Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
BlindMessiah

Does the Quran Justify Terrorism

53 posts in this topic

Being a scholar of the Bible, I'm familiar with where radical Christians come up with their ideology, however, having never read the Quran, do any parts of it justify terrorism? I thought this would be a good discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Being a scholar of the Bible, I'm familiar with where radical Christians come up with their ideology, however, having never read the Quran, do any parts of it justify terrorism? I thought this would be a good discussion.

I'm going to throw my two pence in on this one, though I think it would be a better idea to wait for Ozi or Darklight etc. Anyways, it doesn't. The verses that the terrorists use, to my understanding, are taken WAY out of context. The Qu'ran does not sanction terrorism, terrorists adapt the Qu'ran to make it work for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm going to throw my two pence in on this one, though I think it would be a better idea to wait for Ozi or Darklight etc. Anyways, it doesn't. The verses that the terrorists use, to my understanding, are taken WAY out of context. The Qu'ran does not sanction terrorism, terrorists adapt the Qu'ran to make it work for them.

Then why don't the Muslim people condemn terrorists and put an end to them? Without the support of the Muslim people, they surely couldn't be a serious threat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Then why don't the Muslim people condemn terrorists and put an end to them? Without the support of the Muslim people, they surely couldn't be a serious threat.

Fear? I have no idea. You know Ozi is going to say that no real Muslims actually support terrorism. The great cop out of all religion "Well if they were a real (insert religion here) they wouldn't do that".

Blah, in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm going to throw my two pence in on this one, though I think it would be a better idea to wait for Ozi or Darklight etc. Anyways, it doesn't. The verses that the terrorists use, to my understanding, are taken WAY out of context. The Qu'ran does not sanction terrorism, terrorists adapt the Qu'ran to make it work for them.

I asked a similar question in the Fitna thread yesterday. I am very confused, as the religion is followed in a stringent fashion. Prayers said 5 times a day.

Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

This verse seems rather violent, how is this mitigated into a peacful teaching? It seems fairly straightforward? Many very similar examples exist. I am not passing judgement, but seeking clarification. Such immensley different cultures surely have many such barriers to scale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Then why don't the Muslim people condemn terrorists and put an end to them? Without the support of the Muslim people, they surely couldn't be a serious threat.

the majority of muslims do condemn terrorism.

too expect one portion of islam to ''stop'' terrorism is plain ridikulous. why dont the majority of the human race stop the other minority from killing millions of people?

bcoz its not possible. to assign blame to a whole religion because a minority of people within it commit heinous acts is short sighted. why dont most christians stop right wing extremists killing doctors who perfrom abortions. because certain people will do wotever they want and use there religion/beliefs to justify it. terrorism will continue to happen regardless of wot the larger islamic community say or do. its an infinitly more complex issue than im able to explain.

i know my spelling is awful. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im sure you will find that with koran, exactly like the bible, you could interperate what ever you want to say what ever you want, its simple, of course there is stuff which you could interperate as supporting "terrorism", just as the christians do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2:193 Hence, fight against them until there is no more opprossion and all worship is devoted to God alone but if they desist then all hostillity shall cease, save against those who willfully do wrong.

I used this line on purpose because it's meaning is that muslims to practice their faith how they want to do it freely, without outside influence and to justify to it's believers that their faith is better then everybody else and to kill them at the first sign of trouble for the freedom of islam to flourish.

Also unlike the bible, the koran is believed by muslims to be the recited words of their god, so it can never be changed or called into question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm going to throw my two pence in on this one, though I think it would be a better idea to wait for Ozi or Darklight etc. Anyways, it doesn't. The verses that the terrorists use, to my understanding, are taken WAY out of context. The Qu'ran does not sanction terrorism, terrorists adapt the Qu'ran to make it work for them.

I suggest you check out some of the sources that Seanph has posted in the "which Koran?" thread. There is a very insightful and interesting source concerning taking things from the Koran out of context and of the interpretation of violence in the Koran.

Ibn Warraq on How to Debate a Muslim

http://www.challenging-islam.org/articles/...ate-muslims.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I asked a similar question in the Fitna thread yesterday. I am very confused, as the religion is followed in a stringent fashion. Prayers said 5 times a day.

Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

This verse seems rather violent, how is this mitigated into a peacful teaching? It seems fairly straightforward? Many very similar examples exist. I am not passing judgement, but seeking clarification. Such immensley different cultures surely have many such barriers to scale.

Surah 8 was revealed in 2 A.H.; when the Battle of Badr was taking place. The ayat you have quoted is made in reference to battling the Meccans.

2:193 Hence, fight against them until there is no more opprossion and all worship is devoted to God alone but if they desist then all hostillity shall cease, save against those who willfully do wrong.

I used this line on purpose because it's meaning is that muslims to practice their faith how they want to do it freely, without outside influence and to justify to it's believers that their faith is better then everybody else and to kill them at the first sign of trouble for the freedom of islam to flourish.

Also unlike the bible, the koran is believed by muslims to be the recited words of their god, so it can never be changed or called into question.

2:190 "Fight in the cause of Allah with those who fight against you, but do not exceed the limits. Allah does not like transgressors."

2:191 "Kill them wherever they confront you in combat and drive them out of the places from which they have driven you. Though killing is bad, creating mischief is worse than killing. Do not fight them within the precincts of the Al-Masjid-al-Haram unless they attack you there; but if they attack you, put them to the sword that is the punishment for such unbelievers."

2:192 "If they cease hostility, then surly, Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By what you're trying to say in those quotes, Muhammad himself would be against islam for his terrorism, raids, assassinations, murders and theiving. :tu:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Surah 8 was revealed in 2 A.H.; when the Battle of Badr was taking place. The ayat you have quoted is made in reference to battling the Meccans.

2:190 "Fight in the cause of Allah with those who fight against you, but do not exceed the limits. Allah does not like transgressors."

2:191 "Kill them wherever they confront you in combat and drive them out of the places from which they have driven you. Though killing is bad, creating mischief is worse than killing. Do not fight them within the precincts of the Al-Masjid-al-Haram unless they attack you there; but if they attack you, put them to the sword that is the punishment for such unbelievers."

2:192 "If they cease hostility, then surly, Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

From what I have seen from the telly, education is at a premium. How is the meaning conveyed to the average person?

With regular killings in the community (for being raped, committing adultery, naming a Teddy Bear) it would seem the vast majority of constituents tend to take the (approximately 350?) such verses litterally as a part of everyday life.

This verse does not sound merciful

Sura (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah. But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Sura (47:4) - "So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,"

When one reads the news to see stories like this

Iran Human Rights, February 14: A 14 years old girl, identified as Saeedeh, has been stoned to death by her own father, reported the daily newspaper Qods yesterday. According to the report, the father who is identified as Mohammad Sharif told the authorities that when he found out about his 14 years old daughter’s relationship with a boy, he took Saeedeh to the mountains around the city of zahedan and killed her by stoning and then shooting four bullets at her. His friend, identified as Gholam, accompanied and helped him, according to the daily. Both of them were reportedly arrested.

Source

it would appear that the majority of followers take the verses litterally. This is the sort of thing one see's often (like the tedy fiasco) that makes one rather concerened and worried about one's neighbours intentions. I have seen many time religious heads in my own country inciting violence. One name that comes to mind is Sheik Feiz Mohamed's radical sermons on calling young people to the Jihad.

How do I know who takes the teachings litterally, and who knows how to interpret them safely?

Thank you for your time. I wish to know more.

Edited by psyche101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing is that those who take the verses literally/out of context are uneducated and poisoned by equally uneducated and dangerous Imams. Not every christian is a expert on the bible (it's hard to be, the dam book is always changing) just like not every muslims (espically in places where religous study is for the wealthy) is in expert on the quran, they are fed bits and pieces as they grow..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The thing is that those who take the verses literally/out of context are uneducated and poisoned by equally uneducated and dangerous Imams. Not every christian is a expert on the bible (it's hard to be, the dam book is always changing) just like not every muslims (espically in places where religous study is for the wealthy) is in expert on the quran, they are fed bits and pieces as they grow..

The Bible is not taken litterally by the majority of it's readers. The Roman Catholic Church teaches evolution as opposed to theism. The Thirty Years War in the 1600's, and then the following Enlightenment led the West to divorce religion and state, thereby removing (mostly) the threat of religious-based warfare. This seems to have not happened to Islam. Can the two be seperated in it's current form?

Sheik Feiz Mohamed seems an educated man, why would he be inciting youngsters to take up on his violent crusade against the West?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The thing is that those who take the verses literally/out of context are uneducated and poisoned by equally uneducated and dangerous Imams. Not every christian is a expert on the bible (it's hard to be, the dam book is always changing) just like not every muslims (espically in places where religous study is for the wealthy) is in expert on the quran, they are fed bits and pieces as they grow..

I quite agree and its interesting to think that actually a large amount of the Muslims around the world cannot actually read Arabic. So when they are reciting parts of the Koran in the mosques they actually have no concept of what they are talking about!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I quite agree and its interesting to think that actually a large amount of the Muslims around the world cannot actually read Arabic. So when they are reciting parts of the Koran in the mosques they actually have no concept of what they are talking about!

So, how do they discern spiritual guidance from slaughter?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, how do they discern spiritual guidance from slaughter?

That my friend is the major problem is it not!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I believe the main problem with Islam is not the Quran (nor its interpretation), but the combination of envy of the western world, uneducated crowds and economical and political despair. When unhappy, the rats find a way to misinterpret, or bend any book, be it Quran or bible.

Extremists, or fundamantelists, only thrive when the masses can be animated due to discomfort with their current (economical and political) situation. This was the case for Nazisism and Communism. Combine all this with a totalitarian leader (Iraq, the Tribe leaders in Afghanistan, Iran?) and you have a pretty nifty soup ready to boil over. The worst problem I perceive with terrorism, is the fact that it is largely condoned by individuals, yet does not miss its large impact due to the horrendous form of attacks (suicide bombings come to mind). One single radicalist, can kill so many due to their guerillia system, that only few are needed to create an incident that travels the world of our media.

Due to our media, this sort of "warfare" creates an image of endless amount of followers, but this is incorrect, we should not evaluate the amount of followers according to the impact of the incident.

Edited by Pascal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Islam doesn't justify violence at all. It's a very peaceful religion.

Edited by wizzosis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fear? I have no idea. You know Ozi is going to say that no real Muslims actually support terrorism. The great cop out of all religion "Well if they were a real (insert religion here) they wouldn't do that".

Blah, in my opinion.

Can I just say that there's so much more straightforward violence in the Bible. The christian religion is by far the most violent one. It JUSTIFIES violence. Look at the crucifixion of Jesus not to mention the crusades in Jerusalem and the romans attempt to christianize the celts and the viking.

Sorry to insult people but it's true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I believe the main problem with Islam is not the Quran (nor its interpretation), but the combination of envy of the western world, uneducated crowds and economical and political despair. When unhappy, the rats find a way to misinterpret, or bend any book, be it Quran or bible.

Extremists, or fundamantelists, only thrive when the masses can be animated due to discomfort with their current (economical and political) situation. This was the case for Nazisism and Communism. Combine all this with a totalitarian leader (Iraq, the Tribe leaders in Afghanistan, Iran?) and you have a pretty nifty soup ready to boil over. The worst problem I perceive with terrorism, is the fact that it is largely condoned by individuals, yet does not miss its large impact due to the horrendous form of attacks (suicide bombings come to mind). One single radicalist, can kill so many due to their guerillia system, that only few are needed to create an incident that travels the world of our media.

Due to our media, this sort of "warfare" creates an image of endless amount of followers, but this is incorrect, we should not evaluate the amount of followers according to the impact of the incident.

What about the day to day followers in the general community. A quick Google will show that it is quite legal to kill your daughter for dating the wrong guy, or your sister for getting a ride with somebody she is not married to, or your mother is she has an affair. It seems to happen on a very regular basis. There are even stoning sizing guidelines, so the stoning is not over too quickly, or prolonged. The stone is to be just the right size. I just cannot wrap my head around a governing body advocating such actions.

Are these individuals carrying out their religion to the book, or their learned interpretation of it? If the Quran (Koran - what is the preferred designation?, is there one?) is not meant to be interpreted litterally, why contain so many graphic violent references? Why recite the violence five times a day? Surely this is having some effect? Is the media playing these events up?

Edited by psyche101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Islam doesn't justify violence at all. It's a very peaceful religion.

Can you please extrapolate? This is very vaugue. One might say ridiculously so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can I just say that there's so much more straightforward violence in the Bible. The christian religion is by far the most violent one. It JUSTIFIES violence. Look at the crucifixion of Jesus not to mention the crusades in Jerusalem and the romans attempt to christianize the celts and the viking.

Sorry to insult people but it's true.

That is not an insult, it is true.

However, during the Thirty Year War, (between 1618 and 1648), and then the following Enlightenment led the West to divorce religion and state, thereby mostly removing the threat of religious-based warfare.

Christians no longer crucify people, or organise crusades. Scientology and other cults have taken over the killing aspect of Western society in attempts to convert, albeit behind closed doors these days. Christians recieve no reward, but contempt from their peers and incaceration for murder. Try saying, "the Bible allows it" to justify an honor killing in a Western courtroom. You will get away with insanity at best. If a Muslim commits an honor killing, as I understand that part of the world, he walks. Religion still talkes on a large part of the justice system. Western people think their religion is a historical record, this part of the world seems to think their historical record is a religion. Seems like that to me?

Have you read the Bible? The Crucifixion of Jesus was not condoned, it made many cry. It was his sacrirfice to wash away sin. I am not saying for you to believe that, I am just saying you seem to have a mixed interpretation to most of the people I know. Your facts seem somewhat awry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just think the media sheds a very different and cruel light on Islam. Just like the bible it's up to each individual to interpret it as he/she wishes. As I've understood it, Islam is very much about taking care of the people around you and very family orientated. Us in the west just don't understand it and haven't been taught enough about it. There's always extremist groups in every religion, in christianity and hinduism as well. It doesn't mean we're allowed to judge an entire religion. People aren't the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can you please extrapolate? This is very vaugue. One might say ridiculously so.

That's just my way of interpreting it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.