Black Box UFO Secrets.

[karl 12]

Just watched the programme again with several (initialy sceptical) friends and it has to be one of the best documentaries out there on the subject.

Heres the full doc for anyone who hasn't seen it:

THC's Black Box UFO Secrets:

http://www.guba.com/watch/2000921008

Cheers.

[thefinalfrontier]

That sounds interesting Karl, Ill have to come back in the early morning to watch it,

Thanks for the post as always,

Regards;

TFF

[thefinalfrontier]

Thanks for the post Karl; That was an interesting video for sure, Its just a shame that it is always being denied, So many witnesses can not all be wrong,

[skyeagle409]

Just watched the programme again with several (initialy sceptical) friends and it has to be one of the best documentaries out there on the subject.

Heres the full doc for anyone who hasn't seen it:

THC's Black Box UFO Secrets:

http://www.guba.com/watch/2000921008

Cheers.

Thanks!

Sooner or later, the skeptics will have to face up to reality and realize that the UFOs in question, are not ours.

[DONTEATUS]

In total Agreement!

[skyeagle409]

In total Agreement!

Here are a couple of black secrets; the United States purchased 21 MiG-29s, and the German Air Force has a base in New Mexico.

And, the F-22 Raptor is my baby, with ties to my chapter, and I got word from my PR officer that we flew 76 children at the closed McClellan AFB, in Sacramento, CA. on Saturday, 04/11/09, under our Young Eagle's program.

F-22 Raptor

Here is another UFO encounter video in case you missed it.

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/20...ence_RB47_case/

Edited April 12, 2009 by skyeagle409

[karl 12]

SkyEagle,thats a fascinating case -never heard of that one

Theres also this very strange incident from Puerto Rico where two Navy F-14 Tomcat fighters apparently 'disappeared' whilst pursuing a UFO:

Huge Triangle shaped UFO in Cabo Rojo makes two U.S. Jet fighters disappear:

The situation continued going on and " in crescendo" until the night in which two U. S. Navy jet fighters were apparently abducted in mid air by a huge triangular shaped UFO and disappeared in front of more than 115 witnesses that have surfaced up to this moment.

This event happened in the night of Dec. 28, 1988, at 7:45 P.M.

According to most witnesses, there seemed to be three jet fighters involved with the incident, two of them disappeared in mid air as they intercepted and closed in on the huge triangular UFO, and the third one fled the area flying to the north, being chased by several big red balls of light that came out from the UFO.

After this, the UFO split into two separate triangular objects in a silent flash of light, after which one of the objects or sections flew off very fast to the north and the other one flew to the east, disappearing.

As readers must realize, this incident has profound implications to all of us, and is one of the most important UFO incidents reported in the recent years in Puerto Rico and abroad.

http://www.iraap.org/Martin/PR.htm

Also:

From Puerto Rico comes an astounding account of two Navy F-14 ‘Tomcat’ fighters that engaged a gigantic triangular shaped UFO in the Cabo Rojo area.

This encounter took place December 28, 1988. Eyewitnesses alleged the ‘Tomcats’ intercepted the object and then were somehow ‘trapped’ or taken aboard this huge craft.

Quoting Timothy Good from his book Alien Liaison:

“Although the FAA denied this incident had occurred, investigator Jorge Martin subsequently obtained confirmation from a U.S. Navy source who said there were radar-tapes showing what had happened which were immediately classified and sent to Washington D. C.”

http://www.jimnicholsufo.com/ufos-reconsid...igative-report/

MUFON Report:

December 28, 1988, 7:45 p.m. Area of the towns of Lajes and Cabo Rojo in the western end of Puerto Rico.

(see January 1990 issue of the MUFON UFO Journal for details).

Numerous residents of the area reported seeing jet fighters flying through the area, starting at 6 p.m. A week earlier, some people had seen jet fighters chase a small UFO over the Sierra Bermeja mountain ridge and Laguna Cartagena (a lagoon), sites where a number of UFO sightings had been reported since 1987.

At 7:45 this evening, residents saw a large triangular UFO flying over the Sierra Bermeja.

It seemed to have some kind of extended appendage on its frontal section with many brilliant colored lights constantly blinking on and off.

It was slightly curved at its rear end, had a gray metallic structure and had a large central yellow light that was being emitted from a big bulging luminous circular concave appendage.

At the triangle's right "wing tip" were brilliant yellow lights and on the left were red lights.

As the people watched, two jet fighters tried to intercept the object.

They passed in front of it, at which time the UFO veered to the left and made a turn back, reducing its speed. The jets tried to intercept it three times, and that's when the UFO decreased its speed, almost stopping in mid-air.

One jet stationed itself near the UFO's right side and the other at its rear. Suddenly, the jet in back just disappeared on top of or inside the UFO. One witness who was watching with binoculars said he never saw the jet emerge from beyond the UFO.

The second jet remained very close to the right side of the object, looking very small in comparison. As the UFO flew a little to the west, the second jet also disappeared, apparently inside the UFO, and its engine noise stopped.

The object then began descending and came down very close to the ground over a small pond known as Saman Lake. It stood still in mid-air for a moment, then straightened its corners and gave off a brilliant flash of yellow light from the central ball of light, like an explosion, but without making any noise.

It then divided into two different and distinct triangular sections. The triangle to the right was illuminated in yellow and the other in red.

Then both shot away at great speed, one to the southeast, and the other to the northwest. Red sparks could be seen falling when the object divided itself.

A retired Army veteran living in the area said that at 8:20 p.m., a bunch of black helicopters arrived and flew over the Sierra Bermeja and the Laguna Cartagena areas without lights until midnight and appeared to be searching for something.

UFO researcher Jorgé Martin checked with all Puerto Rican and U.S. Government agencies that might have knowledge of the incident but all denied knowing anything about what happened. Martin said that a week later a U.S. Naval officer whom he could not identify confirmed all that had happened and said radar tapes had been sent to Washington, D.C. and that a lid of secrecy had been placed on the whole affair.

http://www.mufon.com/bob_pratt/triangles.html

British researchers discuss incident:

Analysis of events:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3osH44KumY...player_embedded

Cheers.

Edited April 13, 2009 by karl 12

[karl 12]

Thanks for the post Karl; That was an interesting video for sure..

TFF Glad you liked it -its certainly one of the better documentaries out there

Other interesting Jet incidents:

Brazil,1986:

http://www.ufologie.net/htm/brazil86.htm

Iran,1976:

http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case200.htm

Arizona:

http://parabook.wordpress.com/2009/03/21/m...r-arizona-town/

Texas:

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/15/ufo-i...as-pursued.html

Cheers.

Edited April 13, 2009 by karl 12

[karl 12]

New address for documentary:

link

[skyeagle409]

New address for documentary:

link

Thanks, Karl. Welcome back!

[Amerix]

I read about that RB47 case. Apparently one of the pilots agreed that the "tailgating" by the UFO was just moon glare behind the plane that made it look like a shiny object behind the it, and the signals they were supposedly reading were never confirmed and ended up being dismissed as interference in the equipment.. Pretty easy explanation IMO, and often sensationalized for TV ratings.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Cpl599

[Universal Sight]

Sooner or later, the skeptics will have to face up to reality and realize that the UFOs in question, are not ours.

Your right. Some are from others countries as well. Remeber too that the Germans were way ahead of anyone else with technology and theier scientists ended up in America and some in Russia when the war was over. Some of these pilots may not know all aircraft. Even military pilots if they arent in on the specific black projects. ill give you the fact that they are UFO's...... but not with alien creatures on them. Some of them may be manned..... and some may be pilotless like the drones. This would explain the ability for the quick turns, starts and stops. No type of body could take that kind of stress. Think about it.... we can only take so many G forces before passing out. Getting shaken up in a vehicle would cause brain & organ damage, concussions and the like.

PARAphrase:

Sooner or later, the believers will have to face up to reality and realize that the UFOs in question, are in fact, ours (Earthly in origin)

will reply about the video as soon as i get through it all the way.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Universal Sight

[skyeagle409]

Thanks for the post Karl; That was an interesting video for sure, Its just a shame that it is always being denied, So many witnesses can not all be wrong,

I figure that as many planets as there are, there are at least several alien civilizations visiting Earth.

Edited November 23, 2010 by skyeagle409

[skyeagle409]

Your right. Some are from others countries as well. Remeber too that the Germans were way ahead of anyone else with technology and theier scientists ended up in America and some in Russia when the war was over. Some of these pilots may not know all aircraft. Even military pilots if they arent in on the specific black projects. ill give you the fact that they are UFO's...... but not with alien creatures on them. Some of them may be manned..... and some may be pilotless like the drones. This would explain the ability for the quick turns, starts and stops. No type of body could take that kind of stress. Think about it.... we can only take so many G forces before passing out. Getting shaken up in a vehicle would cause brain & organ damage, concussions and the like.

PARAphrase:

Sooner or later, the believers will have to face up to reality and realize that the UFOs in question, are in fact, ours (Earthly in origin)

will reply about the video as soon as i get through it all the way.

The UFOs in question, are not ours and the Air Force made it plain and clear in its 1952 Intelligence report on flying saucer maneuvers. There is no way those UFOs are ours and, they are noted for violating a number of international flight regulations on a regular basis.

The way these UFOs operate, and the advanced technology involved, exclude all aircraft of mankind. For an example, operators of the UFOs in question, had figured out how to flying at hypersonic speeds within the atmosphere and not produced sonic booms, which is something that mankind has not figured out, which simply means that those UFOs in question, are not ours.

[DONTEATUS]

Count me in too ! AS Long as they dont just stop in for a Late nite snack ! Im Good to Go !

UFO`s Still Rock the Imagination and we could all use more of that on this Planet ! IMO. ASAP, Bueno !

[Universal Sight]

The UFOs in question, are not ours and the Air Force made it plain and clear in its 1952 Intelligence report on flying saucer maneuvers. There is no way those UFOs are ours and, they are noted for violating a number of international flight regulations on a regular basis.

The way these UFOs operate, and the advanced technology involved, exclude all aircraft of mankind. For an example, operators of the UFOs in question, had figured out how to flying at hypersonic speeds within the atmosphere and not produced sonic booms, which is something that mankind has not figured out, which simply means that those UFOs in question, are not ours.

Damn. i just typed i nice long reply with various points and it blanked out somehow.

so, i will just restart with this shorthand version lol.

i believe that most UFO's are our technology including the orb types. Its the same view of mine that modern man doesnt give the intelligence credit to earlier civilizations. Just as the public doesnt give the black project scientists or whomever credit for advances in aerospace technology.

Dont you think that building a very fast craft would be the way to go in warfare? Your right, humans couldnt take the g forces etc that go along with the way these craft move. This is why i believe most are unmanned. Think of the possibility of having a craft so fast that it could travel into space from say, The USA and go over Russia, descend to the upper atmosphere, drop a nuke and then have the ability to go straight up to space immediately and back home quickly. the craft could realistically be into space before the nuke even hits. Thus inhibiting the chance of being spotted and/or have the chance of being "chased" back to its point of origin. This would be genius IMO as far as air warfare. This would also decline the need for ground troops thereby eliminating so many casualties to your own armed forces. Future wars will be primarily fought in this manner as it has already started with the various known drone-type crafts.

The other points i had, in short, were dealing with the possibility of how the aliens wouldve gotten here:

1. having the ability to actually see into other galaxies/solar systems and have the ability to decipher what kind of atmosphere and beneful resources to make it worthwhile to make the trip worth it.

2. Having the ability to study any civilization found to the extreme of knowing how advanced they would be and if they are hostile or peaceful. It would suck to travel all that way to get obliviated by a race even more advanced than you obviously are.

3. Having the ability to travel through space/time. None of these have been physically proven so need to be discounted until it is. Including all the effects and dangers of travelling at light speed for years at a time. Hitting objects in space such as metoers, asteriods and other tiny debris up to planets themselves. developing the ability to travel at light speed is one thing. but being able to dodge the harmful things is another. You yourselve said it. Humans couldnt take the force of the turn in craft that go 1000's of MPH. No convert that proposal to going the speed of light and having to turn.

4. Sustaining life and on board resources to remain alive for a trip to Earth from say a minimum trip of 5 lightyears away. (travelling at the speed of light for 5 years). This would have to include many many individuals to aide in keeping the race alive genetically.

The only way there could be aliens here would be if, say, NASA or whomever have hidden the fact that there are actually more planets in our solar system than we know and have actually found life there. To me, this would be the only plausible way of having alien life here because the travel would realistically be possible then.

I used to be a UFO(alien) believer. but i was also young and imaginative. Now that i am older i base my beliefs on logic and facts UFO(Earthly origin). Not saying that im right on every point...but until proven otherwise this is my view.

[1963]

Damn. i just typed i nice long reply with various points and it blanked out somehow.

so, i will just restart with this shorthand version lol.

i believe that most UFO's are our technology including the orb types. Its the same view of mine that modern man doesnt give the intelligence credit to earlier civilizations. Just as the public doesnt give the black project scientists or whomever credit for advances in aerospace technology.

Dont you think that building a very fast craft would be the way to go in warfare? Your right, humans couldnt take the g forces etc that go along with the way these craft move. This is why i believe most are unmanned. Think of the possibility of having a craft so fast that it could travel into space from say, The USA and go over Russia, descend to the upper atmosphere, drop a nuke and then have the ability to go straight up to space immediately and back home quickly. the craft could realistically be into space before the nuke even hits. Thus inhibiting the chance of being spotted and/or have the chance of being "chased" back to its point of origin. This would be genius IMO as far as air warfare. This would also decline the need for ground troops thereby eliminating so many casualties to your own armed forces. Future wars will be primarily fought in this manner as it has already started with the various known drone-type crafts.

The other points i had, in short, were dealing with the possibility of how the aliens wouldve gotten here:

1. having the ability to actually see into other galaxies/solar systems and have the ability to decipher what kind of atmosphere and beneful resources to make it worthwhile to make the trip worth it.

2. Having the ability to study any civilization found to the extreme of knowing how advanced they would be and if they are hostile or peaceful. It would suck to travel all that way to get obliviated by a race even more advanced than you obviously are.

3. Having the ability to travel through space/time. None of these have been physically proven so need to be discounted until it is. Including all the effects and dangers of travelling at light speed for years at a time. Hitting objects in space such as metoers, asteriods and other tiny debris up to planets themselves. developing the ability to travel at light speed is one thing. but being able to dodge the harmful things is another. You yourselve said it. Humans couldnt take the force of the turn in craft that go 1000's of MPH. No convert that proposal to going the speed of light and having to turn.

4. Sustaining life and on board resources to remain alive for a trip to Earth from say a minimum trip of 5 lightyears away. (travelling at the speed of light for 5 years). This would have to include many many individuals to aide in keeping the race alive genetically.

The only way there could be aliens here would be if, say, NASA or whomever have hidden the fact that there are actually more planets in our solar system than we know and have actually found life there. To me, this would be the only plausible way of having alien life here because the travel would realistically be possible then.

I used to be a UFO(alien) believer. but i was also young and imaginative. Now that i am older i base my beliefs on logic and facts UFO(Earthly origin). Not saying that im right on every point...but until proven otherwise this is my view.

Hi Universal Sight!

Nicely thought out and executed post. And, as you know... everyone is entitled to their own view, and mine is that you are crediting man with far too much technological-advancement, and are demeaning the possible achievements of our cosmic neighbours, by imbuing your perception of our 'possible visitors' with mans current understanding of the laws of physics, which are increasingly looking likely to be not as rigid as previously thought.

I could be wrong...but I would have thought that there were too many good astronomers around the world, for there to be any hidden planets in our solar system. And you're right about the difficulties of such a long and arduous journey for ET to reach 'this little blue ball' that we call home! But in my humble opinion....Their advanced intellect could well have allowed them to circumvent the problems of intergalctical travel by means as yet only theorised and dreamt of by mankinds most intelligent scientific visionaries.(i'll spare you my feeble atempts of speculationary guesses!..but you get my drift.)

Anyway buddy,...it would seem that you do not believe in the ETH, and I do!

But niether of us can claim to be right...because niether has the 'smoking-gun'!

I cannot prove that 'they're here', and likewise you cannot prove that they're not.

But then...that's the point of these UFO forums is'nt it?

So 'vive la difference!'....it makes life interesting!

Cheers.

P.S...I'm middle aged now , and still have an imaginative mind. LOL.

Edited November 24, 2010 by 1963

[Drunkenparrot]

And, the F-22 Raptor is my baby, with ties to my chapter, and I got word from my PR officer that we flew 76 children at the closed McClellan AFB, in Sacramento, CA. on Saturday, 04/11/09, under our Young Eagle's program.

Sky, I know this is an old post but were you saying that your old squadron provided F-22 incentive rides for 76 members of the Young Eagles?

[Universal Sight]

Hi Universal Sight!

Nicely thought out and executed post. And, as you know... everyone is entitled to their own view, and mine is that you are crediting man with far too much technological-advancement, and are demeaning the possible achievements of our cosmic neighbours, by imbuing your perception of our 'possible visitors' with mans current understanding of the laws of physics, which are increasingly looking likely to be not as rigid as previously thought.

I could be wrong...but I would have thought that there were too many good astronomers around the world, for there to be any hidden planets in our solar system. And you're right about the difficulties of such a long and arduous journey for ET to reach 'this little blue ball' that we call home! But in my humble opinion....Their advanced intellect could well have allowed them to circumvent the problems of intergalctical travel by means as yet only theorised and dreamt of by mankinds most intelligent scientific visionaries.(i'll spare you my feeble atempts of speculationary guesses!..but you get my drift.)

Anyway buddy,...it would seem that you do not believe in the ETH, and I do!

But niether of us can claim to be right...because niether has the 'smoking-gun'!

I cannot prove that 'they're here', and likewise you cannot prove that they're not.

But then...that's the point of these UFO forums is'nt it?

So 'vive la difference!'....it makes life interesting!

Cheers.

P.S...I'm middle aged now , and still have an imaginative mind. LOL.

Thank you. . . and the same to you.

Look, im all about debate and exchanging ideas about this. I am a skeptic yes, but i also go at things with an open mind.

Your right, i have no absolute proof that they arent here, (i was waiting for this response from someone BTW...lol), but in saying that i would have to say that my view would have to tip the scales so-to-speak. Just because they havent made themselves available to us. What are they waiting for?

Are they waiting for us to wipe each other out via nuclear, chemical or biological war? IF so why do you think?

Are they waiting for 2012 and the end of humanity? If so, why do you think?

Are they waiting to teach us some great knowledge? If so, why?

Are they waiting until we naturally catch up to or come close to their intelligence so they can then be able to communicate easier? If so, why?

If they did come from Earth evolving from a million years past...are we their little "toys"/projects? Are they waiting because they know they created a destructive and out of control species? If so, Why?

If they came from another planet in peace, why are they waiting to make that peace?

If they came here to rule the planet as the top species, why are they waiting to make that war?

Do you believe in the Yeti? Bigfoot? Skunk ape? Jersey Devil? Loch Ness monster? If so, why? <----- (this is to anyone)

Have you seen these and without a doubt know what you saw if you do believe in them? If not, why do you believe if you havent?

I was also waiting for the astronomer reply as well. That point i made was just to make the point of them being able to realistically be here. Many many people believe that there is life on Mars. Supposedly underground. Do you believe this? If they were to be from an underground space on a planet, including Earth, i would suspect they would in fact look like the Greys. Pale skin, large dark eyes to see in the dark caverns....etc.

Many people believe that they may also reside in the seas, lakes and oceans around the world. Do you? If they in fact did live Underwater i would suspect that they would originate in the Oceans with the smaller bodies of water being "stops" for whatever reason. It makes me think of the movie, damn i cant remember the name at this time, where the diver went thousands of feet into the ocean and was taken by the "butterfly" looking alien to an undersea base. Where he was shown that we were being watched by them. This is how i believe it could be if they did live like this. After all, where did life originate on this planet? Whats to say they didnt evolve underwater even before the first land animal evolved? Do you believe this? I dont. but i too am still imaginative...lmao.

As far as our government and giving them too much credit...maybe i am.... but maybe you arent giving them enough as well. I just think of how quickly we are evolving technologically...which will in time most likely evolve us physically because the more advanced we get the less strenuous (sp.?) work we will have to do. (Robots). Again, i will also refer to the German of WWII. They were advanced and were resiliant in their experiments. Has this not kept on going by other countries since then?

IF we are to believe those that claim abduction and live, why cant we believe the occasional government official, different types of scientists/engineers etc when they come out and say that we have equipment that whatever you imagine, we have the ability to do? The ability for cloaking, fast planes, different types of weapons etc. Is this stuff not believable? They say that whatever we know about is the old stuff and better stuff is what they are most likely testing via UFO flights etc. They have to test them somehow right? What better way than right out in the open when you cover for it has already been made by the public for them being alien spaceships.

Now, all the government and armed forces men and women that come out to "spill the beans" and tell us the truth about UFO's etc. Why all of a sudden are they to be trusted? They were black project/government/military workers correct? These people are trained to deceive? Why now? Why would they want to endanger themselves and thier families if it was that secret? Wouldnt it be treason?

The stuff on the tapes could be anything. Remember, they werent in space at one time, when they finally got there im sure there were things that they didnt know were there hence, the UFO. Once something is identified its not a UFO anymore. It was all new once. Therefore confusion and imagination can easily take over the thoughts.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Universal Sight

[Universal Sight]

i believe that most UFO's are our technology including the orb types. Its the same view of mine that modern man doesnt give the intelligence credit to earlier civilizations. Just as the public doesnt give the black project scientists or whomever credit for advances in aerospace technology.

Dont you think that building a very fast craft would be the way to go in warfare? Your right, humans couldnt take the g forces etc that go along with the way these craft move. This is why i believe most are unmanned. Think of the possibility of having a craft so fast that it could travel into space from say, The USA and go over Russia, descend to the upper atmosphere, drop a nuke and then have the ability to go straight up to space immediately and back home quickly. the craft could realistically be into space before the nuke even hits. Thus inhibiting the chance of being spotted and/or have the chance of being "chased" back to its point of origin. This would be genius IMO as far as air warfare. This would also decline the need for ground troops thereby eliminating so many casualties to your own armed forces. Future wars will be primarily fought in this manner as it has already started with the various known drone-type crafts.

i made this same reply on a similar thread but i felt it would fit the quote here as well.

Behind these curtains was another big area, and inside this area they had all the lights turned off; so, they go in and they turn the lights on, and here are three flying saucers floating off the floor - no cables suspended from the ceiling holding them up, no landing gear underneath - just floating, hovering above the floor. They had little exhibits with a videotape running, showing the smallest of the three vehicles sitting out in the desert, presumably over a dry lakebed - someplace like Area 51. It showed this vehicle making three little quick, hopping motions; then [it] accelerated straight up and out of sight, completely disappearing from view in just a couple of seconds - no sound, no sonic boom - nothing.

They had a cut-away illustration, pretty much like the one I'll show you in a little bit, that showed what the internal components of this vehicle were, and they had some of the panels taken off so you could actually look in and see oxygen tanks and a little robotic arm that could extend out from the side of the vehicle for collecting samples and things. So, obviously, this is a vehicle that not only is capable of flying around through the atmosphere, but it's also capable of going out to space and collecting samples, and it's using a type of propulsion system that doesn't make any noise. As far as he could see, it had no moving parts and didn't have any exhaust gases or fuel to be expended - it was just there hovering.

So, he listened intently and collected as much information as he could, and when he came back, he told me how he had seen these three flying saucers in this hangar at Norton Air Force Base on November 12, 1988 - it was a Saturday. He said that the smallest was somewhat bell-shaped.

source

edit to add reference to what some say are the neutral bouyancy craft possibly:

Now, the other thing that I believe happens here, is that as this system begins to tap into this zero-point energy and is drawing it away from the local environment, the whole craft becomes lighter in weight - it becomes partially mass-canceled, if you will, which is one of the reasons why just a little bit of energy in the capacitors could shoot it all over the place.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Universal Sight

[Universal Sight]

i will also refer to my post in another thread instead of typing it all out again lol.

This refers to some of the sightings being Earthly in origin. Another example in a couple posts up as well.

My post

My other post for reference was #233

[AH-64Apache]

Dont you think that building a very fast craft would be the way to go in warfare? Your right, humans couldnt take the g forces etc that go along with the way these craft move. This is why i believe most are unmanned. Think of the possibility of having a craft so fast that it could travel into space from say, The USA and go over Russia, descend to the upper atmosphere, drop a nuke and then have the ability to go straight up to space immediately and back home quickly. the craft could realistically be into space before the nuke even hits. Thus inhibiting the chance of being spotted and/or have the chance of being "chased" back to its point of origin. This would be genius IMO as far as air warfare. This would also decline the need for ground troops thereby eliminating so many casualties to your own armed forces. Future wars will be primarily fought in this manner as it has already started with the various known drone-type crafts.

The other points i had, in short, were dealing with the possibility of how the aliens wouldve gotten here:

1. having the ability to actually see into other galaxies/solar systems and have the ability to decipher what kind of atmosphere and beneful resources to make it worthwhile to make the trip worth it.

2. Having the ability to study any civilization found to the extreme of knowing how advanced they would be and if they are hostile or peaceful. It would suck to travel all that way to get obliviated by a race even more advanced than you obviously are.

3. Having the ability to travel through space/time. None of these have been physically proven so need to be discounted until it is. Including all the effects and dangers of travelling at light speed for years at a time. Hitting objects in space such as metoers, asteriods and other tiny debris up to planets themselves. developing the ability to travel at light speed is one thing. but being able to dodge the harmful things is another. You yourselve said it. Humans couldnt take the force of the turn in craft that go 1000's of MPH. No convert that proposal to going the speed of light and having to turn.

4. Sustaining life and on board resources to remain alive for a trip to Earth from say a minimum trip of 5 lightyears away. (travelling at the speed of light for 5 years). This would have to include many many individuals to aide in keeping the race alive genetically.

The only way there could be aliens here would be if, say, NASA or whomever have hidden the fact that there are actually more planets in our solar system than we know and have actually found life there. To me, this would be the only plausible way of having alien life here because the travel would realistically be possible then.

I used to be a UFO(alien) believer. but i was also young and imaginative. Now that i am older i base my beliefs on logic and facts UFO(Earthly origin). Not saying that im right on every point...but until proven otherwise this is my view.

According to the alleged ET brief to Ronald Reagan the Ebens are able to travel to here from Zeta Reticuli starsystem (about 40 light years away) faster than speed of light:

ADVISER #1: Mr President. Everything we know about Alien visitation to Earth is contained in 16 (sixteen) volumes of binders. These binders contain thousands of pages. We can give you anything you wish but, as Director Casey said, we must evaluate the clearances of each person listening to our responses.

PRESIDENT: OK, I now understand. Give me whatever you want and I'll continue to ask questions. But if you need me to wait on an answer, just tell me.

WM CASEY: OK, Mr President we will do that. I still don't know the entire story. I have read one tenth of one binder and have hundreds of questions.

PRESIDENT: OK, let's continue.

The CARETAKER: Mr President, thank you for those responses. I will answer any question, if I can. But if the question is above this level, then Director Casey will have to make that decision for me.

PRESIDENT: I fully understand, please continue.

The CARETAKER: It took the EBE spaceship nine (9) of our months to travel the 40 [38.42] light-years. Now, as you can see, that would mean the EBE spaceship traveled faster than the speed of light. But, this is where it gets really technical. Their spaceships can travel through a form of "space tunnels" that gets them from point "A" to point "B" faster without having to travel at the speed of light. I cannot fully understand how they travel, but we have many top scientists who can understand their concept.

PRESIDENT: Well, I certainly couldn't understand the science in that. Is it a black hole?

The CARETAKER: Mr President, something like that, but much more complicated.

PRESIDENT: Do they get here ... no never mind, please continue. [unintelligible]

WM CASEY: Mr President, I can assure we know how they do it, but we can't do it.

PRESIDENT: OK. (several speaking at once)

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Both U.S. intelligence agent codenamed "Falcon" and Betty and Barney Hill describe the Ebens and their homeplanet:

Please Note: This report was originally published in "Focus" magazine edited by Bill Moore,1991.

REPORTER: "And what planet do the EBENS "aliens" come from?"

INTELLIGENCE SOURCE CODENAMED "FALCON" (Rick Doty in this case): "(From) the Zeta Reticuli star group ... (there are) two suns together."

Q: "And is this the primary source of the alien visitors here?"

A: "Ahh, to the best of my knowledge, yes."

Q: "How long does the trip from Zeta Reticuli take....?"

A: "They can... do it in about 91 days."

Q: "How big is their home planet?"

A: "(The) EBEN'S planet is similar to Earth, but the air is a bit thinner and contains a higher proportion of Argon and Helium. Also, the average temperature is a bit cooler especially in the northern part of their planet. They like our high mountain regions where the air is thinner and the temperature is cooler. They can't stand a lot of heat.

Q: "Now, can we get into describing the physical conditions and characteristics of the aliens?"

A: "(They are) creature(s) about 3'4" to 3'8" tall. Their eyes are extremely large, almost insect style (with) a couple of different inner lids....Their skin structure is extremely ahhh... it's a very elastic skin, and hard. Probably hardened from their sun."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The above was excerpted from interviews conducted with U.S. intelligence agent codenamed "Falcon" in March, 1984 and February, 1987.

Evidence gleaned from both the Betty and Barney Hill abduction case and from intelligence sources (including "Falcon", above) has suggested that the home of at least one group of supposed alien 'visitors" to Earth may well be the Zeta Reticuli system. They are a pair of companion stars (two stars traveling together in the same direction at the same speed as a wide-binary system) located some 39.4 to 39.5 light-years distant.

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Edited November 28, 2010 by AH-64Apache

[lost_shaman]

i believe that most UFO's are our technology including the orb types. Its the same view of mine that modern man doesnt give the intelligence credit to earlier civilizations. Just as the public doesnt give the black project scientists or whomever credit for advances in aerospace technology.

There are reports that date back in time that are consistent with what people report today, as the MoD "Condign" report states and I'll paraphrase, these are consistent over time and still reported today so modern technology CAN NOT explain these consistent reports.

I agree with the "Condign" report on this.

Dont you think that building a very fast craft would be the way to go in warfare? Your right, humans couldnt take the g forces etc that go along with the way these craft move. This is why i believe most are unmanned. Think of the possibility of having a craft so fast that it could travel into space from say, The USA and go over Russia, descend to the upper atmosphere, drop a nuke and then have the ability to go straight up to space immediately and back home quickly. the craft could realistically be into space before the nuke even hits. Thus inhibiting the chance of being spotted and/or have the chance of being "chased" back to its point of origin. This would be genius IMO as far as air warfare. This would also decline the need for ground troops thereby eliminating so many casualties to your own armed forces. Future wars will be primarily fought in this manner as it has already started with the various known drone-type crafts.

I'm sorry to say, but you've just described an ICBM minus the "flying" back home thing. An ICBM is a better weapon because it's much easier and cheaper to make an ICBM rocket engine than it is to make something that needs to fly back home!

As for UAV's they do a very different job. There is no comparison.

Edited November 28, 2010 by lost_shaman

[lost_shaman]

According to the alleged ET brief to Ronald Reagan the Ebens are able to travel to here from Zeta Reticuli starsystem (about 40 light years away) faster than speed of light.

Way back in time, about five years ago... I researched and produced a scientific paper that proved the "Ebens", I mean Science Fiction writers, didn't know much about the Zeta Reticuli system they were "writting" about in their science fiction experiment!

"lost_shaman; a member of AboveTopSecret.com"

Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread185069/pg48#pid1912489

[AH-64Apache]

Way back in time, about five years ago... I researched and produced a scientific paper that proved the "Ebens", I mean Science Fiction writers, didn't know much about the Zeta Reticuli system they were "writting" about in their science fiction experiment!

"lost_shaman; a member of AboveTopSecret.com"

Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread185069/pg48#pid1912489

How do you know they are science fiction writers? Who are these science fiction writers?

According to DaSilva and Foy, Zeta Reticuli starsystem is between 6 to 8 billion years old, and our own sun is only 5 billion years old:

The prime source of information about these stars is L. DaSilva and R. Foy's paper "Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli: A Puzzling Solar-Type Twin System", which can be found in Astronomy and Astrophysics (177, 204-216 <1987>). See, L. DaSilva and R. Foy.

The two stars, Zeta 1 and Zeta 2, are located in the southern constellation of Reticulum (the net) and are thus never visible to most of the northern hemisphere. Both are classed as old disk population II stars whose age is between six to eight billion years. There is every indication that both had a common origin and are part of a relatively near-by old moving group (or loose cluster) of stars which was first defined in 1958 and is known as the Zeta Hercules group. Zeta 1 Reticuli is separated from Zeta 2 Reticuli by at least 367 billion miles or about 100 times the Sun-Pluto distance. They may be even farther apart but, as just mentioned above, the available observations suggest they are moving through space together and are therefore physically associated. They probably require at least a 100,000 years to orbit around their common center of gravity.

Our own Sun has an estimated age of only five billion years and is classed spectroscopically as a G-0 star (yellow-orange dwarf). Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 are classed as G-2 and G-1 respectively, with luminosities ("L") of 0.8 and 1.02 (the Sun being L=l.O). This means that both Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 are very Sun-like and could well possess solar systems much like our own.

In their highly technical paper, DaSilva and Foy offer two very important conclusions about these stars which radically contradict earlier findings. These are that neither star is metal-deficient and that neither is a close binary (or double). Earlier evidence (published by Bonneau et al., 1980) identifying Zeta 2 as a very close binary turns out to have been mistaken (Bonneau and Foy, 1986).

The puzzling aspects of these "close" stars (One tenth of a light year apart) center around discoveries of higher than expected gravity and ultraviolet output when compared to their apparently normal metal content (i.e. not metal-poor). The ultraviolet excess and kinematic (proper motion and orbit) data suggest that these two stars belong to the old population II stars as mentioned earlier; yet the apparent high gravity figure seems more typical of an unevolved, metal-poor condition. Since DaSilva and Foy's work resulted in strong confirmation of a Sun-like (or "normal") metal content for these stars, they began to look elsewhere for an explanation of the gravity paradox. The answer came with the discovery of an apparent overabundance of helium (twice as much as our own Sun) in the stellar photospheres. This, when worked into the calculations, not only explained the high gravity, but also accounted for the observed problem of the stars' high ultraviolet output but relatively low overall luminosity. Another effect of the helium abundance would be to slow the process of stellar evolution across the main sequence.

Additionally, it should be noted that Zeta 1 was one of the first stars ever to be used as a solar analog by astronomers. What might these findings signify as far as Zeta 1 and/or Zeta 2 possessing planets with advanced intelligent life? Let's make a list of the strong points which support this idea:

(1) Both Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 are solar, or Sun-like stars. (If one imagines a spherical section of our galaxy with a radius of 50 light years and centered upon our Sun, only one star out of every eleven contained therein will have Sun-like characteristics.)

(2) The previous objection that one and perhaps both stars appeared to be close binaries has now been swept away. Stable planetary orbits in the so-called eco-zone (i.e. close enough to the central fire to produce conditions conducive to life) are more probable around single stars than in close binary systems.

(3) Both Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 have an average age of between six and eight billion years. This makes them from one to three billion years older than our Sun and suggests that any life on planets associated with them could be much further along in its evolutionary process than we are.

(4) In many reported UFO abduction cases, the "visitors" have been described as having a thick epidermis and multiple eyelids. This is precisely the sort of adaptation one would expect for creatures who evolved on a planet whose sun had a high ultraviolet output. Curiously enough, these characteristics were also reported by the intelligence source codenamed "Falcon" as early as 1981.

On the negative side, it must be admitted that there is no direct observational evidence of planets around either Zeta 1 or Zeta 2. However, a Canadian group reported that a Jupiter-sized planet appears to exist in orbit around Tau Ceti, a Sun-like star only about 11 light years away. Those readers familiar with the star map developed by Marjorie Fish based upon information from the Barney and Betty Hill UFO abduction case, will recall that Tau Ceti was identified as one of the stars on that map.

Since the original 1991 publication of this report tremendous strides have been made in the discovery of possible new solar systems and the detection of planets around other stars: With each passing day there is more and more data that appears to strengthen the idea that solar systems are quite common and very abundant.

For current efforts to find planets around Zeta1 and Zeta2 please see The Anglo-Australian Planet Search. Both Zeta1(HD20766) and Zeta2 (HD20807) are on their planet search list. Thanks to Dr Chris Tinney for this information who is/was the head astronomer at the Anglo-Australian Observatory.

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Edited November 28, 2010 by AH-64Apache