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man_in_mudboots

an interesting philosophy

38 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

once i read this book on natural history, evolution, and dellimas of those two. it presented one interesting question, with two even more interesting answers. the question was 'how probable is life?' the two possible answers were:

1) does our galaxy swarm with life because matter has a tendancy to form more and more complex structures whose properties include the potential to modify and reproduce themselves?

2) or does the simplest creature on earth embody a chain of causes each so unlikeley that it ennables us to predict that one small solar system born less than 5 billion years ago would harbor life in pattern of our earth?

i wasnt quite sure where to put this, so moderators move it if it belongs in extraterestrials. crap. io just realized i put an 'e' in iteresting instead of an 'i'

Edited by man_in_mudboots

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I belive its a mixter of the two resons

and a bit of inteligent boosting

by unkown universal caretakers

thumbsup.gif

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what? why is everything you write in prose? prose is fine, sure, but not when trying to get a point over. happy.gif

and the 'two reasons' or more appropriatly, 'two answers' are based exclusivley on evolution, which i remember you considered 'trash'. mellow.gifsleep.gif

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Evolution is a way of the universe

But i belive only when dealing with anything other than breathing life

example,moons,stars,planets,galexies

im just a dumb person who never gets my message across the way i want

So ,i guess my veiws are abit diffrent,

but who wants to live in a uncertain world with so many certain people

Take care thumbsup.gif

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huh.gif What??????????????????

Dude, the theory of evolution is only applicable to iological lifeforms. Tell me how a planet get mutated and go through natural selection... rolleyes.gif

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excuse mr spartan. he knows absolutly nothing about evolution. i cant imagine why he proclaims to believe it.

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I lean more towards the second arguement...

At the end of the day, the possibility of life is so slim that not every other planet in the cosmos is going to have an advanced species peering back at us. However, I still hold that there are so many planets out there, and such a vast universe, that the laws of average dictate it had to happen somewhere else tongue.gif

However, I still think people who think they're popping by our solar system drink too much.

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Spartan Euclideus,

Being a quadrilateral communicator will get you

boxed in, sometimes.

And, that is something of your personal style.

As for me, I am diffuse.

Hats off to solid form...

That aside, you may be on to something.

Stellar systems do indeed evolve, as far as I'm concerned.

Hydrogen evolved, stars and planets, and galaxies

all compete, co-operate, make and break the rules, sometimes.

They are born, they live, and die, and rebear themselves

to higher form, sometimes.

May I quote? I wish I had Samuel Johnson's Dictionary,

It might have an interesting definition.

But, let us see what Merriam-Webster says-

4 entries found for evolution.

evolution-creative evolution-emergent evolution-parallelism

Main Entry: evo·lu·tion

Pronunciation: "e-v&-'lü-sh&n, "E-v&-

Function: noun

Etymology: Latin evolution-, evolutio unrolling, from evolvere

1 : one of a set of prescribed movements

2 a : a process of change in a certain direction : UNFOLDING b : the action or an instance of forming and giving something off : EMISSION c (1) : a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state : GROWTH (2) : a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance d : something evolved

3 : the process of working out or developing

4 a : the historical development of a biological group (as a race or species) : PHYLOGENY b : a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations

5 : the extraction of a mathematical root

6 : a process in which the whole universe is a progression of interrelated phenomena

You sir, deserve a modicum of recognition.

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What??????????????????

Dude, the theory of evolution is only applicable to iological lifeforms. Tell me how a planet get mutated and go through natural selection...

I don't think humans can even begin to fathom lifeforms of that nature. I have always thought it to be true that the Earth itself is alive. When I was in High School I was in Biology and I asked my teacher, in a confused manner, "Does Biology recognise the Earth as a living thing?". She said no. I began to wonder why.

When you are talking of planets being alive, I think someone would have to realise their inferiority in the matter. Humans would obviously be an inferior being to such a lifeform. Being so inferior, it is probably likely that we would never really be able to understand how such a lifeform could exist or how would live.

Think of it like this. You are more advanced than a cockroach, do you think a cockroach realises that you are a living thing or how you live?

Another possibility may be that a planets evolution could exist in many different forms. Such as lower lifeforms on the planet itself. The possibility that humans are a reproductive feature of earth could be considered an evolutionary step for a planet.

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Think of it like this. You are more advanced than a cockroach, do you think a cockroach realises that you are a living thing or how you live?

Good argument for Creation......even though that isn't the point of this thread. "The Earth is God's footstool" wink2.gif

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Spartan Euclideus,

Being a quadrilateral communicator will get you

boxed in, sometimes.

And, that is something of your personal style.

As for me, I am diffuse.

Hats off to solid form...

That aside, you may be on to something.

Stellar systems do indeed evolve, as far as I'm concerned.

Hydrogen evolved, stars and planets, and galaxies

all compete, co-operate, make and break the rules, sometimes.

They are born, they live, and die, and rebear themselves

to higher form, sometimes.

May I quote? I wish I had Samuel Johnson's Dictionary,

It might have an interesting definition.

But, let us see what Merriam-Webster says-

4 entries found for evolution.

evolution-creative evolution-emergent evolution-parallelism

Main Entry: evo·lu·tion

Pronunciation: "e-v&-'lü-sh&n, "E-v&-

Function: noun

Etymology: Latin evolution-, evolutio unrolling, from evolvere

1 : one of a set of prescribed movements

2 a : a process of change in a certain direction : UNFOLDING b : the action or an instance of forming and giving something off : EMISSION c (1) : a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state : GROWTH (2) : a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance d : something evolved

3 : the process of working out or developing

4 a : the historical development of a biological group (as a race or species) : PHYLOGENY b : a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations

5 : the extraction of a mathematical root

6 : a process in which the whole universe is a progression of interrelated phenomena

You sir, deserve a modicum of recognition.

Thank you,at last someone who knows

You are a smart person

you know when im talking science or religion

if you look at the post im in

i get the feeling im sorounded by .........

But its cool

they do not know what there doing

Take care brother Swj20

(ps;good luck with your legal stuff cool.gif

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Good argument for Creation......even though that isn't the point of this thread. "The Earth is God's footstool

... let's hope that Talon does not come across this post tongue.gif

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I'll get him to read it later wink2.gif

Must be asked...what's with the recent flood of religious members who write in prose? blink.gif

Anyway, it's true that the term "evolution" can now be given to almost any process by which something changes into something else, it is not the term in which we are applying it. Planets certainly did not undergo natural selection...I doubt very much there was a "survival of the fittest" scenario in which Earth managed to bully its way into the perfect niche for supporting life by pushing smaller planets closer to the sun, and leaping in there faster that big 'ol lumbering Mars could tongue.gif

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I'm sure, as living beings, they have their way of doing this. We just can't understand it. At least not yet. I'm sure the galaxy works by survival of the fittest. I mean, asteroids and comets hit planets all the time. It's said that a comet the size of mars has hit the earth at one point, creating the moon.

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Did I miss the point where planets became living beings? huh.gif I must have skipped that lecture...

It's said that a comet the size of mars has hit the earth at one point, creating the moon.

You don't think that would have an effect sort of like a wrecking ball hitting an orange?

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mr spartan, that certainly is an interesting idea

ive heard it before;

and i cant say i agree with it

but this came to me in its defense:

viruses are not considered scientifically alive because they do not eat,

nor do they drink,

nor grow or develop,

only reproduce and move;

that is only 2 out of 6 of the charicteristics of living things;

what if the earth is like them?

sorry about the prose-

i just had to try it, you see;

it will not become a habit.

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mr spartan, that certainly is an interesting idea

ive heard it before;

and i cant say i agree with it

but this came to me in its defense:

viruses are not considered scientifically alive because they do not eat,

nor do they drink,

nor grow or develop,

only reproduce and move;

that is only 2 out of 6 of the charicteristics of living things;

what if the earth is like them?

sorry about the prose-

i just had to try it, you see;

it will not become a habit.

Pose is cool

its for the smart,hahaha

i belive that solids are the mother if you will and any type of energy is the father

when these to meet ,shazam,life.

ofcourse this is to basic to prove

but i think you get the message

one more thing,do viruses evolve

i think they do

thumbsup.gif

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Posted (edited)

Well, the comet didn't hit head on, it just kind of grased one side of Earth. I'm not saying that all planets are indeed alive. I'm just speaking hypothetically, since evolution can only be attributed to lifeforms.

You don't think that would have an effect sort of like a wrecking ball hitting an orange?

grin2.gif I agree on that point though. thumbsup.gif

Edited by strichar

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Posted (edited)

Hi, Spart-

And Mr. Man who works hard, in boots!

If I may help this proceed, let me just say that I am no poet,

but I would guess that the term prose is derived from proceed.

To proceed is to go straight forward.

To not tarry in the abstract.

So, to me, prose is directness.

I assume Man views Sparty's efforts as briefly written thoughts,

which look like measured meter, or poetry.

As for me, they are neither, as he writes. But rather, they are

short decriptions of things he may not have grappled with,

except in an intuitive, personal feeling way.

I will admit, I know little on Mendleleav, or whatever his name was,

and even less about Darwin.

Please let me make an observation. Dad had a pigeon coup.

When he was a boy, that coup in our yard was his hobby. He raised racing pigeons. He raced his neighbor. His neighbor always won.

Dad said his pigeons always looked the same, but the neighbor's

got more and more fancy- through breeding.

The man next door understood selective breeding. That took place over

several years. Imagine thousands of years, or millions of days

of different weather, habitat changes, food deprivation and migration.

Those who 'adapted', but were caught short when serious changes,

or a cataclysmic event occured, those comfortable and able ones

may not have made the change to the new situation.

But, if there were some that had new and unique random characteristics,

and if they enabled those members of that group to survive into the

new situation, then they were lucky. And they got fat and sassy, and

reproduced. The situation maybe repeats. Time went on, the bulk

of the population 'adapts', a few odd-ones are created, who are odd,

but healthy, then events happen. The mass dies off, the odd characters

survive, and so on.

So, the odd ones are few. The mass is many. The odd ones depend

on the mass for reproduction opportunities, if necessary.

So, I see evolution as mutually interdependent classes of individuals,

both common and odd; and along with events in the environment,

species change.

Nature is limited, in how it cares for living creatures. It only has so much

to give. Continents move, weather changes when volcanoes

erupt, like Krakatoa, the plentiful food disappears.

Times get lean, and the tough get going.

Do not underestimate the soft side of nature. Love is real. I have seen

animals that adore their mates. They feel love, I have seen adoration

between animals. O.K., maybe its biology, but it happens...

Sparty- educated people argue the whys and wherefores of evolution.

It has many levels of study, from molecules, to mountaintops.

If you want to fight with the best of them, get a basic idea, or a feel

for the well studied versions. And you MUST round it out with a basic

understanding of the overlapping fields, like basic chemistry, and

basic paleontology- very, very basic will do...

If you went out, like they did, and dug around, and looked at samples,

and did laboratory studies, and held conferences, then at least give them

an ounce of credit.

By the same token- be open minded to new ideas, your own, especially.

IF YOU BELIEVE NOT ALL IS KNOWN, AND A REVOLUTION IN THINKING

ABOUT OUR HUMAN ANCESTRY IS POSSIBLE, YOU ARE ENTITLED

TO THAT BELIEF. CERTAINLY, AND ACCELERATION MY HAVE OCCURRED

SOMEWHERE, SOMETIME... UNEXPLAINED.

You must realize the implications. There is a lot to consider, a lot of

inferring about manipulations. By whom, when, where, and by what

generation would someone arrive at the desired change?

You see? Did they induce instant change, over a few years?

Did they wait with the patience of generations?

What was the timeline for advanced biological manipulation?

Was it to reap instant results, steal the results, and scoot off to

the next world? Was it to keep us from going extinct?

Why would they care? How long do they live, these manipulators?

What is their timeline and agenda?

See?

Questions... See ya...

Edited by swj20

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one more thing, do viruses evolve

i think they do

absolutly, viruses and bacteria mutate more than any other thing on earth. do you know why you cant cure the common cold? because as soon as a cure is developed, the bacteria has already mutated into a hundred thousand new forms which are now unharmed by the medicine. people have realized that unless they can control its mutations, a cure will never be developed. wink2.gif

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one more thing, do viruses evolve

i think they do

absolutly, viruses and bacteria mutate more than any other thing on earth. do you know why you cant cure the common cold? because as soon as a cure is developed, the bacteria has already mutated into a hundred thousand new forms which are now unharmed by the medicine. people have realized that unless they can control its mutations, a cure will never be developed. wink2.gif

Maybe the aids virus is a advanced cold virus,wich changes to attack the white cells.

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It is totally irresponsible and selfish to believe that we are the only planet harboring life in the universe. Not too long ago "we" believed that there wasn't water on Mars, now what? This will sink in to nay-sayers over time and after a few more yrs. there will be another "little" announcement. I think that the gov't is just gearing us up for the big announcement that we are not alone. I believe with Bush wanting a manned mission to Mars that we will all find out the truth. Maybe not right then but soon after.

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I tend to believe that there is life on other planets. How it got there, if a God put it there (or, for that matter, put us here), I don't know. It just seems ridiculously closed-minded and ethnocentric (no, that's not quite right...speciescentric? earthcentric?) to assume that we're IT, here on earth.

But mainly, what's up with the "don't write in prose" stuff? ALL of our posts are prose. That is, prose is just regular written language (as opposed to poetry). Short stories, newspaper articles, the back of a cereal box -- all prose.

What some members are writing in is a sort of "chopped up" prose, kind of like a prose poem.

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huh.gif What??????????????????

Dude, the theory of evolution is only applicable to iological lifeforms. Tell me how a planet get mutated and go through natural selection... rolleyes.gif

Well the earth changed from a hunk of molten rock into a vegetated world.

And I guess the natural selection would be survivng long enough to be able to harbour probiotic life.

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I really don't know how to put this but I have a theory on life and the universe. I have no formal knowledge, really, of biology besides high school or astronomy but have been trying to learn more on my own. With that said....

I believe that one of the basic structures of our bodies the cell is much like the earth and the stars. Cells have a nucleus, protons, electrons, cell wall. To me the earth is just another cell making up something bigger, maybe God. We are the protons and electrons running around making stuff happen. Growth.

I look at the night sky and see many different areas of spiralling star systems. Like DNA double-helix. The Dogon peoples of Africa believe that a race of reptilians came from the dog star Sirius system and it's sister star and cross-bred with a species from earth so they could survive. Until recent times Westerners thought that there wasn't another star with Sirius. When the two were studied they moved in the double-helix pattern much like DNA.

Does this sound logical about the whole earth cell thing?

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