to the matter at hand.

He asked for opinions as to whether his house being struck by lightning may have led to the haunting. I told him that it may be the antithesis, because instruments have been used by objective researchers in alleged haunted locations that indicate higher than average percentages of positive ions. It could be more the case that the positive ions are present due to spiritual residue, and they aren't necessarily separated from the clouds as scientists estimate.

This raises a more interesting question: Does the lightning modify the properties of the trails, if indeed they play a role? Could this be the cause of the animals' confusion, or are they keeping a distance in light of possible physical discomfort (Auditory, for instance) they feel during a storm?

Now, a question for you, MissMels. How long was this following the storm that your ex-husband found the birds displaced?

Thanks for your feedback. I thought this thread was going to develop rigor mortis after nn23 conceded.

nah, just looking for hard evidence one way or another.

I appreciate your contributions, too, QM. Not to toot my own horn, but I think I've done a bang-up job with this latest hypothesis: lightning being a spiritual washing machine with no benefits apart from sparking fires, killing people who might have otherwise won the lottery, and confusing animals. It gives new meaning to the phrase, "Getting off the beaten path".

The trouble with hard evidence in solving a problem, as you know from your former career as a politician, is that cleverly constructed platitudes become unnecessary. Were you at a local or national level?

National, but not here in Greece. I was one of the original founders of the Green Party, but decided I had enough in 89 when the whole thing was on track and went back to my previous career in publishing. Nine years in politics is enough to have to repent the rest of your life.

I'm glad you joined the forum, QM. My hat goes off to the third party movement. I did once write a strongly worded letter to Peter Camejo on the matter of wealth redistribution (What I call Robin Hood economics), but that's beside the point.

Anyway, welcome!

Well, thanks Frank, glad I could contribute to that.

He kept the birds when he was in HS, they were fed in the mornings and evenings and he'd set them loose in the afternoons when he got home from school so that would be about 2-3pm.

We tend to get afternoon thunder storms here on the rare occasions that they happen. He'd turn them loose before the storm, the storm would happen while they were out... so I'm going to say an hour at the most was all it took for them to get lost. They'd show up the following day after roosting for the night. They'd come back as a flock.

I don't believe he ever had the entire flock go missing permanently, but there were occasions when 2 or 3 would wind up never coming back. Of course that could be due to a lot of factors, including being hit by a car, or caught by a cat, whatever.

I dunno, I just always thought that his guess was a good one.

My ex was also a die-hard salmon/steelhead fisherman... like neurotic about it. He always felt that steelhead found their way back to their hatch stream through scent. They have INCREDIBLE senses of smell. So much so that he worried incessantly about how HE smelled before he went fishing. He might have been right about that too... he had the highest steelhead catch rate in the state for several years running, but he smelled BAD for years as a sacrifice to steelhead fishing. hahaha. I might not miss him, but I definitely miss his fish. haha

Hi all,

I’m a pigeon Fancier and have raced pigeons for the last 15 years, no way do Racing pigeons find their way home by following the Roads, I race my pigeons from 95 miles all the way through to 505 miles into France, which means they have to cross the English channel at its widest point, no roads there just open sea/water
This is what happens when I train my birds I release them, then they circle for about 1 minute then they get their bearings and “break for home” a racing pigeon travels at around 60mph, now the theory of following roads just does not add up and here is the reason why, if am racing from 95 mile I expect the pigeon to fly in a straight line from the liberation point to my pigeon loft in my back garden which traveling at 60mph would be a mile a minute, if the bird were released at 9am I would expect to clock the pigeon at 10:35. And sure enough at that time my pigeons arrive, now if they used the road network as a way to find their way home they wouldn’t be able to do the mile a minute because they’d be going off course to follow motorways/freeways

Also studies have been done were racing pigeons have had contact type lenses put on their eyes which makes the birds vision look like their looking through frosted glass, now with out being able to see these birds made it back to their loft, the only problem they had was landing,

Reasons for losing pigeons on racers are, hitting pylons, hitting wires that are just above the hedge rows on farmer’s fields. Hawks and pigeons sent not being 100% healthy,

My theory is that pigeons use the earth’s magnetic field the position of the Sun and also Smell.

On some days when it’s overcast and you can’t see the sun it takes them a bit longer to get their bearings before they break for home, but they do get home. I think it’s just a case of using all three, magnetic field sun and smell, if they can’t see the sun they rely on the other two,

If you have any questions just ask,

Until next time

Stay safe

Steve.

Thanks Steve, this was useful information.

Thanks Steve, that was pretty much my ex-husbands theory too. Although it would have been hard to tell if sun placement was a factor, well, because this is Seattle and we rarely see the sun.

I used to raise parrots (hundreds if not thousands) and I would probably only take exception to smell being one of the senses they use. Birds in general do not smell well. Ornathologists believe that a birds sense of smell is probably only about as good as a humans; With perhaps the exception of carrion eating birds like vultures--they have the ability to smell out rotting well, carrion.

I do think you and my former husband are on the right path in thinking that it's electromagnetic sensing and they may also utilize the standard air currents which if you're a pilot you know remain pretty constant everywhere and in general move at certain speeds and directions depending on alltitude, they can certainly assist a bird in knowing where they are.

Good thoughts!

Hi,

I forgot to mention in my first post, the ‘k’ index. The last time we had a warning about 8 weeks ago the race was a disaster with birds taking an extra hour to home and thousands of birds missing, but most birds made it home the following day. Below is the latest warning. So I think the magnetic field plays some part, ..

The 'K' Index factor is brewing up again after a quiet spell. SIDC issued the following warning today:
QUOTE
PRESTO FROM SIDC - RWC BELGIUM Mon Jul 9 2007, 1143 UT
Solar activity is expected to reach eruptive levels with chances of C-class flaring activity from NOAA AR 0963.
Geomagnetic activity is expected to reach active condition levels during the next 48 hours, due to a fast solar wind stream from a coronal hole. Active conditions are expected late on July 10. UNQUOTE

NOAA AR 0963 is a new Flare, started up last Saturday on the Sun's Eastern face, and is coming round this way ! If that "fast solar wind stream" is still blasting out on Thursday (and I will let you know) then you can expect a poor race on Saturday 14th July. If it drops off I'll also tell you that too. Cheers,

http://sidc.oma.be/registration/registration_step1.php

To be honest I think Humans have the same navigational ability as pigeons or whales or any animal that migrates, problem is over the years we’ve lost the ability because of technology taking over, like most skills if you don’t use them you lose them.
if that makes sense.

Heres the Video of the Liberation that was a disaster. i think 10,000 birds where liberated.

http://s135.photobucket.com/albums/q156/Po...s2605070004.flv

Bye for now

Steve,

Oh well there ya go.

In my first post I mentioned that some of my husbands birds went missing during a rare sighting of the Aurora Borealis down here. Typically, we can't see the Aurora, but when we can its visibility is directly related to the K index... this is how metorologists and scientists can predict when we might be most likely to see that beautiful spectacle.

Yep yep Steve, I think that's probably it, homing pigeons are definitely affected by electromagnetic fields. Now I'm even more convinced.

Thanks Steve, that helps.

I third that. Great information, Steve! And thank you, too, MissMels.

I do still wonder about the pigeons who were observed in research following highway paths. I realize it's not true of racing pigeons, and most definitely not those who pass major bodies of water.

Though the electromagnetic concept could still relate to energy signatures/trails in some fashion when birds are transported to a new location via motor vehicle.

Hi,

I guess the concept could still relate to energy sigs/trails when they're transported by road, but it would be interesting to know were the birds loft was located and from what direction and distance they where liberated during the experiment.


until next time,


steve.

Hi, Steve,

I was curious about the circular flight pattern, during which the birds regain their bearings. One might expect, if the animals were attuned to the electromagnetic signature of their home latitude/longitude, that the redirection would be more abrupt.

I haven't researched the bee population issue thoroughly, beyond reading a few articles replete with fear mongering, but do you see any possibility that the 'K' index factor is hampering their ability to locate sites where pollination occurred in the past?

Hi frank,

The Circular flight pattern of the birds, when I first let my birds out of the basket they circle and then find their “bearings” then break for home. I must add for example, If I have a Hen (female) sitting on newly hatched chicks, when she’s released from the basket she won’t circle with the rest of the flock she will instantly break for home, most people use this method if they want to win a big money race, because the bird instantly homes, so not losing time circling, my theory why they circle is a mixture of assessing the area for predators and also serves for them to warm up before going flat out and maybe getting their bearings,

Bees.
Im unsure about the K Index effecting Bees, I guess it could be possible, I once was told by a bee keeper that Mobile phone mast’s were affecting the Bees, the bee keeper said that since a mobile phone mast was erected only 100 yards away from a field full of hives that the production of honey was down something like 60% and the size of colony had decreased, the bee keeper was even thinking of taking drastic action and move the colony to another site, I know this has nothing to do with the K index. I honestly think that Mobile phone mast have an affect on animals birds and insects.

Heres a little bit about Bees,

Mobile phone threat to bees:

Mobile phones have wiped out millions of bees, scientists have warned. The phone signals are thought to upset their navigation and they die of exposure after losing their sense of direction.

Up to 90pc of bees have been killed in some areas. But, bizarrely, few dead bodies have been left behind. Instead, the insects vanish.

The phenomenon - Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) - has spread to Europe after appearing in the US last year, where the commercial bee population has declined by about two-thirds. A study by a German researcher found bees refuse to return to their hives if nearby mobiles are left on.

In Britain, CCD has been noticed only in London and the South East. Bee-keeper John Chapple reports that 23 of his 40 hives in the London area have been deserted. With bees thought to contribute £1bn to the UK economy - mainly by pollinating plants - the Government's Bee Unit is investigating.

Hope I haven’t bored you to death,

Stay safe

Steve

Sorry but that does not match the observation we made here on the island. One of my friends has his hives right below a cellphone mast and does not have any problems we don't have. We had few very isolated cases of CCD (including my best hive) and found that once we sterilized the hive a new colony thrives in it. My guess for the culprit of CCD is more in the direction of a fungus and virus. But could be wrong.

In any case it is known that high frequency radiation (like cell phones, radar, microwave ovens and so on) irritate bees leading sometimes to them not finding the hive again.

And no, you haven't bored me... this is more interesting than discussing some ghost somewhere.

Hello again, Steve,

Bored? By no means. Thanks for the information. It occurred to me that birds could simply rotate their heads to inspect their surroundings for predators, given the extreme swivel of their necks, but in mid flight this would be neither practical nor safe. The circle pattern fits the situation quite well.

As for the bees, another member posted data that pointed toward a parasite, leaning in the direction QM is pointing. I'd previously found a National Geographic article, stating that the population issues weren't well documented in the 20th century.

Hi QM & Frank

I have to admit my knowledge on Bee keeping is limited to the conversation I had with one bee keeper and the stories that’s been on nature/news channels and
from your observations your best placed to judge the situation.


I've added this link, which blows most of my theories on pigeon Navigation out of the water,

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/08/14/p...ategory=animals


Steve,

That was a helpful link, Steve. I'm now more confused than I was when I initiated the thread, but I'm rather accustomed to having my theories blown out of the proverbial water.

I can't attribute my own experiences to the olfactory lobe, but I'm now wondering if the process used by the animals has anything at all to do with their brains.

Since sense of smell is so important to an animal's ability to hunt, that could have caused the pigeons to go insane. Perhaps they lost the focus necessary to home, and it may not necessarily be the case that smell is responsible for homing. Hmm...

My best guesstimate is that there is a combination of factors, one that there is some organ, brain zone or what have you capable of detecting magnetic fields. If personal empiric experience helps, thinking about it, when I am on my boat and wake up I always know (more or less) the course we are on. I have attributed it always to the sun. But, coming to think of it, it is something that happens on cloudy days too...

Then there is our memory, that links our position to known landmarks and therefore the direction we have to travel in. by the way, the memory of animals is not as small as we assume. Even Bees give accurate descriptions of their finds to the rest of the hive, and how big a brain can they have?

Last but not least there is the smell sensation, even a human can navigate by smell if it is strong enough. Animals can smell 50 - 300 times better.

Hi again,

Im starting to think that maybe the ability to home isn’t as spectacular as we're making it out to be, maybe there’s an easy explanation, but were looking for a complicated answer to the questions, if we went back in time, to the time when humans were just hunter gatherers, having a guess. I’d say they most probably went hunting for days on end and then, found their way back to wherever they call home, so us humans once upon a time had the same ability that just come naturally to us but like I said in a previous post we started to use technology and we, over time lost the ability? So now when we look at mammals navigating it amazes us

Since reading this topic, we’ve had reports that pigeons us the roads then magnetic fields then maybe smell, im confused, will we ever find the answers??

until next time

Steve,

Could it be the simplest answer: All of them?

Ok, here's my observation on circling.

Like I mentioned, I raised and trained tons and tons of parrots.

One of the varieties I kept and trained were Patagonian Conures, seen below:



I trained these exceptionally bright birds as one would train a hawk. You can teach them a type of marking, although they rarely if ever bring down prey (they're not raptors, they're parrots) and they'll return to you with the mark. It's more of a game than real hunting.

The Patty's would circle as they took flight to retrieve their mark, and would again circle on their return to me. I always felt that they were not getting their bearings (they knew where they were going), but were more getting a feel for the air and wind currents, testing for thermals. I could be completely wrong, but they very rarely flew straight for me, but would mostly circle first, even if it were just a turn or two.

They idea that they were "limbering up" makes sense too... Patagonians like pigeons, are a broad heavy body bird... stretching finding their stability points, might actually be more needed for them than a lighter slimmer bodied bird.