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nakajima the dreamer

Tulpa

39 posts in this topic

Tulpa

I know you guys had heard about this already. I made some research about this beacuse this is quite interesting. i will not post any links about that here and please search it yourself because i'm so sleepy ( i might post links later).

Pls search and read:

How to create a ghost : Philip

Tulpa- thoughtform

I would like to ask everyone if they have some experience(s) about this. Since there are doubts about these things i would really like to make a project about this w/ your help. So pls inform me if you would like to participate :D.

Ideas are welcomed xD.

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Perhaps one of the better western depictions of the creation and purpose of a tulpa would be the movie "Fight Club"

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I don't think Tyler durden would count as a tulpa because he is not in reality physically distinct from Ed norton, merely an alter ego, to any observers they appear as one and the same. A Tulpa is supposedly an actual flesh and blood person created by the power of somebody's will alone, in theory a tulpa could kill it's creator without harming itself and then create its own tulpa, however you should bear in mind that there is no such thing as tulpas.

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I don't think Tyler durden would count as a tulpa because he is not in reality physically distinct from Ed norton, merely an alter ego, to any observers they appear as one and the same. A Tulpa is supposedly an actual flesh and blood person created by the power of somebody's will alone, in theory a tulpa could kill it's creator without harming itself and then create its own tulpa, however you should bear in mind that there is no such thing as tulpas.

This is true. Perhaps I should say that, had Tyler Durden been perceived by others, in the way the the audience perceived him (as a separate individual), he would be an accurate representation of a tulpa. Up to and including the general theory of dispersing a tulpa by acknowledging and accepting your "dark side" and re-absorbing it.

And yes, I am somewhat skeptical about the actual existence of actual tulpas. If they have any sort of reality to them, I would consider it more along the lines of Tyler Durden than anything else, meaning psychological, rather than spiritual, in nature (granted, there might be some overlap between the two).

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I'm absolutely sure 'tyler durdens' exist but I'm pretty skeptical of reports involving tulpas with a physical presence.

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Uhmm.. So does this mean that the research conducted by these people here : http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa102201a.htm are fake/hoax?

The sessions took off from there, producing a range of phenomena that could not be explained scientifically. Through the table-rapping communication, the group was able to learn finer details about Philip's life. He even seemed to exhibit a personality, conveying his likes and dislikes, and his strong views on various subjects, made plain by the enthusiasm or hesitancy of his knockings. His "spirit" was also able to move the table, sliding it from side to side despite the fact that the floor was covered with thick carpeting. At times it would even "dance" on one leg.

Philip is an example of tulpa right? He's a fictitious character created by the participants and later then respond to the group's calling/questions. So if this is real, is it possible that to create a more physical form of Philip and other manifestations(the concept of tulpa?)?

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Tulpa

I know you guys had heard about this already. I made some research about this beacuse this is quite interesting. i will not post any links about that here and please search it yourself because i'm so sleepy ( i might post links later).

Pls search and read:

How to create a ghost : Philip

Tulpa- thoughtform

I would like to ask everyone if they have some experience(s) about this. Since there are doubts about these things i would really like to make a project about this w/ your help. So pls inform me if you would like to participate :D.

Ideas are welcomed xD.

Have you also heard that this phenomena is associated highly with schizophrenia? Schizophrenia isn't the same as Split Personality Disorder you know. Schizophrenia means "Split Mind".

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Posted (edited)

Welcome aborad, nakajima.

Philip was conceived by the instructor-experimenter as a fiction. The student-subjects were convinced of Philip's existence because they were given his biography by somebody whom they thought was a scholar - that is, someone who could be relied upon to have carefully researched any fact claim he might make, and then to tell them the truth about it.

What happened from there is interesting from a social psychology, and "small group dynamics," standpoint. I agree with you that the experiment may shed light on reports of tulpas, and on some of the mechanisms involved. However, there is no reason to think that the group "created" Philip except in their own minds, as a shared belief of the group.

Nobody, including the experimenter, thought of "creating" Philip. The students thought he already existed, and the experimenter knew that he was the main character in an unpublished short story.

The whole incident is confirmation bias run amok. The "experiments within the experiment," that is, what the class did to gather evidence about Philip, are one long practical demonstration of how not to design an experiment. The claim you quoted

The sessions took off from there, producing a range of phenomena that could not be explained scientifically.

is laughable. All the "phenomena" were fully explained in the 19th and early 20th Centuries. People can move tables. The thickness of the carpet has nothing to do with it, apart from ensuring that their feet are cushy comfortable while they are lifting the table and telling one another that they are not lifting it.

If the students were conversant with their own field, as their instructor must have been, then they would know that their "tests" were no tests at all, just re-enactments of staple "medium's tricks."

The root Western tulpa report is still Alexandra David-Neel's. She had heard the Tibetan stories and decided to try to make a tulpa herself. She knowingly created a hallucination, which then convinced herself of its autonomy from her. She also reports a few cases where other people seemed to her to be asking about her creation. She infers that they, too, saw her creation.

That is very thin evidence for anything except the uncontroversial: that a person can consciously create a hallucination. Like any other learned performance, summoning the hallucination can become "automatized." Once automatic, it is routine for the performer to become dissociated from the performance. Everybody who drives a car knows that.

It is also very easy for one person to convince someone else that a fictitious person exists. Pull out your cellphone, as if it had "rung," and start talking into it. Everyone around you will swear that you are talking to someone who called you.

If you do a few more things over a span of time (and David-Neel was traveling around Tibet and camping out with her "witnesses"), then after a short while, your companions will "know" quite a bit about your fictitious person.

Add to this that if for any reason at all you thought you were not simply faking that first cellphone episode (you had heard a story that by talking into a cellphone, you might create a tulpa, for instance), then you have a "positive feedback loop" for a doozie of a delusion to take hold.

Finally, if the only report of the whole tale is your own, freely mixing your interpretation of your companions' reactions with observed facts, then it should be obvious how reliable that is.

The issue is not fake and hoax. The issue is what somebody can talk herself into, especially in the context of an isolated small group disposed to support the chosen belief.

Without realizing it, David-Neel was replicating an experiment that has long been in the literature. Gather, say, twelve people around you. Isolate them socially, for example, by convincing them to go on the road with you for months or a few years. Do some tricks along the way.

If you are at all good at it, and have chosen the right people, then they will come to believe that you are special, in whatever way you care to be thought special. Their belief might even "feedback" and reinforce your own ideas about your specialness.

Having come "to believe your own press releases," you just might die for that belief. Even after you're gone, your companions might well die for that belief, too. Before they die, they might recruit others into the belief.

There's simply no telling how many people might come to hold the belief, nor how long after the last eyewitness has died the belief might still be alive and kicking.

Small groups with time on their hands can do amazing things.

Edited by eight bits

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Posted (edited)

@eight bits - thank you! xD

Oh, so the members thought he was real? Sorry, i don't know that xD. I tend to not accept all of the infos when the reading material is so big or so many xD. So actually i did not much understand your statements xD. So please summarize it, sorry! But I do understand some of your statements :D. So the tulpa is still questionable?

@insight - Please elaborate your message. And as much as possible, make it direct to the point, for I may have misunderstood some of your statements. what I understood is that you're telling me that David-Neel is suffering from schizophrenia or somewhat like that?

Edited by nakajima the dreamer

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Eight Bits, that was fascinating. :tu:

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You may be interested

http://www.pararesearchers.org/Ghosts/Arti...ticle_five.html

And my apologies. In the original Philip exercise, the members of that group knew from the outset that the character was fictitious, and even collectively wrote the group's "biography of Philip." I was thinking of one of the subsequent replications when I posted. In that case, the student-teacher relationship was a factor, and the students were simply handed a biography written by the teacher without telling the students that it was fiction.

Since apparently it works either way, we may as well just go with the original.

So please summarize it,

My posts may be long, but they are easy. Just look at the last paragraph :)

Small groups with time on their hands can do amazing things.

As to the tulpa specifically, yes, I think people can conjure up hallucinations, and yes, I think that people can get other people to see them. There aren't too many Western tulpa reports to work with, and I don't know of any where the tulpa does something physical (defined as something that leaves evidence to be seen by someone who didn't see the tulpa, and not easily done except by the tulpa).

Hope that helps.

Edited by eight bits

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:tu: Wow! Thanks 8bits. I now get what you're saying xD. But do you think it is possible to make it more physical? And have apparitions of its own and NOT making others believe that they are there(or here xD) and them not knowing any connection of the tulpa to it's creator.

There aren't too many Western tulpa reports to work with

So, would you mind creating one? xD I mean make an experiment yourself. I am trying to create one, and I ask my friends to do the same thing too. Each of us will create our own tulpa(assuming it's real) and then i'll ask their progress and then try to observe/analyze things. I do hope we will have a good progression w/in 2-3 months xD. I'm also asking you guys to do the same. Instead of judging either if TULPA is real or not, why not let's make experiments ourselves.

I'll post the things concerned about the "experiment" if there are anyone here who would like to participate? It may not be real, but after a 1 and a half year experiment, we sure have something to call an assurance. The experiment/project will then be called PROJECT TULPA: Real or Not

xD. This will be fun, so guys, please participate. xD Well, you might look stupid doing this, but I assure you, you're not the only one xD.

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So, would you mind creating one?

Maybe I should hear how you make one before I answer :).

Here's another thread that may interest you:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...howtopic=139077

Oriana, the OP in that thread, got trolled, but she remains active here. You may wish to send her a personal message, and see whether she is interested in joining your project.

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So isn't this the same idea as god?

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^^ Could certainly be argued. 'Thought forms' and 'shedded off' energies that can build up in a building and take on an independent presence could be accountable for some types of hauntings. They are something I personally acknowledge or always see possible as happening under the right conditions.

There is also some interesting thoughts in connection with this, to say using the Ouija board, where you are talking about a formation of something projected via the collective energies and intent of a group subconsciously.

Edited by Lady_Anvilabeel

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^^ Could certainly be argued. 'Thought forms' and 'shedded off' energies that can build up in a building and take on an independent presence could be accountable for some types of hauntings. They are something I personally acknowledge or always see possible as happening under the right conditions.

There is also some interesting thoughts in connection with this, to say using the Ouija board, where you are talking about a formation of something projected via the collective energies and intent of a group subconsciously.

what would you imagine those conditions to be?

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Maybe I should hear how you make one before I answer

Uh, I visualize what I want my tulpa would look like, I gave it a name, and i just meditate on it, i mean i focus in visualizing it. xD I dunno how to make this stuff really, and i also have a problem in constant visualization xD so i don't know if I can do this actually. My mind tends to think of others, i can't focus xD.

I already had read about that. But then, frankly, I won't consider her information as reliable, there were no stated dates and durations. She just said she created one, then it manifests on its own and then destroyed it. And now she claims she has a spirit guide named Eli : http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...5&start=165 . But i'll try to contact her xD.

So isn't this the same idea as god?

Uhmm, I don't know! But I would rather think this concept as making a baby xD. But since this is creation of a new "being", perhaps it is(by means of creation)? xD

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what would you imagine those conditions to be?

I can't determine these conditions in the sense that, if you have xyz activated then you will extract this exact result. I just personally acknowledge from my experiences and experiences of others, some sort of relation between ever changing and moving conditions such as environmental, climate, natural elements, EMF's and 'haunted' or where a lot of unexplained or spiked levels of activity is experienced.

Anyway, in relation to Tuplas or thought forms, for me that would be considering the relationship between certain conditions and the amping effect they may have on projected emotions or 'energy'. Using my terminology here, emotions = energy, the stronger the emotion, the stronger the energy and projection of it. I might think for example, that the constant projection of anger, depression, stress, anxiety building up with no escape becomes under the right conditions, a presence or thought form that is independent of the individual. It's possible a haunting or a 'manipulation' of that persons environment 'energy wise', develops as a result.

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Nakajima Thank you for your comments on Oriana's thread. I think she might have been more forthcoming had not some folks been on her like white on rice.

My own situation is that I am a daily meditator, and have been for years. I do "take requests." However, I am careful about courting hallucinations. For the past several weeks, I have been experimenting with a very modest visual hallucination, just to explore the phenomenon.

To be frank, it is a skill that I would rather not become too good at. Let me think about this some more.

Lady A, there is a historical ghost incident that I have long suspected might be a tulpa, if so, then launched unintentionally by an identifiable person, and then taken up by his surrounding community.

I have not posted about it, since I am still thinking about it. Whether tulpa or not, it is a sweet (emotionally sweet) story. If I did post it (and I probably will someday), then I would make a thread in "ghosts and hauntings" unless I was fully convinced that it was indeed a tulpa.

In the meantime, I value my "virginity." I have never made a paranormal claim here. I am not sure that this incident is "paranormal." It is a delicate matter :).

(Belated thanks to aquatus for the kind words)

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Creating a Tulpa took many many years and it didn't just happen. The concept began back in 1987 - ish and was like an imaginary friend situation. I created several others at the time and I was really just experimenting with some occult knowledge. What happened back then was I would create a character and take on the role of that character and invoke it within me - like invoking a spirit. I was terrible at P.E at school - I hated it and I was always last and I couldn't run very well and I couldn't keep up with anyone. Well I invented a character and took on that role, and experimented with invoking it. During P.E for once I wasn't last to finish... then I came 2nd in the High Jump event and there was a marked improvement. I was reasonably good at music but I wanted to be better and so I invented another character and invoked it during the music lesson and was able to improve drastically. I began to write plays and scripts for myself and friends to read, because it made the characters more real than simply imagining them. What I also had to do was this - after invoking I had to banish, put the character in their place so I didn't end up with MPD (multiple personality disorder). As the years went by only one of those characters stayed with me and seemed more real than the rest - and the reason it seemed more real was because it appeared during a Ouija board session I had with two friends and my sister. The glass flew off the table - to the other end of the room and smashed to smitherenes. Here's where it gets a bit complicated - did I or did I not create this character? That I am not sure of - if he was a daemon or if he was a living being at one time, but whatever it was, he was only present AFTER I did the ouija board session. At this stage he was a character or something more - just a little bit stronger but he didn't have a name like the others - I tried to call him a name but it didn't seem to fit. I didn't really have a name for him till 1999 when he told me it. I had a really strange experience then which you can read about in this thread if you wish:-

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...howtopic=143389

In some ways I think both experiences are related.

I would write plays, scripts and stories about him, draw him, and invoke him. This is more than just imagining, doing this kind of thing makes the character real in your mind because it seems to take on a life of its own. From then he became stronger and helped when I needed him, it was as if he knew a lot more than I did and I could ask him anything and get an answer. He'd help me with occult rituals and magick - in my mind this is what I needed him for in the first place. If I did create him it would be for this purpose because he was brilliant.

The past few years I told someone about him, and we began to roleplay on the internet - this role playing made him even stronger till he started to actually affect real life - I didn't invoke him then but me and this other lady - we evoked him, called him up much like you call up a spirit. When I played his part during the role play, he seemed to take on his own persona and I was just there to dictate. Things happened to my friend, like accidents and just bad luck whenever she argued with him or anything that went against what he wanted. Sometimes people would ask me who the man was I was with, and friends who were psychics often sensed him even when I hadn't said he was there. I didn't really know about Tulpas but I began to read about them and realised he was a prime candidate for a Tulpa and so I started to deliberately put a lot of energy into him, I mean to make him more real, I'd talk about him as if he was a real person, kind of how you distinguish a person by his or her identity. He seemed to be outside of me rather than just something I invoked. I used to use the MSN to talk to my friend and a few times the MSN was on by itself using the ID I'd set up for him - my computer wasn't on, and I wasn't even connected to the net one time when the MSN just came on. My friend attempted to speak to whoever was on the MSN and there was a reply "hi" but that was all. Nobody else knew my password for that ID.

My friend was annoyed that he/I had signed off without talking much. But I explained to her I wasn't even on....

I would speak to the Tulpa and sometimes write for him as if it was him talking to me, and he would tell me things like future events - the Asian Tsunami was one of them - the prediction I posted on the internet on a forum under his name turned out to be very very accurate.

We continued to feed the Tulpa for years and he got stronger whilst we got weaker, he took all our energy and both of us, we didn't have the energy to do anything, like housework or take care of our families and it got too much, it took a long time but I managed to eventually disconnect from the Tulpa, and persuaded my friend to, she didn't want to and neither did I - we loved him. I had to eventually try to kill him, and I did that the same way I did everything, by writing a playscript in which he died. Not once but lots of times. He's still not dead but he is no longer as strong as he was and I have my energy back, and I care about life again. When I see the sunrise its like its all new, and I can feel again. He is still there in the background, and a few weeks ago he came back full force and more real than ever but now things are different. I have disconnected from that energy sucking as has my friend and since those few weeks ago we haven't had any more experiences but I am not sure where he is now. I felt at first as if I'd drawn the energy back to myself but I'm not so sure now. I didn't succeed in killing him as I thought but he is out there somewhere doing something. I wonder if he will latch on to someone and start taking their energy too... but the question remains... did I create him? Was he a Tulpa or something that already existed that somehow took energy from the living? That will always remain a mystery to me.

I understand people will be skeptical about this - so let me tell you, I know what you'll say, I know what explanations you'll come up with, but please understand I don't want an explanation, I'm sharing this experience because I hope you'll enjoy reading it and formulate in your own minds as to whether or not it was true.

Edited by Oriana

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Oriana, thank you. I had hoped you would drop in.

A lot of your method reminds me of the original Philip group, the one who knew that Philip was made up, and who did much of the creating themselves, especially by creative writing and drawing.

And two people is a small group. In your case, though, you had the expectation that you could make something, based on your earlier characters.

Do you have any comment about similarities or differences in your method compared with the Philip team's?

Your interaction with the tulpa reminds me of Anne Rice's Lasher. Or, if you prefer science fiction, Beverly's experience in the epsiode Sub Rosa from the 7th season of Star Trek: The Next Generation. In those fictional cases, the tulpa counterpart was something which already existed apart from the people to whom they attached themselves, and both were "serial attachers."

Alexanrdra David-Neel did seem confident that she made her tulpa, and then later, that she did extinguish it. Her motives for doing so were more that the thing's autonomy was nerve-wracking and inconvenient, rather than that it was "feeding" from her.

In any event, you need fear no explanation from me :), and of course, I believe that your account truthfully tells what you experienced.

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Oriana, thank you. I had hoped you would drop in.

A lot of your method reminds me of the original Philip group, the one who knew that Philip was made up, and who did much of the creating themselves, especially by creative writing and drawing.

And two people is a small group. In your case, though, you had the expectation that you could make something, based on your earlier characters.

Do you have any comment about similarities or differences in your method compared with the Philip team's?

Your interaction with the tulpa reminds me of Anne Rice's Lasher. Or, if you prefer science fiction, Beverly's experience in the epsiode Sub Rosa from the 7th season of Star Trek: The Next Generation. In those fictional cases, the tulpa counterpart was something which already existed apart from the people to whom they attached themselves, and both were "serial attachers."

Alexanrdra David-Neel did seem confident that she made her tulpa, and then later, that she did extinguish it. Her motives for doing so were more that the thing's autonomy was nerve-wracking and inconvenient, rather than that it was "feeding" from her.

In any event, you need fear no explanation from me :), and of course, I believe that your account truthfully tells what you experienced.

There are many similarities, for my Tulpa I had a whole backstory for him, birth-life-death, I came up with his biography and all the achievements he had made in life, and how many incarnations he had - and he'd had at least three lifetimes as a human being. I experienced this as if he was telling me what happened. I used to have this reocurring dream about a fairground wheel, it would detach and crush me, and later he said this is how he died in his last incarnation. I haven't had the dream since he told me. I did a lot of creative writing with him and must have written "Forever Holme" many times - thats a playscript about him.

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Wow, every single person here completely passed over my post without so much as even an acknowledgment. Talk about having the blinders on...

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@Oriana -So when you invoke the friend, the friend takes and manifests inyour body?

Anyways, about the tupla thingy, would you mind creating onother ONE again? xD Can you please state the things that had been done by your(and your friend's xD) tulpa other from those you had stated? I would like to know what "tulpas" can possibly do. Did your tulpa tried to harm anyone?

**I'll ask more questions later xD. I'll be late for my classss!!

P.S.

Hey insight, not everyone ignored your post -.- . Actually you ignored one of MY posts, in which I actually questioned you about your statement.

Edited by nakajima the dreamer

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@Oriana -So when you invoke the friend, the friend takes and manifests inyour body?

Anyways, about the tupla thingy, would you mind creating onother ONE again? xD Can you please state the things that had been done by your(and your friend's xD) tulpa other from those you had stated? I would like to know what "tulpas" can possibly do. Did your tulpa tried to harm anyone?

**I'll ask more questions later xD. I'll be late for my classss!!

P.S.

Hey insight, not everyone ignored your post -.- . Actually you ignored one of MY posts, in which I actually questioned you about your statement.

At first I did invoke him - but its not like you think, it was done intentionally and put back in its place- yes invoke means to manifest it within my body. Creating another one is not something I intend to do again. I completely loved the last one to distraction and it was really difficult for me and my friend to let go and attempt to destroy him - I still don't think he's fully gone. Its quite a dangerous thing to do really.

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