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louie

The Mysterious Egyptian Tri-Lobed Disc

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We've translated this article from the Italian. Another translation that readers may find useful---used for ceremonial;funereal;ritualistic;shamanistic etc. purposes -often means; "we don't know what it was used for"...s8int.com

In the first wing of the Egyptian Museum of the Cairo between two rooms close to the Momias Room, one cannot help but be surprised to see in a small display cabinet, although not without some difficulty caused by the reflections of the light on the crystal that covers it, a solitary object similar to a wheel or stone disc.

This strange object has disturbed and continues disturbing all the Egyptologists that have had occasion to study it at great length. The first of them was its discoverer, Brian Walter Emery, one of the most important Egyptologists of 20th Century and the author of a classic volume on Egyptology, Archaic Egypt, that continues to be, after many years, an important bibliographical reference for the study and an understanding of the origins of the Old Egyptian Civilization

http://s8int.com/phile/page52.html

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We've translated this article from the Italian. Another translation that readers may find useful---used for ceremonial;funereal;ritualistic;shamanistic etc. purposes -often means; "we don't know what it was used for"...s8int.com

In the first wing of the Egyptian Museum of the Cairo between two rooms close to the Momias Room, one cannot help but be surprised to see in a small display cabinet, although not without some difficulty caused by the reflections of the light on the crystal that covers it, a solitary object similar to a wheel or stone disc.

This strange object has disturbed and continues disturbing all the Egyptologists that have had occasion to study it at great length. The first of them was its discoverer, Brian Walter Emery, one of the most important Egyptologists of 20th Century and the author of a classic volume on Egyptology, Archaic Egypt, that continues to be, after many years, an important bibliographical reference for the study and an understanding of the origins of the Old Egyptian Civilization

http://s8int.com/phile/page52.html

...and conveniently (but not unpredictably) for s8int.com, the actual source article is nowhere to be seen, so you can't waste your time to check the translation or the alleged "sources".

And if I'm not correct, the Egyptian Museum ("of the Cairo" [sic]?), the rooms are numbered, not named. Is there even a Momias Room?

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We've translated this article from the Italian. Another translation that readers may find useful---used for ceremonial;funereal;ritualistic;shamanistic etc. purposes -often means; "we don't know what it was used for"...s8int.com

In the first wing of the Egyptian Museum of the Cairo between two rooms close to the Momias Room, one cannot help but be surprised to see in a small display cabinet, although not without some difficulty caused by the reflections of the light on the crystal that covers it, a solitary object similar to a wheel or stone disc.

This strange object has disturbed and continues disturbing all the Egyptologists that have had occasion to study it at great length. The first of them was its discoverer, Brian Walter Emery, one of the most important Egyptologists of 20th Century and the author of a classic volume on Egyptology, Archaic Egypt, that continues to be, after many years, an important bibliographical reference for the study and an understanding of the origins of the Old Egyptian Civilization

http://s8int.com/phile/page52.html

Hubcap??

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I immediately thought candle holder??

:unsure:

ME

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...and conveniently (but not unpredictably) for s8int.com, the actual source article is nowhere to be seen, so you can't waste your time to check the translation or the alleged "sources".

And if I'm not correct, the Egyptian Museum ("of the Cairo" [sic]?), the rooms are numbered, not named. Is there even a Momias Room?

LOL, sources its a web site lol,lol

nope im not checking i post for people with imagination to play with the info weither its true or not is of no conciquence to me, i have my own thoughts an opnions on whats what, so run back now to belittling kids on topics such as ufos built the pyramids or mythical garden of eden has been found.

Ive no idea what this is an im not even sure if it exists, but i do figure this is the best place to post it for any intrested parties.

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LOL, sources its a web site lol,lol

nope im not checking i post for people with imagination to play with the info weither its true or not is of no conciquence to me, i have my own thoughts an opnions on whats what, so run back now to belittling kids on topics such as ufos built the pyramids or mythical garden of eden has been found.

Ive no idea what this is an im not even sure if it exists, but i do figure this is the best place to post it for any intrested parties.

Personally, I never use the stuff, I just sell it to people...

--Jaylemurph

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LOL, sources its a web site lol,lol

nope im not checking i post for people with imagination to play with the info weither its true or not is of no conciquence to me, i have my own thoughts an opnions on whats what, so run back now to belittling kids on topics such as ufos built the pyramids or mythical garden of eden has been found.

Ive no idea what this is an im not even sure if it exists, but i do figure this is the best place to post it for any intrested parties.

So basically what you're saying here is that no one has to take anything you say seriously anymore.... if they ever did to begin with.

Good to know... :tu:

Cz

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Personally, I never use the stuff, I just sell it to people...

--Jaylemurph

LOL. yeah i went to egypt took the photo , started up the web site an wrote the article, im making a fortune.

I noticed you dident pay.

cough up.

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So basically what you're saying here is that no one has to take anything you say seriously anymore.... if they ever did to begin with.

Good to know... :tu:

Cz

LOL:LOL do you see my name anywhere attached to that website the photo or the article, no you dont. so apart from reading the writers mind i cant stand behind anything the guy says.

just a talking point for people.

but quick run back to the Aliens built the pyramids thread someone found proof.

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We've translated this article from the Italian. Another translation that readers may find useful---used for ceremonial;funereal;ritualistic;shamanistic etc. purposes -often means; "we don't know what it was used for"...s8int.com

In the first wing of the Egyptian Museum of the Cairo between two rooms close to the Momias Room, one cannot help but be surprised to see in a small display cabinet, although not without some difficulty caused by the reflections of the light on the crystal that covers it, a solitary object similar to a wheel or stone disc.

This strange object has disturbed and continues disturbing all the Egyptologists that have had occasion to study it at great length. The first of them was its discoverer, Brian Walter Emery, one of the most important Egyptologists of 20th Century and the author of a classic volume on Egyptology, Archaic Egypt, that continues to be, after many years, an important bibliographical reference for the study and an understanding of the origins of the Old Egyptian Civilization

http://s8int.com/phile/page52.html

It's an exquisite piece of workmanship but I don't see what all the fuss is about. Nor do I see any basis for statements like this:

As well, the Egyptologist Cyril Aldred reached the conclusion that, independently of what the object was used for or what it represented, its design was without a doubt, a copy of a previous, much older metallic object.

I'm afraid I'm of the opinion that any egyptologists who are "disturbed" by this were halfway there to begin with.

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Posted (edited)

I'm good at this but this one's gonna take some time if I get it.

edited to add that it might be upside down. ;)

Edited by cladking
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I'll say what I think it is later on but will give a couple more

clues now to what I'm thinking. There are two missing parts;

a stone or brass ring and a copper deflector for the "top".

The object is ingenious but performs a simple function in a

highly specific context.

If I'm right this provides some more detail about infrastructure.

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We've translated this article from the Italian. Another translation that readers may find useful---used for ceremonial;funereal;ritualistic;shamanistic etc. purposes -often means; "we don't know what it was used for"...s8int.com

In the first wing of the Egyptian Museum of the Cairo between two rooms close to the Momias Room, one cannot help but be surprised to see in a small display cabinet, although not without some difficulty caused by the reflections of the light on the crystal that covers it, a solitary object similar to a wheel or stone disc.

This strange object has disturbed and continues disturbing all the Egyptologists that have had occasion to study it at great length. The first of them was its discoverer, Brian Walter Emery, one of the most important Egyptologists of 20th Century and the author of a classic volume on Egyptology, Archaic Egypt, that continues to be, after many years, an important bibliographical reference for the study and an understanding of the origins of the Old Egyptian Civilization

http://s8int.com/phile/page52.html

The Hell ..they have translated from italian.

The source page linked at the bottom is purely a english only page.

Tomb 3111

s8int is normally a creationist/oopart/ancient astronauts/pseudo **** based site and i wonder why the bothered to link to a page or stuff thats nowhere connected to oopart/creationism

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I think this may have been the originating website that s8int got their info from

Giza Building Project

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It looks like a hubcap. Thats my 2-cents

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Ive no idea what this is an im not even sure if it exists, but i do figure this is the best place to post it for any intrested parties.

Louie,

It certainly does exist. It's beautifully carved peice of stone made at a time when stone carved accoutrements were in competiton with those made from metal. In the case of the Egyptians, that would have been copper.

The most reasonable explanation appears right there in S8int.com, which is certainly unusual for that site, which someone else pointed out in an earlier post.

One theorist who has attempted to explain its function is William Kay, an English engineer. He has suggested that it was actually a ritualistic tri-flamed oil lamp.

A wick system comprising six bundles of rushes, bound together, were held in place by the lobes and thus kept immersed in the oil. If the ends of the four bundles were separated sufficiently, then twelve separate flames may have resulted instead of three.

Similar types of lamps (holders of multiple bundles of rushes)have been found made of stone and of copper, but not so nicely shaped.

Your linked site also states the following:

This object is approximately 61 centimeters in diameter, and 10.6 centimeters in height in the center. It is made of schist, a very fragile and delicate rock, which requires very laborious carving.

Turns out the thing is not made of schist, though it was originally reported that it was (most Egyptologists are not geologists, so we can forgive this minor error.)

See:

In the past, some Egyptologists have use the term "schist" to describe this artifact (Emery 1949, Aldred 1981); others have identified the object as a slate (Smith 1981). The term schist was not being used in a modern geologic context (i.e. a medium- to coarse-grained foliated metamorphic rock), but was being used to describe a metasedimentary rock called a metasiltstone. This rock is essentially the sedimentary rock siltstone that has been very weakly metamorphosed. It still retains its clastic sedimentary texture and has no visible schistosity. Metasiltstone is similar to slate, but is more coarse-grained and has no fissisity or slaty cleavage, making it a solid rock that does not easily fracture along discreet planes when struck. The weak metamorphism of siltstone indurates the rock and increases the cohesiveness of the mineral grains (i.e. rock hardness), making the rock less susceptible to fracture during carving.

This allows for fine detail and intricate shapes to be carved into vessels, statues, palettes, and other such objects. Metasiltstone as a material for vessel manufacturing came into use during the middle Predynastic and was used extensively during the Early Dynastic Period (Aston 1994). Besides the tri-lobed bowl there are a number of intricately carved metasiltstone objects known from the Early Dynastic, such as a very ornate toilet tray (Fig. 8), flower-shaped vessels (e.g. 1st Dynasty, UC37063 - Note: identified as greywacke but more likely metasiltstone, metagreywacke was not used until the Old Kingdom and not for vessels (Nicholson & Shaw 2000) -, vessels shaped as leaves (e.g. 1st - 2nd Dynasty, UC35653), vessels shaped to imitate basket-work (e.g. 1st - 2nd Dynasty, UC35654), vessels shaped as hieroglyphic symbols (e.g. 1st Dynasty, libation dish), and even used to imitate metal vessels (e.g. a stone vessel with simulated rivet-heads (Lauer 1976, pl. 109). Many of these sophisticated and creative designs are unique to the Early Dynastic Period, showing a high degree of experimentation in artistic expression during this time.

Plenty more pics at that site. If I'd thought that S8int would link to reasonable info, I could have saved time and gone to the link they provided which, remarkably, is very informative. It contains what I found at the above site along with a detailed explanation of how the "bowl" was probably carved.

The site S8int linked is to a paper by Archae Solenhofen, a name I've come across many times online and one I've never had any reason to be skeptical of. Solenhofen, as far as I can tell (I don't know the man's credentials,) is an expert in Egyptian stone carving.

Harte

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...and conveniently (but not unpredictably) for s8int.com, the actual source article is nowhere to be seen, so you can't waste your time to check the translation or the alleged "sources".

And if I'm not correct, the Egyptian Museum ("of the Cairo" [sic]?), the rooms are numbered, not named. Is there even a Momias Room?

If they translated from Italian they do not seem to be very proficient at it, it would be mummia room (or mummy room), which indicates that the article was written by somebody unknowing of the Egyptian Museum in Cairo...such a room does not exist.

But as you have pointed out: no source, no references.... conclusion: pure crap.

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I'll say what I think it is later on but will give a couple more

clues now to what I'm thinking. There are two missing parts;

a stone or brass ring and a copper deflector for the "top".

The object is ingenious but performs a simple function in a

highly specific context.

If I'm right this provides some more detail about infrastructure.

I know what your thinking cladking. It'll be one of those them there nozzles that they fitted to them geysers to give an even distribution of water to lift up them heavy stones right? :P

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I know what your thinking cladking. It'll be one of those them there nozzles that they fitted to them geysers to give an even distribution of water to lift up them heavy stones right? :P

No, no. Think simple function.

Think capillary action.

Keep in mind that the modern equivalent is used as an hydraulic dampener. This

is the same and is essential to its use but not to its function.

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I know what your thinking cladking. It'll be one of those them there nozzles that they fitted to them geysers to give an even distribution of water to lift up them heavy stones right? :P

Years later, in his previously mentioned work, Archaic Egypt, he commented on the object with a word that perfectly summarizes the reality of the situation and the discomfort the object causes; "cachibache" (a small hole that threatens to become a much larger hole)

This just might apply. It will open up some rather interesting, if not large, holes. ;)

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I see here the tendency to make a mountain out of a molehill. Yes, it's a fantastic artifact, but we can directly dismiss notions of an early wheel or other objects that we know for fact don't fit into the timeline. In any case, this artifact would never have worked as a wheel, unless it was for a toy--it's only about two feet round. And it would collapse under modest weight.

I like cladking's observation that it's upside-down, but as an oil lamp (on which I'll comment presently) it would work as displayed. LOL And that's probably where cladking and I will end in agreement, of course. It would not fit into his geyser theory in any practical manner. Again, too delicate. Don't mistake the fact that it's stone for the idea that it would be tough enough for any sort of industrial use. It would snap quite easily. And besides, Tomb 3111 in North Saqqara comes from Dynasty 1, during the reign of Anedjib, a long time before even the first pyramid was made. But I could be mistaken and that's not what cladking is thinking to begin with.

I also like the idea from that quote in Harte's recent post (#16) that it was a tri-footed base for an oil lamp. At two-feet round it's quite a bit larger than any oil lamp I've seen from Egypt, but it certainly does resemble one.

I'd really like to see a photo of the other side of the artifact because those three "legs" do indeed make it look upside-down. Then again, in this photo, you get a sense of how it would work as per Harte's quote. I've also seen this artifact classified as an ornamental bowl (some large stone platters resemble it) but I'm not sure of that.

It should not surprise anyone that the Egyptians were capable of crafting something like this. They're skills at stone-working were expert even by the time of late prehistory. Some of their earliest stone vessels and palettes I've seen surpass a lot of the stoneware produced in later dynastic history. There is not universal agreement if the owner of Tomb 3111 was Sabu, but no one can deny that the man for whom the tomb was made, was of considerable importance during the reign of Anedjib. It's not surprising that he should've been buried with something so beautiful. It's an interesting tomb. When Emery excavated it, he found in the burial chamber the original coffin and skeletal remains of the tomb owner.

This is an interesting and unusual object, but fringe websites aside, it's not about to revolutionize anything.

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I see here the tendency to make a mountain out of a molehill. Yes, it's a fantastic artifact, but we can directly dismiss notions of an early wheel or other objects that we know for fact don't fit into the timeline. In any case, this artifact would never have worked as a wheel, unless it was for a toy--it's only about two feet round. And it would collapse under modest weight.

I like cladking's observation that it's upside-down, but as an oil lamp (on which I'll comment presently) it would work as displayed. LOL And that's probably where cladking and I will end in agreement, of course. It would not fit into his geyser theory in any practical manner. Again, too delicate. Don't mistake the fact that it's stone for the idea that it would be tough enough for any sort of industrial use. It would snap quite easily. And besides, Tomb 3111 in North Saqqara comes from Dynasty 1, during the reign of Anedjib, a long time before even the first pyramid was made. But I could be mistaken and that's not what cladking is thinking to begin with.

I also like the idea from that quote in Harte's recent post (#16) that it was a tri-footed base for an oil lamp. At two-feet round it's quite a bit larger than any oil lamp I've seen from Egypt, but it certainly does resemble one.

I'd really like to see a photo of the other side of the artifact because those three "legs" do indeed make it look upside-down. Then again, in this photo, you get a sense of how it would work as per Harte's quote. I've also seen this artifact classified as an ornamental bowl (some large stone platters resemble it) but I'm not sure of that.

It should not surprise anyone that the Egyptians were capable of crafting something like this. They're skills at stone-working were expert even by the time of late prehistory. Some of their earliest stone vessels and palettes I've seen surpass a lot of the stoneware produced in later dynastic history. There is not universal agreement if the owner of Tomb 3111 was Sabu, but no one can deny that the man for whom the tomb was made, was of considerable importance during the reign of Anedjib. It's not surprising that he should've been buried with something so beautiful. It's an interesting tomb. When Emery excavated it, he found in the burial chamber the original coffin and skeletal remains of the tomb owner.

This is an interesting and unusual object, but fringe websites aside, it's not about to revolutionize anything.

I find it a very remarkable piece for its craftsmanship but I'm sure you've

seen so much that is even superior to this as to take it somewhat for granted.

Of course I realize there's a huge amount of such things out there but I've nev-

er actually seen them. Making those fins out of hard stone seems a virtual im-

possibility to me. I suppose as the work gets more fragile you just have to use

narrower chisels and softer strokes.

I think there's about only one thing this could be other than modern art; a float-

ing oil lamp. They dumped about 50 gallons of oil per acre on a lake and used

the lake to fuel the lamp. The wick was held to the central stem with a larger

ring so that it would extend to the top of the air cavity. There was probably a

copper deflector on the top to protect the stone from thermal expansion and

the danger of breakage. The wick was saturated in oil and lit then placed into the

water. The edges were connected by very light string or a floating twine so they

could be arranged on the water in a geometric pattern.

Of course the water sometimes got pretty turbulent what with the geyser falling

and all. ;)

With the fins they'd tend to want to just ride up and down and to still the water.

Ceremonies were quite obviously at daybreak so probably started earlier. The

light on the water would show up the mastaba, structures, and the God to their

best effect.

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Posted (edited)

I neglected to mention the clue it provided about infrastructure.

So as not to lose oil, the water from the "lake of the D[].t" was

drawn off by weirs rather than dams.

372a. Horus takes him by his fingers (to his side),

372b. he purifies N. in the lake of the jackal,

372c. he makes, the ka of N. clean in the lake of the Dȝ.t.

372d. He rubs down the flesh of the ka of N. and his own

372e. with that which is near Rē‘ in the horizon, that which he (Rē‘) took,

373a. when the two lands beamed and when he bared the face of the gods.

373b. He brings the ka of N. and himself to the great palace,

Edited by cladking

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I find it a very remarkable piece for its craftsmanship but I'm sure you've

seen so much that is even superior to this as to take it somewhat for granted.

Of course I realize there's a huge amount of such things out there but I've nev-

er actually seen them. Making those fins out of hard stone seems a virtual im-

possibility to me. I suppose as the work gets more fragile you just have to use

narrower chisels and softer strokes.

I think there's about only one thing this could be other than modern art; a float-

ing oil lamp. They dumped about 50 gallons of oil per acre on a lake and used

the lake to fuel the lamp. The wick was held to the central stem with a larger

ring so that it would extend to the top of the air cavity. There was probably a

copper deflector on the top to protect the stone from thermal expansion and

the danger of breakage. The wick was saturated in oil and lit then placed into the

water. The edges were connected by very light string or a floating twine so they

could be arranged on the water in a geometric pattern.

Of course the water sometimes got pretty turbulent what with the geyser falling

and all. ;)

With the fins they'd tend to want to just ride up and down and to still the water.

Ceremonies were quite obviously at daybreak so probably started earlier. The

light on the water would show up the mastaba, structures, and the God to their

best effect.

This is not a bad idea at all. I'm not familiar with floating oil lamps in Egypt, but that seems like a lot of oil (50 gallons) to drop into a lake. Remember, these oils were extremely expensive and precious, and were often imported from places like Nubia and Punt. How would a heavy stone "bowl" like this float, though?

I'm not saying floating lamps were impossible. In fact, it's easy to picture them. This particular lamp would've been used for temple purposes, and major temples contained large sacred lakes. Many ceremonies were conducted at night, so lamps floating on the sacred lake would've been quite dramatic. I'm not sure if Dynasty 1 temples like those at Hierakonpolis and Heliopolis contained large sacred lakes, though. That's something more common by the Middle Kingdom.

As for the crafting of such an object, once the artisan got down to the most delicate parts, he would've abandoned his chisels and turned to small, formed pieces of sandstone--much like coarse sandpaper. This is how many objects of masonry were smoothed, and quite a few examples of the sandstone "smoothers" are known.

LOL I'll bet the average ancient Egyptian artisan would've killed for one of these.

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