Pre-Maori New Zealand?

[Mortiis]

Hi all, my name's Scott. This is my first post to this here forum, and hopefully everyone

will welcome me!

I am an author, been writing now consistently for over twenty years, and I have recently

decided to begin research for a huge multi-volume fantasy series which I am going to be

writing, set in Australia and New Zealand.

The thing is, information on Pre-Maori history here in my country (NZ) is very hard to come

by, even in this day and age of the internet!

If anyone has some information or site links that they could post up which they think might

be of use, please do!

Cheers!

Scott

x

[Plainbob13]

Ask some of the Maori there. I have never heard of a group of people there before them. thats my 2 cents, sorry could not be more help.

[Mortiis]

Hi all, my name's Scott. This is my first post to this here forum, and hopefully everyone

will welcome me!

I am an author, been writing now consistently for over twenty years, and I have recently

decided to begin research for a huge multi-volume fantasy series which I am going to be

writing, set in Australia and New Zealand.

The thing is, information on Pre-Maori history here in my country (NZ) is very hard to come

by, even in this day and age of the internet!

If anyone has some information or site links that they could post up which they think might

be of use, please do!

Cheers!

Scott

x

Hahaha, the Maori people here will ALWAYS consider themselves first, but scientific and forensic proof

actually paints a very different picture. They may have been the first colonized people here, but they were

certainly not the FIRST arrived.

Any more help?? Anyone!?

Edited May 19, 2008 by Mortiis

[Stricken]

I, personally, would have no idea. But you should try going to your local library there might be something hopefully..

[Mortiis]

Hahaha, the Maori people here will ALWAYS consider themselves first, but scientific and forensic proof

actually paints a very different picture. They may have been the first colonized people here, but they were

certainly not the FIRST arrived.

Any more help?? Anyone!?

Hey, that's a good idea, or WOULD be if we didn't live in such a secretive country that likes hiding

behind everything. Every bit of New Zealand's history is hidden behind all kinds of walls, and it's

hard to find anything which is concrete!

[Leonardo]

You are, perhaps, referring to the Moriori?

There seems to be no evidence these people ever colonised the 'mainland' of New Zealand before the Maori, and I can find no other speculation about earlier indigenous peoples.

Welcome to UM, btw. Hope you like it here!

[Kereru]

Hi Scott,

There are a few things to get you started.

Apparently there is a wall that has stirred up all sorts of drama. It's called the kaimanawa wall, as it's in the kaimanawa ranges in the Waikato. Look further into it and you'll find some interesting stuff. The local maori are highly protective of the area for the obvious reason. Someone I know made a doco on the subject of pre-maori NZ and explained that the local tribes go to some pretty serious lengths to keep people away.

http://www.mysteriousnewzealand.co.nz/phot...um=5&pos=14

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf107/sf107p00.htm

There's a researcher who put out a book about a decade ago who believed that the phonetician's made it here way back in the day. He reckoned he found some carvings on some hill next to lake Taupo that left him convinced. If you look around you'll probably be able to find the book. Here's a link

http://www.kilts.co.nz/mitancient_2.htm

http://www.celticnz.co.nz/Bes&Taranis.htm

Hope that gets you started. Good luck!

Edited May 19, 2008 by Kereru

[Undeadskeptic]

Hahaha, the Maori people here will ALWAYS consider themselves first, but scientific and forensic proof

actually paints a very different picture. They may have been the first colonized people here, but they were

certainly not the FIRST arrived.

Any more help?? Anyone!?

You clearly understand very little about the supposed evidence of pre-Maori peoples on NZ. I suggest reading Oddzone by Vicki Hyde which explores the alternative archeaology of NZ in depth and rationally. NOTHING at all has been found which suggests anyone was here before the Maori, and if there's no evidence you don't have a theory. Do not go around waving your silly nosense based on dubious sources as fact. Until convinced otherwise, the Maori arrived first. ALL the evdence supports that.

[Pax Unum]

You clearly understand very little about the supposed evidence of pre-Maori peoples on NZ. I suggest reading Oddzone by Vicki Hyde which explores the alternative archeaology of NZ in depth and rationally. NOTHING at all has been found which suggests anyone was here before the Maori, and if there's no evidence you don't have a theory. Do not go around waving your silly nosense based on dubious sources as fact. Until convinced otherwise, the Maori arrived first. ALL the evdence supports that.

I agree, there isn't any 'credible' evidence anyone was in New Zealand prior to the Polynesian voyages between AD 800 and 1300... IMO

[Undeadskeptic]

I agree, there isn't any 'credible' evidence anyone was in New Zealand prior to the Polynesian voyages between AD 800 and 1300... IMO

Don't bother with opinion bro, you're absolutely right. There is no evidence for this moronic theory. It's possible that, hypothetically, it was seen/observed by some other culture at one point before that but otherwise no evidence = its just silly rubbish.

[The Maharaja]

I think the question here is what are the motives of the op

Edited May 20, 2008 by The Maharaja

[crystal sage]

My previous exploration on the topic...

http://book-of-thoth.com/ftopicp-190628.html#190628

Or this site I just found...

http://www.rexgilroy.com/uru_chapter14.html

http://www.rexgilroy.com/

http://www.mysteriousaustralia.com/Mysteri...a_Homepage.html

Edited May 22, 2008 by crystal sage

[crystal sage]

Could there be a link between the Uru civilization and that or Ur?

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/archaeology/si...le_east/ur.html

Maybe the Uru's were pre Ur or part of the Lemuria civilization.. Look at the puzzling history fo Micronesia..

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread98945/pg2

Micronesian Islands Colonized By Small-bodied Humans

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/...80310151958.htm

Edited May 22, 2008 by crystal sage

[rezna]

We're talking about NZ, which is next to Australia... right? Um.. didn't people start inhabiting Australia at least 50,000 years ago, and why would they just ignore NZ, which was accessible by a land bridge back then... I'm confused.

[crystal sage]

There are rumors of many pre Maori peoples living in New Zealand.,..

Chinese mining of iron, greenstone, silver and gold in pre-Maori New Zealand

http://www.1421.tv/pages/evidence/content.asp?EvidenceID=263

The Kaimanawa Wall

Evidence of pre Maori civilizations?

http://www.mysteriousnewzealand.co.nz/

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread263830/pg1

http://www.celticnz.co.nz/AucklandAlignment4.htm

There were, at least, three distinct physical types of Patu-paiarehe living in New Zealand, ranging from the very tall people (around 7 to 8 feet in height...2.4 metres), to people of normal stature, to the very small white pygmy people with golden-white hair and large blue eyes. The small stature Turehu were a particularly attractive childlike people with very fine features and they are referred to as "Te Whanau O Rangi" (the people of heaven) in Maori oral tradition. These small people once populated countries like Ireland and traditions concerning their occupation of the Pacific range from Tahiti to New Caledonia to New Zealand.

Edited May 22, 2008 by crystal sage

[Undeadskeptic]

We're talking about NZ, which is next to Australia... right? Um.. didn't people start inhabiting Australia at least 50,000 years ago, and why would they just ignore NZ, which was accessible by a land bridge back then... I'm confused.

NZ and Aus weren't connected at that time.

[crystal sage]

NZ and Aus weren't connected at that time.

but they had boats...

Did Humans Colonize the World by Boat?

Research suggests our ancestors traveled the oceans 70,000 years ago.

http://discovermagazine.com/2008/jun/20-di...e-world-by-boat

What’s more, detailed studies of the Southeast Asian coastline of 50,000 years ago showed that an 800-mile-long stretch of islands and at least eight ocean straits separated the island continent from the Asian mainland. “By any route, you have to island-hop to Australia, with one water crossing greater than 44 miles,” Erlandson says. “So it is a real exercise to get across, and the magnitude of that is illustrated by the fact that, before anatomically modern humans made the leap, no large-bodied animal ever got all the way across.”

But modern humans possessed the wherewithal to paddle to Australia. With stone knives they could have felled Asia’s giant bamboo and then tied the canes together to make a raft large enough to carry several passengers. Moreover, they could have navigated by sight for most of the journey. As they set out from one island to the next, they could generally have spied at least a smudge of land on the far horizon.

It appears that Australia and New Zealand managed to avoid the Ice Age..in the past and will so once again..

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/05/2052408.htm

Dr Barrows says the ANU research, published in the journal Science, suggests Australia may be somewhat immune from this coming ice age.

"It was believed that this particular climatic event was global, that it affected all parts of the world, and certainly some research in New Zealand supported that," he said.

"There was a paper several years ago on dating the Franz Josef Glacier. It expanded in the South Island of New Zealand, and that's certainly placed that ice expanse at about that time.

"However, we've now come along and used a different dating technique on that site and found that it actually occurs after the cooling event."

He says that finding lends support to a theory that heat will accumulate in the Southern Hemisphere if there is cooling in the north.

"In conjunction with looking at a deep-sea core off the coast nearby, [it means] that it actually warmed during the period when it was cooling in the Northern Hemisphere, and that supports a theory called the bipolar seesaw, which has to do with where heat goes on the planet when the conveyor belt is operating or not operating," he said.

"So heat tends to accumulate in the Southern Hemisphere if the conveyor belt is not operating."

Dr Barrows says Australia and New Zealand could then become the destination for Europeans fleeing the cold.

"If this was to occur, there would be a large number of refugees from Europe seeking a warmer place to go," he said.

Edited May 24, 2008 by crystal sage

[Undeadskeptic]

So explain the total lack of evidence.

[crystal sage]

Can I give you physical evidence of 70,000 year old boats???

I gather other than ancient art engravings, models.. petroglyphs.....DNA evidence of migrations.. legends..The Bible's mention of Noah building a massive boat during the time of the Great floods.. did he reputedly ask.. " Ark? Boat? Ship? What are you talking about Man?

He already seemed to know what one was.. and only needed ask.,. Yes Sir.. How Big?..

so obviously the idea wasn't a new one..

http://jcwinnie.biz/wordpress/?p=883

There is some record that people in the Sahara were shipbuilders as early as 18,000 BC. The Badarian web site makes note of research about the oldest human skeleton found in Egypt.

Researchers have radiocarbon dated the remains of the Nazlet Khater, found near Luxor in 1980, to be of an age between 35,000 and 30,000 years ago.

http://www.evcforum.net/RefLib/noah_ooc.html

Wow! it was one (Noah's Ark) with 6 decks!!! To construct something like that ,they definitely were more advanced at ship building than mere dugouts!

http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/2007/10...ys-of-noah.html

8000 year old dugout found in the region of Lake Chad, the Land of Noah.

Edited May 25, 2008 by crystal sage

[Enalya]

I've always heard that the Maoris ATE the Morioris

[Mortiis]

Can I give you physical evidence of 70,000 year old boats???

I gather other than ancient art engravings, models.. petroglyphs.....DNA evidence of migrations.. legends..The Bible's mention of Noah building a massive boat during the time of the Great floods.. did he reputedly ask.. " Ark? Boat? Ship? What are you talking about Man?

He already seemed to know what one was.. and only needed ask.,. Yes Sir.. How Big?..

so obviously the idea wasn't a new one..

http://www.evcforum.net/RefLib/noah_ooc.html

Wow! it was one (Noah's Ark) with 6 decks!!! To construct something like that ,they definitely were more advanced at ship building than mere dugouts!

http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/2007/10...ys-of-noah.html

8000 year old dugout found in the region of Lake Chad, the Land of Noah.

They did indeed - consumed nearly all of them, in some of the most horrific displays of cannibalism.

x

[Plainbob13]

Heres a interesting article i ran acroww the other day.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story....jectid=10512676

I beleive it goes with this topic somehow.

[Undeadskeptic]

I've always heard that the Maoris ATE the Morioris

Actually the Moriori were a tribe of Maori whom now inhabit a few small islands. They arrived with the Maori.

And it's Maori and Moriori not Maoris and Morioris, there is no S for plural in the Maori language.

[wes highland]

Hi all, my name's Scott. This is my first post to this here forum, and hopefully everyone

will welcome me!

I am an author, been writing now consistently for over twenty years, and I have recently

decided to begin research for a huge multi-volume fantasy series which I am going to be

writing, set in Australia and New Zealand.

The thing is, information on Pre-Maori history here in my country (NZ) is very hard to come

by, even in this day and age of the internet!

If anyone has some information or site links that they could post up which they think might

be of use, please do!

Cheers!

Scott

x

I didn't have the chance to view all the helpful responses to your question. So if someone posted this site address - please just overlook my mistake. It would probably be of some benefit to you if you contacted the New Zealand Archaeological Society itself.

Happy hunting!

http://www.nzarchaeology.org/

[Enalya]

And it's Maori and Moriori not Maoris and Morioris...

Not in this day and age...TV, Radio...everyones using the S plurals