Qoais Posted September 13, 2010 #526 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Some nice pics, sketches and theories here....... http://www.oocities.com/unforbidden_geology/Tomb_3111.html Oh wow! That's the site I've been looking for forever, because it shows how the disc was made. I think there's another site somewhere that shows it in more detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
path_finder Posted September 13, 2010 #527 Share Posted September 13, 2010 In addition don't forget the Gill Simo major contribution, here: his theory on the flowerbowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSearcher Posted September 14, 2010 #528 Share Posted September 14, 2010 Some nice pics, sketches and theories here....... http://www.oocities.com/unforbidden_geology/Tomb_3111.html Nice site, thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tri-lobe Posted September 27, 2010 #529 Share Posted September 27, 2010 tri-lobe: Apologies for the slow reply. First, I do not personally consider you to be a "fringy". It would appear that you are a practical and talented individual who has taken the time and effort to more fully understand the nature of the artifact. As previously noted, I compliment your efforts and what can be learned from them. I would suggest, however, that your own points support the current supposition that the artifact in question may have had a more ceremonial/religious function. The current lack of parallels (particularly in other mediums), combined with its presence as a funerary item, may lead one to speculate that the artifact was not intended to be a sub-assemblage of a more elaborate mechanism. I would speculate that you are aware of the wide array of non-mechanical items associated with burials across the planet. "One-offs" of spiritual/position significance would appear to be not at all uncommon. As to the bare mechanics; my mention of associated apparati is factor that I am confident you fully understand. Axles, transfer gearing, load bearings, super-structure, etc. For an object of this nature to actually function as part of a water transport mechanism would entail quite an extensive array of components. There would appear, at least to date, no evidence of artifacts that would compliment such an apparatus. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronoss Posted September 28, 2010 #530 Share Posted September 28, 2010 (edited) you idiots its a chariot wheel ROFL those flaps would make it hard for you to stick a spear somewhere now would it not? Edited September 28, 2010 by chronoss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSearcher Posted September 28, 2010 #531 Share Posted September 28, 2010 (edited) you idiots its a chariot wheel ROFL those flaps would make it hard for you to stick a spear somewhere now would it not? Oh dear, rims for chariots...... They are the actual bling for any self-conscious pharaoh, who want's to keep his rep as a playa ..... Edited September 28, 2010 by TheSearcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Voodoo Posted May 26, 2012 #532 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I go with our old friend the searcher. He doubts thats even Egyptian vase in the first place. There is no indication. It could be same as Tuts dagger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Supertypo Posted May 27, 2012 #533 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I just solved the mystery. It was a sun umbrella base, designet to the pharao when he went to the beach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oniomancer Posted May 27, 2012 #534 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I just solved the mystery. It was a sun umbrella base, designet to the pharao when he went to the beach. Naw dude, it's a Christmas tree base. It's just missing the tripod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cladking Posted August 7, 2012 #535 Share Posted August 7, 2012 The Pyramid Texts is becoming an open book to me. Once you get used to the strange formatting and "hidden"referents it's actually pretty easy. I could write this stuff. There's another reference to the fire-pan. This one is a little more complex to understand. Of course this specific segment is more opaque because so much is missing as well. Some of the concepts appear nowhere else so can't be deduced by context. 1781d. he has illuminated the earth with his first divine being. The king was cremated atop the pyramid to complete his ascension to heaven. He arose to heaven on the smoke of incense thus being freed from his bandages. His "first divine being" is as Atum/ Osiris after he has been transmogrified by the flames. In life he was mortal and a man with divine potential as Horus, son of "Osiris". In death he illuminates the earth by causing the fire-pan to rock and be continually refueled. 1781a. -------------------- 1781b. N. [went?] to the field of the glorified; 1781c. his hands fell upon Dbn-wp.wt (him of the twisted horns), north of the island of Elephantiné (ȝbw); 1781d. he has illuminated the earth with his first divine being. 1782a (N. I 168). To the side ---------- 1782b. ------------ the [urae]us, the gu[ide], in his first birth. The uraeus is the original source of the CO2 in the ben ben. There's not a lot of context to go by but it certainly appears that author intent is the ability of the dead king to maintain the flame after he has died. The concept fits the tenor of this spec- ific ritual well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viojun Posted August 7, 2012 #536 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I am really interested in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cladking Posted August 7, 2012 #537 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I am really interested in it I'm guessing you have some sort of modern application in mind such as an automatic shut off valve in case of over or under-aeration in fluid handling? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted August 7, 2012 #538 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I'm guessing you have some sort of modern application in mind such as an automatic shut off valve in case of over or under-aeration in fluid handling? Or he's spamming and the post will be removed by a Mod sooner or later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harsh86_Patel Posted August 8, 2012 #539 Share Posted August 8, 2012 The surprise this artifact causes for me is more due to the fact that AE could carve a mean circular object out of stone with a circular cavity in the middle through which a rod of somekind could fit and use it as a lamp,but not realise that the circular object could rotate around that central axis and could be used as a gear or more simply a wheel.Strange people these AE were who would drag huge stones weighing several tonnes on sledges and wooden rollers and lift them to great heights building pyrimads which probably requires a great knowledge about levers,pulleys,simple mechanics and complex geometry and math but they would'nt figure out that they should use a wheel i.e a circular object rotating around an axis for transporting heavy loads etc. They knew about boats at the time of building the great pyramids but no wheels.Wheels getting stuck in the desert sand and hence not being used or preferred can be understood by me but the AE not knowing about the wheel and building the great pyramids is a little difficult for me to swallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted August 8, 2012 #540 Share Posted August 8, 2012 The surprise this artifact causes for me is more due to the fact that AE could carve a mean circular object out of stone with a circular cavity in the middle through which a rod of somekind could fit and use it as a lamp,but not realise that the circular object could rotate around that central axis and could be used as a gear or more simply a wheel.Strange people these AE were who would drag huge stones weighing several tonnes on sledges and wooden rollers and lift them to great heights building pyrimads which probably requires a great knowledge about levers,pulleys,simple mechanics and complex geometry and math but they would'nt figure out that they should use a wheel i.e a circular object rotating around an axis for transporting heavy loads etc. They knew about boats at the time of building the great pyramids but no wheels.Wheels getting stuck in the desert sand and hence not being used or preferred can be understood by me but the AE not knowing about the wheel and building the great pyramids is a little difficult for me to swallow. There is sufficient evidence that peoples throughout the Near East knew of and used the wheel at this early time, and this includes Egypt. The main thing is, to what functions could the wheel be applied? For the sake of hauling heavy loads, the limiting factor is the strength of wheel and axel. Egyptians were almost certainly using simple wheeled carts for agricultural purposes, but there's quite a difference between hauling grain and blocks of masonry. Wheels would've failed and axels snapped, so carts or wagons would not have been practical for hauling large and heavy loads. The Egyptians were always very intelligent and practical people. Sledges were much better suited to the task, and there is definitive evidence for using sledges from at least Dynasty 4 (if not earlier). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harsh86_Patel Posted August 8, 2012 #541 Share Posted August 8, 2012 But sesh it is not necessary for a hauling mechanism to have only four wheels and two axles it can have multiple axles and wheels to distribute any given amount of weight. And far as my knowledge of physics goes hauling huge heavy rocks over a dry surface will be easier by using a platform of wheels and axles then using sledges and lubrication.Dragging a sledge carrying huge loads in sand is surely a very painful ordeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaentum Posted August 8, 2012 #542 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Yet there is evidence they did use sledges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Spartan Posted August 8, 2012 #543 Share Posted August 8, 2012 There are indeed so many pictographical evidences of sledges being used, but never ever a chain pulley mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harsh86_Patel Posted August 8, 2012 #544 Share Posted August 8, 2012 have seen the pictographs where they show the use of sledges but i wonder why they wouldn't use wheels.............also spartan is there any pictographic evidence of how they lifted heavy objects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Spartan Posted August 8, 2012 #545 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Quarries of Balatai Plate 66-68 The statue is hauled out of the quarry plate 63-64 Further Transport plate 54-56 Aint those all SLEDGES?? Edit to Add : unless, cladking prefers to disagree. (yep. he is lurking in here). Remember Cladking, No Geysers. If you utter the world Geysers , i will set free my attack dobermans on you for sure. Edited August 8, 2012 by The_Spartan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaentum Posted August 8, 2012 #546 Share Posted August 8, 2012 have seen the pictographs where they show the use of sledges but i wonder why they wouldn't use wheels.............also spartan is there any pictographic evidence of how they lifted heavy objects? I'm not an expert in anything but this is why I see them as not using wheels. The weight of the stone being moved would tend to push the wheels into the sand eventually bogging the whole thing down, requiring them to offload the stone get the cart out of the sand and reload the cart and then maybe have to do it several more times before it reached it's destination. That is because there is relatively little area of each wheel that touches the sand. A sledge, on the other hand, has a much greater surface area and would be less prone to getting bogged down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Spartan Posted August 8, 2012 #547 Share Posted August 8, 2012 have seen the pictographs where they show the use of sledges but i wonder why they wouldn't use wheels.............also spartan is there any pictographic evidence of how they lifted heavy objects? I would suggest you to visit the following link which is so detailed http://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/pyramid-building.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cladking Posted August 8, 2012 #548 Share Posted August 8, 2012 unless, cladking prefers to disagree. Congratulations! You've solved a question that wasn't asked and isn't relevant. But we now know how they moved massive weights in 700 BC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docyabut2 Posted August 8, 2012 #549 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) All though modern ,Looks similer to the disks the chinese were buried with. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi_(jade) Edited August 8, 2012 by docyabut2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted August 8, 2012 #550 Share Posted August 8, 2012 But sesh it is not necessary for a hauling mechanism to have only four wheels and two axles it can have multiple axles and wheels to distribute any given amount of weight. And far as my knowledge of physics goes hauling huge heavy rocks over a dry surface will be easier by using a platform of wheels and axles then using sledges and lubrication.Dragging a sledge carrying huge loads in sand is surely a very painful ordeal. If such a contrivance was used, there is no evidence for it. We have to go by extant evidence. While a mechanism with many wheels is unlikely, we know sledges were often hauled over timber rollers. There are depictions post-dating the Old Kingdom showing the moving of colossal objects such as the statue in the well-known Deir el Bersha depiction, and accompanying the workmen are men hauling rollers (in the link, see the group of men carrying the large timber roller below the left-corner of the statue base). Moreover, several ramp footings which have been excavated, including the large one at Khufu's pyramid complex, have yielded the remains of timber rollers. So we have evidence both pictorial and archaeological. In one of Mark Lehner's experiential activities, which became the TV special This Old Pyramid, local Egyptian men were recruited to try out different ways of hauling stones the same size as those in the Great Pyramid. Their greatest success was in using the very method we're discussing: a block of masonry on a wooden sledge with timber rollers underneath. With men pulling from the front and others levering from the rear, a team of around a dozen had no problem hauling and maneuvering these blocks. This includes up inclines to approximate ramps. It was impressive to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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