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DreamRebel

Reason US went to War: to stop Evil Biology & Chem

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Yes, it is all rather scary in my opinion. It all reminds me of 1984...The US government is out of control and willing to lie to the world so that it can carry out whatever tasks it feels like doing at the time. The constitution means next to nothing to these people...

It is sad to see how far this country has devolved in such a short time.

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Although I am no fan of Mr Ashcroft, to be fair he doesn't actually say that biology and chemistry are 'evil'.

He says that the brand of biology and chemistry that Saddam was purportedly capable of using was 'evil'.

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The thing is that Saddam would not have been able to use or get these weapons with the sanctions in place and inspections.So how much of a threat would he have been?? Is it ok to invade a country on the possibility that these weapons could be made in the distant future??Why is it ok in one place and not another and who decides?? The U.S. or the UN??

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Why is it ok in one place and not another and who decides?? The U.S. or the UN??

The UN apparently can't decide on anything substantial. How many times can

you tell a rebellious child to 'please stop doing that', before a spanking becomes

necessary?

Besides, the UN wasn't attacked on 9/11 The U.S. was. So as a matter of

self-defense........the U.S. gets to decide. original.gif

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Besides, the UN wasn't attacked on 9/11 The U.S. was. So as a matter of

self-defense........the U.S. gets to decide.

I actually agree with you in theory. Problem is that there was no link between Iraq and al queda. Seems that may have been...a misunderstanding...that didn't come out until after Iraq was in ruins(more ruins anyway)

Oopsie!, but a conviently time oopsie...our bad!

That, combined with the Weapons of Mass Destruction that Saddam doesn't seem to have make the US look really bad in the eyes of the rest of the world...

We are making the rest of the world a bit jumpy for good cause. That is great if you want to make everyone think that you are the tough kid on the block; bad if you would like to have good healthy relations with other countries. Something that we desperately need with our questionable economy.

As glad as I am that Saddam is in US custody, and out of power, it still doesn't make it right in my opinion. "Pre-Emptive Strikes" can cut both ways, and makes for a planet full of jumpy nations. We have a huge military and are powerful, and our willingness to jump into war is going to have long term effects on how our country is viewed.

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"Pre-Emptive Strikes" can cut both ways, and makes for a planet full of jumpy nations. We have a huge military and are powerful, and our willingness to jump into war is going to have long term effects on how our country is viewed.

I think though that it all has to be viewed through the eyes of

The Bush Doctrine: If you are a terrorist, we will come after you.

If you harbor terrorists, we will come after you.

What the world thinks in the short run is, I think, unimportant.

History in the long run will judge everything and it really depends ultimately

on wether we actually rid the world of evil terrorists....if that is even

possible.

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The thing is that Saddam would not have been able to use or get these weapons with the sanctions in place and inspections.

ahem, that is a load of crap, the sanctions were only hurting the civilians because Saddam refused to help them out, and Saddam kept p***ing the inspectors around.

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So bathory where are these weapons then?? You know the ones that were supposed to be ready to fire at the rest of the world in fourty five minutes??

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I want to just say firstly, I am just not sure whether we did the right thing invadng iraq.

There are just so many arguments for both sides i just cant decide which one to side with.

On a humanitarian level i believe gettin rid of that evil man was a great thing. On a political, legal and for the furute of world politics i do not believe it was a wise decision. Especially bypassing the UN, i believe bush and blair mad a grave mistake in doin that

Besides, the UN wasn't attacked on 9/11 The U.S. was. So as a matter of

self-defense........the U.S. gets to decide.

Joc, consistently you seem to be making statements which you dont seem to fully understand.

Iraq did not in fact attack American that terrible day, Alqueda did.

There is NO proof whatsoever that iraq had anything even in the slightest to do with it. Also bin laden hated saddam and wanted rid off him too, saddam was not running a strict moslem state, this meant bin laden did not idealogically support him and had indicated the overthrowing of his baathist regime.

so your childlike "we'll do whatever we want" attitude is exactly the reason the rest of the world takes in a deep breathe every time Bush talks about terrorism and his"axis of evil".

The problem is you dont seem to understand that although you do live in the most powerful country in the world that there are 6 billion people on this planet and only 260 million of them are american. How can you say you dont care what the rest of us think.That is a very insular and silly attitude to have.

What terrorists were they harbouring Joc?

I am a decently educated person who wont ever lower myself to "look through the eyes" of bush. He has shown himself do have inadequate knowledge of this planet to be in charge of such power.

I only hope the American people do the right thing and get rid of him at the next election thumbsup.gif

BAthory is dead right about the sanctions.

It was saddam that was starving his people not our sanctions. He and his regime lived a life of unmatched luxury while millions where dyin he squandered his subsidies (which were supposed to be used to give food and healthcare to the people) on luxurious palaces and subversive weapons research which whether he actually had the weapons or not he was researching.

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Especially bypassing the UN, i believe bush and blair mad a grave mistake in doin that

We didn't bypass the UN, we gave them every opportunity to take action. They simply refused.

Iraq did not in fact attack American that terrible day, Alqueda did.

I didn't say Iraq attacked us. I said it was the US who was attacked, not the UN.

There  is NO proof whatsoever that iraq had anything even in the slightest to do with it.

There actually is proof that Iraqi high officials met with Al Queda leaders prior

to 9/11.

Also bin laden hated saddam and wanted rid off him too, saddam was not running a strict moslem state, this meant bin laden did not idealogically support him and had indicated the overthrowing of his baathist regime.

You say you are an intelligent guy, but do you seriously believe this?! The notion

that Ben Laden was a devout Muslim is proposterous! He used the religion of Islam

to accomplish his objectives. His reasons for what he did changed with the wind.

How can you say you dont care what the rest of us think.That is a very insular and silly attitude to have.

It isn't that I don't care what you think (it is obvious that I do). As President

Bush said in his State of the Union address, we will never ask the world's

permission to defend ourselves. What the world thinks is inconsequential in

how we deal with defending ourselves. History will judge us in the end.

What terrorists were they harbouring Joc?

Well, for one. The Palestinian guerrilla leader who masterminded the 1985 hijacking of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro, was captured in Baghdad by U.S. Special Operations troops. It was either he or some other high ranking terrorist

who was captured in an Iraqi hospital having surgery.

I am a decently educated person who wont ever lower myself to "look through the eyes" of bush. He has shown himself do have inadequate knowledge of this planet to be in charge of such power.

*...shakes head as he walks away...*

It was saddam that was starving his people not our sanctions. He and his regime lived a life of unmatched luxury while millions where dyin he squandered his subsidies (which were supposed to be used to give food and healthcare to the people) on luxurious palaces and subversive weapons research which whether he actually had the weapons or not he was researching.

Exactly right! And the food for oil program scam hosted by the UN was directly

responsible for that.

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If you didnt say Iraq attacked you then whats the point in attacking iraq?

It is a widespread fact that bin laden for whatever reason wanted rid of saddam hussein whether it be religious or for oil to hold the west ransom what i said was true.

I think you'll find we did bypass the UN??????????

They didnt refuse to take action either, They just didnt take the action in the time frame that our leaders wanted. Who are we to say they were wrong?

How was America and the UK defending ourselves by attacking Iraq?

These are important questions.

I never at any point attempted to say that bin laden was a devout moslem, what are you talking about? I mean if your gonna argue with one of my points at least try to understand what i was saying 1st.

Why are you allowed an opinion on another country's leader yet when i comment on america's leader you act as if ive committed some sort of crime. Bush has been proven time and time again to have insuffciant knowledge of world politics never mind geography. Come on you must be able to admit that. He couldnt name the president of chechnya when he was trying to say that the russian offensive there was wrong!!

Ok so one terrorist that they found in a hospital constitutes invading a sovereign country ok thumbsup.gif

BTW we werent so keen to invade them in the 80's when this guy committed his crime, I wonder why?........ oh thats it because we were supplying iraq with weapons and training. The same weapons he used on the kurds.

Dont you understand that when america goes all over the world attcking countries whenever it feels like it that this affects the rest of us and that america has a responsibility to face up to the fact that theyre actions can cause harm to innocent people.

What does "history will judge us in the end mean"? How does this help validate what we did just now? Hitler and Himler may have said that at one point it doesnt mean what they did was right.( im not comparing blair and bush to those two BTW)

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If you didnt say Iraq attacked you then whats the point in attacking iraq?

Okay I'm just going to take off the gloves here and say what needs to

be said...

...Iraq should have been taken out a long time ago! Fact of the matter is

President Clinton was more interested in (removed) than in defending our

country.

It is a well known fact that Sadaam tried to assasinate Bush SR. That is enough

right there to take him out. Sadaam was once a "friend" but that all changed with time. When he invaded Kuwait we should have taken him out.

It wasn't prudent to do so at the time.

Since the Gulf War he has shot at our airplanes on a daily basis. Clinton didn't

have the balls to do anything about it. Thank God Bush does.

Don't buy into the media crapola campaign that Bush is a dolt. He isn't. He

does in fact possess an incredible memory. Guys he flew with in the National

Guard were amazed at his memory with respect to flight plans and such. The guy is a genius.

Ok so one terrorist that they found in a hospital constitutes invading a sovereign country ok 

Damn right!

Dont you understand that when america goes all over the world attcking countries whenever it feels like it that this affects the rest of us and that america has a responsibility to face up to the fact that theyre actions can cause harm to innocent people.

Don't you understand that this is all in the interest of self-defense? And what countries are you talking about?! Who else have we attacked? The Faulklen Islands? ahem

Lets face it. The US is not an imperialist nation. If we wanted we could take

over the entire world. If we wanted the middle east oil, we would just take it.

Starting with Kuwait. We are DEFENDING OURSELVES! And together with your

country and the many, many others joining us....we will overcome terrorism...

and the world will be safer for it........and history will judge that we did the

right thing, not the wrong thing.

Thankyou for listening......

.............................................off to work!

Edited by Aslan

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LOL am sory but describing george bush (a man who was out-witted by a pretsel) as a genious is just priceless.

LOL comparing the war in iraq with our war against Argentina over the FALKLAND ISLANDS is hilarious too. Come on argentina attacked our sovereign land and we fought back wit a country attempting to invade our land.

LOL am sure america could just waltz into China and russia and for that matter the rest of the world and we would all just put our hands up and beg for mercy.

Im gonna need to do some research but as with britain am sure america will be harbouring people taht other countries describe as terrorists. If true are you gonna invade yourselves.

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...Iraq should have been taken out a long time ago! Fact of the matter is President Clinton was more interested in (removed) than in defending our country.

Oh joc...I was holding out hope for you... tongue.gif

We didn't bypass the UN, we gave them every opportunity to take action.  They simply refused.

We didn't give them every opportunity. Bush waited as long as he wanted to, then he bypassed the UN resolutions.

There actually is proof that Iraqi high officials met with Al Queda leaders prior to 9/11.

Do you have a link to this proof? I'd love to see it.

As President Bush said in his State of the Union address, we will never ask the world's permission to defend ourselves.  What the world thinks is inconsequential in how we deal with defending ourselves. 

How were we defending ourselves joc? really, I'd love to know?

How was iraq an imminent threat to our safety? With their WMD? The ones we were so sure about? Sure enough to go to war and kill thousands of people, yet we can't find a trace of the weapons we were so sure about?

Maybe it was all of the terrorist links and terrorists that they were harboring? Oops, that was a mistake/lie too.

joc, I don't think you understand that we forced a war on another country for reasons that ended up being untrue (at the best), or downright lies (at the worst).

All of our "allies"(I use the term loosely as a majority never sent any troops) agreed to support us based on the "evidence" that Bush spewed to the world. On our countries word. Do you understand that? Being from Texas I think you do.

Our word ended up being lies and untruths.

It is obvious by the tone of your posts that the rest of the world doesn't seem to mean much to you, but this is quickly becomming a world economy.

We will crumble like the last days of Rome if we do not learn how to play well with others.

Our economy cannot survive years of world investors walking away from us like they have in the past couple of years. As a country we look like a bunch of trigger happy zealots, and the world does not trust us like they once did. Our economy shows those signs today, and if Bush gets re-elected, it will only get worse. Have you seen what the dollar is worth on the market lately? How about the defecit? Half a trillion dollars sound familiar?

Bush made a horrible mistake, and every US citizen will pay for it in one way or another.

History will judge us in the end.

The sad part is that it already has started to judge us. It isn't a pretty judgement.

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BTW i just wanna add i have a lot of respect for the American people.

It is your leaders I have a problem with and i also believe that bush's election was a sham, if you look at the many stories of people being prevented from voting then you'll realise what i am saying isnt that hard to believe.

Joc the way you post just re-afirms the world's views on the american people as a bunch of "gung-ho" war mongerers. This i believe isnt the case but you are constantly chipping away at my confidence in that.

Please don't fall head over heels for the propoganda that you are being fed.

Dont get me wrong one of my closest friends is of iraqi descent and he had family over there. He was overjoyed at his downfall and so was I, we just didnt go about it the right way.

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How were we defending ourselves joc? really, I'd love to know?

How was iraq an imminent threat to our safety?

We are defending ourselves Fluff, by killing those who want to kill us before they get a chance to. Bush never said Iraq was an imminent threat. He said they were a grave and gathering danger. And do you doubt that?

joc, I don't think you understand that we forced a war on another country for reasons that ended up being untrue (at the best), or downright lies (at the worst).

Fluff, I don’t think you understand that we didn’t force war upon Iraq. Sadaam Hussein forced war. Are we about to go to war with Libya? No. Why? Because

Momar Quadafe saw what happened when you play cat and mouse games with someone who is dead serious about consequences. How easily the world forgets the games and taunts of Sadaam and how easily the world buys the propaganda from the left.

It is obvious by the tone of your posts that the rest of the world doesn't seem to mean much to you, but this is quickly becomming a world economy.

Saying that the rest of the world doesn’t mean anything to me, and saying that the worlds opinion when it comes to our national defense is irrelevant are not the same thing. I do care about the rest of the world. I want a peaceful globe Fluff, not one that is constantly being ripped and torn apart by terrorists.

We will crumble like the last days of Rome if we do not learn how to play well with others.

blink.gif

We will certainly crumble if we don’t destroy those who have declared war on us.

Bush made a horrible mistake, and every US citizen will pay for it in one way or another.

Wrong! Sadaam made a horrible mistake and he and his cohorts have paid, are paying and will continue to pay for it. We in the USA and the rest of the world will only benefit from this.

BTW i just wanna add i have a lot of respect for the American people.

It is your leaders I have a problem with and i also believe that bush's election was a sham, if you look at the many stories of people being prevented from voting then you'll realise what i am saying isnt that hard to believe.

Bush’s election wasn’t a sham. The despicable road that was traveled down to the supreme court was perpetrated by Al Gore ( a leftist communist in my opinion). The leaders you should have had a problem with were the ones who let this mess evolve into what it became. Firstly, the entire Clinton administration. Secondly France and Germany and Russia who sought economic means over world security.

Joc the way you post just re-afirms the world's views on the american people as a bunch of "gung-ho" war mongerers. This i believe isnt the case but you are constantly chipping away at my confidence in that.

If you think defending ourselves is war-mongering so be it. Prior to 9/11 who were we attacking exactly? Don’t you people understand the depth of what 9/11 means?! Don't you see what is going on around the globe? In Israel? In Indonesia? Can't you understand that it really is World War 3. That we all have a vested interest in defeating these terrorists?

Please don't fall head over heels for the propoganda that you are being fed.

Someone here is certainly eating up the propaganda of the Leftist Press Machine.

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Someone here is certainly eating up the propaganda of the Leftist Press Machine.

Sounds like a dittohead to me... rolleyes.gif

btw, I am not a leftist. I am actually a libertarian...

We are defending ourselves Fluff, by killing those who want to kill us before they get a chance to.  Bush never said Iraq was an imminent threat.  He said they were a grave and gathering danger.    And do you doubt that? 

That arguement sounds like are reason to attack anyone that offends us. Aside from the fact that IRAQ didn't have to military power to attack The US, the semantics of imminent vs. grave and gathering danger doesn't really matter, and if anything goes to show that there was time to deal with Iraq in other methods that didn't require our killing thousands of innocent people.

Do I believe that they were a danger? not enough to warrant killing our soldiers over, no...

Fluff, I don’t think you understand that we didn’t force war upon Iraq.  Sadaam Hussein forced war.

Wow, you swallowed that one hook, line, and sinker. I guess it is easy to see the "right wing" propaganda. Bush was the one that set the date for the start of the war. The Weapons inspector couldn't even finish their inspections and were pulled out of the country because Bush was so sure that Saddam had WMD.

Which we haven't found.

We will certainly  crumble if we don’t destroy those who have declared war on us.

I didn't know Iraq declared war before we did. Al-queda did, but they had nothing to do with Iraq.

I support the search in Afghanastan for Al-Queda. They admitted to what they did, it can be proven.

The bottom line that you keep missing is that our country has decided to go to war and kill people based entirely on information(WMD/terrorist links) that was a lie.

Do you understand the implications that has on our country? Is that lost on you?

Don't you see what is going on around the globe?  In Israel? In Indonesia?  Can't you understand that it really is World War 3. That we all have a vested interest in defeating these terrorists?

The terrorists in Iraq? that weren't actually linked in anyway?

I agree we will all benefit from getting rid of these terrorist. Afghanastan is a good example of that. Intelligence that finds the civilian terrorists in our country and others before they can do anything is a great example of that.

As far as Isreal, fighting and terrorism have been going on there long before Israel was even a country. Why is it suddenly an emergency?

Iraq doesn't equal the terrorist that attacked us on 9/11. It seems to me that you are lumping the two together, when that isn't the case at all. There was no link.

No one here likes terrorist. I think I can safely say that. Everyone hates what happened 9/11, but that does not justify what we are doing in Iraq right now.

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Sounds like a dittohead to me... rolleyes.gif

I am actually. Thanks for noticing!

There is a lot of information regarding Iraq/Al Queda.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=29949

The bottom line that you keep missing is that our country has decided to go to war and kill people based entirely on information(WMD/terrorist links) that was a lie.

Huh? Again, Sadaam decided he would rather go to war than prove he

didn't have any WMD. If he didn't have any he should have just said, Go any

where you want. He didn't. He acted like he had something to hide because he

did. What was it? Time will tell.

As far as Isreal, fighting and terrorism have been going on there long before Israel was even a country. Why is it suddenly an emergency?

It has always been an emergency. Have you forgotten that Sadaam was

paying Palestinian parents $25,000 for each kid that became a suicide bomber?

Or do you not buy that either?

Look, this is what the reality of our world is: We are not going to stop until we

have destroyed terrorism...period. This is not about Al Queda, this is not about

Iraq, this is about destroying those who want to destroy us before they can.

Bush made it real clear. You are with us or you are against us. If you are a terrorist your days are numbered. If you help terrorists your days are numbered.

This is what I say about any one who would seek to destroy America or any of

our Allies:

Kill em all and let God sort em out!

By the way: a prediction

Bush wins in landslide in November....................

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all one has to do is look to Libya to realise that things are getting better

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dontgetit.gif you may need some help their . Please refrain from using god in a phrase justifiing mass genocide .... its part of the reason so many dont believe in him ....

I see two countries both acting equally retarded . And "pre empetive strike" is a stupid oximoron ... Lets put the reasoning to a more logical sense ... If their is a bully at school who plans to beat me up , shoul I sneak into his house and night and beat the *()@ out of him before he beats the _*(@# out of me ? No , its an attack .

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On a side note , its technically impossible to destroy terrorism altogether . Unless your talking about the Al queada only .

I guess never ending war is possible ....

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Look, this is what the reality of our world is: We are not going to stop until we

have destroyed terrorism...period. This is not about Al Queda, this is not about

Iraq, this is about destroying those who want to destroy us before they can.

Bush made it real clear. You are with us or you are against us. If you are a terrorist your days are numbered. If you help terrorists your days are numbered.

This is what I say about any one who would seek to destroy America or any of

our Allies:

You have learned the script very well, word for word even! The indoctrination obviously succeeded with you. Rush will be proud should he ever fully pull out of his drug induced haze...

Kill em all and let God sort em out!

And that pretty much sums it up for you doesn't it?

To think I had been wasting my time with independent critical analysis, logical reasoning, and evaluating the available evidence when it would be so much easier to parrot what the government tells me to.

And it comes back to my theory that a critical thinking course should be mandatory in high school, and required before given the privilege of voting.

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Joc am sorry but you really dont have a clue do you?

When you are talking about international matters please at least get people's names right. It Colonel Gaddafi.

Why didnt America invade Libya after lockerbie?

I willing to stake money you dont come up with a decent answer to that one. I mean they admitted that they were hiding the bombers. How many american citizens died that night? So why didnt we invade them?

Ill tell you why, Libya doesnt have huge reserves of oil thats why. Earlier i said i was a "decently educated person" and you mocked me. I mean you just dont have a clue what your talking about.

HOW IS AL GORE A COMMUNIST? You are just spouting utter nonsense (and showing your true colours)

Do you have any idea what communism means?

What is so bad about being leftist? (which doesnt make you a communist it makes you a socialist you fool)

What is so bad about believing everyone should be equal?

THIS WAR WAS ABOUT OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do u think 50% of britain's population was against the war. They understood the real reasons behind this wr.

I do agree that us invading Iraq influenced libya to allow inspections and that is a good thing, but that doesnt make what we did right.

Wow we've scared the rest of the planet. We must have done the right thing LOL.

Get a grip joc and stop believing that supreme idiot bush.

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Joc am sorry but you really dont have a clue do you?

When you are talking about international matters please at least get people's names right. It Colonel Gaddafi.

I guess I did get the name wrong, it is actually: Col. Mummar Al-Quadafe

Why didnt America invade Libya after lockerbie?

I willing to stake money you dont come up with a decent answer to that one. I mean they admitted that they were hiding the bombers. How many american citizens died that night? So why didnt we invade them?

In 1986 we bombed Libya in retaliation for the bombing of a Berlin nightclub frequented by US servicemen. It was not the first time we had been attacked. Have you forgotten the marine barracks bombing in 1983 which killed well over 200 marines. Libya only recently claimed responsibility for the bombing of Pan Am flight 103.

The correct answer is that it was a different US policy in the middle east at the time. You cannot view what is going on today and try to put it in the frame of the ‘80s. Everything….EVERYTHING….changed on 9/11. It is an entirely different world now guy.

Ill tell you why, Libya doesnt have huge reserves of oil thats why. Earlier i said i was a "decently educated person" and you mocked me. I mean you just dont have a clue what your talking about.

I wasn't mocking you........sorry if it sounded that way.

HOW IS AL GORE A COMMUNIST? You are just spouting utter nonsense (and showing your true colours)

Read his book Earth in the Balance? Nuff said. You haven’t listened to the ideas of this guy have you? Yeah, he is a communist through and through.

My true colors? My true colors dude are Red, White, and Blue!!! Socialism and Communism are not the same thing. The large difference is that the Communists will kill you for disagreeing with them and the Socialists will not. Don’t rag me about what I do and don’t know about communism pal. Just don’t. Lest you begin sounding like one.

What is so bad about being leftist? (which doesnt make you a communist it makes you a socialist you fool)

Please don’t resort to name-calling. Have I once ever called you or anyone else Stupid? Or Fool? It really is unbecoming and detracts from the validity of whatever arguments you are proposing….(no matter how undoubtedly incorrect they may be)

What is so bad about believing everyone should be equal?

Where did this come from?

THIS WAR WAS ABOUT OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let us acknowledge the truth together shall we. The Engine of the World runs on Oil. Do we need to go to war for oil? No. Why would we go to such lengths to invade a country with massive weaponry for their oil? That is the same Leftist argument used in the Gulf War. Forgot that they invaded Kuwait, eh?

Why do u think 50% of britain's population was against the war. They understood the real reasons behind this wr.

50% of Britain’s against the war? If that is so it is probably because it was the UNITED STATES that was hit on 9/11 and not London or Edinburgh.

I do agree that us invading Iraq influenced libya to allow inspections and that is a good thing, but that doesnt make what we did right.

Wow we've scared the rest of the planet. We must have done the right thing LOL.

No, we have scared the rest of the terrorists.

Get a grip joc and stop believing that supreme idiot bush.

Why is it that liberals always resort to name calling when they feel they are losing an argument?

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