Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

kinesis abilties


oso

Recommended Posts

12 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

Because of the reasons I listed. And even if a cam would catch items moving, that wouldn't prove psychokinesis. Indeed, there are plenty of videos people claim to have caught of things moving "on their own." 

Well, that's sorta my point.  Your average telekinesis claimant may indeed post a video (usually a *very* unconvincing one), but as soon as we try to progress to what you might call stage 2, ie we make a few simple suggestions like scattering some shredded styrofoam beads near the thing that is moving, or using a continuous pan, showing the underside of the table and the surrounding environment.... they vanish.

Those suggestions are made in order to do two things:

- to see how serious the claimant is - if they are trolling then they are not going to bother coming back, and if they are simply self-deluding (ie being 'accidental' tricksters), then applying these tests will teach them something (perhaps something they don't wish to know...)

- to *begin* the process of eliminating deliberate tricksters, eg those using magnets, concealed blowing, fans, etc.

IF we ever got to stage 2, only then, imo, are such claimants worth taking seriously, and that might lead to a more thorough look, preferably involving some folks with experience in the area.  Those people would not necessarily have to be of the standard of a James Randi or Penn Jillette or Raymond Teller, but that is the sort of expertise required to eliminate the many tricksters.  Clearly, magicians do 'levitate' stuff, often very convincingly, but they use known tricks to do so, and they will spot what's going on if cheating is involved...

To me, that elimination process is important, as no-one can tell me there aren't both deliberate cheats and the self-deluded making the claims.  I'd like to get to the truth.  That truth, at the moment, is that there are no persons who genuinely have the power to move things (other than their own bodies, or devices with known electrical/electronic connections) solely and directly by brain power.

BTW, I'd be happy to visit anyone in my region (South East Queensland) who claims these powers and can pass stage 2, to examine and then thoroughly report on the environment in which they 'perform' to look at whether it is real or not.  I'd be utterly delighted to be involved in a successful demonstration - I've always had a space on my shelf awaiting that Nobel Prize..

Edited by ChrLzs
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
1 hour ago, ChrLzs said:

Well, that's sorta my point.  Your average telekinesis claimant may indeed post a video (usually a *very* unconvincing one), but as soon as we try to progress to what you might call stage 2, ie we make a few simple suggestions like scattering some shredded styrofoam beads near the thing that is moving, or using a continuous pan, showing the underside of the table and the surrounding environment.... they vanish.

Those suggestions are made in order to do two things:

- to see how serious the claimant is - if they are trolling then they are not going to bother coming back, and if they are simply self-deluding (ie being 'accidental' tricksters), then applying these tests will teach them something (perhaps something they don't wish to know...)

- to *begin* the process of eliminating deliberate tricksters, eg those using magnets, concealed blowing, fans, etc.

IF we ever got to stage 2, only then, imo, are such claimants worth taking seriously, and that might lead to a more thorough look, preferably involving some folks with experience in the area.  Those people would not necessarily have to be of the standard of a James Randi or Penn Jillette or Raymond Teller, but that is the sort of expertise required to eliminate the many tricksters.  Clearly, magicians do 'levitate' stuff, often very convincingly, but they use known tricks to do so, and they will spot what's going on if cheating is involved...

To me, that elimination process is important, as no-one can tell me there aren't both deliberate cheats and the self-deluded making the claims.  I'd like to get to the truth.  That truth, at the moment, is that there are no persons who genuinely have the power to move things (other than their own bodies, or devices with known electrical/electronic connections) solely and directly by brain power.

BTW, I'd be happy to visit anyone in my region (South East Queensland) who claims these powers and can pass stage 2, to examine and then thoroughly report on the environment in which they 'perform' to look at whether it is real or not.  I'd be utterly delighted to be involved in a successful demonstration - I've always had a space on my shelf awaiting that Nobel Prize..

Ok...so I've had a few things happen that have been witnessed by other people, and they happened to have taken place at times when I was under a lot of stress. It has scared those other people, as they aren't really friends or family. They're co-workers. I've tried to laugh it off and joke about "having a Carrie moment," but I know that they've been freaked out by it. 

It isn't predictable other than I have to be under tremendous stress. It has only happened a few times. Someone trying to observe it would literally have to watch me 24/7 for years to possibly see it and have a cam at the ready to record it. 

I'm just not sure how that would be feasible and affordable for anyone to really research the phenomena. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ChaosRose said:

Ok...so I've had a few things happen that have been witnessed by other people, and they happened to have taken place at times when I was under a lot of stress. It has scared those other people, as they aren't really friends or family. They're co-workers. I've tried to laugh it off and joke about "having a Carrie moment," but I know that they've been freaked out by it. 

It isn't predictable other than I have to be under tremendous stress. It has only happened a few times. Someone trying to observe it would literally have to watch me 24/7 for years to possibly see it and have a cam at the ready to record it. 

I'm just not sure how that would be feasible and affordable for anyone to really research the phenomena. 

I really appreciate your input, CR - while we have opposing viewpoints, you are a very good and polite debater, with excellent points!

I don't want to push you on what happened, but is it possible that there are things you haven't considered or even just plain coincidences that might have occurred at these times?  Or could it be that you experienced a rush of adrenaline that gave you unusual strength?

And (please don't be insulted by this!) are you taking into account the empathetic responses you may get from family/ close friends or even strangers, eg "Yes, I did see that!" ... even though they actually didn't...  People have a tendency to do that...

It's a really tricky subject and your point is a good one, but I would argue that with all the surveillance that goes on nowadays, added to what is surely a high likelihood that there should be some folks who are much better at it than others, and can demonstrate it on demand ... it just seems to me that there should be at least a couple of well-evidenced examples.  And there just aren't.

I really wish there were and, despite my skeptical nature, am still open to the possibility...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

I really appreciate your input, CR - while we have opposing viewpoints, you are a very good and polite debater, with excellent points!

I don't want to push you on what happened, but is it possible that there are things you haven't considered or even just plain coincidences that might have occurred at these times?  Or could it be that you experienced a rush of adrenaline that gave you unusual strength?

And (please don't be insulted by this!) are you taking into account the empathetic responses you may get from family/ close friends or even strangers, eg "Yes, I did see that!" ... even though they actually didn't...  People have a tendency to do that...

It's a really tricky subject and your point is a good one, but I would argue that with all the surveillance that goes on nowadays, added to what is surely a high likelihood that there should be some folks who are much better at it than others, and can demonstrate it on demand ... it just seems to me that there should be at least a couple of well-evidenced examples.  And there just aren't.

I really wish there were and, despite my skeptical nature, am still open to the possibility...

I couldn't even tell you if it's just me, or if it's the combined negative energy at stressful times. That said, the things do tend to happen when I'm around, and people do seem to think they're related to me. I tend to think that since I've experienced more stress, trauma, and tragedy than the average person, something just kicked in that causes this to happen. At least to particular people. It seems like one can only take so much, and then there's a breaking point where the stuff finds its way out of your head, somehow. Honestly, I think this is what's responsible for all or at least most phenomena that people actually experience. 

Anyway, if it is indeed some form of psychokinesis, it's unpredictable and uncontrollable...at least in this case. 

Edited by ChaosRose
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/1/2017 at 5:10 AM, Emma_Acid said:

So can you prove it or not?

 

On 6/1/2017 at 9:59 PM, Emma_Acid said:

So, we have a group of people who claim that not only can they prove the existence of psychic powers, but that the revelation would be so mundane that it wouldn't "change the world."

They claim it's already been proven, then cite an impossible-to-track down event from Russia.

Then they claim this is the starting point for gathering more evidence to support the claim (if this isn't motivated reasoning then I don't know what is).

Then when asked to prove it.... *silence*

Why is it every time I ask believers in psychic powers to put up or shut up, they choose the latter?

 

On 6/2/2017 at 6:07 AM, freetoroam said:

Buried? how could something be in a magazine and yet not be found (remember the magazine you read it in, was not the only copy).

This is quite a story, and as you are using this as evidence, you obviously were convinced by it, so I take it you have the name of the magazine?  how could an alleged event like this be able to be published and no further stories follow which involved further investigation? unless of course, it was not worth investigating. 

Lol, if either or you lived near me l would prove it!

 

And it was a New Age type magazine, but as l said before tracking down the mag, and article would take up too much of my time, (l am doing a business course, and need to keep to deadlines).

 

And as Uri Geller, has proven substantially for every paranormal act he does, to show humankind that there is something to it, there is at least one,.......that will discredit it.

 

Nothing wrong with discrediting something, but some skeptics, will go way past balanced reasoning to prove that there is nothing there.

B)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, tmcom said:

And as Uri Geller, has proven substantially for every paranormal act he does, to show humankind that there is something to it, there is at least one,.......that will discredit it.

NOT AGAIN! you really are convinced by this guy. Did you not learn anything from the other threads about him? As for the bold: he has been discredited.

, many times. 

I am certainly not going down this geller route again, you were shown before where he was discredited, if you choose to ignore it, then it really is not worth carrying on debating with anyone who is blinded by their belief to the extent that when slapped in the face with a kipper, they believe they have been handed a rose.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/3/2017 at 9:29 AM, tmcom said:

Lol, if either or you lived near me l would prove it!

You can't prove it then. If psychic powers were real, we would know. 

On 6/3/2017 at 9:29 AM, tmcom said:

And it was a New Age type magazine, but as l said before tracking down the mag, and article would take up too much of my time, (l am doing a business course, and need to keep to deadlines).

Hardly an objective source then.

On 6/3/2017 at 9:29 AM, tmcom said:

And as Uri Geller, has proven substantially for every paranormal act he does, to show humankind that there is something to it, there is at least one,.......that will discredit it.

Geller has never been shown to be anything other than a magician at best, outright fraud at worst.

On 6/3/2017 at 9:29 AM, tmcom said:

Nothing wrong with discrediting something, but some skeptics, will go way past balanced reasoning to prove that there is nothing there.

The default position has to be "there is nothing there", otherwise motivated reasoning creeps in. For something as historically important as proving the existence of psychic powers (which, despite what you think, would change biology, evolutionary theory and theology forever), the standard of evidence has to be sky high. Not "I can do it when no one's looking".

Edited by Emma_Acid
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If psychic powers were real it would introduce a need to rewrite physics. So far there are 4 known forces. It has been a dream to add a new force. There have been ideas for a 5th force from reviews of astronomical data. But only 4 forces are known to exist. There is no need to introduce a new force based on psychic claims.

If someone could move an object with their mind it would mean a 5th force exists. If someone could move an object with their mind it would mean being as famous as Newton or Einstein or Galileo because they would  be the one to cause a rewriting of physics.

But no one can demonstrate the ability. Testing shows it does not happen. That doesn't stop people from making claims. Any scientist knows that if they can show that physics needs to be rewritten they would be forever famous. No one is trying to suppress anything. No one is avoiding the opportunity of a lifetime. No one.

Edited by stereologist
hit save too early
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, stereologist said:

If psychic powers were real it would introduce a need to rewrite physics. So far there are 4 known forces. It has been a dream to add a new force. There have been ideas for a 5th force from reviews of astronomical data. But only 4 forces are known to exist.

...

That doesn't stop people from making claims. Any scientist knows that if they can show that physics needs to be rewritten they would be forever famous. No one is trying to suppress anything. No one is avoiding the opportunity of a lifetime. No one.

Hi,

Just because what does exist has not Yet been proven does not mean it can not be used by those who are aware of its presence.

By the way, there 2 unknown forces which are a strong and weak multidimensional force which will some day be studied once science has invented a quantum lens.

John

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, John from Lowell said:

Hi,

Just because what does exist has not Yet been proven does not mean it can not be used by those who are aware of its presence.

By the way, there 2 unknown forces which are a strong and weak multidimensional force which will some day be studied once science has invented a quantum lens.

John

 

I disagree. Either something exists or it does not.  It is also possible for someone to fool themselves into believing something exists.They pretend their mistake or delusion is reality.

Please tell me more about these strong and weak multidimensional forces. As far as I know all forces are multidimensional.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, John from Lowell said:

Hi,

Just because what does exist has not Yet been proven does not mean it can not be used by those who are aware of its presence.

Umm.. what?  I'd add ...

Anything that cannot be proven beyond reasonable doubt might as well not exist (or exist entirely in the mind of the believer).

You may quote me.

7 hours ago, John from Lowell said:

By the way, there 2 unknown forces which are a strong and weak multidimensional force which will some day be studied once science has invented a quantum lens.

John

Hmmm.  Links?  Also, can you please supply the correct name for the alleged forces, as 'multidimensional' force (as stereologist correctly points out) is meaningless.  That term would not be used for a new discovery by anyone with even a basic knowledge of forces.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, John from Lowell said:

Just because what does exist has not Yet been proven does not mean it can not be used by those who are aware of its presence.

A working effect does not require to be proved and explained by science first to come into effect. If homo sapiens would be capable to use/control effects like "telekinesis", 300k years of evolutionary further development would had made it a part of the daily life but it has not.

Quote

By the way, there 2 unknown forces which are a strong and weak multidimensional force which will some day be studied once science has invented a quantum lens

By the way, thats gibberish.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

For all of you trying, learning or practicing telekinesis just remember one thing, The force is not with you. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, John from Lowell said:

Just because what does exist has not Yet been proven does not mean it can not be used by those who are aware of its presence

Given how much of a scientific revolution the existence of psychic powers would be, the evidence needs to be rock solid, water tight and piled high. Not a few youtube videos of people moving bits of paper on sticks.

 

15 hours ago, John from Lowell said:

By the way, there 2 unknown forces which are a strong and weak multidimensional force which will some day be studied once science has invented a quantum lens.

Can you cite this please.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/4/2007 at 3:44 PM, oso said:

so, i'm having a hard time believing it's possible to have hydrokinesis, photokinesis, pyrokinesis, etc. The only thing that caught my attention that made me really think about it was something i saw on ripley believe it or not about the healer that can steam up tinfoil in 60 seconds. does anybody have any videos of themselves or of others that can prove that it really exists?

oso, since you asked, here you go:

Whether it's BS, legit, or whatever, you'll have to do your own homework on it.  I simply don't care enough to bother.

Edited by WoIverine
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, WoIverine said:

oso, since you asked, here you go:

Whether it's BS, legit, or whatever, you'll have to do your own homework on it.  I simply don't care enough to bother.

It's a BS video.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Kulagina

Quote

Already well underway in period immediately after World War II, this paranormal research was greatly accelerated after a woman named Ninel Kulagina appeared on Russian TV, beginning in the 1960s, moving objects with her mind. Kulagina’s feats may well have been staged (U.S. analysts couldn’t tell for sure), but she spooked them nonetheless, leading to a joint intelligence assessment by the Defense Department on the “Soviet psychoenergetic threat.” Because much of this still remains classified, it’s not always clear how high up these directives went, or who exactly was aware in all cases of how much energy was being spent on this nonsense. The picture that does emerge, though, is a Cold War government terrified that the Soviet Union was developing an edge in any technology, be it normal or paranormal, and one willing to throw money just about anywhere so long as it meant staying ahead of the Russians.

https://newrepublic.com/article/142268/united-states-government-embraced-occult

Somewhere this is a video online with James Randi doing the same thing, but he admits he is using a thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, John from Lowell said:

Just because what does exist has not Yet been proven does not mean it can not be used by those who are aware of its presence. 

This has got to be one of the most naive comments i have read in a while. If something exists...it is because we can say it does because.....IT HAS BEEN PROVEN TO. 

Anything other than that is pure speculation, wishful thinking or a scam.

thinking one has a gift...is not proof.

thinking one can feel a presence.....is not proof.

thinking......is not proof.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by freetoroam
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, WoIverine said:

oso, since you asked, here you go:

Whether it's BS, legit, or whatever, you'll have to do your own homework on it.  I simply don't care enough to bother.

The member this post is in reply to hasn't been on UM for nearly 10 years. It's an old thread.

*Closed*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • The topic was locked
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.