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archangel_josh

Who are the 144,000 spoken of in Revelation?

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Revelation speaks of 144,000 true believers in the end times, who have the seal of the Lamb's father in their forehead. They are taken away before the end comes.

Many people claim that these people will be the TRUE Christians in the endtimes.

But there are millions of people who think that they are these people. So who are the 144,000 people lucky enough to be saved from the end of the world?

-Josh

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Revelation speaks of 144,000 true believers in the end times, who have the seal of the Lamb's father in their forehead. They are taken away before the end comes.

Many people claim that these people will be the TRUE Christians in the endtimes.

But there are millions of people who think that they are these people. So who are the 144,000 people lucky enough to be saved from the end of the world?

-Josh

The Scriptures seem to indicate they are Christians from the Jewish race, 12,000 from each race.

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well the JW's think they make up that number ........... lol. minus Micheal Jackson.

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Posted (edited)

Im not sure where I got this idea but...I always thought they were decendants of the 12 tribes of Israel. Im sure I got it from the scriptures, and maybe from other things Ive read, I just cant quote exact locations.

Edited by MirrorImage

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The Scriptures seem to indicate they are Christians from the Jewish race, 12,000 from each race.

So people who are of the Jewish race who become Christians. Surely there are more than 144,000 of them throughout the world!!!!

And what of all of the other Christians? The millions of them? They are to be left behind too?

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So people who are of the Jewish race who become Christians. Surely there are more than 144,000 of them throughout the world!!!!

And what of all of the other Christians? The millions of them? They are to be left behind too?

the world was much smaller when that was written, the author never considered that the world would grow. At least thats my explination

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Im not sure where I got this idea but...I always thought they were decendants of the 12 tribes of Israel. Im sure I got it from the scriptures, and maybe from other things Ive read, I just cant quote exact locations.
MirrorI -- here is the Scripture:

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand
of all the tribes of the children of Israel
.

Verses five to eight name each of these tribes.

You may notice that one tribe is not included, which has caused many different speculations. :)

Karlis

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So people who are of the Jewish race who become Christians. Surely there are more than 144,000 of them throughout the world!!!!
Josh, just wanted to mention a couple of points from your post: first, the 144,000 mentioned here are from twelve tribes of Israel, and Jews are only a fraction of those tribes. Reason I mention this is because most people confuse Jews with the tribes of Israel. As an example Texans are Americans, but not all Americans are Texans.

Secondly, the 12,000 from each of the mentioned tribes are a sort of "select few" and do not include all the peoples of those tribes.

And what of all of the other Christians? The millions of them? They are to be left behind too?
The answer to that is in the verse that follows the naming of the 144,000

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo,
a great multitude
, which no man could number,
of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues
, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Regards,

Karlis

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It was my belief that this was a mistranslation only taken seriously by the Jehovah Witnesses. The hebrew language had no term for a mathmatical infinate and the verse in question uses a mathmatically HUGE number for people in that day

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So people who are of the Jewish race who become Christians. Surely there are more than 144,000 of them throughout the world!!!!

And what of all of the other Christians? The millions of them? They are to be left behind too?

Actually, in the next couple verses after the mention of the 144,000, there is mentioned a great crowd who is worhipping and glorifying God. So, obviously that 144,000 aren't the only believers mentioned who deserve salvation, which is something I usually argued with JW's about. Turns out that the JW's don't believe they are all of the 144,000, just some of them are, and a great many more of them are part of the great crowd mentioned after the 144,000.

I was always taught that the 144,000 is supposed to be from the 12 churches the 12 deciples supposedly started, but I honestly don't know and I don't think it matters in this day and age. Who would now know whether or not they are even descended from that sort of thing? I think the 144,000 are selected for a certain reason, but that a great many more will also be saved and that number can not be known until the end. Personally, I believe the 144,000 will be taken to heaven, for whatever reasons God has in mind for them, and the rest of the great crowd inherits the new earth.

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I'll stick to what most scholars think - like so ....

James Kelhoffer, an assistant professor of theological studies at Saint Louis University:

"Many people who have interpreted the rich symbolism and mythology of [Revelation] have read into it to reflect on a world cataclysm within their lifetime. It greatly misunderstands ancient Jewish and Christian prophets who always talk about apocalypses within their own time, not several centuries hence.

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Actually, in the next couple verses after the mention of the 144,000, there is mentioned a great crowd who is worhipping and glorifying God. So, obviously that 144,000 aren't the only believers mentioned who deserve salvation, which is something I usually argued with JW's about. Turns out that the JW's don't believe they are all of the 144,000, just some of them are, and a great many more of them are part of the great crowd mentioned after the 144,000.

I was always taught that the 144,000 is supposed to be from the 12 churches the 12 deciples supposedly started, but I honestly don't know and I don't think it matters in this day and age. Who would now know whether or not they are even descended from that sort of thing? I think the 144,000 are selected for a certain reason, but that a great many more will also be saved and that number can not be known until the end. Personally, I believe the 144,000 will be taken to heaven, for whatever reasons God has in mind for them, and the rest of the great crowd inherits the new earth.

And what of the Children? the Pure and innocent Children, surely they would be worthy, and at what age would be the cutoff point, (The too Tall for the Ride) what of all the Children?

Pavot

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And here's the biggest problem. The twelve tribes virtually vanished after centuries of invasions and conquest. Ask any modern Jew which tribe he came from. He will laugh at you in your face, unless he really believes that he is descended from Cohanim, or the tribe of priests.

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the world was much smaller when that was written, the author never considered that the world would grow. At least thats my explination

But isn't the Bible the word of God? Isn't it considered to be perfect? Therefore such a mistake would never happen. (I'm not a christian, just being devil's advocate here)

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But isn't the Bible the word of God? Isn't it considered to be perfect? Therefore such a mistake would never happen. (I'm not a christian, just being devil's advocate here)

Because it isn't written by God, but written by man, to whom we know the be "perfectly" flawed.

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Posted (edited)

And here's the biggest problem. The twelve tribes virtually vanished after centuries of invasions and conquest. Ask any modern Jew which tribe he came from. He will laugh at you in your face, unless he really believes that he is descended from Cohanim, or the tribe of priests.

actually there are many who say they can trace their family lineage still to David. who knows.

Descendants of King David plan Israel reunion

Organization seeking to foster Jewish unity gathering Jews of 'Davidic lineage'

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=52450

Edited by Lt_Ripley

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So people who are of the Jewish race who become Christians. Surely there are more than 144,000 of them throughout the world!!!!

And what of all of the other Christians? The millions of them? They are to be left behind too?

Sorry, Josh, but again you are causing the question - how many books did you read in your life? Jews were the first Christians in Europe, then only the teaching was spread among their owners (as they all were Roman slaves after AD68 when Vespasio Flavius deported them from Judaea). The population of former Essenes (later - Christians, as Christ himself was an Essen from their headquarters in Nazareth) was nearly a quarter of all Jews living in Middle East! Christiaity is a Jewish sect, same as Islam (Mohammed was a graduate of Damascus ieshiva, a Jewish religious school!). In some sense we, Europeans, are all Jews, as we follow one of their main sect (or come from it one way or another). Unlike Pharisees and Sadducee Essenes were never in power, but they were outnumbering the other Judaic sects for sure.

Mind you, in Hebrew "Israel" means "a gift from God", because he WAS a gift (read the book called Bible), what "Rael" means in Hebrew you can find out visiting any nearby synagogue, so the similar sounding between Israelites-Raelites has no divine sense at all, don't keep illusions on this matter please.

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Revelation speaks of 144,000 true believers in the end times, who have the seal of the Lamb's father in their forehead. They are taken away before the end comes.

Many people claim that these people will be the TRUE Christians in the endtimes.

But there are millions of people who think that they are these people. So who are the 144,000 people lucky enough to be saved from the end of the world?

-Josh

I try to keep an open mind to religious teachings only because I believe there is some merit hidden within man's politics of faith (religion). However, it appears to have been proven that this fate you speak of is false. Destiny begins with choice NOT fate.

If you truly believe in "revelation" then understand what has been proven. Then go from there.

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The matter has always been evident to me that the 144,000 (12 x 12,000) is representative of the people of God - a very large, yet ultimately finite number of people.

I take this reasoning on the basis of understanding the symbolic nature of Revelation, and in particular the use of numbers within that text (the numbers 4, 7 and 12 feature prominently - each of which is important to ancient Hebrew society). This use of symbolic devices is a common occurrence within texts similar to Revelation (the book of Daniel, for example). Numbers (and multiples of that number) are highly symbolic - the number 12 is often used in Hebrew literature as representative of the people of God (the 12 Tribes of Israel being a physical manifestation of that symbolism). The "12,000" is an obviously large number, multiplying the symbolic number 12 by a factor of 1000 (not an insignificant number in its own right - with various prophecies based around a 1000 year reign). Considering the population numbers at the time of writing, 12,000 x 12 tribes would have been a significantly large number.

The implications are clear on this passage (at least as far as I can tell) - to restate the opening hypothesis, it represents the entire people of God; it is indeed a very large number, but since it is a finite number, it indicates that not all people will be present as part of that people. It is not an indication that God has set a limit of a certain number of people who will enter into His Kingdom or receive special rewards or any such thing - it is far broader than that.

Just a thought to consider :)

Regards, PA

* This commentary is presented as an opinion based on the Bible and does not in any way represent other people's opinions on the Creator of the Universe. Any similarity to the views and opinions of other UM-members either living or dead is purely coincidental and should not be seen as anything more than a biblically based opinion!

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The way I always understood it, the 144,000 will remain on earth, (after the church is gone) sealed and protected by God during the great tribulation. And along with the 2 witnesses, would be a light to the world, and the last chance for unbelievers to repent, and refuse the mark of the beast.

Just a side note, the levites(sp?) have been identified through DNA. Some have already been selected to run the yet to be third temple.

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Regards, PA

* This commentary is presented as an opinion based on the Bible and does not in any way represent other people's opinions on the Creator of the Universe. Any similarity to the views and opinions of other UM-members either living or dead is purely coincidental and should not be seen as anything more than a biblically based opinion!

:lol: poor ole PA.having to post that in many posts.......bright red and all.......I am superstitious in wrting in red...its said to be bad luck lol..........but I FULLY understand why you are posting it LOL :P you may as well stick it in your signature lol.........(ehh but in pink lol)

But isn't the Bible the word of God? Isn't it considered to be perfect? Therefore such a mistake would never happen. (I'm not a christian, just being devil's advocate here)

I don't think christians that follow the bible consider it to be a perfect document......they are well aware it is written by man...........therefor making it not so perfect so to speak....its a book to be used as guidence

well the JW's think they make up that number ........... lol. minus Micheal Jackson.

:lol: ha ha this made me laugh..minus Micheal Jackson LMAO good call Ripley ha ha too funny

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:lol: poor ole PA.having to post that in many posts.......bright red and all.......I am superstitious in wrting in red...its said to be bad luck lol..........but I FULLY understand why you are posting it LOL :P you may as well stick it in your signature lol.........(ehh but in pink lol)
:rofl: Making such a caveat is the only way to be sure people won't respond with "but it's just your opinion". I suppose I could put it in my sig, but not all my posts are about Christianity, and not all of them represent a Christian world view - it would be misleading to add a signature response to say that everything I say comes from a biblical point of view, it's helpful just to slap it in where it is needed.

I might take you up on the whole colour thing though. Maybe I'll change colours every once in a while to avoid things getting boring. Red is rather in your face :P

Regards,

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:lol: poor ole PA.having to post that in many posts.......bright red and all.......I am superstitious in wrting in red...its said to be bad luck lol..........but I FULLY understand why you are posting it LOL :P you may as well stick it in your signature lol.........(ehh but in pink lol)

I don't think christians that follow the bible consider it to be a perfect document......they are well aware it is written by man...........therefor making it not so perfect so to speak....its a book to be used as guidence

:lol: ha ha this made me laugh..minus Micheal Jackson LMAO good call Ripley ha ha too funny

Hi B's Mom -- pardon me for asking, but how does your post relate to the OP?

Just curious as to why you posted this, ^_^

Karlis

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Hi MirrorI, your links show some of the many different opinions that exist about the possible meanings of the 144,000. :tu:

The more I read about the many and varied 'opinions' the less I'm convinced that anyone today can understand the symbols of this scenario.

Interesting to speculate, of course, :)

Karlis

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