Why no proof?

[Moonie2012]

So. We have a rather large group of people here that claim to have various psi powers, yet not a single piece of good evidence (that I've ever seen).

Why is this? Let's examine some various arguments as to why this is.

1. "It's not my job to prove it" - this excuse doesn't cut it. It IS your job to prove any claims you make, other wise they are nothing but that - claims.

2. "Nobody will believe me, they will say I faked it" - also not a good excuse. If you are careful, plan and document your experiment well, there should be no room for mistakes. The test should have clear, visible results.

3. "I don't need to prove it, because I know it's real" - please see #1.

Now, I know if I discovered I had some special power that could be proven, I would stop at nothing to prove it, skeptics be damned. I would document the evidence and provide it, and if people still want to call fake I would just provide better evidence. If they still don't believe, hey - at least I tried, which is far more than can be said about the majority (if not all) of the claimants here.

If you want people to believe (as I believe all posters who claim psi powers do, otherwise why post at all), the burden of proof is on you. Seeing as how even the most easily proven claims have yet to be shown, the only conclusion I can come up with is either people are lying, or they are mistaken. I can understand if somebody has these powers and wants to be quiet about it, but with all the claims we have here I can't help but think at least ONE of the claimants would be excited enough about it to provide evidence - which they don't.

Therefore, in my opinion, it's all fantasy/lies/in people's heads, and until I see ANY evidence to go on, I have no choice but to think this.

If anybody has a better excuse (other than 1, 2, or 3 and variations thereof) on why there's no evidence, I'd love to hear it. I'd also like to see any evidence that people have posted/found.

Edited May 5, 2008 by Moonie2012

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

Don't hold your breath waiting. I have been asking for evidence for over 3 years for all these claims. NOT one has ever been backed up.

[drakonwick]

Notice most of these claimants are:

1.) Teenagers, for whom want something cool.

2.) Religious, ie. they follow beliefs based on a book that requires faith.

3.) All the above.

There are possibly quite a few reasonings. But, you get the gist.

Personally, I feel there are to many people that take an odd happening, and blow it way out of proportion.

Or they do not understand all the parameters that come into play. (ie. physics).

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

Notice most of these claimants are:

1.) Teenagers, for whom want something cool.

2.) Religious, ie. they follow beliefs based on a book that requires faith.

3.) All the above.

There are possibly quite a few reasonings. But, you get the gist.

Personally, I feel there are to many people that take an odd happening, and blow it way out of proportion.

Or they do not understand all the parameters that come into play. (ie. physics).

[Sporkling]

So. We have a rather large group of people here that claim to have various psi powers, yet not a single piece of good evidence (that I've ever seen).

Why is this? Let's examine some various arguments as to why this is.

1. "It's not my job to prove it" - this excuse doesn't cut it. It IS your job to prove any claims you make, other wise they are nothing but that - claims.

And claims. Whats wrong with a claim? Nothing but a claim yes. But I believe. Other people on this board believe. We talk, share opinions. Why should I spend my precious time making a vid when I could be doing other more useful things. And making a video for skeptics is on very high on my "do list". And speaking about the "its your job" why should it be. I have better things to do than to make people believe. HAving a few more people to believe is not what I want, nor what I wish for.

2. "Nobody will believe me, they will say I faked it" - also not a good excuse. If you are careful, plan and document your experiment well, there should be no room for mistakes. The test should have clear, visible results.

Its quite true. There are so many ways in which a video can be faked. No matter what it is. The science in which we all hold in such high esteem is the cause of photoshop, invsisible string. And so many others. As long as there is a possiblity, there is a way in which people can call foul. Therefore, how can a video prove anything?

3. "I don't need to prove it, because I know it's real" - please see #1.

Ahh the usual. Of course. If I know its real its not enough. But the believers here do believe. Which is more than enough for me. Skeptics, making a thread to ask for a vid, Not the first time, Nor will it be the last. But it won't work. Edited May 6, 2008 by Saru
Fixed quote tags

[WiCkEdWENDIGO]

So. We have a rather large group of people here that claim to have various psi powers, yet not a single piece of good evidence (that I've ever seen).

Why is this? Let's examine some various arguments as to why this is.

1. "It's not my job to prove it" - this excuse doesn't cut it. It IS your job to prove any claims you make, other wise they are nothing but that - claims.

2. "Nobody will believe me, they will say I faked it" - also not a good excuse. If you are careful, plan and document your experiment well, there should be no room for mistakes. The test should have clear, visible results.

3. "I don't need to prove it, because I know it's real" - please see #1.

Now, I know if I discovered I had some special power that could be proven, I would stop at nothing to prove it, skeptics be damned. I would document the evidence and provide it, and if people still want to call fake I would just provide better evidence. If they still don't believe, hey - at least I tried, which is far more than can be said about the majority (if not all) of the claimants here.

If you want people to believe (as I believe all posters who claim psi powers do, otherwise why post at all), the burden of proof is on you. Seeing as how even the most easily proven claims have yet to be shown, the only conclusion I can come up with is either people are lying, or they are mistaken. I can understand if somebody has these powers and wants to be quiet about it, but with all the claims we have here I can't help but think at least ONE of the claimants would be excited enough about it to provide evidence - which they don't.

Therefore, in my opinion, it's all fantasy/lies/in people's heads, and until I see ANY evidence to go on, I have no choice but to think this.

If anybody has a better excuse (other than 1, 2, or 3 and variations thereof) on why there's no evidence, I'd love to hear it. I'd also like to see any evidence that people have posted/found.

let me sleep over and ill let ya know if there is anything there.....i only dream about things when im sleeping in a certain place where something happend

[Sporkling]

If you want people to believe (as I believe all posters who claim psi powers do, otherwise why post at all), the burden of proof is on you. Seeing as how even the most easily proven claims have yet to be shown, the only conclusion I can come up with is either people are lying, or they are mistaken. I can understand if somebody has these powers and wants to be quiet about it, but with all the claims we have here I can't help but think at least ONE of the claimants would be excited enough about it to provide evidence - which they don't.

Well actually its like this. Quiet means you want people to know about it. But in a more secret sense. Because its like good to have a special ability and have people discuss with them about it than say it outright in the real world.

Therefore, in my opinion, it's all fantasy/lies/in people's heads, and until I see ANY evidence to go on, I have no choice but to think this.

There is no such thing as no choice for, in life, there is always a choice Edited May 6, 2008 by Saru
Fixed quote tags

[WiCkEdWENDIGO]

see i dont blame it on any of that i blame it if i was there i would but i can only dream im only right 85% of the time

[Moonie2012]

Sporkling, your random nonsensical posts aren't needed here, thanks - unless you have some proof, you're just yelling excuses into the wind.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Moonie2012

[Sporkling]

If anybody has a better excuse (other than 1, 2, or 3 and variations thereof) on why there's no evidence, I'd love to hear it.

I wonder why you ask if you don't want to be told.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Sporkling

[Moonie2012]

I wonder why you ask if you don't want to be told.

I do want to be told - unfortunately, your garden variety excuses and nonsense isn't the truth - at least in the sense of why people don't post videos and other proof of their "powers".

The real reason they don't - it's all nonsense, and anybody who believes all these stories with absolutely no proof is the definition of foolish.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Moonie2012

[Sporkling]

I do want to be told - unfortunately, your garden variety excuses and nonsense isn't the truth - at least in the sense of why people don't post videos and other proof of their "powers".

The real reason they don't - it's all nonsense.

It is the truth moon, at least, in my eyes. In my postion, things are different. However, this does not imply that what i've said is nonsense. Because what i've said is what I think is the reason people don't show their powers. And its what you are asking for. Maybe if you don't wish to be misunderstood, you can say what you want to hear instead of something so vague like " i want to know about other excuses".

[Moonie2012]

It is the truth moon, at least, in my eyes. In my postion, things are different. However, this does not imply that what i've said is nonsense. Because what i've said is what I think is the reason people don't show their powers. And its what you are asking for. Maybe if you don't wish to be misunderstood, you can say what you want to hear instead of something so vague like " i want to know about other excuses".

I have no need to respond to you anymore, as you never have anything good to offer to these discussions, only rambling excuses and trivial arguments - sorry.

Believe what you want - it doesn't make you right.

Later.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Moonie2012

[WiCkEdWENDIGO]

never really said i have powers i just see dead people in dreams and go tell people idk if its real im just oddly right alot

[WiCkEdWENDIGO]

also its like proving what jesus did u eaither belive it or you dont..or like love or god....or why an bannana isnt spelled banana

[Rosewin]

Sporkling, your random nonsensical posts aren't needed here, thanks - unless you have some proof, you're just yelling excuses into the wind.

Everyone's view is welcome and the only control I believe an OP of a thread has is requesting it be closed. Seeing that Sporkling for the most shares your skepticism I do not see what the issue is?

I do agree with him though that the burden of proof is on you. If someone were to say they can prove it to you then it would be on them.

1. "It's not my job to prove it" - this excuse doesn't cut it. It IS your job to prove any claims you make, other wise they are nothing but that - claims.

2. "Nobody will believe me, they will say I faked it" - also not a good excuse. If you are careful, plan and document your experiment well, there should be no room for mistakes. The test should have clear, visible results.

3. "I don't need to prove it, because I know it's real" - please see #1.

1. It really is not up to them to prove it, it is not up to anyone if they are simply sharing their views or an account of events, even if their views include that they have personally witnessed or demonstrated psi in the past.

2. Most of the time the paranormal or psi is not an on demand phenomena but happens when it happens. This is why it falls outside of mainstream science which does require repeatable controlled observations. Maybe someone will volunteer and you can follow them around with a documentary team so when it does happen it will? Either way the effort is the one who wants to prove or disprove not someone simply sharing their views.

3. "I don't need to prove it, because I know it's real" sounds to me like they are not wishing to prove their views but just share them. Nothing wrong with that on the forum.

kthxbye

Edited May 6, 2008 by Clovis

[Sporkling]

I have no need to respond to you anymore, as you never have anything good to offer to these discussions, only rambling excuses and trivial arguments - sorry.

Believe what you want - it doesn't make you right.

Later.

And to this sentence, I can also say "disbelieve what you want, it does not make you right". Because indeed, can you actually say you know you are right? I doubt that.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Sporkling

[Moonie2012]

Everyone's view is welcome and the only control I believe an OP of a thread has is requesting it be closed. Seeing that Sporkling for the most shares your skepticism I do not see what the issue is?

I do agree with him though that the burden of proof is on you. If someone were to say they can prove it to you then it would be on them.

Sporkling has said he believes everything he reads - that's skepticism?

And no, I don't have any control over who posts, obviously - requesting that people don't post nonsense and regurgitated excuses is all I can do.

kthxbye

Edited May 6, 2008 by Moonie2012

[Saru]

Can we keep this civil please, if you disagree with another member's point of view then you are welcome to do so but rather than simply branding their response as 'nonsense' elaborate on it, address the points that have been raised and provide a solid counter argument.

[Moonie2012]

Can we keep this civil please, if you disagree with another member's point of view then you are welcome to do so but rather than simply branding their response as 'nonsense' elaborate on it, address the points that have been raised and provide a solid counter argument.

I would try and I agree, but some of the points and posts are so badly worded and incomprehensible that I wouldn't know where to start.

I'll drop it, as it's better that I just ignore them and keep the conversation on track.

[Saru]

I think Sporkling is actually having some trouble with the quote feature which is why the posts in question are difficult to read, i'll go ahead and repair the quote tags.

[Bella-Angelique]

What ever happened to the man who could make images on film with his mind?

Last I heard he had passed every test.

Anyone know?

[drakonwick]

Everyone's view is welcome and the only control I believe an OP of a thread has is requesting it be closed. Seeing that Sporkling for the most shares your skepticism I do not see what the issue is?

I do agree with him though that the burden of proof is on you. If someone were to say they can prove it to you then it would be on them.

1. It really is not up to them to prove it, it is not up to anyone if they are simply sharing their views or an account of events, even if their views include that they have personally witnessed or demonstrated psi in the past.

2. Most of the time the paranormal or psi is not an on demand phenomena but happens when it happens. This is why it falls outside of mainstream science which does require repeatable controlled observations. Maybe someone will volunteer and you can follow them around with a documentary team so when it does happen it will? Either way the effort is the one who wants to prove or disprove not someone simply sharing their views.

3. "I don't need to prove it, because I know it's real" sounds to me like they are not wishing to prove their views but just share them. Nothing wrong with that on the forum.

kthxbye

I will have to disagree, as there is a difference between bolstering a claim, and sharing a view point.

[Aztec Warrior]

I can think of one reason why someone with special powers might want to keep it hidden. Just imagine how much money they could rack in with the lotteries, horse racing etc. Funny how NONE of these lucky winners ever say they have special psychic powers.

[darksoul_]

I'm not going to comment on "powers" such as telekinesis,telepathy and whatever "ability" some ppl might have.

Simply cause I'm not familiar with it much nor have I tried to develop it. (mainly cause its implications in real life are quite obsolete & useless)

The thing I can comment on tho is "powers" such as "hermetic alchemy","mental transmutation","magick","astral travel",etc

the "powers" if you wish to call it like that that allow you to influence,sense certain aspects of our reality.

The problem with these is that eventhough there is enough evidence in the sense of mostly anecdotal,ancient writings,common logic,self-experience etc

They cannot be proven 100% scientificaly yet.

Quantum Physics are SLOWLY starting to catch up with the way the universe functions,but even then most cannot be completely verified without the use of personal & spiritual development.

f.e quantum physics is slowly discovering more & more about quantum entanglement,teleportation and the likes.

If you put this in perspective with f.e the kybalion & the 7 hermetic principles

you will see that certain aspects of quantum theories & consciousness theories are slowly moving into ideas & theories that correspond with certain aspects of the hermetic principles (vibrations f.e)

But then you come right down to the biggest problem with most scientists.

they refuse to accept what the spiritual teachers have been stating for MILLENIA,and try to ridicule most scientists or professors who DO see the correspondance with old teachings,on various fields.

One can only truly discover this through their own personal & spiritual development cause modern "generaly accepted" philosophy & science has yet to completely discover & prove these exact things.

Quantum physics is an area of particular interest mainly because of this.

Scientists just need some time to discover how stuff works in this quantum world ^^

but as I said,they are more & more pointing towards it.

edit:sorry for bad grammar etc,not in the mood to correct it!

Edited May 6, 2008 by darksoul_