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Theunexplained

Is there a thing as destiny?

27 posts in this topic

do we all have destineys? or can we choose which path to take?

i believe that we all have a destiny but can choose different paths that lead to it

everything happens for a reason

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do we all have destineys? or can we choose which path to take?

i believe that we all have a destiny but can choose different paths that lead to it

everything happens for a reason

As Einstein said people who believe in destiny seem to look both ways before crossing the street. It doesnt mean anything really but if you think about it its a bit interesting.

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Freewill and destiny coexist. We can make our own choices but we cannot avoid the ultimates.

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I don't believe the destiny or fate bit. I personally think things happen. We can control a lot of the thinngs that go down. We do choose which way we go with our lives. And that will change the way things happen in life, but nothing is set.

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Freewill and destiny coexist. We can make our own choices but we cannot avoid the ultimates.

Care to elaborate?

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Everything does happen for a reason.

As I see it, each of us has a life plan and free will. This is similar to what Clovis has said.

John

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Posted (edited)

well, i believe that God has lots of businesses to deal with, such as the Global Warming...

he has no time to concern me.

Edited by Johann Faust

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Freewill and destiny coexist. We can make our own choices but we cannot avoid the ultimates.

Free Will is a choice to make some action; this choice always has an Intention behind it. Now, Action takes place in material world - but the Intention takes place in our Spiritual world. The Action seems to be less important for us than the Intention behind it - so from the point of view of material world there can be a Destiny, which is a certain sequence of actions with a certain result. But we are in material world only temporarily, for a limited period - while our Spirit is considered immortal. So, for our Spirit our intentions are more important than our actions; and it is Free Will chooses which Intention we use for any predestined action.

As an example one can use a premeditated murder, a murder in affection, a murder in self-defense, a murder at war, a murder by accident and a murder by contract. The action (murder) is the same but the motivation is different and the real guilt varies from full to none, same as the Intentions vary from inferior to advanced.

That was just to illustrate your answer my way, as I agree they coexist but did not understand what "ultimates" mean.

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I believe in destiny. Freewill does coexist with destiny, but I almost never use my freewill these days. I go with the flow, going everywhere my feet leads me to...

This happened just a day before. I was going to my destination, utterly concentrating on the prospect that "destiny will lead you wherever you wanted to go". So I took the first bus that came into my sight but I don't know where it would lead me to. I just don't care, and eventually I slept. When I woke up I found myself in my destination!

So... just believe in your destiny and trust this theory: "TWUS". The Whole Universe Supports. If you got a wish to do something, just believe in destiny and believe in TWUS! The Whole Universe will Support you... (In my case, the bus driver did support me even if I didn't ask him to)

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Posted (edited)

hmmmm....for short intentions and will are the factors that is stronger than actions...in this sense im just being happy that someday i will come to my destiny

by the way THE ARKAN L.S. nice idea "The Whole universe Supports you!!!"

Edited by nohands

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I'm a little sleepy, so my answer will be short. :lol:

I believe in destiny, but I believe it is self-imposed for the most part.

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i used to think that free will and destiny co existed and like has been previously said you could choose things like what you were going to wear or what to eat. but then i thought something as small as that could determine your destiny and thats why i have changed my mind and think there is no free will. such as... say you chose to wear blue jeans, white trainers and a black jumper. and a gang of criminals or a phsycopath were looking for a man matching that description of clothes. which was not you obvioulsy but they were intent to kill the other man wearing them clothes. for whatever reason they had. you died as a result of mistaken identity. why did you choose to wear those clothes on that day? and why were you in that area that the criminals were? at that time?

more than a coincidence?

say for another example your at a resturaunt. theres countless dishes you could have you chose one out of many.

this dish is off and gives you serious food poisioning and you die as a result.

everything happens for a reason.

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hehe yes yes everything happens for a reason......birth itself is a destiny that is why you can't choose on your own(for a normal person.)

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Posted (edited)

Its only human sentience which drives us to ask this question. Does a goat have a destiny? No! A goat does not have conscious free will either, however.

Humans have both conscious free will and freedom to make any choice they like, based on their sentience, and that inherent free will. No one's future is either predestined or certain, although, due to the nature of cause and effect and environmental/genetic and other influences, some outcomes are more probable than others.

Chaos and random independent events may influence our future but even these are dependent on many of the conscious choices we make. If we choose to live on a fault line we have a higher chance of being killed in an earthquake. If we drive a lot of miles in private vehicles we have a slightly higher chance of dying or being injured in a road accident. But how we choose to drive will also moderate those potentialities.

If we drink alcohol we increas our risks in many categories from violence to road injury. If we form a relationship with an abusive person we alter our likely future in many negative ways.

Only the questioning nature of our sentience drives us to ask what is inherently a philosophical/spiritual question. Like the goat, we have no great predetermined destiny. Unlike the goat, we can shape our destiny to a greater or lesser extent, depending on many factors including, but not limited to, our intelligence and our will power.

Edited by Mr Walker

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Only the questioning nature of our sentience drives us to ask what is inherently a philosophical/spiritual question. Like the goat, we have no great predetermined destiny. Unlike the goat, we can shape our destiny to a greater or lesser extent, depending on many factors including, but not limited to, our intelligence and our will power.

May I ask a question Mr. Walker. Would a spiritual being, who creates a physical human experience for itself, do this without a reason? I would think that if there was a reason for becoming human there would also be a purpose for it as well. If your contention is that there is no reason or purpose for becoming human, then why do we do it?

Thanks .... John

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May I ask a question Mr. Walker. Would a spiritual being, who creates a physical human experience for itself, do this without a reason? I would think that if there was a reason for becoming human there would also be a purpose for it as well. If your contention is that there is no reason or purpose for becoming human, then why do we do it?

Thanks .... John

gee im sorry that was the impression you got from my post. My belief is quite the contrary. THe reason for life, and particularly sentient life, is to create potentialities which would other wise not exist.

A universe without life, particularly without any sentient life, is closest to a preordained and one dimensional universe where only material accidents like the collision of stars may influence the timeline. A universe including sentient life has a multitude of possibilities. Whether that sentience is god or human we bring purpose(s) to the universe with us.

All living beings have an inherent purpose to continue the cycle of life, and thus maintain diversity of potential, but sentient beings, from god down to us can shape the universe to our will. God, being more powerful, does more of the shaping, but humans in their own tiny corner of the universe are beginning to make their mark, and in a few centuries will begin to shape/mould the very fabric of existence of our corner of the universe.

Given a little more time, that area of influence will expand exponentially. One responsibility of all humans thus inherently, is to ensure we survive and continue to develop material and spiritual wisdom so that, as our physical ability to alter the universe around us grows, it is matched by a spiritual wisdom which shows us how to do so wisely and safely.

Eventually, humans may become responsible for raising, teaching, watching over, and protecting, other developing sentient beings, both on earth and around the galaxy.

God or evolution gave us both intelligence and free will . It is our responsibility to learn in all areas and to apply that knowledge to making wise choices. That is where i personally think our spiritual nature comes in. It is this element of human sentience which allows us/empowers us, to modify our great material/ physical abilities so that they are used for good/productive purposes rather than bad/destructive ones.

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My friend thinks destiny exists. Personally, I believe life is like a "rail-shooter" video game. We can choose what path, we can shoot all of the colorful balloons, but in the end, we just end up at the end. I dunno, that's my take on this. We all follow a set path, with forks, loops and back-tracks, but we'll just end up at the end sooner or later. I believe it's our destiny to die. Not how we die. How we die is up to us.

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All living beings have an inherent purpose to continue the cycle of life, and thus maintain diversity of potential, but sentient beings, from god down to us can shape the universe to our will. God, being more powerful, does more of the shaping, but humans in their own tiny corner of the universe are beginning to make their mark, and in a few centuries will begin to shape/mould the very fabric of existence of our corner of the universe.

The point of view I wanted to express was that more than a general purpose, each human life has a set of specific purposes that is in fact tied into their life plan. It is not destiny because we have free will.

The theme of the thread, in reguard to destiny, is more easily understood when we realize that a plan is in place prior to our incarnation. We are birthed into circumstanses that form our perceptions of reality and beliefs. Our free will is always a factor in how our plan for life unfolds as well.

So as I see it, there is no such thing as destiny but we are pre-disposed for quite a few things things in very particular ways. Since I am fond of self empowerment, it helps to align that concept with the broader awareness about any given person's real potentials.

John

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The point of view I wanted to express was that more than a general purpose, each human life has a set of specific purposes that is in fact tied into their life plan. It is not destiny because we have free will.

The theme of the thread, in reguard to destiny, is more easily understood when we realize that a plan is in place prior to our incarnation. We are birthed into circumstanses that form our perceptions of reality and beliefs. Our free will is always a factor in how our plan for life unfolds as well.

So as I see it, there is no such thing as destiny but we are pre-disposed for quite a few things things in very particular ways. Since I am fond of self empowerment, it helps to align that concept with the broader awareness about any given person's real potentials.

John

Ah i see. While i appreciate that viewpoint, mine is a little different.

I think our life begins with a luck of the draw, both where we are born, what sex, and what genetic or other defects we do or dont have,, along with many other things, may mark our starting point.

After that some things are more likely(potential) but nothing is fixed. Chance plays a part, but intelligence, and life choices, make up a far greater part. Sometimes god intervenes directly to change our path, or to save us, or redirect us, but this seems to be quite uncommon.

Normally he expects us to make the most of our intelligence and our free will to make choices which lead us to a better life. I do not believe our end point is preordained, either. God may know all our potential timelines, and alll our end points, but until we make a choice at each junction point in our life, and this becomes fixed in our past, we all have a multitude of potential futures.

God can educate help and direct us to find the better/ more productive ones, and may even physically bump us down them at times, but all those potential futures exist until we reach them, and they become our present, and then our past.

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There is no physical Time, it is just a human way to keep track on the events. From the point of view of Infinity all events happen at once, i.e. they all have happened already. Events are physical changes which we record with our senses, no more, so the continuity of this world makes them all to be existing affixed. This makes up for "destiny", so the event itself is unavoidable and has no alternative. Means this world, looked upon from "outside time" is just a sort of a solid matter and "events" are the knots in it. We all are the same "time" unborn, living and dead - and the death is really a good example of destiny, as no one argues it is ahead of us all.

The same time, while we are living, we do not know the future, and have to reason each or action - this reasoning is our Free Will. We got Free Will when we ate that allegorical fruit, which allowed us to distinguish Good from Evil, so our reasoning for action can be either Good or Evil and we are aware of this. So, when we choose Evil for the sake of Evil, we can attack, say, a lamb and viciously kill it. Or we can kill it because it broke the legs, this would be a Good reasoning. But we also kill it for food, without any consideration about Good and Evil, this would be just our living routine.

So, Bible explains that we are Images of God and almost Gods, except our mortality. When we act of Evil emotions, this would be a monstrosity, a step away from God (as we are killing God in fact, lamb is also God's image though not as advanced as ourselves). When we do not believe in God, this is not an attack against God - the attack against God would be to hate another his Image, as this is the same as if we hate ourselves. I do not mean I am religious at all, but this question same as Free Will question in the other thread belong more to a theosophical discussion than to a philosophical one.

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There is no physical Time, it is just a human way to keep track on the events. From the point of view of Infinity all events happen at once, i.e. they all have happened already.

Thats an interesting proposition but i tend not to accept it because there is absolutely no physical/scientific evidence for it. As a philosophical position it is as valid as any other. But taking human consciousness and the philosophical theosophical positioning such intelligence brings to the question out of the equation, all the scientific/obsevational evidence, in everything from birth through death, to entropy, and radioactive decay points to an ongoing linear time line. I

For example the seed for a new tree cannot exist until the parent tree has matured. Whether that maturation ever occurs depends on a huge range of variables with differing degrees of chaoticness.

It is always possible philosophically or theosophically that a being like god might exist outside that linear time frame and encompass a consciousness which exists contemporaneously throughout a large part if not all of the linear time line. This entity would indeed be able to see through time, but it is possible that it would still see a multiverse of potentialities rather than a series of fixed points or nodes.

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Posted (edited)

There is no such thing as destiny or fate, i believe it is a crutch people use to not deal with their problems. As in "it was my destiny to be in this situation so now i have to live with it"

Example: a drug user over-doses, was it fate? was it destiny? no they chose to use drugs and they could have choose not too use drugs.

If I worked my whole life to become President of the United States (which would be tough since I am Canadian :P) and everyone just chalked up all my hard work as destiny I would be pretty mad.

Anyways just my two cents

Edited by -Reborn-

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There is no physical Time, it is just a human way to keep track on the events. From the point of view of Infinity all events happen at once, i.e. they all have happened already. Events are physical changes which we record with our senses, no more, so the continuity of this world makes them all to be existing affixed. This makes up for "destiny", so the event itself is unavoidable and has no alternative. Means this world, looked upon from "outside time" is just a sort of a solid matter and "events" are the knots in it. We all are the same "time" unborn, living and dead - and the death is really a good example of destiny, as no one argues it is ahead of us all.

The same time, while we are living, we do not know the future, and have to reason each or action - this reasoning is our Free Will. We got Free Will when we ate that allegorical fruit, which allowed us to distinguish Good from Evil, so our reasoning for action can be either Good or Evil and we are aware of this. So, when we choose Evil for the sake of Evil, we can attack, say, a lamb and viciously kill it. Or we can kill it because it broke the legs, this would be a Good reasoning. But we also kill it for food, without any consideration about Good and Evil, this would be just our living routine.

So, Bible explains that we are Images of God and almost Gods, except our mortality. When we act of Evil emotions, this would be a monstrosity, a step away from God (as we are killing God in fact, lamb is also God's image though not as advanced as ourselves). When we do not believe in God, this is not an attack against God - the attack against God would be to hate another his Image, as this is the same as if we hate ourselves. I do not mean I am religious at all, but this question same as Free Will question in the other thread belong more to a theosophical discussion than to a philosophical one.

Your wrong about there being no physical time. The higher up you go the more you realize time is in fact physical, you can see it, interact with it, or maybe not. I learned this info o a drug trip anyways, my bad. See my destiny lead me to comment on your comment, somehow altering our subconciousness Now we are spirit brothers

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I think we all have a destiny and I also believe everything happens for a reason too, so coincidences don't really go well with me. I also think we have free will so my beliefs are kinda contradictory. This is so confusing... :hmm:

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do we all have destineys?

Not quite.

or can we choose which path to take?

Yes, imo, people choose their paths. But whether it leads to the same result or outcome is the problem, we can't really know for sure where the other paths lead to what outcome, if it is the same or will it be different unless we experience each path and compare.

i believe that we all have a destiny but can choose different paths that lead to it

everything happens for a reason

I suppose so, but I still stick with what I mentioned. Reasons can change, just like the decisions people make, and the options people consider. What one person decides can ripple and influence what happens to another, and so on.

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