Did we land on the moon?

[postbaguk]

As promised.

Evaluation and Comparison of Three Space Suit Assemblies

I couldn't find the actual designation of each suit, but suit A looks very similar to the A7L so I suspect it is the prototype submitted into the competition by International Latex (the study was published in 1966). The other two are by Hamilton Standard and David Clark.

On page 51, you can see that in the angular range study, knee flexion and extension is designated movement number 14. Looking up this number in the table on page 53 shows that the knee flexion for a pressurised suit ranges from 125 degrees to 145 degrees. Suit A scored best at 145 degrees.

145 degrees knee flexion, in a forerunner of the Apollo A7L spacesuit, pressurised to 3.7 psi, achieved in 1966.

[ChrLzs]

Jackdaw, when will you be supplying the actual EVIDENCE for your claims?

And, specifically, what part of the historical record of the Lunar Rover, which covers ALL of what you have expressed 'puzzlement' over, do you dispute? Or are you just ignorant of the historical record? As a very specific example, the term 'capacity' is normally used only in conjunction with internal combustion engines - I have a newsflash for you - the LRV used 36V ~0.25HP DC motors made by Delco. DC stands for Direct Current - they were electric motors.

See how easy it is to find stuff, if you TRY? So now you need to do some work - if you are not prepared to present evidence, then you are clearly WITHDRAWING THE CLAIMS.

Also known as ... RUN AWAY and find a forum where there aren't educated folk, and who will bite on this garbage.. Maybe you could do a Youtube video!

[rambaldi]

This thread asks DID WE LAND ON THE MOON?

Answer - NO YOU DID NOT at the time you duped the world into believing that did.

End of debate.

To quote myself:

Wow, thanks for telling us. We would have never thought about that.

Seriously, you Moonhoaxers need at least to try to act like you are interested in a debate.

So far you failed.

[Eluveit]

^^ I wouldn't say they are failing considering this thread has 932 pages so far.. Just saying

[postbaguk]

As promised.

Evaluation and Comparison of Three Space Suit Assemblies

I couldn't find the actual designation of each suit, but suit A looks very similar to the A7L so I suspect it is the prototype submitted into the competition by International Latex (the study was published in 1966). The other two are by Hamilton Standard and David Clark.

On page 51, you can see that in the angular range study, knee flexion and extension is designated movement number 14. Looking up this number in the table on page 53 shows that the knee flexion for a pressurised suit ranges from 125 degrees to 145 degrees. Suit A scored best at 145 degrees.

145 degrees knee flexion, in a forerunner of the Apollo A7L spacesuit, pressurised to 3.7 psi, achieved in 1966.

Confirmation that suit A is indeed the International Latex space suit prototype.

http://archive.org/details/S65-38750

Test subject James H. O'Kane, Apollo Support Office, Crew Systems Div., wears a International Latex Co., prototype Apollo Lunar Space Suit during tests.

[ChrLzs]

^^ I wouldn't say they are failing considering this thread has 932 pages so far.. Just saying

Umm, you did see the bit about "Merged x15", and the date (Mar '07) of the first post? And you do know that the Apollo project was not only huge and complex, but also involved a lot of things that are not in the average joe's experience (eg vacuum, low gravity, big rockets, etc) and so will present lots of things that the ill-informed will think are anomalous..? And that it therefore affords a big opportunity for scammers and the hater-folk who decry the occasional time when mankind actually achieves something amazing, 'specially when it's the evil gubmint/USA that managed it..?

Just sayin'...

[booNyzarC]

As promised.

Evaluation and Comparison of Three Space Suit Assemblies

I couldn't find the actual designation of each suit, but suit A looks very similar to the A7L so I suspect it is the prototype submitted into the competition by International Latex (the study was published in 1966). The other two are by Hamilton Standard and David Clark.

On page 51, you can see that in the angular range study, knee flexion and extension is designated movement number 14. Looking up this number in the table on page 53 shows that the knee flexion for a pressurised suit ranges from 125 degrees to 145 degrees. Suit A scored best at 145 degrees.

145 degrees knee flexion, in a forerunner of the Apollo A7L spacesuit, pressurised to 3.7 psi, achieved in 1966.

Confirmation that suit A is indeed the International Latex space suit prototype.

http://archive.org/details/S65-38750

Test subject James H. O'Kane, Apollo Support Office, Crew Systems Div., wears a International Latex Co., prototype Apollo Lunar Space Suit during tests.

Good stuff Posty

Any predictions for how turbs is going to hand wave this great information away?

[postbaguk]

Good stuff Posty

Any predictions for how turbs is going to hand wave this great information away?

You called it right: by hand-waving. I guess he'll just stick to his guns and insist that 'greater mobility' implies 'greater knee flexion', regardless of the plethora of evidence that shatters his personal myth. Of course, I could be wrong. He might take the intellectually honest way out of this. He might admit he's mistaken and withdraw his false claim. However, I don't recall that ever happening in the past, and doubt very much it will happen here.

[MID]

Turbonium- I applaud your zest and enthusiasm for the truth.

If he had any, he would've long ago given up the intllectual laziness that you seem to posess in abundance, and would've learned something.

Waspie Dwawf - you are an asset to the hoax believers.

This thread asks DID WE LAND ON THE MOON?

Answer - NO YOU DID NOT at the time you duped the world into believing that did.

End of debate.

If you did . . . . . . then prove it :-D

And apparently, you embrace that lack of knowledge and intellectual laziness fully.

But still--I am detecting that possibly you might be interested in knowing something...really learning...despite the fact that the only burden of proof that exists on this thread is with HB, who accuses the UNITED STATES of faking the most documented scientific and technical accomplishment in human history. You, along with people like Turbonium, have the burden of proving your contention...not us.

You should get used to the painful truth that you, nor Turbs, nor any HB, can possibly prove their ridiculous contention.

Rather, you can simply make baseless, ridiculous statements, such as you did above, and in doing so, illustrate your lack of subject matter knowledge. Hallmarks of the HB: Intelectual laziness, a failure to research and learn, and a propensity to ignore information given to you...especially when you're back's against a wall and you know you can't continue and save face.

Yet somehow, something's telling me you just might be interested in learning something..

I don't know. The possibility is pleasing to think about. Let's see....

And

[MID]

And not with fluttering flags

Fluttering flags? Are you sopeaking to flags that were seen moving when men were moving them?

As has been opointed out to you, the issue has long since been killed on this thread and others.

fake moon rocks

There's one of those baseles declaration you're going to have to prove.

Show me the fake 800+ pounds of scientifically confirmed lunar rock and soil smples.

You don't have to--because you can't, I know. Doing a little work on your own would help your understanding of the regolith samples returned between July 1969 and December, 1972.

or touched up photos or a moon buggy that has no tracks or footprints around it?...

You'er rapidly becoming a time-waster. Show me that stuff.

as to how it got there or was built etc etc etc

re you really interested in knowing this stuff?

How it got there:

In Quad 4 of the LM's descent stage (it was bout 465 lbs of additional mass for the LM.)

How it was built:

Perhaps you could contact Boeing out in Washington for some documentation, or avail yourself of the copious technical information available on-line today regarding this piece of genius engineering.

[MID]

And please explain why there is a pic on the net or web of a footprint that does not match the so called landing on the moon and the giant step for mankind?

i.e. differing tread pattern to the so called astronauts?

Maybe its print was made by an over excited stage hand?

You mean this one?

In fact, slow down and make your syntax make some sense. "...doesn't match the so-called landing on the Moon and the giant step???"

I'm not sure what that means.

That's a photo taken by Buzz Aldrin (AS11-40-5877).

Here's his picture of himself making the impression (AS11-40-5880):

The photo was made for specialists back in Houston who were going to be doing soil mechanics studies...

Wanna show me how that tread pattern is different from the one on Buzz's right lunar overshoe sole...or any lunar overshoe sole?

So maybe explain what you're actually talking about here?

OH...it was a "small step...a giant leap..."

I know you probably weren't around then (HB's, as a rule, are too young for that, geenerally speaking. Although there have been a few who've been older people. Generally, they're daft, or damaged through some sort of abuse or mental impairment (See, Kaysing, William, Rene, Ralph)

Oh, of course, "why is this photo there?"

Gee. Kinda hard to explain, but the 1400 + Hasselblad photos taken during the Apollo 11 mission by the crew are now public record and are, along with the other maybe 18,000 images from the other midssions, available.

Only reason I can think of.

[Czero 101]

Thanks for the info, MID, but it appears as though Jackdaw is just wasting our time...

Cz

Edited April 16, 2012 by Czero 101

[Jackdaw]

You mean this one?

In fact, slow down and make your syntax make some sense. "...doesn't match the so-called landing on the Moon and the giant step???"

I'm not sure what that means.

That's a photo taken by Buzz Aldrin (AS11-40-5877).

Here's his picture of himself making the impression (AS11-40-5880):

The photo was made for specialists back in Houston who were going to be doing soil mechanics studies...

Wanna show me how that tread pattern is different from the one on Buzz's right lunar overshoe sole...or any lunar overshoe sole?

So maybe explain what you're actually talking about here?

OH...it was a "small step...a giant leap..."

I know you probably weren't around then (HB's, as a rule, are too young for that, geenerally speaking. Although there have been a few who've been older people. Generally, they're daft, or damaged through some sort of abuse or mental impairment (See, Kaysing, William, Rene, Ralph)

Oh, of course, "why is this photo there?"

Gee. Kinda hard to explain, but the 1400 + Hasselblad photos taken during the Apollo 11 mission by the crew are now public record and are, along with the other maybe 18,000 images from the other midssions, available.

Only reason I can think of.

Daft? Damaged through abuse? Mentally impaired? - I sincerely hope that you were not having a snipe at the younger generation of today who are far more inquisitive for TRUTH than a Sixties child? . . . . and join Forums such as this daily in their quest?

And . . .May I remind you of Waspie Dwarfs earlier post re UM rules and replies?

Such regulations apply to you . . . . and your buddies?

Now . . . when are we going to do a poll on UM and its 104, 019 members as to the question -

DID WE LAND ON THE MOON?

One member = One vote

Edited April 17, 2012 by Jackdaw

[Czero 101]

Now . . . when are we going to do a poll on UM and its 104, 019 members as to the question -

DID WE LAND ON THE MOON?

One member = One vote

When are you going to actually post the evidence regarding this:

And please explain why there is a pic on the net or web of a footprint that does not match the so called landing on the moon and the giant step for mankind?

A picture or a link to back up your assertion that this "evidence" exists is all we're asking for.

Surely that's not too much, is it?

Cz

Edited April 16, 2012 by Czero 101

[ChrLzs]

Maybe he needs something colourful and big, to understand...

Jackdaw, is there some reason - other than the blindingly obvious - why you keep trying to distract from the fact that YOU HAVE NOT BACKED UP ANY OF THE CLAIMS YOU HAVE MADE?

If you are perhaps suffering from inability to remember or use the page navigation controls, on my next post I shall repeat the claims YOU HAVE NOT BACKED UP

... and will continue to do so.

Also, would you mind CROPPING your quotes to remove that which you are running away from not addressing, so as not to waste bandwidth? That's pretty basic forum etiquette.

Thanks (in advance) for contributing to the forum in a useful way.

[skyeagle409]

Daft? Damaged through abuse? Mentally impaired? - I sincerely hope that you were not having a snipe at the younger generation of today who are far more inquisitive for TRUTH than a Sixties child? . . . .

Giant technological leaps of the 1960s are what placed men on the moon.

Edited April 17, 2012 by skyeagle409

[skyeagle409]

Now. . . please explain the moon buggy to our readers, believers and hoaxers.

The Apollo Lunar Roving Vehicle

The Lunar Roving Vehicle (LRV) was an electric vehicle designed to operate in the low-gravity vacuum of the Moon and to be capable of traversing the lunar surface, allowing the Apollo astronauts to extend the range of their surface extravehicular activities. Three LRVs were driven on the Moon, one on Apollo 15 by astronauts David Scott and Jim Irwin, one on Apollo 16 by John Young and Charles Duke, and one on Apollo 17 by Gene Cernan and Harrison Schmitt. Each rover was used on three traverses, one per day over the three day course of each mission. On Apollo 15 the LRV was driven a total of 27.8 km in 3 hours, 2 minutes of driving time. The longest single traverse was 12.5 km and the maximum range from the LM was 5.0 km. On Apollo 16 the vehicle traversed 26.7 km in 3 hours 26 minutes of driving. The longest traverse was 11.6 km and the LRV reached a distance of 4.5 km from the LM. On Apollo 17 the rover went 35.9 km in 4 hours 26 minutes total drive time. The longest traverse was 20.1 km and the greatest range from the LM was 7.6 km.

The Lunar Roving Vehicle had a mass of 210 kg and was designed to hold a payload of an additional 490 kg on the lunar surface. The frame was 3.1 meters long with a wheelbase of 2.3 meters. The maximum height was 1.14 meters. The frame was made of aluminum alloy 2219 tubing welded assemblies and consisted of a 3 part chassis which was hinged in the center so it could be folded up and hung in the Lunar Module quad 1 bay. It had two side-by-side foldable seats made of tubular aluminum with nylon webbing and aluminum floor panels. An armrest was mounted between the seats, and each seat had adjustable footrests and a velcro seatbelt. A large mesh dish antenna was mounted on a mast on the front center of the rover. The suspension consisted of a double horizontal wishbone with upper and lower torsion bars and a damper unit between the chassis and upper wishbone. Fully loaded the LRV had a ground clearance of 36 cm.

The wheels consisted of a spun aluminum hub and an 81.8 cm diameter, 23 cm wide tire made of zinc coated woven 0.083 cm diameter steel strands attached to the rim and discs of formed aluminum. Titanium chevrons covered 50% of the contact area to provide traction. Inside the tire was a 64.8 cm diameter bump stop frame to protect the hub. Dust guards were mounted above the wheels. Each wheel had its own electric drive, a DC series wound 0.25 hp motor capable of 10,000 rpm, attached to the wheel via an 80:1 harmonic drive, and a mechanical brake unit. Manuevering capability was provided through the use of front and rear steering motors. Each series wound DC steering motor was capable of 0.1 hp. Both sets of wheels would turn in opposite directions, giving a steering radius of 3.1 meters, or could be decoupled so only one set would be used for steering. Power was provided by two 36-volt silver-zinc potassium hydroxide non-rechargeable batteries with a capacity of 121 amp-hr. These were used to power the drive and steering motors and also a 36 volt utility outlet mounted on front of the LRV to power the communications relay unit or the TV camera. Passive thermal controls kept the batteries within an optimal temperature range.

A T-shaped hand controller situated between the two seats controlled the four drive motors, two steering motors and brakes. Moving the stick forward powered the LRV forward, left and right turned the vehicle left or right, pulling backwards activated the brakes. Activating a switch on the handle before pulling back would put the LRV into reverse. Pulling the handle all the way back activated a parking brake. The control and display modules were situated in front of the handle and gave information on the speed, heading, pitch, and power and temperature levels. Navigation was based on continuously recording direction and distance through use of a directional gyro and odometer and inputting this data to a computer which would keep track of the overall direction and distance back to the LM. There was also a Sun-shadow device which could give a manual heading based on the direction of the Sun, using the fact that the Sun moved very slowly in the sky. The image at left shows a diagram of the layout of the control and display module, the Sun-shadow device is at top center between the heading and speed readouts.

Deployment of the LRV from the LM quad 1 by the astronauts was achieved with a system of pulleys and braked reels using ropes and cloth tapes. The rover was folded and stored in quad 1 with the underside of the chassis facing out. One astronaut would climb the egress ladder on the LM and release the rover, which would then be slowly tilted out by the second astronaut on the ground through the use of reels and tapes. As the rover was let down from the bay most of the deployment was automatic. The rear wheels folded out and locked in place and when they touched the ground the front of the rover could be unfolded, the wheels deployed, and the entire frame let down to the surface by pulleys. The rover components locked into place upon opening. Cabling, pins, and tripods would then be removed and the seats and footrests raised. After switching on all the electronics the vehicle was ready to back away from the LM. The image at right shows an earlier version of the planned deployment which does not exactly match the final sequence, note for example that the rover is facing away from the LM after deployment.

The original cost-plus-incentive-fee contract to Boeing (with Delco as a major sub-contractor) was for $19 million and called for delivery of the first LRV by 1 April 1971, but cost overruns led to a final cost of $38 million. Four lunar rovers were built, one each for Apollos 15, 16, qnd 17, and one that was used for spare parts after the cancellation of further Apollo missions. There were other LRV models built: a static model to assist with human factors design, an engineering model to design and integrate the subsystems, two 1/6 gravity models for testing the deployment mechanism, a 1-gravity trainer to give the astronauts instruction in the operation of the rover and allow them to practice driving it, a mass model to test the effect of the rover on the LM structure, balance and handling, a vibration test unit to study the LRV's durability and handling of launch stresses, and a qualification test unit to study integration of all LRV subsystems. The LRV was developed in only 17 months and yet performed all its functions on the Moon with no major anomalies. Harrison Schmitt of Apollo 17 said, "....the Lunar Rover proved to be the reliable, safe and flexible lunar exploration vehicle we expected it to be. Without it, the major scientific discoveries of Apollo 15, 16, and 17 would not have been possible; and our current understanding of lunar evolution would not have been possible."

My link

Apollo 15

Landing site: Hadley-Apennine region near Apennine Mountains. 3 EVAs of 10 hours, 36 minutes. Worden performed 38 minutes EVA on way back to Earth. First to carry orbital sensors in service module of CSM. ALSEP deployed. Scientific payload landed on Moon doubled. Improved spacesuits gave increased mobility and stay-time.

Lunar surface stay-time: 66.9 hours. Lunar Roving Vehicle (LRV), electric-powered, 4-wheel drive car, traversed total 27.9 km (17 mi). In lunar orbit 145 hours, with 74 orbits. Small sub-satellite left in lunar orbit for first time. 76.6 kgs (169 lbs) of material gathered.

My link

...- how did it get to the moon?

A picture is worth a thousand words.

http://www-pao.ksc.n...5/apollo-15.htm

This picture is worth another thousand words.

Edited April 17, 2012 by skyeagle409

[ChrLzs]

and a couple more thousand on its stowage..

How's this all working out for you, Jackdaw?

[SolarPlexus]

Wow this thread never ends. The thing is, NASA filmed *some* scenes in the desert but only a few. This led people to believe that the entire program is a hoax, but it is not. We did went on the moon.

[booNyzarC]

Wow this thread never ends. The thing is, NASA filmed *some* scenes in the desert but only a few. This led people to believe that the entire program is a hoax, but it is not. We did went on the moon.

Wow.

Glad to see you're still kicking SolarPlexus. Haven't seen you in.... how long? A year maybe? Welcome back.

I'm also glad to see that you concur that "we did went on the moon." But I am curious about these alleged scenes from the desert. Can you please point out specifically which scenes you are referring to? A link to the footage would be preferable.

Cheers.

[Czero 101]

I think he could be referring to the training that was done in the desert since it was a close match to the terrain that was expected to be found on the Moon. Some images can be found in the galleries here:

The Incredible Things NASA Did to Train Apollo Astronauts

There are others, too. A simple Google search should yield several results. I don't know which specific videos he was referring to, though...

Cz

[Czero 101]

Confirmation that suit A is indeed the International Latex space suit prototype.

http://archive.org/details/S65-38750

Test subject James H. O'Kane, Apollo Support Office, Crew Systems Div., wears a International Latex Co., prototype Apollo Lunar Space Suit during tests.

Postie...

I searching for a link for my last post, I came across this article which I think might also be relevant to the Space Suit discussion:

How to Maneuver in a Space Suit Using the ‘Apollo Number’

Here's a quote from the article:

“Being in a space suit is like being inside a balloon,” Carr said. “When you take a balloon and bend it, it wants to spring back into its original state.” That springiness comes from the pressurized breathing gases inside the suit, which make the garments quite stiff but also help support their weight. The bounce helps astronauts bound from leg to leg as they run, and it encourages a third kind of gait called loping, which looks like a modified version of skipping.

Without extra support from the gas-filled suit, combined with the moon’s lower gravity, astronauts could never have maneuvered in their 220-pound exoskeletons. But the self-supporting suits have disadvantages as well: While running in a suit is easier, it’s a lot harder to walk or bend over to pick things up, as shown in the video of astronaut Charles Duke below.

...

“For sure, we need to have a lower mass suit,” Carr said, “to achieve self-support.” One possibility would be to use a nylon-spandex suit that applies pressure, he said, instead of filling the suits with a pressurized bag of gas.

Although there are improvements to be made, Carr said he has tremendous respect for the designers who created the Apollo suits. “It’s 1960s technology, but there has really been a ton of detailed design work that’s gone into the the space suits to make them comfortable,” he said. “This is literally a small spacecraft.”

Cz

[booNyzarC]

I think he could be referring to the training that was done in the desert since it was a close match to the terrain that was expected to be found on the Moon. Some images can be found in the galleries here:

The Incredible Things NASA Did to Train Apollo Astronauts

There are others, too. A simple Google search should yield several results. I don't know which specific videos he was referring to, though...

Cz

I certainly hope those images aren't what he was referring to...

Good information though. The preparations for Apollo really left almost nothing to question. Quite inspiring in terms of how things should be done if you ask me. I wish more would follow NASA's example when it comes to preparation and training.

[Waspie_Dwarf]

Maybe UM should do a poll on DID WE LAND ON THE MOON using its over 100, 000 members?

What exactly do you think that will achieve? Since when is scientific truth determined by an opinion poll? It is determined by the weight of evidence. That evidence convinced all the relevant authorities of the authenticity of the Apollo landings more than 4 decades ago. Since that time there has been not a single piece of evidence which has cast doubt on the authenticity of Apollo. Not one.

If you think a poll will help feel free, start one. But maybe you should know the results of the previous polls on this subject before you do so.

This poll from 2003: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6722&st=0&p=267502&hl=apollo%20hoax&fromsearch=1entry267502 found that over 63% of members that voted believed the landings to be genuine. Those that voted against include 12.2% that agreed landings were impossible because the moon is made of cheese.

There is this poll from 2005: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=44316&mode=show&st= found that nearly 66% of members that voted believed that the landings were genuine. Those that disagreed included10% that voted for a totally blank option.

Then there is this poll from 2006: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=72159&hl=apollo%20hoax&st=0 here 68% believed that the landings were genuine.

Now given that this is not a scientific site, encourages alternative views and has a very active conspiracies section I would expect a higher level of belief in the hoax theory than in the population at large.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Waspie_Dwarf
typos

[ChrLzs]

Jackdaw, further to Waspie's comments, where do you think you would get the most useful poll results?

From a conspiracy site? A site devoted to unravelling mysteries? A street poll? An education forum? A science forum? A space science forum?

Out of interest, there's a poll on JREF right now that you might want to look at..

JREF Apollo Hoax poll

Oh .. dear ... I think you better get on over there and start banging your drum, and adding another vote for the hoax believers. After all, that will DOUBLE their vote..

Anyway, do start up your poll.