tell me, why do some of you guys think that on our small planet, all of these reptilians, greys, and ufos could all fit here without being caught, or leaving behind evidence. its hard to beleive that their is not one single shred of evidence for these "anomalies". how in the hell could 6 billion not find a single proof that these things are really here. with sattelites. im sure we would have found these alien spaceships. their are plenty reasons not to believe that aliens are here because our earth is not big enough to hide such things, we have already discovered 99 percent of all big species on earth, and if we could find a 50 foot squid in a huge ocean, then we shouldve found a giant spaceship in the sky

Mostly one would argue if they can travel to earth, they are much more advanced civilization. Being that advanced, if they wanted to hide from our technology they could. Consider the US stealth jet (F117) up until recently it could defeat the electronic detection methods of most counties that had less advanced tech than the US. It wouldn't be that hard to fathom someone with even more advanced tech being able to screen anyone on Earth's technology.

Also if you're in with the conspiracy theory aspect, most of the people with the technology to detect it are the ones who are supposedly hiding it.

To address the lack of evidence. If you want evidence of aliens it needs to be clearly extra terrestrial .. ie. they would have to leave technology or materials behind that couldn't be explained by any other means. It's not exactly hard to pick up after yourself, why would you expect them to leave anything behind that would be obviously alien?

Our world leaders seem to be hiding it well.....

the subject of ufos has been more successful in ruining reputations of people rather than providing evidence

Military and commercial aircrews reported that the UFO was larger than an aircraft carrier.

The Flight Of Japan Airlines Flight 1628

In November, 1986, a Japanese crew of a jumbo freighter aircraft witnessed three unidentified objects while flying over Alaska, USA. This sighting gained international attention when the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) announced that it was going to officially investigate this sighting because the Air Route Traffic Control Center in Anchorage, Alaska, had reported that the UFO had been detected on radar. Captain Terauchi was featured on numerous radio and TV programs and in People Magazine. Within a few months of these events he was grounded, apparently for his indiscretion of reporting a UFO, even though he was a senior captain with an excellent flying record. Several years later he was reinstated. The UFOs in this case were tracked on both ground and airborne radar, witnessed by experienced airline pilots, and confirmed by a FAA Division Chief.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/jalalaska.htm

UFOs have already ruined reputations of the folks at those skeptical UFO web sites. Ask Tim Printy why he was forced to make corrections on his own web site and who was responsible for him doing so.

Telll him skyeagle409 sent you.

The evidence is out there DUH.I mean come on.The proof is that people are seeing these things and having encounters.The people would be the evidence.I have seen them and it is not nonsense,but its commonsense to open your mind and think about such things as peoples pictures of UFOs,crop circles,alien abductions or encounters and many other things are showing that they are here.

The problem is not that we don't have proof, But that we are too scared to see and understand it...How do you explain the implants they remove from people that are not of any metal known to this earth....

There is no evidence, other than anecdotal evidence. That's the problem. I don't care how many cut and paste jobs skyeagle tosses out there. There is just NO concrete evidence, and for every honest person out there that believes they saw something or had some type of experience, there are a hundred who are crazy or out for money/attention. Period.

This is a long link, But worth reading i think this is the closest thing we have to proof of alien's.......


http://members.tripod.com/~adriandvir/implants.htm


http://gordii0.tripod.com/ALIEN_IMPLANTS.HTM

Apparently, extraterrestrial UFOs are a reality and there are tons and tons of evidence that support that reality.

In fact, scienitst and engineers who were tracking balloons, have stated for the record that the flying saucers they were tracking with their sophisticated instruments were "extraterresrial" and their documents are available for anyone who wants to review them. The Air Force's EOTS, Wright-Patterson AFB, 1948 concluded that some UFOs were "interplanetary spaceships" and in August 1952, the Air Force's intelligence report on UFO maneuvers basically concluded that some UFOs are extraterrestrial spacecrafts as well.

Sooner or later, people are going to realize that these objects are not ours.

What I find amazing about your statement is, that skeptics who make such statements are the same folks who still believe that a weather balloon or a Mogul balloon train were responsible for the Roswell incident despite the fact there is absolutely NO evidence at all. There was never any evidence that any balloon was responsible to begin with yet there are skeptics who still claim the evidence are the Roswell photos, which is amazing to me considering that it has now been proven that the Roswell photos were hoaxed by the military. Now, why is that so true?

Reminds me of those who still believe that the earth is flat, despite evidence to the contrary. Ignoring the evidence isn't going to change reality.

I could not have said it better myself. The disbelievers will find out someday,maybe they are better off not thinking about it,actually they wouldn"t.

Just because we cannot find real evidence, doesn't mean thier not there. It wasn't til recent that we know the earth is covered of meteor craters, we just haven't looked.

We're not satisfied until one shakes your hand, but you might question that too.

their is definitely micro-organisms out in space in my opinion, but the for a civilization more advanced than us to come her is ridicolous, and does not deserve any credibility. its that simple..

this is the best ammo whoever have to ruin anybody's reputation. especially in this subject. It's easier to call somebody they are nuts or a liar so you can shoo them off from the public's perking ears.

Regardless how many evidences there are out there, there's always somebody to bring the credible evidence down. The only thing we could actually pull as proof these days is if a humongous mothership will come in a decloak state, do whatever it coul to impress us, and first contact. where every skeptic's eyeballs could popped out seeing it and the black govt can't do a poop to deny their existance. But I bet my last penny the govt would do anything to cover that up too :pft:

Well that's the whole thing decided then.........

Thankfully the ability to have a more open mind tends to lead to an advancement of the world at large and we normally learn more quickly.

Why in the wonderful world of science would you completely write of the trillions of possible worlds as being totally retarded of life beyond ours, why would they come here, well the same as we try to go to them. Why have we not seen them, well what are we looking for exactly?

Have thing came here that defy our laws of flight, oh yes...

Have things been seen by astronauts and other incredibly knowledgeable people that they simply don't understand, oh yes..

Have we logged these on military radar etc, oh yes..

Simply to dismiss all of this because you don't go for it is daft, to dismiss it because your politician and or government says so is even more daft, they do lie about things you know, not just UFO's but WMD and other key issues. The CIA etc does not exist for nothing....

Time for a reality check.

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Chile Announces UFOs Are For Real
CHILEAN AIR FORCE RECOGNIZES UFOS AS FLYING MACHINES PILOTED BY ET INTELLIGENCE

On 2nd April 1997, Chilean newspaper "La Cuarta" has the following headline: "UFO Sighting of Arica is Confirmed by La Direccion General de Aeronautic Civil." Chile did start to join the small number of countries who officially stated that the nature of UFOs is of intelligent driven flying machines.

The event that started this official recognition was a very seriously documented observation by the staff of an air traffic control tower at the Chacalluta International Airport in Arica, the northernmost city in Chile. On Monday, 31st March, 1997, at 12:55am, three UFOs were visually seen by the staff from the control tower and recorded on radar. They were tracked at speeds up to 8,000 mph according to the eyewitnesses, over the Pacific Ocean, near Morro de Arica. They remained there for two hours. At about 3.00am, the objects "flew away at very high speed," heading for the Andes.

The Airport's director, Julio Schettner stated that the UFOs hovered "at an altitude between 3,000 and 4,500 metres and emitted blue, red, green and yellow lights which made them clearly visible to the naked eye. In our tower, it was not possible to track them on radar, so we contacted the radar control rooms in (Arequipa) Peru and Santiago (de Chile). None of them had flights registering in Arica at that moment."

Schettner said that he had been doubtful about the existence of UFOs, but not anymore," adding that they left Arica "at an astonishing speed."

On Wednesday 2nd April 1997, the Direccion General de Aeronautica Civil (DGAC), Chile's civilian aeronautical ministry, announced that the three UFOs in Arica had been confirmed on radar, DGAC radar and Fuerzas Aereas de Chile (FACh) Air Force radar tracked the Arica UFOs "travelling at speeds of up to 12,800 kilometres (8,000 miles) per hour."

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I find it amazing that some skeptics have dismissed all of the pilot reports and irrefutable radar and other electronic data evidence on UFOs.

Highly experienced military and commercial pilots have reported contact with gigantic flying saucers over the years, which were confirmed on ground-based and airborne radars. Highly experienced scientist and engineers have stated that they have been tracking flying saucers, and that the flying saucers they were tracking were extraterrestrial.

Unfortunately, there are those who will simply say that those experts are mistaken.

It's NOT irrefutable, that's the point. And again, it's all anecdotal, non-physical in nature. I find it insulting that you string out all these reports from the Chilean Air Force (who by the way, are pretty much low-tech technology of the 60's users) and call it proof, while labeling me as an non-believer. It's just insane. A radar operator in 1950-something says, "It appears to be an extra-terrestrial spacecraft" and you hang on to it like a drowning man to a piece of flotsam. I understand that it IS evidence, but its just NOT consistent, and NOT tangible.

Just because a scientist says a thing is extraterrestrial, does NOT mean it is, or that they are seeing ALIEN technology. If you want to believe, that's fine, but you are taking a leap of faith, plain and simple.

The electronic data evidence is irrefutable and such evidence can be used in a court of law, and I might add that electronic data evidence has been used in a court of law and been used to assist in aircraft accident investigations to validate events as they happened.



The pilot reports, military and commercial, and radar evidence were clear and summed it up, that the flying saucers during the 1952 Washington D.C. incidents were not ours.



Since those scientist observed flying saucers hovering 200 miles above the earth then watch them zoom off at hypersonic speeds, then common sense would dictate that the flying saucers were not ours and why the scientist and engineers have stated for the record that those flying saucers were extraterrestrial. So, what you are saying is, the experts don't know what they are talking about.

The experts say the earth is round and there are those who'll dismiss the conclusions of the experts and evidence and still claim the earth is flat.

Could we please clarify this a bit first. First, exactly who are these experts? Are you saying that scientists and engineers claim it's possible that some UFOs might be of ET origin. Or, are you saying that scientists and engineers are saying that it's been proven that some UFOs are ET space craft? There's a big difference between these two statements.

Its funny, you bold 8,000. 8,000 mph is not very impressive for a susposed civilization that is capable of traversing deep space. NASA's unmanned aircraft the X-43 which was designed to test the scramjet engine, reached speeds of 7,800 mph. Are you to conceed that we are traveling as fast as these aliens, who are advanced enough to bend "space-time" as many of you claim to.

Oh yeah, The X-43 opperates inside the stratosphere. And since you are such a conspiracy theorist, Skyeagle Im sure you are aware of the next gen SR-71s. Undoubtedly the government have next gen spy planes that are classified. Many a theorist thinks the next gen SR-71s are capable of atleast mach-8. But since neither you nor I have the highest level of military clearence we will not know untill it is made public. I am sure though, you will find me a newspaper article that claims the next gen SR-71s are UFOs or that they are reverse engineered from alien technology.

I have curiosity question for you Skyeagle, Why do you think aliens are visiting us?

Because of the patently obvious answer that many people are not willing to admit too. They don't exist. They are in fact figments of the imagination, & perpetuated by hoaxers, people with vested interests, (who would visit the little town of Roswell & spend that lovely loot if not for the folklore) people who crave attention & people who earn there living doing the lecture circuit.

Sorry i forgot,....the clinically insane.
think that covers it.

what I have noticed is Sky loves to throw around the words "scientist and engineers". Furthermore at 200 miles above the earth you are orbiting not hovering. And here it is relativly easy for aircraft and satellites to achieve "hypersonic speeds". Which by the way turns out to be only mach 5 or roughly 3800 mph. It turns out at this height our space shuttle travels 5 times faster than this.

Either you dont know your terminology or you watch too much star track. Either way, "hovering" at 200 miles off the surface of the earth and then going out into space at "hypersonic speeds" is feats we do all the time. The Helios satellite broke from the thermosphere and accelerated to 227.1 mach, roughly 150,000 mph. That is slow by the way on a cosmic scale. Yet here are these extrasolar beings or extragalactic who would have had to cross immense portions of space to get here and they break from our orbit at hypersonic speeds? Get a clue, sounds like 1 too many late night x-files for you.

Where is this evidence, where are these reports? You said the Chilean government is open about UFOs why have they not handed out these radar reports? Why do they not publish them in credible journals or submit them to other experts for further evaluation?




Really, You want to argue this with evidence from half a century ago?



Yep and the experts say, that is the overwhelming majority of scientists, that UFOs are not ET objects, they maybe something someone really sees, but its not from another world. I guess some people still claim they are wrong as well. LoL

Yes i'm afraid when applied to U.F.Os this statement does rather shoot yourself in the foot.

Sorry, 50 year old evidence is junk. I've worked on technology, RADAR as a matter of fact from that era, and it was and is crap. Completely NOT reliable. And I have known many engineers in my days, and many military people, and they are no more reliable than any one else. It's a conspiracy theory. Not fact. Stack up all the anecdotal evidence you want, it's still just anecdotal.

Thanks for the link Isis, it was very interesting

As simple as it is to keep our identity and purpose a secret from a hill of ants... It's just as easy for the aliens to do that to us.

The universe is over 64 Billion years old and they only could evolve up to a Micro-organism and no more, right!

Yet we, in the last half a million years evolved to where we are now, right!

Only those scientist and engineers who have been tracking and documenting the UFOs, the commercial and military pilots who have specifically reported flying saucers flying along side of their aircraft, whose visual contacts were confirmed on airborne and ground-based radars, which I must include radar experts as well.



Only those scientist and engineers who have stated and documented that the flying saucers they were tracking, were extraterrestrial objects.



Only those scientist and engineers who have tracked and documented the flying saucers they were tracking. After all, what aircraft did we have there were saucer-shaped and capable of hovering 200 miles above the earth's surface and hypersonic velocities?



You are correct and that is why I have written, "ONLY those scientist and engineers who have tracked and documented flying saucers with their tracking equipment."

I did so because there are scientist who still claim that based on the evidence, (what evidence?) a Project Mogul balloon train #4 was responsible for the Roswell incident, and it's those scientist that I have no respect for because their mindsets do not depict the mindsets of real scientist because they just don't bother to do their homework as they should. Had they done their homework, they would have found that it was impossible for Project Mogul balloon train #4 to have been responsible for the Roswell incident and it wouldn't have taken much mine-power to make that determination, a simple examination of the facts and records would have been sufficient.

I have to ask those so-called scientist, what evidence do they have available that confirms an involvement of a Project Mogul balloon train in the Roswell incident? Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking all scientist, just those who are out to debunk UFOs. J. Allen Hynek was once skeptical of UFOs, that is, until he began his investigation into the UFO enigma. He did his homework and shed his skepticism, and that came about after he once claimed that UFOs were the result of "swamp gas."

It is amazing what a person will find on the other side of the door, AFTER that door has been opened!

And, you would have noticed that I have included scientist and engineers who have documented their observations on the flying saucers they were tracking and documenting, that the flying saucers they were observing were extraterrestrial.



Apparently, when the scientist stated that the flying saucers they observed hovering 200 miles above the earth, there were no man-made satelllites in orbit. The first satellite of manknd wasn't placed into orbit until years later. You see, I have been known to come down hard on those who've claim to be scientist, but failed to do their homework, and that is the problem with many scientist of today in regards to UFOs because many of them still claim that a Project Mogul balloon train #4 was responsible for the Roswell incident, and that is telling me in very clear words, those scientist have proven that they have failed to do their homework.

A simple check of the records would have told them there were no such balloon flight,and they call themselves scientisth??? More like a "wanna-be scientist."

Go back to where I posted the documents regarding the Roswell incident. I am sure you've seen them before.



I am very sure that reports are available. In fact, radar reports from other nations have already been revealed and I posted radar data just the other day on this board.





Since a hundred years ago, scientist and engineers now have available equipment that wasn't available back then, and who have stated that the flying saucers they have been tracking with such equipment, were extraterrestrial.

I consider that statement a matter of comic relief, especially since I have provided data and other information that have already proven the skeptics wrong (the earth is flat) on UFOs. Ask CSICOP and the guy at The Skeptic's Dictionary. Ask UFO skeptic Tim Printy, why he was forced to write a correction on his skeptical UFO web site.

I have had to correct Tim Printy on other UFO-related issues as well and I don't limit my criticism to skeptical web sites either, I have corrected the Federation of American Scientist on the performance capabilites of the Air Force's F-15 Eagle, and since then, they have made their correction to my satisfaction.

I have read that same comment from those skeptical web sites. Had they done their homework, they would have found that the radar units in 1952 became reliable enough that air traffic controllers used them on a regular basis.

Just goes to show why it is not prudent to rely on those skeptical web sites because they are nortorious for gettting the facts wrong.

Actually, the reality of it all, is that UFO skeptics cannot bring themselves around to accept UFOs as reality, and the UFOs I am referring to are extraterrestrial. They tend to dismiss radar data as th result of natural phenomena. Any logical reason as to why radars are all-weather systems with filters?

That would be the majority of people on this planet and others such as these, worldwide:

* Astronauts and cosmonauts

* Commercial and military pilots

* Police officials

* Former presidents and other Heads of State

* Air traffic controllers and radar operators

* Astronomers

* Many scientist and engineers

* Senior Intelligence officials

* Senior military officers and enlisted personnel

I think your comment applies to skeptics who hold on to the claim that right-angled maneuvering, hypersonic weather balloons are mistaken as UFOs.

The great itsnotoutthere with another pointless post! Ufos are real, we all know that, and we also know that some of these objects are completly unexplained. So are you saying that these objects that many people are seeing is just figments of their imagination? Cant you even bring yourself to admit that some of these disk objects that have been witnessed are actually there, and people are seeing them. Or do you think they are all rubbish, mad, mental, attention seekers? And before you start saying the same old " fuzzy photos and blurry photos" remember! I need proof that these things are ET too, but something is def flying in our airspace that we know nothing about.



Do you actually look at cases? or do you just say its all crap, just for the sake of it.

It is simply amazing what some folks will say!

There are many skeptics who won't go that far as to attribute all UFOs to the imagination. In fact, there are UFO skeptics who have acknowledged that UFOs are real, but won't attribute them to ET. They have attributed them to misidentifications and natural phenomena, and even I, will agree with them somewhat, because I am on the record that the majority of UFO sightings are the result of misidenfications, natural phenomena, hoaxes, planets and meteors, etc. Even one of our own KC-10 tankers was misidentified as a UFO. With all of its formation, strobes and navigation lights on, it almost looks like a flying Christmas tree to some folks. The aircraft was out of Travis AFB, California.

The cases that I am interested in are neither of those descriptions.

Where are these scientist now? Why is their data not published in credible journals? Again Newspaper is not science, never has been and never will be. Nor is a scientist conceeding the possibility that there are ETs in the universe.





Sky, you are so contradicitive its funny. You get information about moguel off the internet and scream that is proof it didn't exist? can you reach anymore?



Sorry, I got to come down on you, what do you know about real scientists? what scientific circles do you travel in? What have you published? What is your scientific education, I hear you keep saying you worked on radar for the AF, that means nothing in the grander scheme of things. You have a formal education in physics? Astronomy? Biology? Astronautical or aeronautical engineering? Chemistry? Saying you worked on radar and equipment for the military is akin to my direct TV repair man trying to give me a lecture on electrical circuts. I think you have showed to an extreme that you can not tell the difference between newspaper/media babelings and scienfitic evidence. Repeating "well scientists, I tell you scientists said they saw them" does not make it true, nor does it constitute scientific evidence or formal indisputable evidence for that mater. It only shows your lack of education and judgment on being able to tell the difference.




Well all websites are just that, they are websites. You dont use a website in a scientific debate that is peoples opinions, thats not very scientific. Doesn't matter if its skeptic or believe, saying "I have evidence" then providing a link to ufonation.com is hardly evidence.

For instance..


This links to a page, that makes a claim, supported by a 1952 article from Life magazine. The page does not display a link to the original article, nor does it have a pdf copy. 2 of the pages other magazine links are broken. The article has obviously been retyped as the format is fit to html and is typed not scanned. If you think this is providing evidence then I suggest you use your Airforce college money to attend a community college and take a comparative
studies class with a subject on scientific evidence.



Lol, this is your radar data? Again taken from a newspaper article man. Get real. Radar data is stored electronically, unless you are suggesting the government has lower capabilites than NOAA who stores all of their data on NCDC Robotic Mass Storage System (HDSS), which as it turns out is open to scientist who wish to investigate things. All these scientists you claim exist with this indisputable evidence must be too poor to buy hard drives.





*sigh* again who are these mysterious scientists, where are they now? Can you contact one of them? WHY IS THERE WORK, THAT IS SO SCIENTIFIC, NOT PUBLISHED IN A SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL? IS IT BECAUSE ITS SPECULATION? You throw the word scientist out like its susposed to make us shutter and awe over what you said, does that give you the attention you seek? Because that does not work on me, I am a scientist, when I hear of other scientists I would like to think of ethical, objective, skeptical, investigative people like myself. But all these scientist you claim exist with data are truely unethical as they refuse to share their data for second opinions.



Whats funny is, you have claims, no evidence. Without that you are a minority, with no supporting evidence. You also didn't anwser/address all of my questions/points...



or

How do you know none of us haven't?

It wasn't funny, it was deliberate!! No telling what their top speed is in space.



Now, that's funny!! Is that all the airspeed it reached???

Let's go back to the 1950s, which is many years before the X-43 flew.



That is what has been documented in our atmosphere, and no telling what their top spreed is in space. NORAD isn't releasing everything it knows.



The X-43 is not even in the same ballpark as real UFOs. It can't hover silently, manuever at rigth-angles beyond 40 Gs, is not capable of the top-end velocities of real UFOs.



Of course I am! And, I watched SR-71s in Okinawa.



I know as a fact that the SR-71 was capable of speeds beyond the official line, but I also know that the SR-71 was NOT the fastest aircraft in the world either, the A-12 was much faster and flew higher than the SR-71. You see, I know much more than I have been revealing.



Let's take a step back into reality. First of all, the SR-71 is not saucer-shaped nor capable of right-angled maneuvers at high G-loads and cannot hover either, and it looks much like a conventional aircraft, and that is what sets the SR-71 apart from real UFOs. Furthermore, unlike UFOs, we never flew the SR-71 in positive nor terminal-controlled airspace next to airliners in full violation of FAA regulations, but flying saucers have in regards to airliners around the globe.



I have no idea and I could only speculate, but then again, why do we send spacecraft to other moons and planets to study dirt and rocks?

I was addressing my post to the original question. one which i myself have asked several times with no satisfactory answer forth coming. 'where is the physical evidence?'
Not the radar blips, not (you'll like this morris) the fuzzy photos, not the second & third hand accounts, not the schoolboy webpage projects on the net, not the regurgitated 40 year old stories embelished over the years, not the frankly laughable vids posted on youtube, not the far out tales by dodgy sci-fi writers passed off as fact, just the plain old P H Y S I C A L evidence.

Really!?...I thought the current consensus was about 12-13 billion years(though it was 15 for a while)

Still...i suppose i've not measured it myself, so i've no proof(personally speaking of course)

I need evidence too, but of course there is a chance that some of these objects could be ET. We all want that evidence that would shut up the over the top de-bunkes and some skeptics, but at the moment, there is only evidence that maybe some of these objects "could" be ET. Some ufo cases are just plain strange. Just like the pilot sighting about a month ago where the passengers, and even another pilot in another plane saw the object, and to make it more interesting, it was tracked on radar. To me, a case like this should open many peoples eyes to the fact that some ufos are clearly a mystery. But what happens to these cases? Nothing! thats what, and i find this very annoying. Its like people refuse to accept it just because of the ET factor, when what we really should be doing is trying to find out what the hell these things are. So evidence of something strange flying in our airspace, there is so much its scary!

Radar and electronic data evidence is considered "evidence" and has been used in a court of law in the past to validate and verify events as they happened. In fact, a Hollywood movie, "Afterburn" demonstrated just how such evidence can be used to determine events and situations as they happened.

I agree with everything you say above.

I couldn't agree more. Regardless of exactly what these things may be, they are still flying around in our airspace. Even if they turn out to be just some type of unknown natural phenomena...we still need to fully investigate. Also, even if it's only a long shot that some UFOs could be ET...we still need to fully investigate (dare I repeat myself).