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SteveLove

John Chang Debunked

103 posts in this topic

For anyone who doesn't know of the "great" martial artist with psychic power named John Chang, here is his video.

And here is the explanation.

On first viewing, Chang appears to be doing a few simple carnival tricks:

1. "Generating electricity" - this is normally done with the use of a small high-frequency, high-voltage, low-amperage device taped to the performer's body. James Randi mentions this device here, regarding others who have done this:

Randi wrote:This “chi” scam artist on YouTube is probably using the very same setup as the Malaysian crook did, a small battery-powered device worn on the body that develops very high voltage at very low amperage, that can be directed from the body of the performer to anything that’s at a lower potential than he is. It’s a form of Tesla coil, and it’s very effective. There’s also a rabbi in New York using this same gimmick to convince the faithful…

2. Catching a "rifle bullet" - what is shown is the firing of a very low-speed pellet that can pierce the wall of an empty soda can. Then, Chang puts his hand in front of the gun. He is in no danger, and there does not appear to be anything extraordinary about what he is doing.

3. Moving a knife - Chang carefully balances a knife on its sheath. It is shown moving slightly in one direction, twice. With such a precariously-balanced object, the slightest breeze will move it readily. All Chang has to do is wait a bit. In the first movement, he has his mouth close to the knife, "talking" to it. In the second, he has leaned back, so either he's caught a breeze, or he started the knife in a position that would naturally swing away, or else he's using his knee (either one would work, but it's hard to tell from that angle which, if either, is in position), to slightly lift the glass tabletop.

4. "Fooling the experts" - they have a CEO, a doctor, and a physicist. They really needed an electrical engineer. They try to use an ordinary volt meter. If he's using the high-frequency device, of course they will not get readings from this! Some experts they are! :) Maybe they actually do use the metal detector on his back and feet to check for the device, but this is not shown. :roll: Chang seems to be flexing his back to produce his electricity. I would check between his shoulder blades. I mean, they strip him almost naked, but they let him leave his shirt on?!? Oh, and the color-changing LEDs have different colors depending on the direction of the current, not the amount.

5. "Chopstick through the table" - has anything ever looked more like a set-up magic trick? First, he takes them to his local restaurant. Then he can't make the "chi" work on Formica, so he needs to use the bottom of the table. This trick requires nothing more than a cheap table with a seam in the wood.

As miracles go, I can't say I'm impressed.

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8888

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Well I think it's more to it than this.

This guy, didn't want to take part of a documentary in the first place almost 30 years ago or so maybe it was 20 when they were first making a video about him, as he was a healer and acupuntcure and not a "stage magician" or some guy out making a living of showing tricks or even normally showing them. He simply demonstrated what the power he used for healing could be used for in other ways as well

What about the part where he lights up the news paper with his hands? Pretty interesting.

In the end, he got quite furious and angry when he found out they were going to publish this video documentary and sent them away and said never to return again and they lost contact with him.

20-30 years later he suddenly shows up again, after having been a couple years (if i remember correctly) meditating on his own out in the jungles etc. and decided that it is time to show the world more about these kind of things and try document it.

He let them study him and do research and document what he was doing, without gaining anything from that, as far I know - and it ends with him getting scared by the spirits for having spilled blood and swearing to never do these things in public again (and he looked pretty legitimately scared and worried to me regarding that)

And I know personally the Chi power, and whatever you want to call it, is real and can indeed be projected out of the body to manipulate external objects or people. I've personally experienced a qi gong master who knocked me over with only his energy standing several feet away - so did several friends of mine. And I practised energy work and related things for years myself and once tried to do similar thing on a friend of mine, and it worked and he got shocked and scared.

Of course there are many hoaxers in this field, but I think this fellow was honest.

Edited by darkbreed
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Well I think it's more to it than this.

This guy, didn't want to take part of a documentary in the first place almost 30 years ago or so maybe it was 20 when they were first making a video about him, as he was a healer and acupuntcure and not a "stage magician" or some guy out making a living of showing tricks or even normally showing them. He simply demonstrated what the power he used for healing could be used for in other ways as well

What about the part where he lights up the news paper with his hands? Pretty interesting.

In the end, he got quite furious and angry when he found out they were going to publish this video documentary and sent them away and said never to return again and they lost contact with him.

20-30 years later he suddenly shows up again, after having been a couple years (if i remember correctly) meditating on his own out in the jungles etc. and decided that it is time to show the world more about these kind of things and try document it.

He let them study him and do research and document what he was doing, without gaining anything from that, as far I know - and it ends with him getting scared by the spirits for having spilled blood and swearing to never do these things in public again (and he looked pretty legitimately scared and worried to me regarding that)

And I know personally the Chi power, and whatever you want to call it, is real and can indeed be projected out of the body to manipulate external objects or people. I've personally experienced a qi gong master who knocked me over with only his energy standing several feet away - so did several friends of mine. And I practised energy work and related things for years myself and once tried to do similar thing on a friend of mine, and it worked and he got shocked and scared.

Of course there are many hoaxers in this field, but I think this fellow was honest.

He broke off the interview because he didn't want to get caught or get too many people on him. I've also seen what he teaches his students and everything they've done are physics tricks. He strings them along and never teaches anyone the fourth step which enables them to do things he is capable of. The guys a natural charlatan. It is very easy to fake the newspaper lighting. Including the way that is already mentioned. When it comes down to it, there are no paranormal powers. As for your experience with the Qi Gong master, I too had that happen to me from someone I found out later was a joker. I too did it to someone. Power of suggestion my friends.

And if you've read his books....well they make a good fairy tale.

Edited by SteveLove

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Well power of suggestion is ruled out, as in both cases none of us were facing eachother or could otherwise know when the psi ball would be sent to knock us down.

And I don't think he broke off the interview because of fear from getting caught or getting too many people on him - then he wouldnt come there in the first year after 20-30 years of silence.

Also, I'm experienced with much more than just mere psi balls knocking me and friends over when it comes to spiritual matters. I've done many experiments with many different subjects (dowsing, telekinesis, healing, astral projection, evocations of spirits, scrying, etc) for more than a decade, and I practice a system of so called high magic and it most definitively is real and gives real results and I've discovered that it all mainly boils down to one thing, all powers are due to the same force, which is the Mind - what you believe in will become real, it is basically the Law of Attraction which is the most important principle behind all of these things. As above, so below - as below, so above - the Universe is the same as God, God is the same as Man. And as everything is connected by this Mental Force called God, we can individually affect this Supreme Mind to make changes occur in our reality according to our will.

Sounds pretty wild yeah but i've lived long enough to study the effects of my different experiments and research i've done in regards of these kind of things, and had its reality confirmed over and over and it gets more interesting all the time the more you discover.

The rabbit hole goes quite deep indeed.

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Well power of suggestion is ruled out, as in both cases none of us were facing eachother or could otherwise know when the psi ball would be sent to knock us down.

And I don't think he broke off the interview because of fear from getting caught or getting too many people on him - then he wouldnt come there in the first year after 20-30 years of silence.

Also, I'm experienced with much more than just mere psi balls knocking me and friends over when it comes to spiritual matters. I've done many experiments with many different subjects (dowsing, telekinesis, healing, astral projection, evocations of spirits, scrying, etc) for more than a decade, and I practice a system of so called high magic and it most definitively is real and gives real results and I've discovered that it all mainly boils down to one thing, all powers are due to the same force, which is the Mind - what you believe in will become real, it is basically the Law of Attraction which is the most important principle behind all of these things. As above, so below - as below, so above - the Universe is the same as God, God is the same as Man. And as everything is connected by this Mental Force called God, we can individually affect this Supreme Mind to make changes occur in our reality according to our will.

Sounds pretty wild yeah but i've lived long enough to study the effects of my different experiments and research i've done in regards of these kind of things, and had its reality confirmed over and over and it gets more interesting all the time the more you discover.

The rabbit hole goes quite deep indeed.

So are you willing to prove your abilities?

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So are you willing to prove your abilities?

Yes if you read my post in the Ap/Remote Viewing thread somewhere around here I said I would give it a try.

And I did a semi-successful remote viewing test today with a friend, which is also told there.

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Well power of suggestion is ruled out, as in both cases none of us were facing eachother or could otherwise know when the psi ball would be sent to knock us down.

And I don't think he broke off the interview because of fear from getting caught or getting too many people on him - then he wouldnt come there in the first year after 20-30 years of silence.

Also, I'm experienced with much more than just mere psi balls knocking me and friends over when it comes to spiritual matters. I've done many experiments with many different subjects (dowsing, telekinesis, healing, astral projection, evocations of spirits, scrying, etc) for more than a decade, and I practice a system of so called high magic and it most definitively is real and gives real results and I've discovered that it all mainly boils down to one thing, all powers are due to the same force, which is the Mind - what you believe in will become real, it is basically the Law of Attraction which is the most important principle behind all of these things. As above, so below - as below, so above - the Universe is the same as God, God is the same as Man. And as everything is connected by this Mental Force called God, we can individually affect this Supreme Mind to make changes occur in our reality according to our will.

Sounds pretty wild yeah but i've lived long enough to study the effects of my different experiments and research i've done in regards of these kind of things, and had its reality confirmed over and over and it gets more interesting all the time the more you discover.

The rabbit hole goes quite deep indeed.

Any odd chance he didnt want videotaped and disappeared for 20 years because it was and still is painfully easy for "western" scientists to debunk this "eastern" trickery? As long as James Randi and others like him have been at it I could easily see this guy disappearing from prying western eyes.

Then he shows up again and wants to be filmed. Anyone think that he practiced certain things and became confident that he could perform for the cameras well enough to avoid being debunked? Perhaps technology progressed to where he could show some "real" powers? IE: lighting the paper on fire

I think what SteveLove poster if right on track and pretty much what I was thinking when the vids have been posted. I also think that the lady catching a splinter between her eyes was the best thing anyone could have done for him. Stay hidden for 20 years, come out and perform some tricks under questionable conditions and then go back into hiding because of some higher moral mumbo jumbo. A convenient way to prop up a reputation. Have we not seen this in other fields?

Also I will state you do not test these types of people using these little gimmicks. You hook up real equipment to them and test them in the proper environment or you dont have jack squat but an interesting video. You wouldn't test a magician on a stage in Vegas using their equipment and have the local casino manager witness it. You stick then in a properly prepared environment, use real equipment that can test a wide range of things and have real honest to goodness scientists witness/run the whole thing. Do the filming in a better environment or use a better set up. For the love of toast do something different or its just a video...

You speak of this higher magic as being real and having real results. I wouldnt be doing my duty as a "darn skeptic" if I didnt ask exactly what are you talking about? What real results? Reproducible results? Can any reproduce them or only you? Care the explain your tests? Care the be tested by someone of worth? Spare me the spiritual, feel good and god nonsense. What real results have you?

Kevin A.

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I already mentioned one - the psi ball experiences.

Others include astral projections witnessing things going on elsewhere and then get it confirmed later that what I saw was correct. I've also had others project and made them do things such as going into another room where I have placed a card from a deck of card, had the other person look at it, return to body and tell me what he saw, which was correct.

Also I've performed dowsing with success, with many witnesses, where I've had them hide an item, and I've found it back with dowsing. I also used dowsing to help find lost items.

Other things includes as evocations of spirits (the arch angels) to full physical manifestation - I only did this twice though, and intend to try it again with witnesses as I was alone. I tried videotape it the second time, but my camera is too sensitive and needs a lot of light so the video was all black as I performed it in the darkness with only couple candles burning - couldnt even see myself in the video.

THen I've done some remote viewing experiments, as mentioned above and in other threads, with success and witnesses being able to verify the results.

Some of the things that had witnesses and were monitored experiments. In addition I've done many experiments alone with only myself as witness, but I won't get into much details about that now as for you those kind of experiences probably won't matter much anyway as there were no one else to verify them. But it has truly given me a much richer life, both mentally, spiritually, physically, economically, and in every aspect.

Regarding magic in general, I understand as I said above how the universe works - it's mental and responds to other mental transmissions , which means thoughts. So, I do rituals and visualization exercises etc focusing on what I want to gain and I live in harmony with the universal laws just as you have to do with the physical laws to gain success and fortune.

And yes anyone can reproduce these things I would assume, as long they are really trying and believing in what they are doing. Or at least be open for the possibility that it might be real. If you are completely closeminded it's harder to get results but not impossible - there are some general things that works for everyone, such as living in harmony with the universal laws and trying that out for a while to see it's giving back good effects. What goes around comes around and all that.

Study some high magic, practice it, try it out and be open minded and try live into it, and maybe you'll be surprised to experience something out of your normal daily routine and be able to change it for the better. The same goes for all spiritual/psychic subjects - the best way to find out if it's real is to try it out and do that for a while, that's what I did, starting as a skeptic, now a knower.

Edited by darkbreed
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Why must all these "psychics" suggest I try it myself, when I tried for 7 1/2 years?Seems to me like another way to dodge the bullet.

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What did you try for 7 and half years? What systems and practices did you follow etc?

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Why must all these "psychics" suggest I try it myself, when I tried for 7 1/2 years?Seems to me like another way to dodge the bullet.

Ohh, I don't know. Perhaps because first hand experience is infinitely better and allows for more of an increase in your conscious' development, rather than experiencing these things vicariously?

Or, perhaps because those that are '''psychic''' believe everyone can do it, and so if you try you too can do it.

Not everyone knows of your past and if you've tried any of this for any number of years. So when they suggest doing it yourself, that IS a valid and logical suggestion.

-Akaebeel

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What did you try for 7 and half years? What systems and practices did you follow etc?

I have attempted to summon demons, chaos magick. Spent a good porition of the time trying to learn telekinesis. Astral Projection worked but I can't say it was anything other than sleep paralysis though it scared the hell out of me when it worked. I did Qi Gong and I could feel the energy but I couldn't release it from my body although I had opened my meridians and sent it out at the certain points (forget what they're called). I tried levitation, teleportation, tummo (which worked but there is obviously a physiological explanation). I have been able to change my heart beat. That's about it, but I practiced 1-5 hours a day for 7 1/2 months and it was no go. I was 14 when I started. Back when I used to be one of these gullable people that posted on forums like this thinking I had experienced something out of the normal or that I could do this or that. In reality it was just me trying to feed my ego, exaggerating, or coincidence. So I have seen both sides of the coin and I am proud to be rooted in reality now as a skeptic.

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you are telling me that you have experienced what we may call the verge of a real full blown spiritual experience or magical act etc. Unfortunately, for some reason, you didn't mange to go all the way. Your astral projection experiences are good signs, you were very close, sleep paralysis is the ultimate state to achieve an projection from. Too bad you got scared, that's probably why you didnt mange to have a real astral projection. Maybe you should try again now that you are more old and hopefully more bold. From your previous experience, it sounds like you should be able to do it, specially if you use some helping tools such as self-hypnosis, hemi-sync technology, etc that can be useful for many people, and also simply try different methods as there are about as many methods for astral projecting that there are people.

Your energy work sounds good too. To really develop your energy body in a great and very sensible way you should check out the book Energy Work by Robert Bruce you can find it on his homepage http://www.astraldynamics.com - Astral dynamics the book is also quite useful for learning astral projection, and its tons of free material, tutorials, and lessons on the site for both energy work, astral projection and other related things.

Levitation and teleportation is a tough one - that is something very few can manage as it demands great control over your spirit, mind and soul and the balance between them and a greatly developed energy body - at least thats what I think about it, I've never really practiced that myself. It's much wiser and easier to just learn astral projection properly instead and you'll be able to do that in an much easier and more efficient way. And you dont have to worry about teleporting yourself somewhere and not getting back either :)

cheers

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I'm still divided on the subject. Part of me thinks there's nothing, while another part of me is still curious about it. I think i'm interested because i'm bored with my life. I know i'm going to get a boring job, an average home, and never do anything significant for the rest of my life, just simply existing. And the best part is that when I die, it will all be rendered meaningless anyways. But I refuse to accept psychic abilities without evidence, and almost everyone who's tried to do so either was revealed to be a fraud, or the studies weren't controlled enough. (Like the ganzfield studies, which weren't randomized enough.)

Edited by inkblot

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I'm still divided on the subject. Part of me thinks there's nothing, while another part of me is still curious about it. I think i'm interested because i'm bored with my life. I know i'm going to get a boring job, an average home, and never do anything significant for the rest of my life, just simply existing. And the best part is that when I die, it will all be rendered meaningless anyways. But I refuse to accept psychic abilities without evidence, and almost everyone who's tried to do so either was revealed to be a fraud, or the studies weren't controlled enough. (Like the ganzfield studies, which weren't randomized enough.)

You can accomplish some of the most important things to happen to this world if you choose. It's up to YOU to decide if you want to. :)

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As I keep saying, the real and only method to find out if it is legitimate (and the most interesting way in any case!) is to try it YOURSELF, you be the scientist performing the experiments, you be the one following the curious part of your being, and be open minded and accept that it might be possible to achieve such things, try out different spiritual and/or magical systems for some period of time, and see if you gain any result at all. Even the slightest indications towards success should be pursued further and tried to be developed further in any such case, and you may try different methods and systems to achieve the same specific thing, and after a while see (hopefully) that there is something to it and that it is real, like many other of us have discovered long time ago.

It's more than a decade ago I personally discovered the reality of such things from my own research and experiments with it and it's been a great path ever since.

Good luck and may you find the way!

Cheers

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As I keep saying, the real and only method to find out if it is legitimate (and the most interesting way in any case!) is to try it YOURSELF, you be the scientist performing the experiments, you be the one following the curious part of your being, and be open minded and accept that it might be possible to achieve such things, try out different spiritual and/or magical systems for some period of time, and see if you gain any result at all. Even the slightest indications towards success should be pursued further and tried to be developed further in any such case, and you may try different methods and systems to achieve the same specific thing, and after a while see (hopefully) that there is something to it and that it is real, like many other of us have discovered long time ago.

It's more than a decade ago I personally discovered the reality of such things from my own research and experiments with it and it's been a great path ever since.

Good luck and may you find the way!

Cheers

If you really beleive you have powers, take the time to go to a college and have a science teacher set up a controlled experiment. Thats easy. No one ever does it though and I will except no exuces for something this easy to do.

Edited by Eric Raven The Skeptic

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Many are already working on projects as that, some examples:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormal_Research_Society

http://cref.tripod.com/aboutus.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_in...on_of_telepathy

and many more that i'm too lazy to look up now.

Gotta go, cheers

So why not do what I stated above????Hmmm.

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So why not do what I stated above????Hmmm.

To expand on Erics questioning:

Why are such "real" abilities so difficult to prove? You have the belief they are real, you have had them proven to you, so why can they not be proven to the masses? Why can no solid proof ever be presented? I am well aware of the "try it for yourself and you will see" thing so spare me. Been there and done that, still Ive got nothing and yes I did believe at the time. If it is so real for you and you can prove it to yourself using your own senses then surely you could prove something of worth to another human.

Please, if you have something, share it with us. I assure you we would love to hear it and yes, we will listen.

Oh and Darkbreed, let me know when you want to run the test you mentioned. Im still up for it.....

Kevin A.

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Then why do you get nothing and other people can get it? Your concentration is not in it.

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Then why do you get nothing and other people can get it? Your concentration is not in it.

My concentration was in it, once upon a time. I tried all the methods I could find. Concentrated, practiced, believed, concentrated some more. There was a time I wanted more than anything in the world to have some special super power. To awaken some latent ability. To have some amazing power.

I was young and look back at that time I think of myself as very foolish. I wanted to believe. Thanks to a religious upbringing I was wired to believe.

At the end of several years I had nothing but wasted time. I came to some revelations for several reasons. I become who I am now and began thinking the way I do now. Things changed and I became this "skeptic" you read before you but before this, I was a true believer.

As I said, spare me the try it for yourself stuff. Ive been there and tried that.....

Besides, what keeps one of these special gifted indigo people from proving an ability they have supposed correctly practiced for such a long time and wish to bring such a wonderful gift to humanity and for its benefit?

Kevin A.

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oh if you can't believe then its ok. I won't force you further

Cryingwoe

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To Eric Raven, Kevin, etc, asking for tests and experiments - I already SAID that I WOULD be more than happy to take part of an experiment here in this very forums to hopefully show that there are something to these "claims" of spiritual and psychic powers.

And, if you have read the posts where I mention this, such as in the Remote viewing experiments thread (sorry can't remember name right now without checking) I already said that I WILL participate in such tests and experiments, as soon I have the time to do so - which will at least take a couple of weeks, as already mentioned.

For this type of test, that can be done here through this forum, I need the time to prepare and re-train my remote viewing abilities and I got many other things I'm occupied with in my daily life than sitting here typing in a forum all day long, unfortunately I don't have that privilege like some of you seem to do who are posting almos every minute instead of being out doing something sensible such as work or studies. I guess you are lucky to have such time on your hands that you can spend all day sitting here criticizing and complaining in front of your computers instead of doing something useful.

I've offered myself to take part of such tests and experiments here, even completely "blind" tests regarding remote viewing where I will know nothing about the target or the person deciding the target at all, so there will be no chance of "cheating" or wild guesses.

When I get the time, if I do so, I might participate in other tests as well, such as dowsing, and tarot reading, and perhaps even astral projection experiments.

But, unlike many others here, I'm a busy person with lots of work and things to do in my daily work, so the time I have to do such things are limited to specific periods now and then, thus why I'm frequently away for months without being active in here.

I actually make my living of traveling the world and researching various mysteries, both ancient and present, and try to find the connection between things, so I'm often away for longer periods due to that among other things.

But, as I see it now, I should be able to conduct an experiment such as outlined above within the next few coming weeks.

So just be patient and wait until I have the time, allright.

cheers

Edited by darkbreed

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To Eric Raven, Kevin, etc, asking for tests and experiments - I already SAID that I WOULD be more than happy to take part of an experiment here in this very forums to hopefully show that there are something to these "claims" of spiritual and psychic powers.

And, if you have read the posts where I mention this, such as in the Remote viewing experiments thread (sorry can't remember name right now without checking) I already said that I WILL participate in such tests and experiments, as soon I have the time to do so - which will at least take a couple of weeks, as already mentioned.

For this type of test, that can be done here through this forum, I need the time to prepare and re-train my remote viewing abilities and I got many other things I'm occupied with in my daily life than sitting here typing in a forum all day long, unfortunately I don't have that privilege like some of you seem to do who are posting almos every minute instead of being out doing something sensible such as work or studies. I guess you are lucky to have such time on your hands that you can spend all day sitting here criticizing and complaining in front of your computers instead of doing something useful.

I've offered myself to take part of such tests and experiments here, even completely "blind" tests regarding remote viewing where I will know nothing about the target or the person deciding the target at all, so there will be no chance of "cheating" or wild guesses.

When I get the time, if I do so, I might participate in other tests as well, such as dowsing, and tarot reading, and perhaps even astral projection experiments.

But, unlike many others here, I'm a busy person with lots of work and things to do in my daily work, so the time I have to do such things are limited to specific periods now and then, thus why I'm frequently away for months without being active in here.

I actually make my living of traveling the world and researching various mysteries, both ancient and present, and try to find the connection between things, so I'm often away for longer periods due to that among other things.

But, as I see it now, I should be able to conduct an experiment such as outlined above within the next few coming weeks.

So just be patient and wait until I have the time, allright.

cheers

Take a breathe. I know you offered to have an experiment run on this board. I have offered to help in this in any way I can. I understand not having the time and being very busy. Trust me I know about this all too well. Take your time and get back with us on the experiment when you have time.

Now you also need to understand that the questions I asked above were not directed at you and you alone. My questions are broad ones and posed to anyone claiming or believing in these things. See my points? Why has no one seemingly stepped up? Surely if such powers are as widespread as some claim someone should have stepped up long before you Darkbreed and resolved this argument. This is the dilemma.....

Kevin A.

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