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archangel_josh

God says: "Worship me or go to Hell!"

504 posts in this topic

How terrible!

A big God who creates everything in order for his creatures to worship him. Then when they die they go to heaven where they can be close to him and bow down and worship him forever and ever amen. ~~~ ... (snip) ...

-Josh

Hi Archangel_josh, none of the above is supported in Scriptures; but unfortunately ideas like that have become generally accepted beliefs.

Kind regards,

Karlis

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God says: "Worship me or go to Hell!",

More like He said “Here is a small sample of life, 60 or 70 years, if you would like more lets talk”

:tu:

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~~~ ...

... We were created, in his image, to be companions, to fellowship with him. ...

Hi Abby Mac, Scriptures say a great deal more than that, as to why God created Mankind. :)

Scriptures state that Mankind is intended to become literal children of God -- immortal spirit beings, who will be "born" (a second time) into the very family of God the Father; with Jesus as our elder brother. That in fact is the reason that those who have received the Spirit of God (while they are still living, breathing humans) have the right to address God as "Abba" ... aka as their literal Father.

Having written the above, I realise it is a very broad statement, and to back it up would require quoting lots of Scriptures; and to do that would become preaching the Bible. So, I'll leave it at that, and anyone who is interested these days has lots and lots of Bible study-sources available on the Internet to find out all of that through their own study. :tu:

Kind regards,

Karlis

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~~~ ...

... Honestly I don't don't know how people can believe in hell. ... a place of burning fire for eternity? ...

... So really I can't imagine a God that loves unconditionally would be able to send his creation to hell for eternity ...

Hi Brigit, there have been umpteen-plus posts in various threads explaining the fiction of a hell where souls are tortured. If you know how to use the Search Function on UM, why not do some research on "hell"? In fact, why not copy-paste such posts on a word-document; edit what you copy, and then print it out for further study? :tu:

Cheers,

Karlis

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Hi Brigit, there have been umpteen-plus posts in various threads explaining the fiction of a hell where souls are tortured. If you know how to use the Search Function on UM, why not do some research on "hell"? In fact, why not copy-paste such posts on a word-document; edit what you copy, and then print it out for further study? :tu:

Cheers,

Karlis

Naw... She's just gotta slide on over to the Triple Rock

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq49h06yE64

In a youtube mood. Sorry guys.

Never forget to laugh.

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What about extreme evil people, who harms innocent creatures of God? Won't God punish them?

He may do but I think its fair to say the god of the abrahamic mythologies doesn't realy look too kindly on 'non beleivers' either.

In fact he's pretty precise in his comments and instructions to 'true beleivers' about how to deal with them:

Everyone will have to worship Jesus -- whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10

A Christian can not be accused of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5

Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10

Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17

Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8

Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22

Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19

The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ” 2 John 1:7

Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12

False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9

But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me. Luke 19:27

Koran 5:33

The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land

Don't question anything Muhammed says or choose disbelief over faith. 2:108

Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

Fight them until "religion is for Allah." 2:193

Those who fail in their duty to Allah are proud and sinful. They will all go to hell. 2:206

War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not

"Give us victory over the disbelieving folk." 2:286

Allah will punish disbelievers in this world and the next. They will have no helpers. 3:56

Muslims are the best people. Most Non-muslims are "evil-livers." 3:110

Give us victory over the disbelieving folk. 3:147

Do not obey disbelievers. 3:149

Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers. (See 2:65-66) 4:47

Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89

The disbelievers are an open enemy to you. 4:101

Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah. 4:137

Allah will not allow disbelievers to succeed against believers. 4:141

You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom. 4:150-151

Allah has cursed the Jews and hardened their hearts. Nearly all of them are treacherous. 5:12-13

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I'm seeing some very dubious religion fanaticism in some posts here and its a little daunting to step in but here I go .....

I am not religious , through choice of my own or through the views of my peers I do not know how it came to be , for me there are many good things to take from religion - the ten commandments , although for me if I was the big guy I would have said the ten suggestions. I myself do partake in the theory of some form of life after this.

Jesus was the one who said (correct me if I'm wrong) - "the kingdom of heaven is within you" - Now taking from that exert I would have to say it was pretty defined in that as long as you live morally correct you will be at peace - That's good advice! . Now if we are all a creation of God surely he would have seen us in images defined by him , so religious or atheist he/she would understand - correct?

People worshipped Jesus / God back in the biblical era due to lack of guidance and oppression from many angles as was the trend of these times. How controversial would it be to suggest that organized religion is the driving force in profit in beliefs? , surely a God who sends his son to proclaim that heaven is within you was simply saying live well , live morally and think freely , and that the churches of this world saw belief as the perfect system of control.

The fear mongering would assist in this control - religion controls alot and remember I said controls , that to me contradicts the notion of finding your own kingdom of heaven within yourself.

ME

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Naw... She's just gotta slide on over to the Triple Rock

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq49h06yE64

In a youtube mood. Sorry guys.

Never forget to laugh.

G'day Peter, now don't come back with something like that again, till you too redeem yourself, mate. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZUZEYswj_U&NR=1

So you are a fan of the Blues Brothers, right? :D

Hooroo for now,

Karlis

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~~~ ... I think its fair to say the god of the abrahamic mythologies doesn't realy look too kindly on 'non beleivers' either.

In fact he's pretty precise in his comments and instructions to 'true beleivers' about how to deal with them:

Hi Karl 12 -- could you let us know from which anti-faith website did you copy your post, please? I think I may start a collection of these URLs and see who is copying from whom. :P

Kind regards,

Karlis

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G'day Peter, now don't come back with something like that again, till you too redeem yourself, mate. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZUZEYswj_U&NR=1

So you are a fan of the Blues Brothers, right? :D

Hooroo for now,

Karlis

"We're on a mission from God."

Huge Blues Brothers fan. Truly an amazing band beneath the fun and games. Steve Cropper? One of the most amazing and underated cats ever. If someone don't think theres a higher power out there... listen to Steve's stuff, anything from the Stax era.

Sorry for the thread jack. I meant to make ya'll smile, not change the subject.

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Hi Karl 12 -- could you let us know from which anti-faith website did you copy your post, please? I think I may start a collection of these URLs and see who is copying from whom. :P

Hey Karlis thanks for the reply,just look in your good book at the approriate passages.

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So all Christians are automatically Calvinists now?

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Hey Karlis thanks for the reply,just look in your good book at the approriate passages.
But you did not actually look into the Bible yourself to find the Scriptures you posted, did you Karl 12? And you did not compose the comments regarding these Scriptures either, did you?

As I said, I'm thinking of collecting URLs of anti-faith websites, and perhaps see who is plagarising from whom. B)

What is your personal opinion about copy-pasting from a website, and not providing the source from where you copied what you posted?

Kind regards,

Karlis

Edited by Karlis

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But you did not actually look into the Bible yourself to find (and comment) on the Scriptures you posted, did you Karl 12?

As I said, I'm thinking of collecting URLs of anti-faith websites, and perhaps see who is plagarising from whom. B)

What is your personal opinion about copy-pasting from a website, and not providing the source from where you copied what you posted?

Kind regards,

Karlis

i love me some copy pasta... as long as there's extra sauce man....

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I'm seeing some very dubious religion fanaticism in some posts here and its a little daunting to step in but here I go .....

I am not religious , through choice of my own or through the views of my peers I do not know how it came to be , for me there are many good things to take from religion - the ten commandments , although for me if I was the big guy I would have said the ten suggestions. I myself do partake in the theory of some form of life after this.

Jesus was the one who said (correct me if I'm wrong) - "the kingdom of heaven is within you" - Now taking from that exert I would have to say it was pretty defined in that as long as you live morally correct you will be at peace - That's good advice! . Now if we are all a creation of God surely he would have seen us in images defined by him , so religious or atheist he/she would understand - correct?

People worshipped Jesus / God back in the biblical era due to lack of guidance and oppression from many angles as was the trend of these times. How controversial would it be to suggest that organized religion is the driving force in profit in beliefs? , surely a God who sends his son to proclaim that heaven is within you was simply saying live well , live morally and think freely , and that the churches of this world saw belief as the perfect system of control.

The fear mongering would assist in this control - religion controls alot and remember I said controls , that to me contradicts the notion of finding your own kingdom of heaven within yourself.

ME

I like your post because I agree with it. If I didn't agree with it, I wouldn't like it! ;)

You're right though - when I started this threat topic I was being completely general about 'God' and 'Hell' and 'worship'. No doubt all that we know about 'God' 'hell' and 'worship' is though mistranslations, opinions, people's "visions" etc etc.

There is no truth in the Bible - only traces of the truth I think. It was written by men after all!

-Josh

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Actually, your understanding of God is egotistical and ultimately very very flawed. We were created, in his image, to be companions, to fellowship with him. Who are we, the created, to question the Creator. It says in Jeremiah that the bowl has no right to complain to the potter for what use he has been created. It has been created according to the will of the potter.period.

Arrogance is an unhealthy trait.

I am a sentient, intelligent primate, capable and determined to question anything that i don't understand. Arrogance lies not in questioning the world around us and the constructs of life, and existence, but in the narrow mined belief that there are ideas that should be followed without question.

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I wasn't being disingenous. I simply took the OPs exact words and turned them around. I think to find disingenuous you need to go back to the original comment. I do not believe non-believers are arrogant. I was referring to the specific comments that had just been made.

I then when on to explain a concept from the Bible. This was followed by a pitbull attack.

I was being somewhat sarcastic, but not disingenous. But it has been made crystal clear to me that non-christians can bash, insult, and criticize with impunity. I also now understand when a post says "I want the opinion of a Christian" either it doesn't really mean that or it is a set-up for gang attack.

You verey clearly said non-believers were arrogant - you said the OP was arrogant - he has a valid opinion and questions, why is he arrogant?

You said people attacked you, and frankly I just dont see any attack in the original OP or in anyone elses post. They challenged your opinions, just as you challenged theirs, but they didnt attack you. Just because the OP asked for a Christian opinion, does that mean your opinion cant be questioned by others?

Both of your posts were caustic and unfortunately you cant see it and have now started claiming you are a victim. Do you not see Christians (including yourself) "attacking" others on this board? Or do you choose to ignore those posts?

Christians are NOT a persecuted minority here, they just get challenged - if you don't want your beliefs to be challenged, why comment? You have posted here so many times that I doubt this is the first time you have come across debates between the religious and the non-religious on these boards.

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How terrible!

A big God who creates everything in order for his creatures to worship him. Then when they die they go to heaven where they can be close to him and bow down and worship him forever and ever amen.

This God would have to be the most egotistical and savage person in the universe.

What I'm looking for is the Christians to answer me this question:

Don't you think its egotistical and ultimately very very flawed if God creates creatures in order for them to worship him?

-Josh

God created jesus in his own image...A man without sin

What did Jesus do? He gathered 12 followers called deciples to help him teach his message...

What was Jesus trying to teach? He was trying to teach that although he knew he was the True Messiah and that man is made of sin from their heart and their deeds,that faith in God and his word would still protect them cause we are his children.He wasn't trying to teach us to be perfect because we are not 'archangel_josh...He was trying to teach us,that there is more to the spirit of GOD and his love,than our own wants and selfish desires.

So you are asking if GOD is egotistical if we should bow down to his feet and worship him? Jesus came to this earth over 2000 years ago and was crucified on the cross, because he was a threat to the Roman way of life and religion...They were more interested in their own ideology than listening to what he had to say...But what makes a man so threatened that he doesn't tell him to leave...he doesn't tell him to shoe away like a fly or even tell him he's crazy? Rather,he feels so threatened that he beats him to a bloody pulp as the crowd laughs at his supposively humiliation which was not there because of the faith Jesus had in his father.

I will tell you...It takes a man full of fear and evil and self rightiousness that it stains his heart.

Jesus 's Death proved evil existed at that very moment.

So you are asking me,if I think it's egotistical for Jesus as the son and God of Abraham as OUR father....for them to expect people to bow down to their feet? I don't look at it ,as egotistical for them to expect it or want it 'archangel_josh.

But if you must have a reason why...You should be honored to wash Jesus's feet with the water he walks on...yet with the selflessness of giving his life that he did NOT have to do,to allow you to pray to him as a father,a son or a holy spirit to forgive your mistakes and that you will try to follow the footsteps he died trying to teach.

Simply put...He died for you,would you do the same for him?

Risking your life for another is the ultimate sacrifice of one's true unconditional love...If a man/woman can do that,they can do anything...

The difference between Jesus and the evil spirit of Satan....?

Jesus doesn't expect you to die for him,like you ask him to forgive your sins....

Satan only demands you... not to love love Jesus,because Satan accomplishes your loyalty in him if he suceeds this goal with you.

What did Satan sacrifice to you,for you to give him his loyalty? Nothing....

Jesus said "there is no way to god, but through me"

So to answer your original thread? If you don't worship Jesus Christ,will you go to hell?

You better believe it!

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When you say you "met Father, and Mother (God)", do you mean it literally? Or is it just a figurative speech?

What about extreme evil people, who harms innocent creatures of God? Won't God punish them? Should a parent feel bad and stop punishing her/his evil child, or should she think rationally and punish her/his children for harming other innocent creatures?

Labib

Labib

Literally, and those who go against their own love will punish them self, when they are done doing that, They will be able to recieve The unconditional love Of God and The universe. Forgiveness i s key, being able to forgive one's self after Being a fully acountable conscious entity (Spirit), One will punish him self for wha6t he has Done, especially those, who include Father and Mother , Or In God's name To what they them self are acountable for.

They don't know it now, but will after there is no body to lie for, and Consciousness is realised.

Teaching Children The differance between Right and wrong Is a Good thing, Parent's are responsible for them in the beginning, after that , All we can do is love them unconditionally..Because reincarnation is true, And this is not our first go round, Know that Father and Mother did teach and luv us up, before Coming down To experience Experience, God loves us all now, even those who do not love God, are still Gods child, Because they don't remember and it was God who set it up this way, Father Says it is understandable.

Love Omnaka

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I am a sentient, intelligent primate, capable and determined to question anything that i don't understand. Arrogance lies not in questioning the world around us and the constructs of life, and existence, but in the narrow mined belief that there are ideas that should be followed without question.

*clap clap clap clap clap clap clap*

Amazing post. Agreed.

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God created jesus in his own image...A man without sin

What did Jesus do? He gathered 12 followers called deciples to help him teach his message...

What was Jesus trying to teach? He was trying to teach that although he knew he was the True Messiah and that man is made of sin from their heart and their deeds,that faith in God and his word would still protect them cause we are his children.He wasn't trying to teach us to be perfect because we are not 'archangel_josh...He was trying to teach us,that there is more to the spirit of GOD and his love,than our own wants and selfish desires.

So you are asking if GOD is egotistical if we should bow down to his feet and worship him? Jesus came to this earth over 2000 years ago and was crucified on the cross, because he was a threat to the Roman way of life and religion...They were more interested in their own ideology than listening to what he had to say...But what makes a man so threatened that he doesn't tell him to leave...he doesn't tell him to shoe away like a fly or even tell him he's crazy? Rather,he feels so threatened that he beats him to a bloody pulp as the crowd laughs at his supposively humiliation which was not there because of the faith Jesus had in his father.

I will tell you...It takes a man full of fear and evil and self rightiousness that it stains his heart.

Jesus 's Death proved evil existed at that very moment.

So you are asking me,if I think it's egotistical for Jesus as the son and God of Abraham as OUR father....for them to expect people to bow down to their feet? I don't look at it ,as egotistical for them to expect it or want it 'archangel_josh.

But if you must have a reason why...You should be honored to wash Jesus's feet with the water he walks on...yet with the selflessness of giving his life that he did NOT have to do,to allow you to pray to him as a father,a son or a holy spirit to forgive your mistakes and that you will try to follow the footsteps he died trying to teach.

Simply put...He died for you,would you do the same for him?

Risking your life for another is the ultimate sacrifice of one's true unconditional love...If a man/woman can do that,they can do anything...

The difference between Jesus and the evil spirit of Satan....?

Jesus doesn't expect you to die for him,like you ask him to forgive your sins....

Satan only demands you... not to love love Jesus,because Satan accomplishes your loyalty in him if he suceeds this goal with you.

What did Satan sacrifice to you,for you to give him his loyalty? Nothing....

Jesus said "there is no way to god, but through me"

So to answer your original thread? If you don't worship Jesus Christ,will you go to hell?

You better believe it!

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.

I tell you, though, even if I wanted Jesus to forgive me so I can reach the Father and become a Christian (which I don't) there is one sin that I've committed that Jesus cannot forgive me for.....

Why? Because, according to Mark 3:29 in the Holy Bible, "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

Jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he won't forgive you for denying the existence of the Holy Spirit.

So...I, archangel_josh deny the existance of the holy spirit. I blaspheme the holy spirit - the holy spirit is poopy on a stick and I would spit on it if it showed up, but it won't because it doesn't exist.

NOW - what am I to do? Jesus said he won't ever forgive me for that. So I can never ever be a Christian.

Seriously, can you tell me what I'm to do about this if I ever wanted to be a Christian?

-JOsh

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How terrible!

A big God who creates everything in order for his creatures to worship him. Then when they die they go to heaven where they can be close to him and bow down and worship him forever and ever amen.

This God would have to be the most egotistical and savage person in the universe.

What I'm looking for is the Christians to answer me this question:

Don't you think its egotistical and ultimately very very flawed if God creates creatures in order for them to worship him?

-Josh

If that was the purpose for God's creation, it would still not be egotistical since egotism is about having an inflated sense of one's worth, and a being who is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent would almost by definition have infinite worth, so how could He have an inflated sense of His worth?

However, a study of he Bible combined with a personal relationship with God reveals that God has a different purpose for Creation. He has angels whose only purpose in existence is to worship Him, so that is not what mankind's purpose is.

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If that was the purpose for God's creation, it would still not be egotistical since egotism is about having an inflated sense of one's worth, and a being who is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent would almost by definition have infinite worth, so how could He have an inflated sense of His worth?

However, a study of he Bible combined with a personal relationship with God reveals that God has a different purpose for Creation. He has angels whose only purpose in existence is to worship Him, so that is not what mankind's purpose is.

That is not an Angels onlyt purpose, and I believe you confuse Worship wit unconditional love, It's what Father has For Father's Sons (Angels/ Spirits) as well as what the son's have For Father , Mother and the universe.

It's all about Love, and It's not love if it's forced , Coerced , Or demanded.

My brothers, who you call angels Do it because They have freewill also and Love the love they get back.

There is no greater Love than God's unconditional Love, It just feels spectacular.

Love Omnaka

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Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.

I tell you, though, even if I wanted Jesus to forgive me so I can reach the Father and become a Christian (which I don't) there is one sin that I've committed that Jesus cannot forgive me for.....

Why? Because, according to Mark 3:29 in the Holy Bible, "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

Jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he won't forgive you for denying the existence of the Holy Spirit.

So...I, archangel_josh deny the existance of the holy spirit. I blaspheme the holy spirit - the holy spirit is poopy on a stick and I would spit on it if it showed up, but it won't because it doesn't exist.

NOW - what am I to do? Jesus said he won't ever forgive me for that. So I can never ever be a Christian.

Seriously, can you tell me what I'm to do about this if I ever wanted to be a Christian?

-JOsh

You are right Josh,that Blasphemy is a sin of eternal damnation...as it says so according to mark 3:29

I can't pretend to be a biblical scholar because I just am not...I know a little,but someone will always know more..

I also know that GOD in the Old testiment is often looked at as a vengeful god and many have probably turned their back on God for that assumption as well...

So honestly Josh,I can't tell you if what you just said is forgiveable or not, or something in the past you may have said is unforgiveable or not...

But I also believe that the very existence in Jesus (Gods Son) was evidence of the mercy of God alone...He gave his OWN son,to die in his name and spirit...that who so ever believith in him,will not perish...but have everlasting life (John 3:16)

Josh...If you pray to Jesus he will listen....He will hear you

But you must be honest and open to everything bad you have ever done and confess your sins, as he is higher than any court you would or will ever face...

It is better to do it now and mean what you say and live your life right and have the faith that Jesus will forgive you,than to wait for his judgement upon you...

It doesn't take a preacher or a minister to pray for your sins Josh....and if what you say is true Josh,you will serve yourself much greater by doing it yourself and at least giving yourself a chance...than falling in the wrong hands to someone who has no interest in how you feel, but only the control of your soul.

You see Josh...Jesus isn't just the King of kings..

He is your closest friend....he is the person your soul has been tugging at your heart, to be with for a long time...

So will Jesus forgive you for the Blasphemies and all the other sins

To my understanding Josh,there is truly only one sin in my heart that's unforgiveable (and I may be wrong)...and that's taking the "Mark of the Beast" or 666

That is the sin that I do know,that is unforgiveable and a sin that can't be taken back.

If you put your faith in Christ,he will protect you from that Mark...and you will go to heaven(from the sound of it,that may classify as a miracle of it's own...j/k with ya bud

And Josh...I wouldn't wait too long my friend (trust me)

But you got to mean it josh! He always knows when you're lying or not truthful and I think we both know what that means you will have to do,now don't we?

ttyl (I got to go train my dude on courtrivals)lol

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How terrible!

A big God who creates everything in order for his creatures to worship him. Then when they die they go to heaven where they can be close to him and bow down and worship him forever and ever amen.

This God would have to be the most egotistical and savage person in the universe.

What I'm looking for is the Christians to answer me this question:

Don't you think its egotistical and ultimately very very flawed if God creates creatures in order for them to worship him?

-Josh

Imagine standing in the presence of a being capable of creating the entire universe from the power of his thoughts and words. There's no way to describe such an occurence. You (and anyone) would be so overwhelmed by this experience that you wouldn't be able to keep yourself from worshipping him. I once had a sparing match with the number one ranked heavyweight boxer in my state. He landed a punch to my lower rib cage. I heard a strange scream/yell-like sound and found myself on the floor. It turns out I heard myself scream. It was weird, and maybe a bad example of your body doing something your mind didn't will.

And as far as your OP goes. Man (mankind) men and women, were originally created to have fellowship with God. They were friends. You should try reading the bible sometime - it explains all this. Is God egotistical because he created beings to worship him? He died for you - that's some ego.

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