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The Puzzler

Is Atlantis origins in Hyperborea?

56 posts in this topic

I have posted a similar post in my own Atlantis Discussion Thread but since it is over 1000 posts now, not many newer members involve themselves there so I wanted to bring up a new topic, I'd love anyone to give me any thoughts on it at all, so one exclusively for the discussion of ancient esoteric religion, ancient physics, as Herodotus told us the Pyramid is a symbol of physics, Plato and his narratives, especially the actual narration of Timeaus and the Creation of the Universe and apon looking closer at that part I can see him telling the same story as the story he relates about Atlantis.

The Origins of the Gods of Atlantis. The Religion of the World Axis, the Pole Cult that developed into the religion of the Pillar, the megalithic pillars all over the world, into the Sun Cult known by the Egyptians as being reverred at Heliopolis, Baalbek being a Heliopolis too, created by Ptah (Hephaestus) the Creator of everything including the dome of the Primordial Mound. Hephaestus, he who seeded both Greeks and Egyptians, according to Plato. Zeus being a son of a Titan, who came from the North, also had the same ancestors. The original inhabitants of Egypt may not have but by the time of Menes it was introduced via migration from Sumeria, the Egyptians of ancient Egypt are a mixed race is what the evidences are saying to me. Triangles I believe Plato tells us everything is made up of, equal to the atom.

Hyperborea. Home of the ancient Indo-Europeans.

Knowing that Atlas came from there as well as Apollo and then obviously Artemis and so Leto and the Buto cult, led me to more investigations. Following the Persians and Aryans back into pre-history we also come to areas around the Caspian Sea and references to lands like Hyperborea. What about the legends and stories of a sunny, green land in a perfect climate at the North Pole, what about how legends emerge about entering Inner Earth there, I doubt it means an actual different world inside our planet but a place to arrive at the Inner Self.

In the new issue of NEW DAWN magazine I came across an article that just jumped right out at me, since I have spent the last few days reading up on many things, particulary the part of Timaeus that nobody reads, the actual part that Timaeus narrates about the Creation of the Universe to see what clues I could find there in accordance with my own ideas on the Primordial Mound, there is many, many clues in it actually, it has led me to reading about physics, esoteric religions and theosophy not to mention ancient world history. Quite a co-incidence when I walked into the newsagency and the magazine just jumped right off the shelf into my hands...

Anyone heard of Arkaim in Russia?

Here, have a read: http://satellitediscoveries.typepad.com/ph...rcles/ark2.html

Now the article I read today just seemed to sew everything up, I found it on the internet, just for you guys to read too:

Here it is, titled Arkaim, Russia's Ancient City and the Arctic Origin of Civilisation.

http://www.victoria-lepage.org/artic_civilizations.htm

This is not claiming Arkaim as any sort of ancient Atlantis but does explain how it is part of the worldwide ancient beliefs of the Pillar culture.

Here is some paragraphs from it that I wanted to discuss:

The Babylonians believed in a mysterious paradise in the far north where a race of great sages lived; and the ancient Greeks too extolled a northern Elysium in which they believed the Hyperboreans, a wise, peaceful and long-lived race, lived in great splendour and prosperity. Even though Delphi was regarded as the centre of the Greek world, its god Apollo and his sister, the goddess Artemis, were acknowledged to be originally deities of this secret land far to the north, where stood the cosmic axle that the Greeks called Helice, That Which Turns. Many Greek historians as well as later scholars located this northern paradise in Scythia or the Altai, and as having its source in the shamanism that grew up around the semi-mythical magicians and pole-lords of Altai. But research and sacred tradition both suggest its origins go further back still to north-eastern Asia within the Arctic Circle, to a society that flourished on the shores of the Siberian Sea.

So, it speaks of the legendary Hyperborea with Apollo and Artemis having a pre-history even further North, a World Axis beginning...

The truth is that Arkaim was a troy town, so-called after the city in Asia Minor that the Greek king Agamemnon destroyed during the Trojan Wars. Built on the same circular principle as Troy, as described in Homers Iliad, but at least six hundred years older, Arkaim finds its prototype in Platos Atlantis with its three concentric circles of canals; in legendary Electris, the Hyperborean city some said was built under the Pole Star by the sea-god Poseidon; and in Asgard, the sacred city dedicated to the Norse god Odin that is described in the Icelandic saga, the Edda. All these legendary troy towns have the same circular ground plan. They have gone down in history as Neolithic Wisdom centres and the seats of ancient god-kings, and this undoubtedly throws light on the cultic function of Arkaim in its day, as we shall see.

Arkaim was a Troy Town, the same set up as Troy and many others even going back to Plato's Atlantis description, shem Tov's theory involves a troy town too, also connected to famous Labyrinth. Note the part about Electris, built under the Pole Star by Poseidon. Poseidon God of the Sea, Earthquakes, Horses and early on the Bull. Is Atlantis indeed up North? Seems Atlantis is possibly the epitome or original version of Troy town but what about that Pillar religion and the Moon and then the Sun, Heliopolis, the place of Ptah, Hephaestus, the Creator? Some may remeber the maze I was intrigued with in darkbreeds thread that even turned up with the Etruscans and how the site mentioned could it tie in with Atlantis, it does, getting to the centre of the labyrinth brings you to 'awareness', or consciousness.

In Russias more mystical quarters there is intense interest in the ancient town, seeing it as the city temple built by the legendary King Yuma, ruler of the Aryans in the Golden Age, which will once again becoming the centre of the world. vi However, the discovery of the settlement has opened an historical aperture onto far more than the battles and conquests of an aggressive Indo-European people waged across Eurasia and south into the Mediterranean lands, where their war chariots shattered the peace of Old Europe. What the Land of Cities has revealed in its very structure and history is above all the still earlier past of the Ural-Altaic peoples a past of such enormous antiquity that it presents more mysteries than it solves.

Built in the unique architectural mould of Nordic Asgard, the most sacred shrine of the Aesir of which the Prose Edda relates that men call it Troy, Arkaim may have been a shrine dedicated to the Aryan Sun religion, yet the roots of its dedication would have lain ultimately in the far older cult of the Pole star. Essentially, this was the religion of the shaman, the wizard, the medicine-man and other wonder-workers in touch with the spirits of nature.

This is certainly not mainstream but reading Timaeus again Plato has actually described to us the story of Atlantis, it is in Timaeus' narrative not in Socrates or Critias dialogue. I will show in a new post how it is in it...but back to that Aryan Pole Star religion of which the Sun cult is an offshoot.

And what about the Swastika, ancient as ancient can be, found in India and used by the Nazi's, whom believed they were using it as an Aryan symbol, which indeed it was.

Thus the swastika, thought to be the exclusively Aryan symbol of sun-worship misappropriated by the Nazis, vii and found depicted on many of the clay pots unearthed in Arkaim, is an older religious and metaphysical symbol than that attached to the Aryan Sun God, its roots lying in totemic shamanism. René Guénon, the eminent French esotericist, points out that the swastika, symbolizing eternal motion around a motionless centre, is a polar rather than a solar symbol, and as such was a symbol central to the Pole star cult, originally dedicated to a planetary deity connected to Ursa Major, the Great Bear. This centre, Guénon stresses, constitutes the fixed point known symbolically to all traditions as the pole or axis around which the world rotates The swastika is therefore known world-wide as the sign of the pole.

Only later did the Sun, as the centre of the revolving stellar system, replace the Pole Star as the supreme deity of the Pillar cult and lead to the elevation of the Sun God of the Indo-European peoples. It led to their greater intellectual development, to complex civilizations, to advanced arts and sciences and the transcendence of nature.

So, can we find Troy towns in Sumeria, the first civilisation we know of? Sure can, along with their mysterious origins and Gods:

Troy towns like Electris and like Arkaim were built as stellar observatories. Their function was to unite earth to the starry cosmos above according to the principle of as above so below by means of a central axis symbolized by a stone pillar. Thus Diodorus Siculus of the first century BCE, quoting the historian Hecataeus, described the sanctuary of Electris as a troy town after the pattern of the spheres,

by which he meant an astronomical design similar to that of Stonehenge and other ancient sun temples, in which the scheme of the heavenly spheres or astral shells surrounding the earth was represented diagrammatically by a series of concentric circles marked by walls, ditches or moats around a central pillar-stone. ix

These enclosed and heavily guarded sanctuaries sacred to the gods of the greater cosmos were inhabited only by initiated priests and their families, and were forbidden to the wandering nomads beyond the ramparts. The mystery to archaeologists is how such an advanced astronomical science can have been pursued at a time when hunter-gatherers still roamed the land. Colin Wilson, a highly accredited investigator, in answer takes us back to the Sumerians of ancient Mesopotamia, a people who almost certainly had their origin in Central Asia, as the Bible states: As men migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar [sumer] and settled there. Sumer is regarded as the site of one of the first true civilizations in human history.

Wilson points out that the Sumerians were accomplished astronomers who had compiled tables of the motions of all the planets, including Uranus and Neptune, as early as five thousand years ago, long before the existence of Arkaim. He adds that according to the library of clay tablets compiled by the Assyrian King Assurbanipal (669 626 BCE) and unearthed during the nineteenth century, the Sumerians had also understood the precession of the equinoxes, and therefore knew about the zodiac.

In the centre of Atlantis we find the concentric circles, the 'primordial mound' with the temple of Poseidon & Cleito there with the Pillar, just as described above.

Evidently Arkaim was a Wisdom Centre in a network of such Centres that once related all the prehistoric peoples of the earth to each other under the spiritual aegis of the Pillar religion and its priestly elites. The remains of countless similar stone circles, menhirs and troy towns are scattered throughout Europe, the Americas, Eurasia and the Pacific lands, memorials to great crisscrossing migrations of peoples, all loyal to the same axial principle that relates earth to the heavens.

As I have said, various versions of the cult of the World Pillar as it spread around the world were once known from the Americas to northern Africa, where the blond Tamahu worshipped the Magna Mater and her spouse the Heaven-Bearer, as did their cousins in Brittany and Spain. In Hindu India the World Axis, Mt. Meru, ascended into the revolving heavens above through the centre of the three worlds, and in the Canary Islands the Cro-Magnon Guanches, now extinct, worshipped with sacrifices the god of the World Pillar whom they called the God who Holds the Heavens, and who thus prevented the collapse of the foundations of the world. xiv A remnant of this belief-system survives in the legend of Jacobs Ladder in the Hebrew Book of Exodus, in which we learn that on this Ladder angels ascend and descend between heaven and earth.

Each race has considered a certain tree as symbolic of the World Pillar and therefore sacred. In the Voluspa, the song of the Old Norse prophetess, the tree on which the god Odin hung in order to receive the sacred runes was called Yggdrasil, the heaven-pole or world axis. The World Ash Yggdrasil was declared to be the greatest of all trees and the best; its limbs spread over the world and above the heavens, its shaft the pivot of the ever-revolving sky. At the foot of that tree the laws were first brought into being by the Aesir, the Norse gods, and Yggdrasil was worshipped as the source of all higher knowledge.

In reference to the Biblical Tree of Knowledge we can clearly see the representation in it and possibly even the Bible and Creation as a whole. When I read Timaeus again last night, his Creation was just like a more clarified version of Genesis. I was also absorbed by the Biblical phrase of before the Flood there was 'men of old, men of renown'. In looking for the 'original' Mt Meru I have stumbled onto much greater Mt Meru's knowling all along I would find Atlantis at one of them.

To the inhabitants of Sumer, whose language is unknown being neither Indo-European nor Semitic - the Pillar was a dominant religious feature: thus Nippur, one of Sumers chief cities, as long ago as 3800 BCE had the meaning of Bond of Heaven-Earth. A prominent researcher on this subject says that in the text of the Sumerian Enuma Elish, clues to the purpose of Nippur were found in references to a heavenward tall pillar reaching to the sky. xvi In ancient Egypt, the land of the Hamitic peoples, the city of An or Anu, which was renamed Heliopolis by the Greeks, originally meant Pillar City. xvii As a commentator has pointed out, this fact may shed light on the mysterious djed pillar, the backbone of Osiris, often associated with Heliopolis.

I was also looking for references to Heliopolis when I realised that was where Ptah was worshipped, the Primordial Mound creator. I'm not suprised the legends of Osiris pop up in here too and his djed Pillar. In the following we can surely find our 'men of old, men of renown.'

Who, then, were these mysterious Hyperboreans or as we might perhaps better call them, these Elders, these early Masters of Wisdom who understood the importance of the World Axis? The records of most of the Bronze age nations have a legend that an unknown race of Elders gave us kingship and civilization and that they came from the gods and understood the most powerful secrets of our planet secrets that have since been lost.

Who, then, were these mysterious Hyperboreans or as we might perhaps better call them, these Elders, these early Masters of Wisdom who understood the importance of the World Axis? The records of most of the Bronze age nations have a legend that an unknown race of Elders gave us kingship and civilization and that they came from the gods and understood the most powerful secrets of our planet secrets that have since been lost.

The Elders have been known as the Nephilim, the Sons of God, the Annunaki, the Watchers and many other appellations; G. I. Gurdjieff spoke of them as agents of the divine Demiurge from a previous cycle of humanity. But beyond being credited with great wisdom and magical powers as well as having giant stature and extremely high craniums, little more is known about them. Did they really exist? All that can be said with certainty is that they remain a benign shadowy presence moving inscrutably in the background of virtually all the prehistoric traditions of our race.

Next we have what looks right out of a Zechariah Sitchin book but when read correctly it means the people came from the area of Sirius Major and moved down into Europe from their Northern areas, mixed with other races and became a more intelligent people than had previously been in the World apart from up in the North (Hyperborea) ie; Sumerians.

These souls from Sirius, say the ancient texts, descended down the World Axis and incarnated on earth long ago in order to aid our fledgling species. When a great catastrophe towards the end of the Ice Age, around the twelfth millennium BCE, threatened us with extinction, these sons and daughters of the gods instituted the hieros gamos, a genetic science that mingled their genes with ours and so bred a superior human stock with a greater survival potential that spread gradually from the heart of Asia on one hand, and Atlantis on the other, to the rest of the world.

Last but not least:

The climate changed again around the ninth millennium BCE, which is widely regarded as the date of the demise of Atlantis and the enforced dispersal of its people both westward to Central America and eastwards to Europe. Bringing catastrophic earthquakes and coastal flooding to vast areas of the globe xxx and a severe threat to the survival of our species, it was a racial crisis that brought another response from the senior race.

Although the Elders had gone, their dynastic descendants, a long line of Neolithic priest-kings, began a new evolutionary programme. In their migrations from Central Asia, the Ural-Altaic race is credited with establishing in every corner of the earth its Pillar religion, which Platos Critias vividly describes as also the religion of the Atlanteans.

I'm not sure we lived successively over time, but when one reads up alot on the Gods and other mystical things, especially of monks and Shangri-La's and Shambala (also called Inner Earth) you start to see that maybe don't know alot of our prehistory. Didn't Churchward (of Mu) get his ancient Mu information from monks of northern Asia? Pillars in the Pacific.

So, in saying all that, Atlantis may not be here but the Atlanteans a people who derived from them, with knowledge and religion of Gods of the Pillar, the World's Axis or World Tree seen in visions of Mt Meru and Primordial Mounds, of the most ancientest of wisdom, with even the Pillars of Heracles deriving from this lost land of the Arctic.

Any opinions?

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Before we go any further - are we still talking about a Bronze Age culture that fought another Bronze Age culture 6,000 years before the earliest evidence for any Bronze Age culture existing anywhere on the planet? ;)

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Before we go any further - are we still talking about a Bronze Age culture that fought another Bronze Age culture 6,000 years before the earliest evidence for any Bronze Age culture existing anywhere on the planet? ;)

It depends on what we deem 'time'.

What Plato says is 9000 years may not be 9000 years at all in what we understand it as either. Taking into account how old Gods are and even the Egyptians give the Gods as going back around 20,000 years. What does that all mean?

The narrative is called Timaeus and at the core is the theme of, what else, TIME.

Timaeus is not about Atlantis, Timaeus is about the Creation of the Universe.

What is time, is a question we should be asking ourselves, how did time come about? It is based in the celestial bodies and once they knew about their movements and the Earth's rotations and the Moon's phases could time even be comprehended...

Time, an interesting concept in itself. It also depends on how you want to look at the narratives, a bit like the Bible and Creation, look deep enough and don't take it all literally and it will fall into place eventually, in my opinion, as it seems to be doing for me.

I do hold out for an actual place of Atlantis, as descendants of these people I speak of above, the Hyperboreans of the Arctic Circle, the original Aryans and thier Pillar cult.

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As I was saying about the Labyrinth, it is from the most ancient times, here is an interesting site showing the same Cretan Labyrinth found all over the ancient world:

http://mmmgroup.altervista.org/e-labiri.html

It also sees a connection to Atlantis, the 7 number again, there are 7 steps in alchemy to creating the Philosopher's stone, which I found an interesting parallel also to Plato, him being a philosopher. Creating gold from base metal to achieve immortality.......

The centre of the labyrinth is a place to achieve a 'perfect state', the inner self, on a plane with spiritual immortality. The essence of life itself. What Plato is describing in Timaeus.

More on labyrinths:

"Labyrinths are linked to Mandalas - sanskrit for 'circle that contain the Essence'. Like mandalas, labyrinths are archetypal collective symbols that transcend all cultures because they are grounded in consciousness itself."

from:

http://www.crystalinks.com/labyrinths.html

This is an ancient symbol, showing up everywhere in the ancient world, many of the pictures in the first website are the same 7 sided Cretan labyrinth, which Theseus, the Greek hero and killed that pesky Minotaur, half man/bull God. With the help of a little magic thread...

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An example of the Pillar Cult surviving into ancient Egypt, the Benben stone being known for it's association with the Primordial Mound.

http://www.discoverychannel.co.uk/egypt/mo...ben/index.shtml

From Wikipedia:

"Benben, in Egyptian mythology, or more specifically, in the Ogdoad, is the mound that arose from the primordial waters, Nu, that had upon it Atum, sitting. It was said to have turned into a small pyramid, located in Annu, which was the place Atum was said to dwell within.

The Benben stone, named after this, was a sacred stone in the solar temple of Heliopolis. It is thought to have been the prototype for later obelisks, and the capstones of the great pyramids were based on its design."

Poseidon and Cleito 'having intercourse' copulation, the word means benben, on a Primordial Mound, that of Atlantis.

Hephaestus also 'seeded' the Greeks and Egyptians in Timaeus, in the Greek myth, having his sperm creating people.

Hephaestus being Ptah, the Primordial Mound creator God. 1st God of Egypt according to Manetho.

Edited by The Puzzler

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This place is getting so dull, over 100 people have read this thread but only 1 made a post, that is less than 1%. I think my days are over here at UM.

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the boreans were the thracians so its pretty obvious where hyperborea was.

the north pole had seemed to be on the north side of the carpathians until the holocene.

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there was an aurignacian "kingdom" that survived unmolested in the carpathian basin [banat specifically] until well into the post glacial period despite what wiki says

Martial (Epigr. Lib. VIII. 78; Ibid. Epigr. VIII. 50), calls Domitian’s triumph over the Dacians “triumph over the Hyperboreans” and in another place “triumph over the Gigants”. In another epigram he celebrates in this way Domitian’s victories: “Three times did he cross the treacherous horns (the legendary arms) of the Sarmatic Ister; three times he bathed his sweaty horse in the snow of the Getae; and always modest, he refused the triumphs which he deserved, and brought with him only the glory to have defeated the world of the Hyperboreans” (Ibid, Epigr. Lib. IX. 102).

Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 4. 627 ff (trans. Seaton) (Greek epic C3rd B.C.) : "The deep stream of Rhodanos [the Rhone] which flows into Eridanos [mythical northern river of Hyperborea]; and where they meet there is a roar of mingling waters. Now that river, rising from the ends of the earth, where are the portals and mansions of Nyx (Night), on one side bursts forth upon the beach of Okeanos, at another pours into the Ionian sea, and on the third through seven mouths sends its stream to the Sardinian sea and its limitless bay. And from Rhodanos they entered stormy lakes, which spread throughout the Keltic mainland of wondrous size; and there they would have met with an inglorious calamity; for a certain branch of the river was bearing them towards a gulf of Okeanos."

The island of the Hyperboreans, as Hecateus tells us in one of his fragments, also had the name Helixoea

In the Apollinic legends, near the pious Hyperboreans, and north of the Greek zone, appears also the archaic Ocean, which plays such an important role in the Urano - Saturnian theogony. Hecateus Abderitas tells us that Apollo's island from the region of the Hyperboreans, was in the parts of the Ocean.

The name Sibylla per Suidas is Latin. In fact it is proto-Latin. In prehistoric antiquity, when the art of divination had such an important role in public and private life, there were a number of famous Sibyls and they were known to classical times by the names of the various lands where they had originated. But none of these prophetic women originated in Greek lands. The Sibyls were inspired by a deep mystical religious feeling, and this character was lacking to the Greek spirit. According to what Pausanias tells us (lib. X. 12. 1), the first Sibyls were at Delphi, at the renowned temple and oracle, founded there, among the mountains, by the Hyperborean shepherds from north of the Lower Ister.

Sibyla Erythrea had not been the only one to represent the northern oracles in southern lands. A whole group of northern prophets were known in antiquity, like the Hyperborean shepherds, who founded the oracle of Delphi (Pausanias, lib. X. 5. 7), like Abaris the Hyperborean, who wrote a whole book of oracles known under the name of "Scythicae" (Suidas, 'Abaris), and also like the anonymous founders of Apollo's oracle of Delos. Finally, Latona (Leto) and Ilithyia, worshipped as divinities, and the virgins Arge and Opis, celebrated in the religious songs of the Delians and Ionians (Herodotus, lib. IV. 35), belong to the same category of holy women gone south from Hyperborean lands. Sibylla Erythrea, by her biographical data, as well as by her severe religious principles not influenced by the Greek spirit, was an illustrious representative of the wisdom and religion of the Hyperboreans, or Pelasgians from north of the Istru. "The people of Ellada call me a woman from "another country" says she in her oracles.

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Before we go any further - are we still talking about a Bronze Age culture that fought another Bronze Age culture 6,000 years before the earliest evidence for any Bronze Age culture existing anywhere on the planet? ;)

29 April 2007

Hungarian burial site yields unique archaeological find

Archaeologists exploring a Neolithic burial site in Tolna County (Hungary), have discovered what may easily be the most exciting tomb ever unearthed in Europe, Professor Istvan Zalai-Gaal, who has been leading the diggings, reported.

The tomb is 7,000 years old and was the burial chamber of a tribal chieftain. There is a heavy upright log in each corner, believed to have originally held an aboveground structure over the 2x2m tomb. Inside, said Zalai-Gaal, archaeologists found polished stone axes and other stone tools typical of the Neolithic, as well as the largest stone knife ever to be recovered from that period. They also discovered a decorated bullhorn, a marble war club and an axe head that though stone, bears the shape of a Bronze Age weapon.

Scientists believe the tribe was aware of metal tools but did not have the metal to make any, leading them to copy the form. Also discovered was a necklace made of hundreds of bronze beads, combined with shells from the Mediterranean, the latter obviously traded goods, said Zalai-Gaal. One had to be extraordinarily wealthy to have a necklace like this, he pointed out.

Some 14,000 square metres have been excavated on this site, probably the largest known Stone Age dig in Europe. Over one million artefacts have been uncovered, Zalai-Gaal added, saying that the exploration was ongoing, though the site was in the pathway of a motorway that was under construction.

Source: MTI (23 April 2007)

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Thank 'God' for shemTov, my boredom is eased now...

I agree shem, Hyperborea was actually above Boreas' land of Thrace, which unlike today must have been a very cold place in it's northern areas. The Carpathians may have been part of lower Hyperborea, which I believe went up as far as they knew then, possibly to the Baltic Sea, whose people would have been aware of lands even further North. So indeed the religion of the Pillars and the North Axis as well as the area of the origins of the Aryans or Indo-Europeans was in the area you speak of, but I don't see it as being Atlantis myself, but an ancestor of the Atlanteans and certainly somewhere associated with Apollo before they headed south. Atlas spends some time in Hyperborea but 'golden haired' Leto, Apollo and Artemis are certainly Hyperboreans. I have also added a post into my Atlantis Discussion Thread of where I am placing Atlantis in a geological position after absorbing all this new info.

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puzz you just say no but have no reasons.

hyperboreans [aurginacians] would be haplogroup r

my atlanteans are haplogroup j or more specifically j2 and their daddy was IJ

gravettians [from the balkans] are haplogroup i and their daddy was IJ

the aurignacians lived on the choicest land in a sea of foothill and mountain gravettians into the post glacial [8000bc]. they had been there for over 30000years. i don't consider the gods to be atlanteans do you?

the magdalenians kept their respectful distance at the western edge of the carpathian basin.

Edited by shemTov

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puzz you just say no but have no reasons.

hyperboreans [aurginacians] would be haplogroup r

my atlanteans are haplogroup j or more specifically j2 and their daddy was IJ

gravettians [from the balkans] are haplogroup i and their daddy was IJ

the aurignacians lived on the choicest land in a sea of foothill and mountain gravettians into the post glacial [8000bc]. they had been there for over 30000years. i don't consider the gods to be atlanteans do you?

the magdalenians kept their respectful distance at the western edge of the carpathian basin.

I don't think Aurginacians are the Hyperboreans, they are in France aren't they? These people don't have to have the same haplogroup but they are of the same religion. The original female (Cleito) of the area of what became Atlantis mixed with a God (religion) to become Atlantis. Not like a male called Poseidon actually conceived with her, the myth names are used in allegory of what they represent. A female who adopted the Pillar cult, also seen as a Phallic symbol. Like Geb holds up the sky with his 'phallus', Atlas can also be seen as a representation of the same.

My reasons are in my post at my Atlantis Discussion thread. I consider the Gods and their Pillar/Sun cult to be the ancestors of the Atlanteans, Poseidon being a God himself and ancestor of the Atlanteans, they certainly would have lived by the Godly rules, the pillar religion is my basis for most of this, being associated with the World Axis, North Pole, constellations of the far north, Pillar of the Sky and the Pillar they poured the libation over in Atlantis, in other words, Atlas. I also believe that Atlantis comprised from Northern Thrace across to Macedonia with Thessaly and the Aegean Sea across to Lemnos and the northern part of the Dardanelles, giving a rectangular shape and Mt Olympus itself being the representation of Atlas, I believe there is also a temple to Isis and Osiris at Mt Olympus. The Greeks Mt Meru or primordial mound.

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The bearers of most or all Upper Paleolithic technologies were H. sapiens. Some locally developed transitional cultures (Szletian in Central Europe and Chatelperronian in the Southwest) use clearly Upper Paleolithic technologies at very early dates and there are doubts about who were their carriers: H. sapiens or Neanderthal man.

Nevertheless, the definitive advance of these technologies is made by the Aurignacian culture. The origins of this culture can be located in what is now Bulgaria (proto-Aurignacian) and Hungary (first full Aurignacian). By 35,000 B.C., the Aurignacian culture and its technology had extended through most of Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_Europe

atlantis must rise and become a barrier to navigation on the pelagos of atlas which is part of oceanos which at the time was fresh water.

pelagos can simply mean a flooded plain right?

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Since I have discovered Osiris's origins which appear to be in the area of the lower Danube as the God Zamolxis, I have also had my own thoughts reinforced that the Egyptians came from this area also. This all relates to following the Sky Column or Pillar/World Axis/Polaris religion. The Djed Pillar is a representation of this. This is a religion that the Pelasgians adopted and then spread.

I also think that there was a Pannon Sea, a fresh water sea in the Carpathians where Wallachia is now due to rereading myths once again.

Here is some interesting reading that gives some evidences of the Pillar cult of the Lower Danube originating in Hyperborea spreading all around the world, it's long but if anyone really is interested in solving mysteries, should take the time to read.

http://www.pelasgians.bigpondhosting.com/website2/14_06.htm

XIV. 6. The Sky Column from the Carpathians as symbol of the Egyptian trinity.

The colonization and reign of the Pelasgians in North Africa begins in times extremely remote.

Egypt in particular is characterized by a Neolithic European civilization, whose character is Pelasgian (Morgan, Recherches sur les origins de l’Egypte, Paris, 1896-97).

Herodotus mentions the Pelasgian colonies in Africa.

In the western parts of the river Triton, or in the province called “Africa” at the time of the Romans, existed an agricultural population called Maxyes, who, as they said, were originated from the nation of the Trojans (lib. IV. c. 191).

Carthage itself was Pelasgian in the beginning, later though this city fell under the rule of a commercial colony from Tyre (Silius Italicus, Punica, lib. XV. p.444). But the population from the territory subjected to Carthage was not Phoenician. It had remained Pelasgian, as can be ascertained from the big progress made by the Roman civilization in those parts, as well as from the particularities of the folk Latin language which has developed there.

Other African tribes had European mores and traditions too.

Getulii, the most numerous people of Libya (Mela, lib. I. c. 3; Eustathius, Commentarii in Dionysium, v. 215), which began at the shores of the Atlantic ocean and stretched towards south of Mauritania, Numidia and Cyrenaica, appear by their name, as well as by their traditions and ethnic character, as a population migrated there from the south-east parts of Europe.

The episcope Isidor of Sevilla writes about them: “It is said that Getulii were Getae, who departing from their places in very large numbers, with their ships, had occupied the Syrtes of Libya, and because they had come from the territory of the Getae, they were called Getuli” (Origines, lib. IX. 1. 118).

Other pastoral tribes which had gone forth from the Carpathians and the Lower Danube, had settled in Ethiopia even in very remote times.

Pliny the Old mentions in the upper parts of the Nile, in Ethiopia, a tribe with the name of Dochi, and near them another population with Pelasgian mores and beliefs, called by the Greek authors Macrobii (lib. VI. 35. 12), long lived. Under this name were known in Europe the Hyperboreans, about whom it was said that they lived longer and happier than any other people in the world (Mela, lib. III. 5).

Among the Ethiopian kings some have until late the name of Ramhai, Letem, Rema and Armah (Drouin, Les listes royals Ethiopiennes, Paris 1882, p.50-53), names the origin of which goes back to ante-Roman times.

But the Pelasgians of Egypt had played a special role in the civilization of Africa.

Ammon was one of the most ancient kings of Libya and Egypt. This Ammon was, as traditions tell us, a great shepherd, a “man rich in sheep” (Tertullian, De pallio. 3), nephew of Atlas from the country of the Hyperboreans (according to some old traditions Ammon’s mother was Pasiphae, the daughter of Atlas – Plutarch, Agis, c. 9), that Atlas who appears at the same time as the ancestor of a number of famous dynasties and families of Hellada, Troy and Latium.

In the sacred texts of the Egyptians, Ammon has also the name of Altaika (Pierret, Le livre d. morts, Ch. CLXV. 1-3), a form derived from Alutus, Greek ‘Atlas, which corresponds to the Romanian ethnic name of “Oltean”, from the region of Olt.

He is also named Remrem (Ibid. Ch. LXXV. 1. 2), meaning Ramlen, Arim or Ariman and Harmakhis or Armakhis (Pierret, Le Pantheon egyptien, p. 95), which presents only an Egyptian form of the ethnic Greek work ‘Arimaspeios and ‘Arimaspos, which in turn was only a simple variant of the name ‘Arimaios and ‘Arimfaios. Suidas also mentions that ‘Arimanios was the god of the Egyptians (see ‘Arima).

Thebes, the oldest and biggest city of Egypt and of the whole world, the center of a prosperity without equal in history, the ancient seat of the Egyptian dynasty and the metropolis of the cult of Ammon, has a Pelasgian name.

These Thebans, as Diodorus Siculus writes, said that they were the most ancient among all the mortals (lib. I. 50. 1; Ibid, I. 87. 9). One of their religious symbols was the bird par excellence of the high mountains, the vulture (aquila, aetos).

The most ancient kings of Egypt mentioned by the sacred archives of the temples had been Vulcan, the son of Vulcan, Saturn (Osiris and Isis, the children of Saturn), Typhon, Mars, Hercules and Apollo (Manethonis Sebennytae, Fragmenta in Mullerus, Fragmenta Hist. graec. Tom. II. p.526-531), these being the great personalities of Pelasgian history in Europe, whose names were neither Greek, nor Egyptian.

Saturn had reigned over Libya and Sicily and had colonized those lands (Polemonis Iliensis, Fragm. 102 in Gragm. Hist. gr. III. 148). And Diodorus Siculus tells us that Saturn, the brother of Atlas, had reigned over Sicily, Libya, Italy and had extended his empire over all the western regions, establishing garrisons everywhere, in citadels and in fortified places (lib. III. 61).

Even during the Neolithic epoch, countless tribes of Pelasgians departed with their large flocks from the Carpathians towards Hellada and Asia Minor, and from Asia Minor continued little by little down, along the shores of Lebanon, and finally, together with other tribes from Hellada and the islands of the archipelago, they reached the expansive plains of the Nile.

Disciplined people, religious, laborious and warlike at the same time, the Pelasgian shepherds and farmers were masters during those remote times, wherever they settled. They took with them their national institutions, an established ancestral religion, their divinities and priests, and they formed their political centers wherever they settled.

But the sacred country of the Egyptian Pelasgian religion was still that particular one from the ends of the earth, from the Oceanos potamos or Istru. In that part of the world were for the ancient Pelasgians of Egypt “the divine region”, their ancient religious monuments, the images of their protective gods, the country of their ancestors, worshipped as gods. Their sacred mountains, the sky columns were there. According to ancient Egyptian beliefs the divine region of the wheat was there (Pierret, Le livre d. morts. Ch. CXI. 5), there was the place of abundance, where the wheat grew 7 ells high, the straw 4 ells and the ear 3 ells.

There was the place of rebirth, the country of eternal life, which the Hyperboreans, and later on the Getae and the Dacians, promoted with such religious conviction. There the souls of the dead of Egypt migrated, in order to continue with a new and blessed life (Pierret, Le livre d. morts. Ch. LV. 1; Ch. LXXV 1. 2), exactly like the souls of the Pelasgian heroes of Hellada did.

There was the great divine river, called Nun, “father of the gods” (Ibid. Ch. XVII. 3-4), which flew from west towards east, identical with Oceanos potamos or prehistoric Istru. Exactly like in the Pelasgian legends of Greece, the sun rose from the great divine river Nun (Oceanos) and set also in it (Ibid. Ch. XV. 18, 19). During the day the disc of the sun sailed on the river Nun in its divine boat (Maspero, Egypte et Chaldee, p.18), and at night it disappeared in the straits of the mountains called Dait, in the somber shadows of the night (Ibid, p.19). As the papyri tell us, the souls of the Osiric faithful crossed the river Nun in the boat of the sun, to this divine country (Pierret, Le livre d. morts, Ch. I. 18. 19; Ch. LXVII. 2), to till the earth, to plough, saw and harvest (Ibid. Ch. LXXV. 1; ChXII. 1. 2; Ch. CIX. 13; Ch. CXX. 2). Crossing over the river Nun, the Egyptian souls stood firstly in front of the gods, to be judged by them (Ibid. Ch. VI; XII. XVII. 95; LXIX. 5; LXXII; CXXV) at the place called “the region of truth” (Ibid. Ch. CXXV 12-13), where there was also an iron enclosure called Rosta and Rostau (Ibid, Ch. XVII. 1; Ch. CXIX. 2; CXXVI 4-5; CXXX. 9. Rosteiu means in Romanian language iron bars, or interwoven iron or wooden rods used as grilles for windows, etc). And after the Egyptian deceased were examined, purified and their heart hold the balance of the scales, they passed into the divine lower region which the Egyptian papyri call the place of rebirth (Ibid. Ch. VI; XV. 15. 21; LVIII. 2; XVII. 79), the country of eternity (Ibid. Ch. XV. 7). This region was inhabited by the spirits and the people called Mani (ancestors), 8 ells tall, and in its eastern side were the spirits and people called Harmakhis (Ibid, Ch. XV. 15; LV. 1; CIX 4-6; CXLIX 4-5, 18, 332).

These Egyptian beliefs were based on an ancient Pelasgian doctrine.

It was the institution of the great mysteries of the Hyperboreans for the purification and expiation of the crimes done during lifetime, mysteries whose purpose was the belief in life after death and the necessity to expiate one’s sins through penitence.

The Pelasgians were the initiators and organization of the first mysteries known in antiquity.

To them belonged the initiation of the mysteries of Samothrace, Crete and Eleusis. These mysteries were based on the cult of the subterranean divinities (chtonic, lower) and the purification was made in the name of these divinities. They were usually celebrated at night and in subterranean places, in order to excite even more the imagination of those initiated.

Plato mentions the institution of the great Hyperborean mysteries from the north of Istru in Axiochus.

The virgins Opis and Hecaerge, sent by the Hyperboreans with gifts to Delos, had taken there also two copper tablets, which contained a detailed description of this institution. It was said that the souls of the deceased went firstly to a subterranean dwelling, to the palace of Pluto. The entryway which led to this palace was shut with an iron grille. After the gate opened, the souls went firstly before the judges Minos and Rhadamanthis in the “Field of Truth”. There the judges examined in detail the life of each, and those who had done good in life were given a place in the region of the pious, where the earth produced all sort of fruit and the plain is full of flowers, where is neither harsh winter, nor excessive heat, but a temperate air, warmed by the sweet rays of the sun, where the souls enjoy themselves in feasts and play, in philosophical discussions and assist to theatre or music representations. The tablets said finally that Hercules and Dionysos or Osiris had been also initiated there in those mysteries

The image with which the ancient Egyptian theology symbolized the principal, or eastern pillar of the sky, was only a faithful copy of the north face of the column which exists even today on Omul Peak on the Carpathians.

As the divine region or of the gods was, according to Egyptian traditions and beliefs, in the northern parts of the world, across the river Nun or Istru, the Egyptian theology had similarly adopted the religious symbol of the creation, represented by the gigantic column of the sky from the Carpathians, exactly as the Pelasgians of Mycenae had also done.

The symbol of the Egyptian trinity presents the same contours as the exterior shape of the north-western face of the column from the Carpathians. Even more: there is an absolute identity between the two, when we examine the figures which we see shown on these archaic monuments.

In the upper part of the column from Omul Peak can be seen even today the contours of a woman’s naked body, with her back up and face down, with her head to the west and the thighs to the east, a figure represented in the same style in which the Egyptian symbol presents Nut, the lady of the sky. We also find here the same particularities of the line which forms the upper contour, while the lower line marks also the shape of the woman’s breast.

Finally, on the same face of the column, in the middle, towards left, can be made out even today, but with great difficulty, the marks almost vanished of the bust of the divinity Chnum, whose attribute was the head of the ram.

The Pelasgians had reigned over Egypt during the primitive times of history (Maspero, Egypte et Chaldee, p.47), like they had reigned also over Hellada and over the western parts of Asia.

But they shared the same fate of those of Hellada.

A new element, another race of men brought there probably from the upper regions of the Nile, rose later to the rule over the ancient Pelasgian stratum, which had made from the swampy plains of Egypt an agricultural country, which had put there the first foundation of civilization.

It was the pharaonic population, which at the time when it settled in Egypt had been neither pastoral nor agricultural. Very probably these ante-historic Semites had been brought into Egypt by Pelasgians to serve as slaves to their great irrigation and reclamation works, for the canals which crisscross the entire Egypt, for the tilling of the fields, for opening new roads and for their cyclopean buildings. These signs of enslavement are expressed even in the prayers addressed by the souls of the Egyptian mummies to their supreme divinities residing at the north of Istru.

These pharaonic Egyptians considered that the first inhabitants of the plains of the Nile had been the gods who had reigned over Egypt in prehistoric times (Homer calls the Pelasgians “divine”, meaning that they drew their origin from the gods – Iliad, X. v. 429; Odyss. XIX. v. 177), and whose the principal country and residence had been at the north of Istru (Nun).

To these men-gods, who had once ruled over the south and north regions (Africa and Europe), address the Egyptian mummies their prayers, to be allowed in the other world to till the earth, to plough, to sow, to harvest, to floods the rivers over the dry earth and to transport sand from west to east (Pierret, Le livre d. morts, Ch. VI. 1; Ch. VI. 3; Ch. XII. 2; Ch. CXX. 2). They are called in their Osiric prayers Ro – bi, meaning slaves (Ibid. Ch. CIV. 2. 3).

These Egyptians, descendents of Sem and Cham, considered themselves happy to work as slaves for their gods, even in the life destined to eternal rest.

It had been a severe religion, with a social and political character, formed by the priestly caste of the ruling Pelasgians, in order to subject a race of men destined to a perpetual servitude.

When the African race took the reign, the ancient history of Egypt changed.

The new race had adopted under the Pelasgian empire the elements of an ancient advanced civilization, had adopted the political and social institutions and the religious principles of their masters, but which it had largely modified and to which it had given forms suitable to its African character.

For this new element in the history of Egypt, the geographical region of the north, the ancient domain of the Pelasgian race, became a mythological region. And the Column from the Carpathians symbolized for these Osiric Egyptians the territory of the terrestrial paradise [3].

The Pelasgians of Sicily had, as we see, exactly as the Pelasgians of Greece and Italy, a belief in a survival in another blessed terrestrial region.

It was the doctrine of the Hyperboreans.

It was the same belief, as expressed in the tablets sent by them to Delos, that the souls of the deceased went for the supreme judgment to a certain place of their country, from where those who had led virtuous lives passed into the region of the pious (Plato, Opera, Ed. Didot, Tom. II. p. 561).

According to the ancient ethnic genealogies, the territory of the titan Atlas from the country of the Hyperboreans appears as the original country of several tribes and a number of important princely families from Hellada, Asia Minor, Africa and Italy.

Atlas, writes Diodorus Siculus (lib. III. c. 60), had several daughters, who, by marrying the most distinguished heroes and even gods, had sons who for their virtues were called heroes and gods, and were at the same time the originators of several families.

On a fragment of a vase discovered in Apulia, Atlas, the lord of the blessed country of the Hyperboreans, founder of several southern Pelasgian families, that Atlas in whose kingdom not only the fruit, but also the branches of the trees were of gold, is shown sitting on a throne, in complete regal paraphernalia (Roscher, Lexikon der gr. u.rom. Mythologie. I. p.710).

Doubtless, this image had a genealogical character. The artist had wished to represent one of the most glorious ancestors of some Ausonic family of Apulia.

As for the mythological representation of the titan Atlas, he is shown on another vase from Apulia supporting the sky, figured in the shape of a globe (Ibid. I. p.710). He appears in the same way also on an Etruscan mirror from Vulci (Daremberg, Dict. d. ant. See Atlas).

The idea to represent the sky or the universe in the shape of a globe is very ancient.

According to Plato (Axiochus – Ed. Didot. Tom. II. p. 561), the Hyperboreans had been the first to consider the universe as a sphere, at the centre of which was the Earth.

And according to Diodorus Siculus (lib. IV. 27. 5), king Atlas, whose empire was near Oceanos (potamos), had possessed very exact knowledge of astrology and had been the first to regard the universe as a globe, because of which it was said that the entire firmament rests on Atlas (Pliny, Hist. Nat. lib. II. 2; lib. II. 6. 3; lib. VII. 57. 12).

This mystical sign, which prehistoric archaeology could not explain so far, represents on its lower part the sky column, in the shape of a stunted pyramid (trapeze), having figured above it the sky, in the same shape as on the hieroglyphic monuments of Egypt, a horizontal line with the ends bent downwards.

This religious symbol of the future life and of the divine region tells us therefore that the ancient Etruscan religion was the same as the religion of the Pelasgians from the Istru, Argos and Egypt. This symbol expressed in particular the same religious belief that the souls of the deceased went to the residence of the gods (at the Oceanos potamos), where was the Atlantean Olympus, in the country of the just, long lived Hyperboreans, where the sky was supported on the earth, where the supreme judgment took place, where was the place of happiness, the region of the pious

We find the Sky Column from the Carpathians represented on two antique monuments of Sicily. One is a painting on a ceramic vase, the other is a funerary stela.

We shall talk here about both these relics of great importance for the history of the Sky Column from the ancient country of the Hyperboreans.

According to Homer (Iliad, XVIII. v. 140 seqq), the smithy of Vulcan was on ancient Olympus. Thetis, Achilles’ mother, addresses the following words to her sisters: “I am going to the great Olympus, to Vulcan, the illustrious master craftsman, to have him make fine, shiny weapons for my son”.

On the vase from Sicily the smithy of Vulcan is indicated as being close to the rock to which Prometheus is led, and this rock, we say it again, presents in everything the contours of the W-NW face of the column from the Carpathians.

We have here therefore an important document from the Italo-Greek antiquity, a document which gives us an absolute certitude that the prehistoric Olympus of the theogony, the Olympus from the ends of the earth, according to Hesiod, was that mountain on which were the legendary columns of the sky, Atlas from the country of the Hyperboreans, Olympus atlantiacus at Calpurnius (IV. v. 83), today Omul Peak of Bucegi Mountains, near the Lower Istru, where there are, apart from the columns, the other monuments famous in the history of theogony, the figure of Zeus aigiochos and the cyclopean altars.

This same belief is expressed also by Hesiod when he says that the souls of the heroes fallen in the wars of Thebes and Troy had been taken to the blessed islands from the ends of the earth, near the Ocean with deep eddies (Opera et Dies, v. 161 seqq). One of these blessed islands was, as we know, Leuce island from the mouths of the Danube (Pliny, lib. IV. 27. 1: “eadem Leuce et Macaron appellata”). Here the legends and the ancient paintings show us Achilles, Ajax, Telamon, Patroclus, Antilochus, Menelaus, Helena and Agamemnon, leading a happy and eternal life (Pausanias)

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Since I have discovered Osiris's origins which appear to be in the area of the lower Danube as the God Zamolxis, I have also had my own thoughts reinforced that the Egyptians came from this area also. This all relates to following the Sky Column or Pillar/World Axis/Polaris religion. The Djed Pillar is a representation of this. This is a religion that the Pelasgians adopted and then spread.

I also think that there was a Pannon Sea, a fresh water sea in the Carpathians where Wallachia is now due to rereading myths once again.

Here is some interesting reading that gives some evidences of the Pillar cult of the Lower Danube originating in Hyperborea spreading all around the world, it's long but if anyone really is interested in solving mysteries, should take the time to read.

puzz i think its time you wrote your book.

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puzz i think its time you wrote your book.

Yep, my hubby always asks me if all my time spent on here (instead of doing housework) is gonna make me some money one day... :geek:

I have my flags ready too shem. Bring 'em on. Plato speaks in allegory and truth.

Everything has fallen into place, the Egyptians and Osiris' origins, the myths that just didn't gel in the areas they said, Troy, Herodotus, Sesostris and those darn Colchians, Ethiopia, Phoenicians, Zamolxis also has a name that starts with Gebel....Gebel being Byblos, Etruscans, just looking at an Etruscan book I got at the library I couldn't help but notice a vase with picture exactly the same art as the Naqqada pictures, lined sails, everything makes sense to me now. The funny thing is, notice how in each link I have given Plato makes confirmation of so much of this in his other works, he knows what's going on alright. 9000 years is simply 'God' years, we can see that in the Egyptian legends, Gods having been around for over 20,000 years. Note also it cannot have been same time frame all along because at first 'ships and sailing were not of yet' but later in the story by the time they are building up the mound, they have triremes able to pass under the bridges in the canals. As to the Pillars of Heracles and Gades, I have my own ideas I need to just build into it some more. I can make it work in one of 2 ways. These people certainly did subjugate Tyrrhenia to Egypt.

This part you obviously noted in Wiki was the giveaway that made me go, hmmm. How would one remember that from half a million years ago?

Both Homer (Odyssey, XII. 1) and Hesiod (Theogonia, v.242. 959) in their theogonic legends exclusively refer to the lower Danube as the Okeanos Potamos, possibly due to it being remembered as the remnant of when the Pannonian and lower Danubian basins were under water.

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Gebel

gebeleizis is a combo of two parts, gebel and azizis. you can find azizis on the tabula peutingeriana. azizis itself is very ancient, seen it anywhere before as someones son? its just a few kliks away from caput bubula [first cow or cow grandmother] on the tabula. today you might hear caput bubula called parta [big cow cult centre now called sag] and azizis is called jebel.

zalmoxis had a great underground dwelling built [secretly?] where he retreated for 3? years. during that time a great catastrophe struck the people. he reappeared and saved the remainders. i would call his dwelling the apsu, vara of yima, royal enclosure of the tuat, pen of geryon etc.

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gebeleizis is a combo of two parts, gebel and azizis. you can find azizis on the tabula peutingeriana. azizis itself is very ancient, seen it anywhere before as someones son? its just a few kliks away from caput bubula [first cow or cow grandmother] on the tabula. today you might hear caput bubula called parta [big cow cult centre now called sag] and azizis is called jebel.

zalmoxis had a great underground dwelling built [secretly?] where he retreated for 3? years. during that time a great catastrophe struck the people. he reappeared and saved the remainders. i would call his dwelling the apsu, vara of yima, royal enclosure of the tuat, pen of geryon etc.

wow. these names are sure hard to say.

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wow. these names are sure hard to say.

i've seen you type a few three syllable words. these are no harder. just sound them out.

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INTRODUCING:[/size][/color]

" BlueHue"s :geek: dissident Atlantis Theory:

Main fault of mainstream Atlantologists is that they are Hobby-Historians with Math's/ Beta degrees

so that they fall in every" Ancient History Tourist trap" !

PLATO's Atlantis is a SATYRE on Athen's HYBRIS in the WAR on Syracuse

Plato did use an older Myth on the same basis of the War between ATLANTIS and ATHENS

but these were in the older Myth in South-ARABY

ATLANTIS is a correct LATIN translation from " Greek ATHETA-Land or" Ad-Land-of-Ad "

The lame argument that all contemporary writer/historians also used the Geo-name Atlantis

cutsa no wood, because these were translated into LATIN aswell

So ,99% of the mainstream Atlantologists use the wrong name The Atlantic should be the Ocean -of- Ad" instead

This cutts of ALL theories of Atlantis i n America or Europe just because

the original Atlanteans were colonizers of ancient Europe thus Europe can never have been" Atlantis "( nor America !)

America is( not ) New-Atlantis

The whole America as Atlantis Scherade is the result of a DECREE by King Ferdinat-1 of SPAIN in 1500

THAT SPAIN/ HESPERIS WERE THE ORIGINAL ATLANTIS, a political statement to twart the 1498 TORDESILLIAS partition agreement.

in calling SPAIN the original Atlantis King Ferdinant-1 thought to awe the rest of Europe to recognize Spain's herital right

on the " New" Atlantis which some calledAmerica.

PLATO's Atlantis TEXTUS RECEPTUS was word-corrupted

was corrupted by later translators who made falsh latin translations from the original Greek:

Forinstance the ISLE(= NESO-)Atlantis was actually a SEA- COAST region called:" PELAGOUS- Atlantikoum "

It was NOT larger or bigger than 2 Continents but than the Coasts of Lybia and ASIA and

Atlantis PROMONTORY, was situated MID-IN- BETWEEN them !

The MID- EARTH SEAor WORLD- OCEAN,

was later corrupted into the OKEANOS -POTAMOS but in greek this was the PONTUS- SEA

The TRUE SEA or Middle/ Earth SEA(= Mediaterranean SEA.)was the RED- Sea or Sinus-Arabicus and

THAT OTHER SEA (=the Indian Ocean )was the " REAL" Sea !

the PONTUS or MARE- DANOS(= today GULF of ADEN.)was but a Port-bay with a narrow entrance

We whittled Atlantis down to less that HALF- SIZE:

The enormous exaggerated figuers and Timeline come from the confusion of witing X x X instead of X + X

As we know: XX=20 , X + X is also 20, but X x X is Hundred ! Even the egyptian KETHA discussed by Dr KUHNE ( Germany)was tyoo large.)

So to be sure all data in Cyphers on Plato's Atlantis SURVEY-measures are 80% too large thus 20 instead of 100 times One STADE

'GEORGEOS' DIAZ from Brazil thought so too but still adhers tothe DISPROVED notion of: " Atlantis-Tartessos/ Taragonis" in Spain,"

ATLANTIS CATACLYSM was not in 10.000 bc but in 1055 & 855 bc.

THUS the Demise of Atlantis occurred in 855 bc NOT in 1200 bc nor at the date of TROY's fall in 1193 bc( which actually was in 860 bc.

All Atlabntologist ignored that Atlantis had falled TWICE in 1055 and 855 bc

In 1055 bc THOT ordered the PELASGIAN KING ( Named eponymal-) Pelasgos to repair the dammage of the FIRST Tsunami that had hit Atlantis.

Atlantis was built in to slopes of a MUD - volcano CALDEIRA not unlike Port ADEN where the ruins now linger at 50 m depth

Alas only 200 years later another TSUNAMI or cataclysm hit Atlantis for good.

ATLANTIS as Jewish/ Persian PARADISE was DEMONIZED in 855 bc

The reason that we forgot that the GREEKS an JEWS alike were actually two brances of the original PELASGIANS

they were the HYKSOS ! Who came down with SARGON-1 originally as Landsettlers from the Hindu-Kush valley ogf KARAKORUM in-only- 1250 bc.)

( Prof. of Econ.of BREMEN- Univ. Gunnar HEINSOHN equated King SARGON(-2)

( Meaning " King of Elephant Country".)with Sanherib in a treatise called:" SARGON's MIRROR.>>1998 )

These invading proto-greeks or Hyksos who resided in THEOMA and HADRAMAUT with their Capital" Poseidonis" or SION in ADEN

brought the Elephants" of Atlantis" with them. and employed them as the ( Tsunami-)WATCHERS(= GRIGORI/ CHERUBIM.)

on the Walls of' SION"( = EL-ySION.)were the NEPHILLIM=RAFIDIM-Elephants resided.

These " PRAJA PATI or ELDER-PATRIARCHS " were Arabian White Elephants who were trained to Pre-WARN for the( Annual !) Tsunamies.

Atlantis was flooded by a tidal wave

Tsunamies are ( Stil ) Caused by the MOON when in CONJUNCTION with MARS

So, when in 855 bc the GOD-King Salmanasser-2 besieged PORT- ADEN- Crater

The assyrian Army was drowned by a MOON-caused Tsunami and The King wanted revence on someone.

Thus the White Holi Elephant

the " GOD of the( Arabian-)PUNT was made the Culprit as the official AVATAR of the MOON(= Pallas.)

The Pillars of Hercules/Chronos wereactually theWhite Holi-ELEPHANTS( hidi" LOKA- PALLAS ") in Atala(= Whiteland of ADEN.)

Paleontologists know that the Species of the White arabian Elephant( ELEPHAS - MAXIMUS - ASSYRUS.) became extinct around 800 bc

but, THEY AS TECHNOLOGY BUFFS NEVER THOUGHT TO LINK the white Elephant's extinction to the superstition of an assyrian GOD-King!

CONCLUSION:

Atlantis is actually Ad-Land

which in Koran SURAT- 89 - is described as: PORT - ADEN - Crater

It is indeed hard to believe that the Deserts of Rub- al Khali once were a LAKE- District *(= before the Quarternary LAKE( dam-) BURST ! )

The Ancients and PLATO, never were in any doubt

where Atlantis/ Ad-Land was because it was along the Known WORLD of ARABY.

Atlantis-City were the Capital of the " Known" WORLD and the WORLD- SEA

was surrounding the " Known" WORLD thus the RED- SEA that washed the Coasts of ARABY(= Oikumene !)

Atlantis was never an islebut a

(= Promontory)and NOT in the Atlantic neither ( but in the Mare-Erytraeum or Mer- Arabe/ indian Ocean.

Thus the PILLARS of HERACLES/ Chronios were originally at " Sea strait of " BAB el- Mandab "(= Gate of Tears and the ACHERON

was the SEA of TEARS or the PONTOON -SEA ( today the Gulf of Aden.)

GUlf of ADEN is also that ellusive PISON-River(=of'Paradise')called ACHA-AD or Escheria.)

that surrounded HAVILAH(= Hadramaut.)(

which became confused with the PHASIS or Indus-River.)

I knew that

allready but Forum Member QOAIS did not believe me, so she searched evidence to the contrary and

she stumbled upon a quote from Diodorus Sicculus or some other ancient writer telling that

The original Pillars were at Bab el- Mandab and only came to Gibraltar in 220 when General HASDRUBAL

Re-named SPAIN as the NEW- Atlantis( HEBERIA or IBERIA for HYPER- Boria.)when he Founded CADIZ & Cartagena( =Nova.)

SO, all atlantologists are hapily barking up the wrong Traditional Tree

meanwhile accusing me of beiing a dissident Atlantologist.

While they perfectly know that all Theories of Atlantis as a MID- ATLANTIC ISLE are null and void.

But to admid that means " Loosing Face "and anyway their false theories are works of litterary art in themselves!

So nobody cares if they are based on corrupted information !

Never the less

for abandoning Ancient meanstream tradition at Home I am regarded as a regular idiot

which compelled me to live likedan internet Recluse alas rest is not my destiny

For the NEW highbrow-neighbours frequently complained to the National Health Service

for getting me out of" Their" neighbourhood

BOOK BURNING, seems a favorite pasttime in DELFT/ Hiolland

I already lost thousands of stored Textbooks from my livingroom

at the end of this year they threatned to burn the remaining 2.000 on ancient history

My valued example Dr Velikovsky the geologist turned astro-Phycisist never had it so hard !

You know what the Proverb says" A Philosopher in his own country is seldomly honored "

Most comments I got from this narative was" TOO Complicated and similar ONE- LINERS

I doubt I will fare better here !.

The Clever-conniving Greek publisher " HELIO- TOPOS "

who organized the 2nd Atlantis Conference in ATHENS (and the past SCI- FI-TV- Program on Atlantis theories ,)

were not pleased with the finding of the REAL Atlantis he will be stuck with the other ( faulty-)Atlantis Theory Books !

In Nov.10 2008, also starts another cultural Conference in MALAYSIA( I forget where in Singapore perhaps)without any Atlantis Lecture.

The fact that in different countries Atlantis(= Ad-Land.) is written evenmore falsely as " ATLANTIA, ATLANTIDA or ATLANTIDE is a bad omen

Sincerely " BlueHue " :geek: a dissident viewer on Atlanti's theory

dd 13 Nov.-2008, from DELFT Tech-Univ. HOLLAND( City of Master-Painter Vermeer." :geek:

Yep, my hubby always asks me if all my time spent on here ( doing housework)

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i've seen you type a few three syllable words. these are no harder. just sound them out.

hey you are right! i need a lot of practice though. i still cant say it loud.

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INTRODUCING:[/size][/color]

" BlueHue"s :geek: dissident Atlantis Theory:

Main fault of mainstream Atlantologists is that they are Hobby-Historians with Math's/ Beta degrees

so that they fall in every" Ancient History Tourist trap" !

PLATO's Atlantis is a SATYRE on Athen's HYBRIS in the WAR on Syracuse

Plato did use an older Myth on the same basis of the War between ATLANTIS and ATHENS

but these were in the older Myth in South-ARABY

ATLANTIS is a correct LATIN translation from " Greek ATHETA-Land or" Ad-Land-of-Ad "

The lame argument that all contemporary writer/historians also used the Geo-name Atlantis

cutsa no wood, because these were translated into LATIN aswell

So ,99% of the mainstream Atlantologists use the wrong name The Atlantic should be the Ocean -of- Ad" instead

This cutts of ALL theories of Atlantis i n America or Europe just because

the original Atlanteans were colonizers of ancient Europe thus Europe can never have been" Atlantis "( nor America !)

America is( not ) New-Atlantis

The whole America as Atlantis Scherade is the result of a DECREE by King Ferdinat-1 of SPAIN in 1500

THAT SPAIN/ HESPERIS WERE THE ORIGINAL ATLANTIS, a political statement to twart the 1498 TORDESILLIAS partition agreement.

in calling SPAIN the original Atlantis King Ferdinant-1 thought to awe the rest of Europe to recognize Spain's herital right

on the " New" Atlantis which some calledAmerica.

PLATO's Atlantis TEXTUS RECEPTUS was word-corrupted

was corrupted by later translators who made falsh latin translations from the original Greek:

Forinstance the ISLE(= NESO-)Atlantis was actually a SEA- COAST region called:" PELAGOUS- Atlantikoum "

It was NOT larger or bigger than 2 Continents but than the Coasts of Lybia and ASIA and

Atlantis PROMONTORY, was situated MID-IN- BETWEEN them !

The MID- EARTH SEAor WORLD- OCEAN,

was later corrupted into the OKEANOS -POTAMOS but in greek this was the PONTUS- SEA

The TRUE SEA or Middle/ Earth SEA(= Mediaterranean SEA.)was the RED- Sea or Sinus-Arabicus and

THAT OTHER SEA (=the Indian Ocean )was the " REAL" Sea !

the PONTUS or MARE- DANOS(= today GULF of ADEN.)was but a Port-bay with a narrow entrance

We whittled Atlantis down to less that HALF- SIZE:

The enormous exaggerated figuers and Timeline come from the confusion of witing X x X instead of X + X

As we know: XX=20 , X + X is also 20, but X x X is Hundred ! Even the egyptian KETHA discussed by Dr KUHNE ( Germany)was tyoo large.)

So to be sure all data in Cyphers on Plato's Atlantis SURVEY-measures are 80% too large thus 20 instead of 100 times One STADE

'GEORGEOS' DIAZ from Brazil thought so too but still adhers tothe DISPROVED notion of: " Atlantis-Tartessos/ Taragonis" in Spain,"

ATLANTIS CATACLYSM was not in 10.000 bc but in 1055 & 855 bc.

THUS the Demise of Atlantis occurred in 855 bc NOT in 1200 bc nor at the date of TROY's fall in 1193 bc( which actually was in 860 bc.

All Atlabntologist ignored that Atlantis had falled TWICE in 1055 and 855 bc

In 1055 bc THOT ordered the PELASGIAN KING ( Named eponymal-) Pelasgos to repair the dammage of the FIRST Tsunami that had hit Atlantis.

Atlantis was built in to slopes of a MUD - volcano CALDEIRA not unlike Port ADEN where the ruins now linger at 50 m depth

Alas only 200 years later another TSUNAMI or cataclysm hit Atlantis for good.

ATLANTIS as Jewish/ Persian PARADISE was DEMONIZED in 855 bc

The reason that we forgot that the GREEKS an JEWS alike were actually two brances of the original PELASGIANS

they were the HYKSOS ! Who came down with SARGON-1 originally as Landsettlers from the Hindu-Kush valley ogf KARAKORUM in-only- 1250 bc.)

( Prof. of Econ.of BREMEN- Univ. Gunnar HEINSOHN equated King SARGON(-2)

( Meaning " King of Elephant Country".)with Sanherib in a treatise called:" SARGON's MIRROR.>>1998 )

These invading proto-greeks or Hyksos who resided in THEOMA and HADRAMAUT with their Capital" Poseidonis" or SION in ADEN

brought the Elephants" of Atlantis" with them. and employed them as the ( Tsunami-)WATCHERS(= GRIGORI/ CHERUBIM.)

on the Walls of' SION"( = EL-ySION.)were the NEPHILLIM=RAFIDIM-Elephants resided.

These " PRAJA PATI or ELDER-PATRIARCHS " were Arabian White Elephants who were trained to Pre-WARN for the( Annual !) Tsunamies.

Atlantis was flooded by a tidal wave

Tsunamies are ( Stil ) Caused by the MOON when in CONJUNCTION with MARS

So, when in 855 bc the GOD-King Salmanasser-2 besieged PORT- ADEN- Crater

The assyrian Army was drowned by a MOON-caused Tsunami and The King wanted revence on someone.

Thus the White Holi Elephant

the " GOD of the( Arabian-)PUNT was made the Culprit as the official AVATAR of the MOON(= Pallas.)

The Pillars of Hercules/Chronos wereactually theWhite Holi-ELEPHANTS( hidi" LOKA- PALLAS ") in Atala(= Whiteland of ADEN.)

Paleontologists know that the Species of the White arabian Elephant( ELEPHAS - MAXIMUS - ASSYRUS.) became extinct around 800 bc

but, THEY AS TECHNOLOGY BUFFS NEVER THOUGHT TO LINK the white Elephant's extinction to the superstition of an assyrian GOD-King!

CONCLUSION:

Atlantis is actually Ad-Land

which in Koran SURAT- 89 - is described as: PORT - ADEN - Crater

It is indeed hard to believe that the Deserts of Rub- al Khali once were a LAKE- District *(= before the Quarternary LAKE( dam-) BURST ! )

The Ancients and PLATO, never were in any doubt

where Atlantis/ Ad-Land was because it was along the Known WORLD of ARABY.

Atlantis-City were the Capital of the " Known" WORLD and the WORLD- SEA

was surrounding the " Known" WORLD thus the RED- SEA that washed the Coasts of ARABY(= Oikumene !)

Atlantis was never an islebut a

(= Promontory)and NOT in the Atlantic neither ( but in the Mare-Erytraeum or Mer- Arabe/ indian Ocean.

Thus the PILLARS of HERACLES/ Chronios were originally at " Sea strait of " BAB el- Mandab "(= Gate of Tears and the ACHERON

was the SEA of TEARS or the PONTOON -SEA ( today the Gulf of Aden.)

GUlf of ADEN is also that ellusive PISON-River(=of'Paradise')called ACHA-AD or Escheria.)

that surrounded HAVILAH(= Hadramaut.)(

which became confused with the PHASIS or Indus-River.)

I knew that

allready but Forum Member QOAIS did not believe me, so she searched evidence to the contrary and

she stumbled upon a quote from Diodorus Sicculus or some other ancient writer telling that

The original Pillars were at Bab el- Mandab and only came to Gibraltar in 220 when General HASDRUBAL

Re-named SPAIN as the NEW- Atlantis( HEBERIA or IBERIA for HYPER- Boria.)when he Founded CADIZ & Cartagena( =Nova.)

SO, all atlantologists are hapily barking up the wrong Traditional Tree

meanwhile accusing me of beiing a dissident Atlantologist.

While they perfectly know that all Theories of Atlantis as a MID- ATLANTIC ISLE are null and void.

But to admid that means " Loosing Face "and anyway their false theories are works of litterary art in themselves!

So nobody cares if they are based on corrupted information !

Never the less

for abandoning Ancient meanstream tradition at Home I am regarded as a regular idiot

which compelled me to live likedan internet Recluse alas rest is not my destiny

For the NEW highbrow-neighbours frequently complained to the National Health Service

for getting me out of" Their" neighbourhood

BOOK BURNING, seems a favorite pasttime in DELFT/ Hiolland

I already lost thousands of stored Textbooks from my livingroom

at the end of this year they threatned to burn the remaining 2.000 on ancient history

My valued example Dr Velikovsky the geologist turned astro-Phycisist never had it so hard !

You know what the Proverb says" A Philosopher in his own country is seldomly honored "

Most comments I got from this narative was" TOO Complicated and similar ONE- LINERS

I doubt I will fare better here !.

The Clever-conniving Greek publisher " HELIO- TOPOS "

who organized the 2nd Atlantis Conference in ATHENS (and the past SCI- FI-TV- Program on Atlantis theories ,)

were not pleased with the finding of the REAL Atlantis he will be stuck with the other ( faulty-)Atlantis Theory Books !

In Nov.10 2008, also starts another cultural Conference in MALAYSIA( I forget where in Singapore perhaps)without any Atlantis Lecture.

The fact that in different countries Atlantis(= Ad-Land.) is written evenmore falsely as " ATLANTIA, ATLANTIDA or ATLANTIDE is a bad omen

Sincerely " BlueHue

" :geek: a dissident viewer on Atlanti's theory

dd 13 Nov.-2008, from DELFT Tech-Univ. HOLLAND( City of Master-Painter Vermeer." :geek:

wow.. so much to read..

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My user name GGG stands for the "Grand Global Genome" hypothesis which I've created due to research on my surname Burian. I believe I can show this name as originating from the Siberian "Buryan" tribe at ~15-20,000 BC. I've studied this since ~1973 based on what my family and relatives could ascertain concerning family name origins. Two spellings surfaced as proto-Burian's, i.e. Buryan, and Burjan, the latter being Arabic of the other. My y-DNA (male) test claims I'm R1a1 haplogroup, and I carry the M45 Siberian-Central Asian marker, and also higher concentrations as India (Hindi), E. Iran, and Bohemian-European. I'm now Czech-Slavic-(Austrian-Bohemian (Prague-Praha, from after ~1882-American. Thus, this blind DNA test had me pegged as Bohemian which "is" correct.

I believe this tribal name is also the name and a proto-Hyperborean tribe, where one can reduce this to Boreans.

A quick timeline: Buryan tribe name would start in Siberia (Lake Baikal) and today is called Buryatia. Note the horizontal crescent moon on their flag, and also Azerbaijan's flag, where Azer (As people) and Baijan (Burjan) people.

Buryans would be shaman Tangrenist (where Earth god lives at the tops of mountains, and caves are sacred chapels, i.e. pyramids.

To date Siberian Buryans, they would also be Paleo-Indians who came to America ~15-20,000 BC, and thereafter. Thus, American Indians are my distant cousins, allowing for the fact I'm also Bohemian, post Columbus, none-the-less. This is the root for the "GGG hypothesis", and is very name specific.

Buryans were called the "wolf people", and also Buryan means "loosely" Sky-God, and in later periods also as the "wolf's Soul". National Geographic and the History channels both did specials on domesticated dogs, and make the claim that nearly all domesticated dogs originate from Siberian wolves, and that dogs all show this DNA connection as their predecessor. Thus, Buryan's likely domesticated the Siberian wolf, and were called the "Wolf People". Because American Indians brought this dog with them, I can extrapolate this date. In Beringa (Bering Sea land bridge), archaeologist find dog remains and date to ~12,000 BC. Also dogs of Kurdistan (Halafians) date to about 11,000 BC. Thus, Buryans migrated in two directions (east and west) from S. Siberia, and would be where this name was first used. The same can be said for the horse too, but at later dates, and more Central-Asia, and/or Pamir Knot regions of the NW Himalaya's. Also, African artifacts have been found at Malta and Buret (by Lake Baikal) and carbon date to 22-25,000 BC. Thus, there is a direct African DNA connection to this region just before, or coincidental to when this name appears, suggesting other proto-Buryan migrations wouldn't be needed to make this date, and origins claim cohesive using DNA analysis. This becomes "very clean" from this perspective, if using current DNA migration theories.

Buryans would be "blue wolf" as is Burte Chino (blue wolf) in Mongolian mythology. They are Baskhorts (Bashkirs and also as Burzyan, Burzhan) where Bashkort can mean "Blue Wolf" and/or "Head of the Wolf". The Buryan (Burjan) is al-Burjan lands in Iranian mythology and today called Georgia, but wherein in Romania, you find Colchus people who originate from Georgia. The term Iberia I believe is I-Berians, where you find Iberia=Iberu=Hebrew=Ebur River, Spain where you find Buriana Beach today on it's delta-sea end delta.

In Greek terms, they are Zeus,Apollo, and most interesting, Hephaestus (ref: Ptah-Egypt, and Thor-Germany) and that all three exhibit a hammer. They are miners, blacksmiths, and forgers of metals. Burjans and Hephaestus can both be traced to Lemnos Island in the Aegean and I estimate a date here at 10-1500 BC. Burjans were here with the Amazons, but data suggest they preferred Thracian woman. Thracians at one time ruled this island as well. I have every reason to believe that it was Burjans who wrote Jason and the Argonauts because they come from Colchus anyway, and knew these things that the Greeks didn't.

In Romania, Buryan (Burjan) is actually the Buri tribe (I think), and thus is also the 1st Nordic god Buri, and his sons Wodan (Odin, Oden), and in particular Bor (Borri). In Turkish, Bori can mean "Nobel Female b****", not cursing but likely to be understood as Asena, the "she-wolf" goddess to Gok-Turks (proto-Turks to mean Blue Turks, and affiliates as Blue Bulgars, also called Hons). Note that the Asena Goddess also exhibits a "blue mane". Also note that the Romulus and Remus saga matches the Asena Saga real well. Buryans founded Rome in my opinion at 753 BC, and are likely, also Etruscans.

To understand a true history of the Buri tribe, whose name is claimed to be from the Nordic god Buri, and located on Ptolomy's maps as Lugi-Buri about where Berlin sits, watch the movie "Gladiator". The battle is recorded in Roman anals, and occurs at ~170 AD at the upper Vistula River region of Poland today. Not the "Wolf's Soul" interpretation in this movie. I believe they have this correct.

I believe Buryans are Burzyans (Gok-Turks and relative to American Atsina Indian tribe (200BC-400AD migrations fleeing the Huns from Central Asia), Iberians, Colchus, Dacian (from the word Daci=Daos-wolf)and leads to Denmark.

There is a Buri province in Romania, Burridava village, and Burzenland. I believe Burgunland may be the same, and also Beierjnland (Netherlands) to be possiblly the same people as well.

The Buriano Bridge (Tuscany, Italy) is believed to be the one in the Mona Lisa painting. This name in Tuscany is actually a Lombardic migration at ~800 AD into Colonna de Buriano, and their capital at Milan. They are Angelic-Saxon of origins though, not exactly Italians, but of similar albeit more ancient stock.

I believe that it may actually be the Burians who wrote many mythological stories and other sources have suggested this. I have no reason yet to dispute this notion, and find this name is global. I believe that Burians (Buri-ans) may be reponsible for building the Romanian wooden type henge at Sarmisegetuza.

So who were the Hyperboreans? I'm certain they are Buryans, Burjans, and/or Burians, which happens to be my surname, too. They would be R1a1 haplogroup for DNA buffs, and cover a large NE-NW European domains, and also "virtually all" Arctic domains. They are also American Indians, and originate in S. Siberia during Paleolithic times. They are Tangrenist shamans, sacrifice children, and have all of the "Barbaric" virtues. Indeed the word "Barbaric" could be derived from their name, and they possess the "correct credentials" to fit your theories quite well.

If you simply make Boreans=Buryans=Burjans (misspelled Arabic as Burdjan), than this starts to make sense, and pan out.

There is much to be done yet with my hypothesis. I think you'll find my data suggestions ring true. I have a lot more yet, and, I am seeking publishers for my research, which is ongoing. If interest exist for this topic, feel free to contact me for more exchanges of data.

I hope this opens up new avenues for your readers and staff. The Burian name is global. PS, Suggest we team up, and publish this as a group analysis because this name is too global for any one person to really effectively manage. You need to be a historical "superman" to sort out all these pieces of historical snippets.

Your analysis of Hyperboreans fits mine quite well. I'm in need of cross verified historical data, and to cover as many diciplines as possible. Your reports herein seem to fit within this scope, and comments are welcome to this end. Thanks for the blog page. I have yet to read more of your topics on your web site.

Also, your pillar concept fits mine, where Stonehenge pillars are Apollo worshippers in Cornwall (Burrinton), England. They are also relative to Bury coins which exhibit wolf and crescent moon symbols (Ref Norfolk England and older wooden type henges 2-4000 BC here). Bury may be Buryan, or Buri=Bury. Anyway, a few more pillars to consider, and a new location for you all. Is the Romanian wooden henge related? Let me know what you think? More later. GGG guy, a freelance historian.

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Hi GGG, nice to make your acquaintance on here. :yes:

I'm not sure who your post is directed at in the thread but I started it a few years back, so I'll reply to your very interesting post and thanks for adding it here. I must say it's been a while since this thread has been out and it was only short and much more am I aware of now. I'm still following leads and looking for the elusive Atlantis, it's mostly what I follow and have for years now. I'm hardly any sort of research scientist in any field or academic circles if your post was directed at me, that's why I ask.

Anyways, here at UM it's a discussion group for many of us to try and understand some ancient historic events better and maybe someone else could also add something to this. I'll certainly get back to you after I read your post again and understand more what you're saying, feel free to give some more explanations for anything.

GGG you said this:

My user name GGG stands for the "Grand Global Genome" hypothesis which I've created due to research on my surname Burian. I believe I can show this name as originating from the Siberian "Buryan" tribe at ~15-20,000 BC. I've studied this since ~1973 based on what my family and relatives could ascertain concerning family name origins. Two spellings surfaced as proto-Burian's, i.e. Buryan, and Burjan, the latter being Arabic of the other. My y-DNA (male) test claims I'm R1a1 haplogroup, and I carry the M45 Siberian-Central Asian marker, and also higher concentrations as India (Hindi), E. Iran, and Bohemian-European. I'm now Czech-Slavic-(Austrian-Bohemian (Prague-Praha, from after ~1882-American. Thus, this blind DNA test had me pegged as Bohemian which "is" correct.

I believe this tribal name is also the name and a proto-Hyperborean tribe, where one can reduce this to Boreans.

Have you ever read the Oera Linda Book (Bok)?

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Maybe they raised Romulus?

I see your part:

In Romania, Buryan (Burjan) is actually the Buri tribe (I think), and thus is also the 1st Nordic god Buri, and his sons Wodan (Odin, Oden), and in particular Bor (Borri). In Turkish, Bori can mean "Nobel Female b****", not cursing but likely to be understood as Asena, the "she-wolf" goddess to Gok-Turks (proto-Turks to mean Blue Turks, and affiliates as Blue Bulgars, also called Hons). Note that the Asena Goddess also exhibits a "blue mane". Also note that the Romulus and Remus saga matches the Asena Saga real well. Buryans founded Rome in my opinion at 753 BC, and are likely, also Etruscans.

and an early part placing them at the mouth of the Vistula in Poland. Have you see my posts on Poland, I can trace nearly everything there. A line possibly from Opscii, in Hesperia, (Italy) to Poland, I can only find the same word variation, check Wiki for the name variations, in Polish, a place name, so I don't know how valid that is, but I was trying to establish a line, possibly early amber trade, from the mouth of Vistula into Italy, with the Etruscans being a possible product of this.

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Welcome GGG, I really like your theories. There are a few I didn't see you mention such as Berbers, Bretons (I-berians really). You have pieced an impressive amount together though and it does seem to work. I agree with the idea of Apollo worshipers in Hyperborea. Apollo is the deity most connected to wolves. I'll probably have to reread your post because there was so much info in there. Most intriguing.

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