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itsnotoutthere

Who is allowed in.

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Quick question.

Who is allowed into the kingdom of Heaven after death.

Is it only people that are devoutly religious, who go to church & prey every day.

Do people who prey to God say once every week but never attend church go to Heaven?

Are people who never go to church, but tell them selves that they believe in a higher power get let in?

What about people that neither believe or disbelieve, people who have never decided, but maintain an open mind?

What do you think would be the criteria ?

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Quick question.

Who is allowed into the kingdom of Heaven after death.

Is it only people that are devoutly religious, who go to church & prey every day.

Do people who prey to God say once every week but never attend church go to Heaven?

Are people who never go to church, but tell them selves that they believe in a higher power get let in?

What about people that neither believe or disbelieve, people who have never decided, but maintain an open mind?

What do you think would be the criteria ?

Quick answer (from bible Scriptures): those who have God's spirit within them, before they die.

That said -- that question rally needs a long answer. :)

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From what I know the bible is pretty clear you believe in the bible & the idea that Jesus dided for you & your sins or you go to hell, sounds simple if you ask me.

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Quick question.

Who is allowed into the kingdom of Heaven after death.

Is it only people that are devoutly religious, who go to church & prey every day.

Do people who prey to God say once every week but never attend church go to Heaven?

Are people who never go to church, but tell them selves that they believe in a higher power get let in?

What about people that neither believe or disbelieve, people who have never decided, but maintain an open mind?

What do you think would be the criteria ?

In Christianity we believe it is those who accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

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Quick question.

Who is allowed into the kingdom of Heaven after death.

Is it only people that are devoutly religious, who go to church & prey every day.

Do people who prey to God say once every week but never attend church go to Heaven?

Are people who never go to church, but tell them selves that they believe in a higher power get let in?

What about people that neither believe or disbelieve, people who have never decided, but maintain an open mind?

What do you think would be the criteria ?

accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior...get baptised as an outward sign of your belief....your heart must be in it...daily devotion is best and it does not have to formal...praying once a week or 50 times a day does not matter if you heart is not in it...one thing i will point out, if your heart is really in your belief in Jesus you will find yourself wanting to do these things...what some consider a duty or effort will become a desire in you....

being devoutly religious will not do it...the Pharisees and Saducees were devoutly religious but they denied Jesus...i am sure some will be surprised on judgement day.

works alone will not get you in...just like going to church itself will not get you in...many people do these things, go through the motions but don't really believe...this will get you nowhere because Jesus knows your heart....

this is a decision that you have to make...if you make no decision and die then you are considered a "no".....

randomhit10

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Posted (edited)

In Christianity we believe it is those who accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

So by that definition if you believe in the above & your lifelong partner or wife & children did not share your beliefs & say you were all killed in a car smash, then presumably you would accend to heaven, & your loved ones would decend to hell spending an eternity in physical agony.

Would you still be in a state of bliss in heaven knowing this?

Would you still want to belong to that exclusive club?

Edited by itsnotoutthere

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So by that definition if you believe in the above & your lifelong partner or wife & children did not share your beliefs & say you were all killed in a car smash, then presumably you would accend to heaven, & your loved ones would decend to hell spending an eternity in physical agony.

Would you still be in a state of bliss in heaven knowing this?

Would you still want to belong to that exclusive club?

Well, what you write may well be what is believed by some "Christian believers". My take is quite different, and I don't expect too many people to believe what I believe. So -- taking a deep breath -- here are my thoughts on your scenario:

* The whole family killed in the car smash remain dead till Jesus returns.

* At Christ's return, the believer is resurrected as an immortal spirit being (thus becoming born-again child of God the Father), and meets Jesus "in the clouds". They all descend upon the Mount of Olives at Jerusalem.

* The resurrected, born-again children of God (now spirit beings) will "rule" the nations of the Earth for 1000 years.

* The rest of the dead remain dead (without any consciousness) during this 1000 years.

* After the 1000 year period, all other humans who ever lived are resurrected back to life, as mortal humans. They will be given total knowledge of the past history, and full memory of the role they lived out in their earlier life.

* From that point on, all these resurrected humans will have to make a choice: either to live according to God's way of life, or to choose otherwise. This is what I believe is the "time of judgment" -- their one and only time to choose "salvation" (eternal life as spirit beings); or to knowingly choose the second death.

* After an indeterminate period of time, those who have accepted God's way are also resurrected as spirit beings (children of God). The rest of mandkind remain as mortals. This planet then will be set on fire, and will burn till all is burned; and when all oxygen is consumed, the fire ends. This is the second death in the lake of fire for those who are left behind.

* Then "the new earth" -- this same planet renewed by God, etc., etc.

OK -- who wants to flesh out the script and submit it to Spielberg? B)

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Quick question.

Who is allowed into the kingdom of Heaven after death.

Is it only people that are devoutly religious, who go to church & prey every day.

Do people who prey to God say once every week but never attend church go to Heaven?

Are people who never go to church, but tell them selves that they believe in a higher power get let in?

What about people that neither believe or disbelieve, people who have never decided, but maintain an open mind?

What do you think would be the criteria ?

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved"

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Posted (edited)

So by that definition if you believe in the above & your lifelong partner or wife & children did not share your beliefs & say you were all killed in a car smash, then presumably you would accend to heaven, & your loved ones would decend to hell spending an eternity in physical agony.

Would you still be in a state of bliss in heaven knowing this?

Would you still want to belong to that exclusive club?

1 Corinthians 7

12To the rest I say this If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

Edited by preacherman76

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It depends on your path. If your a Christian you have to be a Christian, if your a Muslim you have to be a Muslim, if your a Buddhist I don't think they have a heaven as Abrahamic religions think of one, if your a Pagan most have you come back until you get it right or enter one realm for another. I think you move from plain to plain until find the one that is right for you. I don't worry about it much I figure what happens happens and no point in worrying about it. Live the life you have now to the fullest.

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So by that definition if you believe in the above & your lifelong partner or wife & children did not share your beliefs & say you were all killed in a car smash, then presumably you would accend to heaven, & your loved ones would decend to hell spending an eternity in physical agony.

Would you still be in a state of bliss in heaven knowing this?

Would you still want to belong to that exclusive club?

Isn't anyone gonna answer this one?

I once asked my ex if her parents were gonna be there....she said "of course" and I said: Then it aint really heaven......

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Quick question.

Who is allowed into the kingdom of Heaven after death.

Is it only people that are devoutly religious, who go to church & prey every day.

Do people who prey to God say once every week but never attend church go to Heaven?

Are people who never go to church, but tell them selves that they believe in a higher power get let in?

What about people that neither believe or disbelieve, people who have never decided, but maintain an open mind?

What do you think would be the criteria ?

The answer to this one from a Christian point of view the only ones that go to heaven have to believe in Christ. This however does not mean all that believe in Christ will go to heaven.

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Isn't anyone gonna answer this one?

I once asked my ex if her parents were gonna be there....she said "of course" and I said: Then it aint really heaven......

I did answer it. 3 posts up.

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So by that definition if you believe in the above & your lifelong partner or wife & children did not share your beliefs & say you were all killed in a car smash, then presumably you would accend to heaven, & your loved ones would decend to hell spending an eternity in physical agony.

Would you still be in a state of bliss in heaven knowing this?

Would you still want to belong to that exclusive club?

The short answer is yes.

The long answer from a Mormon point of view is. If you are married for life then the bonds end when one or both die.

If you are married for all eternity then the bond lasts into the next life and if one spouse goes to heaven both go.

Further if you are bonded to your children for eternity and if only one goes to heaven everyone goes.

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So Charles Manson goes to heaven if one of his parents do...

gotcha.....

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Posted (edited)

accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior...get baptised as an outward sign of your belief....your heart must be in it...daily devotion is best and it does not have to formal...praying once a week or 50 times a day does not matter if you heart is not in it...one thing i will point out, if your heart is really in your belief in Jesus you will find yourself wanting to do these things...what some consider a duty or effort will become a desire in you....

being devoutly religious will not do it...the Pharisees and Saducees were devoutly religious but they denied Jesus...i am sure some will be surprised on judgement day.

works alone will not get you in...just like going to church itself will not get you in...many people do these things, go through the motions but don't really believe...this will get you nowhere because Jesus knows your heart....

this is a decision that you have to make...if you make no decision and die then you are considered a "no".....

randomhit10

There's your answer.

Nice job randomhit!

Isn't anyone gonna answer this one?

I have always been taught from a early age that you will not know sorrow or pain in heaven, so if my loved one did not go to heaven with me then I would not know that consciously because that would cause me pain and sorrow and since these things will not exist.....

As for the other question, I trust in God and what His will may be.

Always a pleasure

Edited by sandee

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So Charles Manson goes to heaven if one of his parents do...

gotcha.....

Only if he is still a child, which he isnt. BTW Biblicaly you are no better than anyone. Once you have sinned one sin, you have sinned them all, and own your blood and soul to the law. Its funny how people are so quick to judge others, then point the finger at Christians for doing what they perceive to be the same.

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So Charles Manson goes to heaven if one of his parents do...

gotcha.....

If their bonded to him. Other wise he goes to outer darkness I assume. oh and manson isn't a mormon I don't think.

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Quick question.

Who is allowed into the kingdom of Heaven after death.

Is it only people that are devoutly religious, who go to church & prey every day.

Do people who prey to God say once every week but never attend church go to Heaven?

Are people who never go to church, but tell them selves that they believe in a higher power get let in?

What about people that neither believe or disbelieve, people who have never decided, but maintain an open mind?

What do you think would be the criteria ?

Hi itsnotoutthere,

What I think is better expressed in the text bellow:

WITHOUT THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION. WITHOUT TRUTH THERE IS NO SALVATION

8. The maxim - without charity there is no salvation - stands upon a universal principle and opens the door to supreme happiness for all of God's children, whereas the dogma - without the church there is no salvation - rests not upon a fundamental faith in God and the immortality of the soul, which is a belief common to all religion, but on a special faith, in particular dogmas, which are exclusive and absolute. Far from uniting God's children, it separates them. Instead of inciting them to love their brothers and sisters, it feeds upon and sanctions the irritations between various sectarians of the different cults, who reciprocally consider each other to be eternally damned, despite the fact that these same sectarians may be relations or friends. Therefore by despising the great law of equality in the presence of the tomb, it separates people one from another, even in the area of repose. The maxim without charity there is no salvation consecrates the principle of equality before God and freedom of conscience. By taking this as a norm, all men and women become brothers and sisters, whatever their way of worshipping the Creator, holding up their hands and praying for each other. But with the dogma - without the church there is no salvation - they excommunicate and persecute each other reciprocally, living as enemies. The father does not ask after his son, nor the son after his father, nor a friend after his friend, since they consider themselves mutually condemned without possible remission. Therefore it is a dogma which is essentially against the teaching of Christ and the evangelic laws.

9. Without truth there is no salvation is equal to without the church there is no salvation, being equally exclusive, since there is no one sect existing which does not claim to hold the privilege of truth. What man can boast of being in possession of all the truth when our sphere of knowledge is constantly enlarging and ideas are being rectified every day? The absolute truth is the patrimony of only the most elevated category of Spirits. Earthly humanity cannot allege the possession of it because it is not given to mankind to know everything. It is only permissible to aspire to relative truth which is proportionate to the level of progress. If God had made the possession of truth an express and absolute condition for future happiness, He would have pronounced a verdict of general condemnation; whereas charity, even in its most ample form, may be practised by all. Spiritism, in accordance with the Gospel, admits the possibility of salvation for every person, independently of any beliefs, granted that God's laws are observed. It does not say that without Spiritism there is no salvation, just as it does not intend to teach all the truth as yet. Neither does it say without truth there is no salvation because this maxim, instead of uniting would only separate and also perpetuate antagonisms.

INSTRUCTIONS FROM THE SPIRITS.

WITHOUT CHARITY THERE IS NO SALVATION

10. My children, within the sentence: Without charity there is no salvation, is enclosed the destiny of mankind, both on Earth and in Heaven. On Earth, because beneath the shadow of this banner all may live in peace, and in Heaven, because those who have practised it will find grace in God's eyes. This phrase is the celestial beacon, the luminous column, which will guide mankind in life's desert, putting all on the right path to the Promised Land. It shines in Heaven as a saintly halo on the brows of the chosen ones, and on Earth it is engraved on the hearts of those to whom Jesus has said: "Go to the right and receive the blessing of My Father". You will recognise them when they come by the aroma of charity that spreads around them. Nothing can indicate with more exactitude nor summarize so well mankind's obligations, as this divine maxim. Spiritism could not better prove its origin than present it as its rule, because it is a reflection of the most pure Christianity. Humanity will never go astray if it takes this as its guide. So then, my dear friends, dedicate yourselves to the understanding of the deep meaning behind these words and the consequences of their application and then discover for yourselves all the many ways in which they may be applied. Submit all your activities to be administered by charity and your conscience will respond. Not only will it cause you to avoid practising evil, but it will also make you practise goodness, in as much as a negative virtue is not enough; it is necessary to possess an active virtue. Therefore in order to do good there is always the need for the action of willpower, whereas in order to not practise evil it is sufficient to be inert or unconcerned.

My friends, give thanks to God for having permitted you to enjoy the enlightenment of Spiritism. Not that those who possess this enlightenment are the only ones who will be saved, but because it helps you to understand the teachings of Christ, so making you into better Christians. Therefore make every effort so that your fellow beings, on observing you, are induced to recognise that the true Spiritist and the true Christian are one and the same, given that all those who practise charity are the disciples of Jesus, without putting any embargo on whatever sect they may belong to. - PAUL, the Apostle (Paris, 1860).

Allan Kardec in The Gospel according to Spiritism (944kB) - Chapter 15 - WITHOUT CHARITY THERE IS NO SALVATION, pages 162-164.

About Charity:

886. What is the true meaning of the word charity as employed by Jesus?

"Benevolence for every one, indulgence for the imperfections of others, forgiveness of injuries."

Love and charity are the complement of the law of justice; for, to love our neighbour is to do him all the good in our power, all that we should wish to have done to ourselves.

Charity, according to Jesus, is not restricted to alms-giving, but embraces all our relations with our fellow-men whether our inferiors, our equals, or our superiors. It prescribes indulgence on our part, because we need the same ourselves; it forbids us to humiliate the unfortunate, as is too often done. How many, who are ready to lavish respect and attentions on the rich, appear to think it not worth their while to be civil to the poor; and yet, the more pitiable the situation of the latter, the more scrupulously should we refrain from adding humiliation to misfortune. He who is really kind endeavours to raise his inferior in his own estimation, by diminishing the distance between them.

Allan Kardec in The Spirits' Book (1.12MB) - question 886.

Best Regards.

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Posted (edited)

accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior...get baptised as an outward sign of your belief....your heart must be in it...daily devotion is best and it does not have to formal...praying once a week or 50 times a day does not matter if you heart is not in it...one thing i will point out, if your heart is really in your belief in Jesus you will find yourself wanting to do these things...what some consider a duty or effort will become a desire in you....

being devoutly religious will not do it...the Pharisees and Saducees were devoutly religious but they denied Jesus...i am sure some will be surprised on judgement day.

works alone will not get you in...just like going to church itself will not get you in...many people do these things, go through the motions but don't really believe...this will get you nowhere because Jesus knows your heart....

this is a decision that you have to make...if you make no decision and die then you are considered a "no".....

randomhit10

Then all those children that die at an age when they are unable to make an informed decision about God are doomed to the fires of hell, but a mass murderer can 'let god into his heart' & join the club,.......a tad unfair don't you think?

Edited by itsnotoutthere

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Posted (edited)

Then all those children that die at an age when they are unable to make an informed decision about God are doomed to the fires of hell, but a mass murderer can 'let god into his heart' & join the club,.......a tad unfair don't you think?

No, they will not be held accountable. Jesus said "forbid not the children to come unto me, for theres IS the kingdom of heaven." He also say "least ye hummble your selfs as a child you will not enter the kingdom."

Edited by preacherman76

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Then all those children that die at an age when they are unable to make an informed decision about God are doomed to the fires of hell, but a mass murderer can 'let god into his heart' & join the club,.......a tad unfair don't you think?

Hi itsnotoutthere -- I don't know if you noticed my answer to your OP; it is in post #2, and that is a biblical truth -- simple as that.

Regarding your above point -- you asked that question using quite a detailed illustration in post #6. Irrespective of my light-hearted last sentence in my post number #7, I did try to give a detailed thumb-nail sketch answer, which I thought covered every point that you raised, and even answered a few more related points.

As an afterthought; were you looking for answers based on bible Scriptures, other philosophies, or answers based on any ideas that simply "sound reasonable"?

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have a small idea of God ? only a few get in and under certain rules.

God that is indescribable , all knowing ect............ we all get in no matter what. since all goes the way God planned it too.

pretty simple. mans ego keeps God small.

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If you think of heaven as a state of evolution then it is not only good but a needed step to take if there is going to be any future for the species.

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Don't worry, Heaven doesn't actually exist.

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