Obama wants to expand faith-based programs

[__Kratos__]

CHICAGO - Reaching out to religious voters, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama called for expanding President Bush's program steering federal social service dollars to religious groups and — in a move sure to cause controversy — supported some ability to hire and fire based on faith.

(Note: The Associated Press initially reported Obama supports "their (faith-based organizations') ability to hire and fire based on faith." NBC reports the campaign says Obama's plan would prevent organizations from discriminating based on faith. The Associated Press changed its wording to say, "some ability to hire and fire based on faith." The campaign says this second version is still inaccurate.)

Obama unveiled his approach to getting religious charities more involved in government anti-poverty programs during a tour and remarks Tuesday at Eastside Community Ministry, which provides food, clothes, youth ministry and other services.

"The challenges we face today ... are simply too big for government to solve alone," Obama said.

Obama's announcement is part of a series of events leading up to Friday's Fourth of July holiday that are focused on American values.

The candidate spent Monday talking about his vision of patriotism in the battleground state of Missouri. By twinning that with Tuesday's talk about faith in another battleground state, he was attempting to settle debate in two key areas where his beliefs have come under question while also trying to make inroads with constituencies that are traditionally loyal to Republicans and oppose Obama on other grounds.

More of the article here: Link

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Seperation of church and state comes to mind in the first amendment. Bush was an idiot for giving tax money to faith groups and Obama isn't going to help that at all.

[Startraveler]

"The challenges we face today ... are simply too big for government to solve alone," Obama said.

Well, that's disheartening. Apparently that single set of footprints in the sand was Jesus carrying Uncle Sam.

P.S. I disagree with his premise.

Edited July 1, 2008 by Startraveler

[Cinders]

Yea, I read about this over on Huffington Post and there are like 31 PAGES of comments on this so far (wow) HERE

I agree with you on this "religion" matter Kratos: THERE SHOULD BE A SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE but I often STILL see many politicians on CSPAN PRAY at times! Just strikes me as odd these days....

I was born around the time Obama was. I remember in my Portland, Oregon Elementary Public School, as late as in the mid 60's, we had PRAYER in the class, and also said the "Pledge of Allegiance" with the word GOD in it without concern... During that time, I was sort of forced and brain washed into a Christian based religion (Lutheran for my Norwegion Grandfather's sake). As I've grown older, I see it all so differently now... however, I still respect others that have their faith.

I don't know where this is really going with Barack Obama. MAYBE he's trying to pull in that d@mn BIBLE BELT area that can be a HUGE turning point in any presidential election. OR maybe it's because Obama has two little girls ages 9 years and 6 years old. I know that when my daughter was their age (she's now 20 years old), I was STILL into the religious faith, however, I did not FORCE her as what it was like for me, but I gave her opportunity by allowing her to go to a Christian pre-school, and church services etc. to give her some exposure to it all so that SHE could make up her own mind. I look back on it all now and see where she was and is now. AND I do KNOW that RELIGION helped her through those "teenage suicidal I hate my life" years as it did for me. Strange what "brain washing" can do eh?

BUSH and his way of thinking regarding GOD and all, is PARTLY what has added to my distancing of religious beliefs - moreso in the last 2 to 3 years.

And recently I can totally relate more to George Carlin where Religion is just BS

But yes, it does bother me in a way where Obama is going with this.. but like I say it could be partly due to trying to reach folks in that "BIBLE BELT", or his upbringing, and / or his young daughters.

No matter though, it still does NOT convince me to VOTE for the other guy called McCain aka McLame, aka McSame, aka McInsane.....

Edited July 2, 2008 by Cinders

[__Kratos__]

No matter though, it still does NOT convince me to VOTE for the other guy called McCain aka McLame, aka McSame, aka McInsane.....

Well McCain also supports faith-based groups, so that is a bit ackward.

[Cinders]

Well McCain also supports faith-based groups, so that is a bit ackward.

McCain is so off from my hopes for this fricked up country and world but that's beside the point.

So you think I should vote for Nader or Barr? Come on now! sheesh!

Or NOT TO VOTE AT ALL? Well, if I DON'T vote, I will NOT have a right to complain! HAHAHAHAHAHA

Yea, Politics is a lot like religion: BS

*sigh*

[Mr Honeybadger]

I just hope that God doesn't tell Obama who to start wars with like Bush says he told him.

[Guardsman Bass]

This doesn't surprise me, considering Obama's involvement with his church, which does this type of stuff. As long as they give out aid without proselytizing, I think it's okay, if annoying; they function as any other charity with that stipulation.

[Lt_Ripley]

yes bush started the faith based programs --- yet he stiffed them..... lmao. I don't think any government money should be handed to religion.

[IronGhost]

This doesn't surprise me, considering Obama's involvement with his church, which does this type of stuff. As long as they give out aid without proselytizing, I think it's okay, if annoying; they function as any other charity with that stipulation.

That's just the thing, though, Guardsman. "As long as they don't ..." Once it becomes an established practice to start giving these faith based ying-yangs tax-payer cash, there'll be drift .. that is, they'll start doing things, such an proslythizing, or whatever ...

I'm severely, severely disappointed in Obama for this -- in fact, it's outrageous. Obama is lurching to the center so fast, I think a lot of Dems are getting whiplash. Jeepers, I wish there was some way to get rid of this guy -- I still want a Democrat for Pres. -- but I don't want Obama at all -- maybe some kind of brokered convention?

I hope the blogs, like Huffington, Firedog Lake, Kos -- start building a grassroots rebellian against Obama -- he's slicker than Slick Willie himself -- without being as smart as Bill Clinton.

Obama is not a visionary leader -- he's a slick, calculating pol who has been playing the Dems like a flute.

[Startraveler]

Obama is not a visionary leader -- he's a slick, calculating pol who has been playing the Dems like a flute.

I don't know if I'd go that far. Faith, compromise, political moderation--it's not as if these haven't been his themes since the beginning. His book two years ago was full of this stuff. As were his campaign speeches and even his descriptions of his political strategies, particularly when he was going toe-to-toe with John Edwards. Anybody who feels played by him (and I agree, a good number of people probably do) simply wasn't paying close enough attention.

[Cradle of Fish]

How about some reason-based programs within the government, that'd be revolutionary.

[__Kratos__]

Faith-Based Initiative Should Be Abolished, Not Renamed

The Freedom From Religion Foundation, the nation's largest association of freethinkers (atheists and agnostics), today condemned Barack Obama's "gratuitous" pandering and his pledge to expand and rename George Bush's faith-based initiative. The Foundation is a nonpartisan educational organization working to keep church and state separate, which has taken the lead in legal challenges against the faith-based initiative.

Statement by Foundation co-presidents Dan Barker and Annie Laurie Gaylor:

Just as seven years ago the Foundation condemned Pres. George W. Bush's creation of his misguided "faith-based initiative," today the Foundation protests the shortsightedness of candidate Barack Obama in endorsing its continuation.

This is the wrong direction for our country. The next president should have the integrity and courage to back off from Bush's fiasco and abolish the so-called faith-based initiative. It has been a waste of taxpayers' money, has injected religion into politics, deprived needy clients of the best help, and has punched a huge hole in America's vaunted "wall of separation between church and state."

It's lovely to say, as Obama does, that "I believe deeply in the separation of church and state." But actions speak louder than words. There is negligible difference between Obama's and Bush's stated provisos on the faith-based initiative. Like Obama, Bush claimed the faith-based initiative would not allow religious groups to use public grants to proselytize or discriminate against clients, and that public money going to places of worship was only to be used for secular programs. But there is no accountability and no monitoring provisions, as the GAO audit of 2006 documented.

It's also fine for Obama to say the government and its recipients are going to follow the law. But every day at the Freedom From Religion Foundation, we field complaints about violations of the separation between church and state even over established law, such as school prayer. Obama offers no plan for monitoring the constitutional pitfall of a "partnership" between religion and government.

The Foundation has taken and won many court challenges against the faith-based initiative. For instance, a federal judge in our Faith Works case in Milwaukee ruled in 2002 that $800,000 in direct federal subsidy to a ministry that existed to "bring homeless addicts directly to Christ" was unconstitutional. The funds were spent (and wasted) by the time we won the case. In 2005, we halted the final federal grant to MentorKids USA, in which volunteer mentors had to sign a statement that they believed literally in the creation story before they could go on to openly proselytize children of prisoners. We stopped a "parish nursing program" in Montana in 2003, and in 2007 a "chaplaincy" in Indiana set up to minister to state employees. Important and pioneering as our legal cases have been, they are a mere drop in the bucket in terms of the public financing of proselytization under the faith-based scheme.

More of the article here: Link

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[IronGhost]

I don't know if I'd go that far. Faith, compromise, political moderation--it's not as if these haven't been his themes since the beginning. His book two years ago was full of this stuff. As were his campaign speeches and even his descriptions of his political strategies, particularly when he was going toe-to-toe with John Edwards. Anybody who feels played by him (and I agree, a good number of people probably do) simply wasn't paying close enough attention.

You make some good points, but I see a pattern of "slick moves" by Obama that are adding up:

* He pummeled Hillary for her support of a gas-tax roll back, saying she was "pandering." Yet, Obama himself voted for the repeal of the gas tax in Illinios when he was state sen. there.

* Has reneged on his call for candidates to use public campaing funds -- when he was sure he would out-pull McCain in $$

* Refused to wear the flag lapel pin on principal -- then when started losing white, male voters to Clinton he started wearing the flag pin (Pandering?)

* Said he cold no more disown Rev. Wright than "disown his own grandmother" -- 1 week later, Wright gave one more interview -- Obama disowned him. (Will he now disown his grandma-ma?)

* Exoriated Hillary for being connected to big money lobbiests -- yet his own head of VEEP search committe was among the worst of big money creeps -- Obama blamed in on the guy who was supposed to "vet his staff." (With Obama, a lot of stuff is always soneone else's fault)

* Is supporting the totaly repulsive new FISA bill which grant immunity to big Telecom companies who spied on American illegally, etc.

I could go on -- my main point is -- all this euphoria about Obama being some kind of new type of politician or "visionary leader" are pure balonly. He's an ordinary, compromised politician who will do anything to get elected -- also -- he just isn't a very good leader. He's not decisive. He's a reactor, not an actor.