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Omnaka

Cloning Can Not Succeed

408 posts in this topic

I got about halfway through the thread, and saw the most prudent questions were not being answered so I skipped to here.

From what I did pick up, God is the source. Not sure how that helps, but there you go.

I thought I did pretty good answering "The most prudent questions". Most of this thread was created in about three days. I had to sleep sometime. And Some question were already answered, I get tired of repeating myself.

Who are you to claim that ants and bees have a spirit? Much less humans.

Source?

I have answered this quite a few times on this thread. Yes, Heavenly Father is the source for Most Of what I shared. Plus, I have been to the spiurit world and seen The bees and ants spirits for myself. as far as the comment about growing meat for implants, thats fine, it's not a living breathing human clone. it would not have the freewill That Human spirits enjoy, it's spirit would be of Father and Mother only (Begotten) Its spirit (The meat) atoms would stay stable out of unconditional love for Father. Again it's not a human clone and Father says he will not put a spirit inside of one (A full human Clone). I will check back every once in a while to see if there are any pertinent questions that I can answer.

Love Omnaka

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I thought I did pretty good answering "The most prudent questions". Most of this thread was created in about three days. I had to sleep sometime. And Some question were already answered, I get tired of repeating myself.

I thought the Dolly questions were quite prudent in trying to understand the reasoning why cloning would, or would not fail. It's a bit hard to follow you when you just point at God for answers.

Edited by psyche101

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I thought I did pretty good answering "The most prudent questions". Most of this thread was created in about three days. I had to sleep sometime. And Some question were already answered, I get tired of repeating myself.

I have answered this quite a few times on this thread. Yes, Heavenly Father is the source for Most Of what I shared. Plus, I have been to the spiurit world and seen The bees and ants spirits for myself. as far as the comment about growing meat for implants, thats fine, it's not a living breathing human clone. it would not have the freewill That Human spirits enjoy, it's spirit would be of Father and Mother only (Begotten) Its spirit (The meat) atoms would stay stable out of unconditional love for Father. Again it's not a human clone and Father says he will not put a spirit inside of one (A full human Clone). I will check back every once in a while to see if there are any pertinent questions that I can answer.

Love Omnaka

The thing about what you say here is that no one can either prove or disprove it. Also what is the difference about a soul of an animal and that of a human (also an animal but you get what I mean). Are our souls considered more superior? Do souls then have a class system? Dolly the sheep was cloned and seems to be doing fine.

Also the concept of soul here I am not sure what you mean. In an episode of Supernatural I watched one of the protagonists, Sam, did not have a soul for a period of time. He was still alive and moving, he just wasn't himself if you know what I mean. He had been severed from all emotional and moral feelings. So by this concept the clones would just be walking pieces of meat with no emotional or moral understanding of anything. Therefore how could it be wrong to harvest them?

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The thing about what you say here is that no one can either prove or disprove it. Also what is the difference about a soul of an animal and that of a human (also an animal but you get what I mean). Are our souls considered more superior? Do souls then have a class system? Dolly the sheep was cloned and seems to be doing fine.

Also the concept of soul here I am not sure what you mean. In an episode of Supernatural I watched one of the protagonists, Sam, did not have a soul for a period of time. He was still alive and moving, he just wasn't himself if you know what I mean. He had been severed from all emotional and moral feelings. So by this concept the clones would just be walking pieces of meat with no emotional or moral understanding of anything. Therefore how could it be wrong to harvest them?

The spirits inside animals are of Heavenly Father and Mother (God) They love god unconditionally as God loves them unconditionally. The spirit in man is also of god and God loves them unconditionally, but man has freewill, and does not always love unconditionally. The proof is there are no human clones. Been 4 years since I started this thread, still no Human clones.

When The spirit enters the body, togeather they make a soul. The spirit esentially runs the body and all it's systems needed for Life in the Physical world. No spirit. no life. There are many Moral and ethical reasons which have been pointed out in this thread for not doing it. Heavenly Father Knows them too, and will not allow it to happen. Yes God has freewill also. this is his world. If scientis can grow A limb or Heart or body part w/ out making a complete Human to experiment on and part out, more power to em, but No Full human clone will ever Live. So sayeth Heavenly Father, and I believe him. Since everything in the physical is made up of Fathers spirit, even the leg w/ no body that is grown has spirit. but no freewill and is content Just being a leg.

Animals were created as food and comfortors to man Dolly the sheeep did not mind being a clone. and would not be parted out for her Vital organs to be sold to the highest bidders.

The freewill in Man does not involve being owned by a corporation, that employs a bunch of scientists, that can and would do what ever they want with their property (Their freewill) So God just nipped it in the budd, by not putting a spirit in their Concept.

Love Omnaka

Edited by Omnaka

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Thankfully biology doesn't support such nonsense.

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Are our souls considered more superior? Do souls then have a class system? Dolly the sheep was cloned and seems to be doing fine.

Didn't Dolly die in 2003?

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The spirits inside animals are of Heavenly Father and Mother (God) They love god unconditionally as God loves them unconditionally. The spirit in man is also of god and God loves them unconditionally, but man has freewill, and does not always love unconditionally. The proof is there are no human clones. Been 4 years since I started this thread, still no Human clones.

When The spirit enters the body, togeather they make a soul. The spirit esentially runs the body and all it's systems needed for Life in the Physical world. No spirit. no life. There are many Moral and ethical reasons which have been pointed out in this thread for not doing it. Heavenly Father Knows them too, and will not allow it to happen. Yes God has freewill also. this is his world. If scientis can grow A limb or Heart or body part w/ out making a complete Human to experiment on and part out, more power to em, but No Full human clone will ever Live. So sayeth Heavenly Father, and I believe him. Since everything in the physical is made up of Fathers spirit, even the leg w/ no body that is grown has spirit. but no freewill and is content Just being a leg.

Animals were created as food and comfortors to man Dolly the sheeep did not mind being a clone. and would not be parted out for her Vital organs to be sold to the highest bidders.

The freewill in Man does not involve being owned by a corporation, that employs a bunch of scientists, that can and would do what ever they want with their property (Their freewill) So God just nipped it in the budd, by not putting a spirit in their Concept.

Love Omnaka

I think the reason why there have been no KNOWN human clones due to the touchy subject it is. How can you speak on behalf of Dolly. You are also putting humans as the superior being with animals to serve us. I find that sort of thinking quite outdated by a few hundred years.

Who said the organs of clones were to be sold to the highest bidders? In the case they are not then what makes it right to clone Dolly (please don't speak on behalf of an animal) and not a clone with only "spirit" in which as I explained before would not completely be wrong as they wouldn't have any concept of emotions and morality

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Didn't Dolly die in 2003?

Sorry I meant to say seemed fine. She died of lung cancer prevalent in her flock, most likely not connected with being cloned whatsoever.

Edited by Orcseeker

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I think the reason why there have been no KNOWN human clones due to the touchy subject it is. How can you speak on behalf of Dolly. You are also putting humans as the superior being with animals to serve us. I find that sort of thinking quite outdated by a few hundred years.

Who said the organs of clones were to be sold to the highest bidders? In the case they are not then what makes it right to clone Dolly (please don't speak on behalf of an animal) and not a clone with only "spirit" in which as I explained before would not completely be wrong as they wouldn't have any concept of emotions and morality

This is why i shut down the other dolly posts, I did not start this to talk about Sheep cloning. the thread is about human cloning. Just what do you think would happen to human clones should science learn how to make spirit which controls the human body? Not that it could happen. Father allowed Dolly to be born, No harm no foul, or Lamb, Lol. Just what do you think would happen to the clones should they be born and owned by Monsanto or Dow, or any # of big corporations. this is another thing that has already been discussed in this thread.

The thing is, (Bolded) there will never be a spirit in a fully functioning human clone, not only is it a volunteer job, to come down in the physical, but God won't allow it. Wanna grow a leg, or liver, Go a head Lol. Ok no pun intended, it just slipped out. There will never be proof of a human clone being born in a lab, or elsewhere and that will be the proof of what I shared. I already explained that Dollys parts are considdered Meat, and not priceless Organs to be sold to the highest bidder. And if a clone did exist, bet it would be a conscious entity stripped of all humanity, disenfranchised to it's core and sold like Dolly the sheep. Not good My friend. But you can always hope.

Love Omnaka

PS, we all serve God and God serves us. the hierarchy is an illusion. unconditional love is Equall. Unlles you think God a dictater?

Edited by Omnaka

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I think the reason why there have been no KNOWN human clones due to the touchy subject it is. How can you speak on behalf of Dolly. You are also putting humans as the superior being with animals to serve us. I find that sort of thinking quite outdated by a few hundred years.

Who said the organs of clones were to be sold to the highest bidders? In the case they are not then what makes it right to clone Dolly (please don't speak on behalf of an animal) and not a clone with only "spirit" in which as I explained before would not completely be wrong as they wouldn't have any concept of emotions and morality

Any spirit born as a human is a conscious entity, W/ feelings and the love Of God. Yes Down syndrome babies and altzihmer patients are conscious Spirits in a Body bag, You might not think they contain Emotions , Morality or even Conscious thought, or inteligence, and neither do many scientists. Hitler thought along these lines and made subject experiments out of them. It's a pandoras box, which if not contained Would disenfranchise spirits, who wish to come down to experience, Experience. The Spirits who come down in mortal form don't do it to be caged and experimented on. Would YOU? Believe that, Or not.

Love Omnaka

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K ORK,last time before I sleep,

How can you speak on behalf of Dolly. You are also putting humans as the superior being with animals to serve us. I find that sort of thinking quite outdated by a few hundred years.

Find it however you like. I was just sharing something the father of you'r spirit and world, shared w/ me, The words to serve are outdated, but true anyway, why are you alive? maybe to serve your self? Paleeze! Go deeper bro. If God told you anything, you would kick your self for not sharing. Or maybe you would be afraid of ridicule Haha. Your Fragile Body only laststs a lil while, then you will know what I'm talking about. This is not a threat, but a promiss, that comes with eternal Life which by the way is not supported by The physical world, but the oposite.

NO FEAR!

Love Omnaka.

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Find it however you like. I was just sharing something the father of you'r spirit and world, shared w/ me, The words to serve are outdated, but true anyway, why are you alive? maybe to serve your self? Paleeze! Go deeper bro. If God told you anything, you would kick your self for not sharing. Or maybe you would be afraid of ridicule Haha. Your Fragile Body only laststs a lil while, then you will know what I'm talking about. This is not a threat, but a promiss, that comes with eternal Life which by the way is not supported by The physical world, but the oposite.

NO FEAR!

Love Omnaka.

Maybe you should to be sharing this with a psychiatrist? They could help you.

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This is why i shut down the other dolly posts, I did not start this to talk about Sheep cloning. the thread is about human cloning. Just what do you think would happen to human clones should science learn how to make spirit which controls the human body? Not that it could happen. Father allowed Dolly to be born, No harm no foul, or Lamb, Lol. Just what do you think would happen to the clones should they be born and owned by Monsanto or Dow, or any # of big corporations. this is another thing that has already been discussed in this thread.

The thing is, (Bolded) there will never be a spirit in a fully functioning human clone, not only is it a volunteer job, to come down in the physical, but God won't allow it. Wanna grow a leg, or liver, Go a head Lol. Ok no pun intended, it just slipped out. There will never be proof of a human clone being born in a lab, or elsewhere and that will be the proof of what I shared. I already explained that Dollys parts are considdered Meat, and not priceless Organs to be sold to the highest bidder. And if a clone did exist, bet it would be a conscious entity stripped of all humanity, disenfranchised to it's core and sold like Dolly the sheep. Not good My friend. But you can always hope.

Love Omnaka

PS, we all serve God and God serves us. the hierarchy is an illusion. unconditional love is Equall. Unlles you think God a dictater?

You've dodged my question. What if these clones aren't sold to the highest bidder and are in fact in place for people who would die if they do not receive a replacement organ? Where one clone could save several lives. Regardless, in my mind the clone would not be void of all human characteristics and would be like any other human. But as someone posted there is an organ printer out there so I don't see the need for clones (unless it is a cheaper method then it could be adopted) so if that works fine then if clones are produced it would be for something else.

Edited by Orcseeker

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Any spirit born as a human is a conscious entity, W/ feelings and the love Of God. Yes Down syndrome babies and altzihmer patients are conscious Spirits in a Body bag, You might not think they contain Emotions , Morality or even Conscious thought, or inteligence, and neither do many scientists. Hitler thought along these lines and made subject experiments out of them. It's a pandoras box, which if not contained Would disenfranchise spirits, who wish to come down to experience, Experience. The Spirits who come down in mortal form don't do it to be caged and experimented on. Would YOU? Believe that, Or not.

Love Omnaka

You are implying that all other animals and living things aren't? That's very decartes of you. You seem to imply just like Descartes that animals are just living automatons. You say animals were made for food and comfort to man and that "Dolly did not mind being a clone".

I have no prior memory of being a "spirit" so I can't comment on what I would do in that situation.

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K ORK,last time before I sleep,

Find it however you like. I was just sharing something the father of you'r spirit and world, shared w/ me, The words to serve are outdated, but true anyway, why are you alive? maybe to serve your self? Paleeze! Go deeper bro. If God told you anything, you would kick your self for not sharing. Or maybe you would be afraid of ridicule Haha. Your Fragile Body only laststs a lil while, then you will know what I'm talking about. This is not a threat, but a promiss, that comes with eternal Life which by the way is not supported by The physical world, but the oposite.

NO FEAR!

Love Omnaka.

I wasn't saying the word to "serve" was outdated but moreso the mindset. God has never told me anything because the only reason I have even heard about him is from people like you.

This may be off topic but what's the great desperation you have for eternal life? You are trying to use scare tactics to make me believe? If I did so due to fear I would not be a true believer anyway. I can't do that, sorry, it's in my nature. If I am subject to eternal damnation in hell because I can't believe in something for reasons stated above then that's not right.

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The spirits inside animals are of Heavenly Father and Mother (God) They love god unconditionally as God loves them unconditionally. The spirit in man is also of god and God loves them unconditionally, but man has freewill, and does not always love unconditionally. The proof is there are no human clones. Been 4 years since I started this thread, still no Human clones.

I do not think mans disposition is proof that clones cannot exist, but is is hardly surprising that no human has been cloned to date as that is illegal. If a clone ever was made, as those fools over at Rael's religion claim, it could not go public for fear of redemption. Not to mention that the process of stripping the nucleus from an egg cell and replacing it with the nucleus of a donor cell is a traumatic one, and often results in failure. Better techniques and further knowledge is required to overcome these obstacles. What the future holds is anybodies guess. The Roslin institute carried out intensive health screening and discounted any connection between Dolly's short telomeres and her demise. It's all about that first catalyst.

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The spirits inside animals are of Heavenly Father and Mother (God) They love god unconditionally as God loves them unconditionally. The spirit in man is also of god and God loves them unconditionally, but man has freewill, and does not always love unconditionally. The proof is there are no human clones. Been 4 years since I started this thread, still no Human clones.

Since the spirit in animals is of God and they successfully cloned a sheep and the cloned sheep had it's own spirit then they must have cloned the spirit and if it can be done with a sheep it can be done with a human since the spirits of both supposedly come from God. You have successfully negated your own view that humans can't be cloned because their spirit comes from God.

Since human cloning is still illegal, you won't see any human clones for the foreseeable future. If they are able to make the process easier with fewer problems for the clone in the future you might see something. Just because you have yet to see it doesn't mean it won't happen.

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Maybe you should to be sharing this with a psychiatrist? They could help you.

There are those of us that speak directly to the spirit.... And we are certifiably sane. I know of two on um who have a clean bill of health from doctors yet we have very personal even conversational relationships with divine beings.

When it comes to animals we are not above them. We have spiritual contracts with them. Human beings are just a bit more complex spiritually than animals. But the animal spirit is much older and developed than our egos. An animal is part of a larger aware spirit, so are we. It's just individually we have an intermittent level of awareness where are ego resides. Animal spirits are simply small parts of a collective spirits in ever increasing concentric rings ending with the great spirit ( the father) were we are one. They are our brothers and sisters we just have a diffrent structure of existence.

( at least thats how it was explained to me by a little boy ) :)

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I wasn't saying the word to "serve" was outdated but moreso the mindset. God has never told me anything because the only reason I have even heard about him is from people like you.

This may be off topic but what's the great desperation you have for eternal life? You are trying to use scare tactics to make me believe? If I did so due to fear I would not be a true believer anyway. I can't do that, sorry, it's in my nature. If I am subject to eternal damnation in hell because I can't believe in something for reasons stated above then that's not right.

There is no desperation about eternal life, reincarnation, or The eternal spirit which created your's. I'm not trying to scare anyone w/ what I share. just sharing. any hell would come from your own consciousness, not something God visits on anyone. nore could God take your conscious thought of hell away (Freewill) belief does not matter to anyone but self. I don't belong to any denomination, but I love heavenly Father and mother. this is not a belief its loving the parents of my eternal spirit. It's all as it should be, no harm no foul. I was just sharing.

Love Omnaka

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There are those of us that speak directly to the spirit.... And we are certifiably sane. I know of two on um who have a clean bill of health from doctors yet we have very personal even conversational relationships with divine beings.

When it comes to animals we are not above them. We have spiritual contracts with them. Human beings are just a bit more complex spiritually than animals. But the animal spirit is much older and developed than our egos. An animal is part of a larger aware spirit, so are we. It's just individually we have an intermittent level of awareness where are ego resides. Animal spirits are simply small parts of a collective spirits in ever increasing concentric rings ending with the great spirit ( the father) were we are one. They are our brothers and sisters we just have a diffrent structure of existence.

( at least thats how it was explained to me by a little boy ) :)

:tu:

Love Omnaka

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Since the spirit in animals is of God and they successfully cloned a sheep and the cloned sheep had it's own spirit then they must have cloned the spirit and if it can be done with a sheep it can be done with a human since the spirits of both supposedly come from God. You have successfully negated your own view that humans can't be cloned because their spirit comes from God.

Since human cloning is still illegal, you won't see any human clones for the foreseeable future. If they are able to make the process easier with fewer problems for the clone in the future you might see something. Just because you have yet to see it doesn't mean it won't happen.

OK, It has not Happened Yet, And God told me it won't happen. Is that better. The burden of proof lay on those who think they can do it, but have not succeeded, be it laws, science, or God. It has not happened.

Hope I worded it better that time lol.

Love Omnaka

Edited by Omnaka

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There is no desperation about eternal life, reincarnation, or The eternal spirit which created your's. I'm not trying to scare anyone w/ what I share. just sharing. any hell would come from your own consciousness, not something God visits on anyone. nore could God take your conscious thought of hell away (Freewill) belief does not matter to anyone but self. I don't belong to any denomination, but I love heavenly Father and mother. this is not a belief its loving the parents of my eternal spirit. It's all as it should be, no harm no foul. I was just sharing.

Love Omnaka

Ok, could you also address my other replies as well please? I hate to ask thrice.

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There are those of us that speak directly to the spirit.... And we are certifiably sane. I know of two on um who have a clean bill of health from doctors yet we have very personal even conversational relationships with divine beings.

GPs or those who specialise in mental health? Have they brought it up to the doctor about hearing voices?

Not all illnesses have apparent symptoms doctors can pick up, hiding such an illness doesn't mean having a clean bill of health.

When it comes to animals we are not above them. We have spiritual contracts with them. Human beings are just a bit more complex spiritually than animals. But the animal spirit is much older and developed than our egos. An animal is part of a larger aware spirit, so are we. It's just individually we have an intermittent level of awareness where are ego resides. Animal spirits are simply small parts of a collective spirits in ever increasing concentric rings ending with the great spirit ( the father) were we are one. They are our brothers and sisters we just have a diffrent structure of existence.
These claims are rather lacking when dealing with issues brought up in this thread.

"Cloning is impossible because God told me so" is rather empty.

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Humans are animals. Anyone that studies genetics and evolutionary biology would know this. Within our DNA is the dna of other ancient species. This is why we have a "tail" bone, why people get born with webbed digits, or pointed ears, or internal organs that are not used for anything. Cancer and other diseases are also latent in our genes waiting for a catalyst to make it active. Similar to having dominant and recessive physical features, they come and go. Genetic engineering is working to remove these dangerous pieces of our rdna with the hopes of eradicating those detriments to our species. We're also not the only cognitively sentient species with emotion and reasoning on earth. We do have higher reasoning than other animals, but we are still animals nonetheless.

With all that in mind, I think mankind is a plague. We eat and destroy everything in our path. We propegate without planning for the future. Mankind is already overpopulating the planet. Cloning may very well become possible, but is it wise? Not in the slightest. People are already living far longer than history has been ready for. Fewer people die, more people stay alive. The population is building so fast that mankind will run out of food if we don't slow down. Stephen Hawking himself said mankind won't survive within the next 200 years due to 1 of 2 things happening. We'll either overpopulate to the point that we starve ourselves to death, or we'll blow ourselves up. So it is either, humans will literally fornicate the human race into extinction, or we'll immolate ourselves with fire. Our only hope is to concentrate on finding more planets to live on, or slow ourselves down drastically.

What does all this mean for my contribution to this thread? I think cloning is a stupid idea that should go the way of the dodo. We're concentrating too much on the wrong fields of study.

Edited by Meiliken

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As a continuation of what I posted before this one, I felt I should bring something else in to show how animalistic we really are.

Take a gander at this.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_facts_support_evolution

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