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Monkyburd

Micheal Moore

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Posted (edited)

I want to know what people's opinions here are of Micheal Moore, the film director/mudraker who suprises big business unannounced and confronts problems from a librel standpoint. Some of his documentaries include The Big One, The Aweful Truth, and, Bowling for Columbine and he has out a new book bashing bush called Dude, Where's my Country.

Personally I think he makes some good points, but tends to get carried away sometimes (Especially in his hatred for Bush.) One Point in particular is that Bush and the Bin Laden family have been business partners in oil industry for some time and on the day of Sept. 11th the Bin Laden family was visiting the U.S. When the Trade Centers went down Bush then had them flown by a private Suadi jet out of the country. huh.gif Supposedly it was for their saftey.

Also Ironic is the point that during the invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviets America actually supplied Saddam Hussien with weapons of mass destruction. huh.gif

Edited by Monkyburd

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he also fails to take into account that the Bin Laden family owns one of the biggest building contractors in the world and that Old Bin Laden (the father, dunno his name) had something like 50 kids, what Moore is doing is somehow implicating a family with an interest in the US and its economy with a son who happened to have become an extremist islamic terrorist. The Bin Laden family are in no way funding Osama, he recieved his inheritance when the old fellow died and used it for what he wanted. So in layman terms, what Moore is doing is saying that, because a member of your family is a murderer you are a murderer or in someway involved in the murderous actions of the individual, good one moore.

When the Trade Centers went down Bush then had them flown by a private Suadi jet out of the country.  Supposedly it was for their saftey.

tell me, your son just killed 3000 american civilians, people aren't about to start giving you hugs and kisses. I fail to see the problem with the argument that they were flown out for their safety.

Also Ironic is the point that during the invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviets America actually supplied Saddam Hussien with weapons of mass destruction.

they were different times, we have to remember that during the Iran war, the entire West supported Saddam, not just America.

Put simply, Moore is nothin but a spin doctor lying and cheating his way to his points.

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Ahem, after 9/11 how long was it until we had discovered the terrorist organization behind the problem was Al Queda? Maybe, a week and a half? Maybe longer? According to Dick Clark and his brand new book spanking Bush and Clinton for not keeping their eyes peeled they knew that a threat of this magnitude had been on the table for some time.

Bush had been a client with the Bin Ladens since before he was chilling in the White House, he invited memebers of their family to his ranch, he was the best buds to them. Surely he must have heard something about a certain violently religious osama. Dealing with the bin ladens was shakey ground in the first place.

And if the entire west supported Saddam does it make him any less of an oppressive jerk to his people? I guess when one person says something its a lie, rather then the truths of a chanting mob. thumbsup.gif A perfect example, again Dick Clark's book comes out and what happens? The government sends out a horde of heresayers to counter his claims and restore the public's faith in our government. Ahh how lovely, liars working together towards a common goal.

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Ahem, after 9/11 how long was it until we had discovered the terrorist organization behind the problem was Al Queda? Maybe, a week and a half? Maybe longer? According to Dick Clark and his brand new book spanking Bush and Clinton for not keeping their eyes peeled they knew that a threat of this magnitude had been on the table for some time.

whats your point?

Bush had been a client with the Bin Ladens since before he was chilling in the White House, he invited memebers of their family to his ranch, he was the best buds to them. Surely he must have heard something about a certain violently religious osama. Dealing with the bin ladens was shakey ground in the first place.

again this is irrelevant, the Bin Ladens have nothing to do with Osama, again i will draw your attention to the analogy of a relative being a murderer.

And if the entire west supported Saddam does it make him any less of an oppressive jerk to his people? I guess when one person says something its a lie, rather then the truths of a chanting mob

no, i making the point that

a) what was done was acceptable at the time

cool.gif Michael Moore is using the ironic saddam example to attack america, when the fact of the matter is that there were plenty of other countries involved. Yes its ironic, however we can't just blame america.

A perfect example, again Dick Clark's book comes out and what happens? The government sends out a horde of heresayers to counter his claims and restore the public's faith in our government. Ahh how lovely, liars working together towards a common goal.

heh, because god knows Dick Clark isn't making a stack of money out of the book, he has plenty to gain and nothing to lose.

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Bathory thumbsup.gifthumbsup.gifthumbsup.gif

I take Moore in the Same light that I take Clark and just about anyone else who is a Washington outsider. I look at their points and then do my own research.

But you made a well stated argument.

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QUOTE 

Ahem, after 9/11 how long was it until we had discovered the terrorist organization behind the problem was Al Queda? Maybe, a week and a half? Maybe longer? According to Dick Clark and his brand new book spanking Bush and Clinton for not keeping their eyes peeled they knew that a threat of this magnitude had been on the table for some time.

whats your point?

i was thinking the same thing as Monkyburd. What doesn't make sense to me is, it took them a week or so to find out Al Queda (Bin Laden) was behind the attack but they flew Bin Ladens' family out of the country straight away - as soon as the attacks happened. I think that's a conspiricy in itself...

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Posted (edited)

it didn't take them weeks to announce it was Al Queda....

it was a day or so at best, and even then, one would assume they had a suspicion as to who it was so in that case they would take the precaution of getting the Ladens out of the country before anyone could get to them. We have to remember that generally speaking, the public are the last ones to know about that sort of stuff.

That said, can anyone get an official timeline of this? eg when the attacks occured, when the bin ladens were escorted out, when the announcement came?

Edited by bathory

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I don't have an official timeline, but I distinctly remember watching the towers collapse, then three days later going to OCS knowing that Bin Laden was responsible, so it wasn't as long as a week.

I can only wonder how many people we have an uncomfortable, but working relationship with now, that we might regret ten years in the future.

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Posted (edited)

huh.gif Uhh, yeah... I'm gonna get back to Micheal Moore here for a second, if you don't bite my flippin head off....

On of his chapters pertains to conservatives and how they work. See, conservatives believe in tradition, and order, and usually a strong hold to religion. Usually they are very passionate about these ideas and Mikey tells in his book (Ha! grin2.gif My conservative christian friends refuse to even acknowledge the book as evidence of anything; they're so damn stubborn!) of an experience when he was confronted (while walking in the park) by a conservative so angry at him it turned his walk into an episode of crossfire. Conservatives seem so darn sure of themselves all the time. Why is this? Are they right? No..

Mikey believes that at the core of conservatives lies a patch of deep black FEAR crying.gif . Fear of what they don't understand, an unknowing of what it's like to be black and hopelessly poor, or the wishing to kiss someone of their own gender. Basically, ignorance (You think the government and the media would tell you the white-knuckle truth? Give them some credit! rolleyes.gif) and arrogance that manifests into hatred, whether through discrimination, close-mindedness, and eventual disgust for others. He believes its a very painful and mind altering disease.

But hey, there's no cure for it, they're all too far gone to be changed. whistling2.gif

Edited by Monkyburd

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so what? so i guess moore's books/film are also evidence of the lies and deciet the left will happily shove down the average persons throat in order to try and prove a point?

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Oh come on, lighten up. Why do you have to always consider what liberals say are lies? Is it a lie that gay and lesbian people are about to be openly discriminated against in the constitution? Is it a lie that hundreds of people get canned because a bigass company wants to up their profits a quarter of a point? Is it a lie that you're afraid of change because you may not understand it?

Open your eyes, this is a democracy and we should respect and uphold the rights of anyone to be anything they want freely. I don't think Moore is lying to the public as much as the government is, but people tend to believe the majority. rolleyes.gif

As for shoving things down people's throats... whistling2.gif

"He has weapons of mass destruction-the world's deadliest weapons-which pose a direct threat to the United States, our citizens and our friends and allies."

Who said that about a year ago? whistling2.gif

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did i say the right didn't lie, its irrelevant for this arguement anyways, Moore is just on the other end of the spectrum.

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so what? so i guess moore's books/film are also evidence of the lies and deciet the left will happily shove down the average persons throat in order to try and prove a point?

I'm going to side with Monkyburd on this one, but with a stipulation that it happens on both sides of the aisle. Moore is on the far side of the left.

But what I find interesting is that when there is a republican president, it's called the liberal media, when it's a democrat, it's called a conservative media.

After Bush took office a question came up as to what guys like Rush and Savage would shoot their mouths off about now that they got their wish of a republican Prez and congress. Then 9/11 happened and after the dust settled, it was right back to in-fighting.

One interesting point I thought about was if these are lies and fabrications why doesn't the 'injured party' sue. It's a civil offense to write or publish falsehoods about someone if it causes injury to their character. Just a thought.

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Open your eyes, this is a democracy and we should respect and uphold the rights of anyone to be anything they want freely.

This is NOT a democracy MB. This is a Representative Republic. Moore is just like every other liberal in this country....desperate! The majority of this great nation are conservatives. Even those 'little people' who think they are liberals hold more conservative opinions than they would even like to believe. Moore and Clark and Hillary can go jump in a lake........a lake of fire devil.gif

The truty is Moore and Clark and the rest of the democrats are spewing HATE plain and simple. They hate Bush because he stands for something. They hate bush...period. They have no ideas on how to make anything better...all they can do is hope that if they trash Bush enough...a dumbed down populace will lock-step in place and vote him out. They are desperate....desperate to gain any kind of power back. They have lost everything. The house...the senate... the white house...and yet they still Pray to Bill Clinton. And this is the dude responsible for their devastating losses. Go figure.

Well, anyway, I did go figure....and what I figured out is that Kerry and Gore and much of the Liberal elite in this country are the leftovers from the USSR communists hardcores. Clinton isn't a Communist, he is a left-wing socialist who has plans for his own take over of America via Hillary.

Enough of all this idiocy.........

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Posted (edited)

This is a Representative Republic.

I don't want to disagree with you, but IMO it is neither. Our elected officials rarely represent us. If they did, there would be less special interest money in campaigns and pacs and more ordinary people talking to our government.

Having read the last 380 bills submitted to the hill for vote, 99.9 percent contain special riders that were of benifit to one group or class of people over another.

What I always find funny is the line that is in damn near every bill " And Other purposes" These riders are what very few Americans hear about in the liberal press.

BTW Glad to see ya back. Missed your wit and wisdom. thumbsup.gif

Edited by stillcrazy

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Michael Moore is slovenly and ugly.

He's also ingenius and has balls of steel.

He's everything a documentarian should be. Or George Lucas.

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Azael? I don't know whether to laugh or cry at your comment laugh.gifcrying.gif

disgust.gif Ha, I don't know about Moore supporting Bill Clinton in any way at all. He has made numerous jabs at Bill in the past and has recently in his books and documentaries. He doesn't support Bush or Bill.

Ahem, I will admit under our Bushman here we have shown the world we are a superpower, that the United Staes is still #1 in the world grin2.gifhuh.gif Oh wait, what about medicare and hmos and equal rights and the environment and big business? Wow, I guess we're just number 1 in the "Going to War" category and thats all that needs to be adressed. Eh, who needs any of that other crap anyway? whistling2.gif

As for "Having no ideas to make anything better," How about we look at this for a sec, okay?...

Brief Article, Page and a half..

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i love it how Moore supported Wesley Clark whilst at the same time slamming the Iraq war:)

oh the hypocrisy

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I have a hard time taking anything seriously from a guy who always looks like he's just rolled out from behind a dumpster. original.gif

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Posted (edited)

That's what's great about Moore, he does look like he's just rolled out from behind a dumpster. He doesn't look like some preppy senator or a prim and proper aristocrat. He's breaking a stereotype, it's like seeing hello kitty whip out a gun and start killing people. cool.gif

Besides, at the core Moore is a comedian, he just uses politics as the punch line.

Edited by Monkyburd

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and to push his own political agendas:)

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I have a hard time taking anything seriously from a guy who always looks like he's just rolled out from behind a dumpster. original.gif

LOL, that's about the truest statement I've heard in a long time. thumbsup.gif

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Posted (edited)

i just have to say you can trust Moore more then you can trust the US government

Edited by Ash

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Moore has never been much more than a proponent of his own political views. while they are neither completely true, they are not completely false either, and he does bring up some good points in "Columbine"

My biggest complaint about Moore is that he likes to characterize all poor people as being the victims of some sort of capitalistic conspiracy. (see "Roger and Me")

In this movie he decries GM leaving Flint Michigan for Mexico, and leaving behind a whole lot of jobless people.

While located in Flint, GM paid it's unskilled laborers far more than market rate for unskilled labor. (it was either $30K a year or $30/hr. I can't remember which) Basically, this allowed the citizens of Flint to get a very high paying job without learning any real marketable skill. When GM left, there wee no businesses who were willing to hire unskilled laborers at the inflated rate and they were screwed. They were lucky to get a job flipping burgers.

In short, if GM was guilty of anything, it was letting these unskilled workers think that there services were worth the amount of money GM paid them. Had the rate been closer to market rate, it is more likely that some of them at least would have gone to college or at least learned some sort of marketable skill.

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Just for the record, it didn't take a week and a half or a couple of days to point the finger at Al-Qaeda. I remember hearing it on the radio that same day that it was Osama Bin Laden behind the whole thing. It's not like no one knew Osama was out there before this. Remember the Cole? The American Embassies in Africa? That was Al-Qaeda too.

Also, Michael Moore brings up good points, but he does come off as kinda whiny and irrational sometimes.

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