Was Hitler Autistic?

[Supergladiator]

Professor Michael Fitzgerald found that Hitler, among others, was autistic. Can you agree with that? What is your position and experiences with ADULTS suffering from high functioning autistic or Aspergers syndrome, are you able to recognize them as such?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler&..._medical_health (pag.25)

http://books.google.nl/books?id=3zXaZqtt1R...lt&resnum=1

Corrected a peculiarity of English expression: Professor Fitzgerald found that Hitler displayed autistic psychopathy. Thus, we say that in Professor Fitzgerald's opinion, Hitler was autistic. Please do not ever use the word psychopath unless you are certain that you are using it correctly, and that your meaning will be readily understood by all who read your writing.

Edited May 27, 2009 by eight bits

[GreytMuse]

Professor Michael Fitzgerald found that Hitler, among others, was an Autistic psychopath. Can you agree with that? What is your position and experiences with ADULTS suffering from high functioning autistic or Aspergers syndrome, are you able to recognize them as such?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler&..._medical_health (pag.25)

http://books.google.nl/books?id=3zXaZqtt1R...lt&resnum=1

I'll have a go...

A quote from your Wiki link: Fitzgerald has claimed that many famous people in history had Asperger's, so some doubt the validity of his (posthumous) diagnoses. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. When you're an autism expert, it's highly likely you'll label people as such. All of it is pure speculation when you haven't even met the person you are "diagnosing".

The link to the book "Is There a Link Between Autism and Creativity?" -- again all speculation on dead people.

Do I know an adult with autism? Yes -- he has Asperger's and he is an extremely famous eye surgeon.

I also know teens and children with autism, across the spectrum. What is the point of your OP?

[+HerNibs]

removed quote and discussion of some removed matter

Now, my question -

When you bring up autism, lucifer and hitler, how are you linking them together?

HN

Edited May 27, 2009 by eight bits
to remove quote

[Supergladiator]

I'll have a go...

A quote from your Wiki link: Fitzgerald has claimed that many famous people in history had Asperger's, so some doubt the validity of his (posthumous) diagnoses. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. When you're an autism expert, it's highly likely you'll label people as such. All of it is pure speculation when you haven't even met the person you are "diagnosing".

The link to the book "Is There a Link Between Autism and Creativity?" -- again all speculation on dead people.

Do I know an adult with autism? Yes -- he has Asperger's and he is an extremely famous eye surgeon.

I also know teens and children with autism, across the spectrum. What is the point of your OP?

I’m interesting in find out how everybody experience that. And if they are easy to be recognized, but, mostly I’m interested on the ones on a combination of Autism and psychopathy.

[eight bits]

I have set aside several posts for bickering.

There has been some reasonable discussion. That has been left on the board.

It is unhelpful to remind the OP about remarks he has made in another thread. If, as, and when he makes any remark that is contrary to site policy in this thread, then you all know where the report button is.

The moderating team is aware of the situation, and if this thread goes the way of the other one, then it will be closed.

[GreytMuse]

There is actually a fair bit of research on the topic - one study:

------------------------------

http://eprints.ucl.ac.uk/11879/

Rogers, J. and Viding, E. and Blair, R.J. and Frith, U. and Happé, F. (2006)

Psychological Medicine

Autism spectrum disorder and psychopathy: shared cognitive underpinnings or double hit?

Background. We measured psychopathic traits in boys with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) selected for difficult and aggressive behaviour. We asked (i) whether psychopathic tendencies can be measured in ASD independent of the severity of autistic behaviour; (ii) whether individuals with ASD with callous–unemotional (CU) traits differ in their cognitive profile from those without such traits; and (iii) how the cognitive data from this study compare with previous data of youngsters with psychopathic tendencies. Method. Twenty-eight ASD boys were rated on psychopathic tendencies, autistic traits and a range of cognitive measures assessing mentalizing ability, executive functions, emotion recognition and ability to make moral–conventional distinction.

Our results indicate that psychopathic tendencies are not related to severity of ASD. In addition, such tendencies do not seem to be related to core autistic cognitive deficits...

-----------------------------

I'd encourage you to go off-board and read some of the scientific articles that deal with this issue.

[Supergladiator]

The FBI has probably lots of information about cases of individuals on this field, the question is, if those subjects can’t do anything about theirs doings, how can the society deal with it, and what is the origin of it, so we can find a preventive method. From that point will all crimes committed by such persons not be imputed, but then it will be like excusing a tiger for attacking its prey.

I wonder how deep can I get on this subject, as it concerns a very fine tune subject. But if to talk about autistic psychopathy becomes a taboo then we will never find a way out of it. Maybe is a good idea starting by Hitler.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

The FBI has probably lots of information about cases of individuals on this field, the question is, if those subjects can’t do anything about theirs doings, how can the society deal with it, and what is the origin of it, so we can find a preventive method. From that point will all crimes committed by such persons not be imputed, but then it will be like excusing a tiger for attacking its prey.

I wonder how deep can I get on this subject, as it concerns a very fine tune subject. But if to talk about autistic psychopathy becomes a taboo then we will never find a way out of it. Maybe is a good idea starting by Hitler.

I think being a psychopath is the important issue here. what would autism have to do with it?

[Purplos]

^ I fail to understand that as well.

Not that I'm some psychologist, but psychosis and autism seem very different to me. I'm sure it is possible for people to have both disorders, but I can't really imagine how they would be linked.

[Supergladiator]

There is actually a fair bit of research on the topic - one study:

------------------------------

http://eprints.ucl.ac.uk/11879/

Rogers, J. and Viding, E. and Blair, R.J. and Frith, U. and Happé, F. (2006)

Psychological Medicine

Autism spectrum disorder and psychopathy: shared cognitive underpinnings or double hit?

Background. We measured psychopathic traits in boys with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) selected for difficult and aggressive behaviour. We asked (i) whether psychopathic tendencies can be measured in ASD independent of the severity of autistic behaviour; (ii) whether individuals with ASD with callous–unemotional (CU) traits differ in their cognitive profile from those without such traits; and (iii) how the cognitive data from this study compare with previous data of youngsters with psychopathic tendencies. Method. Twenty-eight ASD boys were rated on psychopathic tendencies, autistic traits and a range of cognitive measures assessing mentalizing ability, executive functions, emotion recognition and ability to make moral–conventional distinction.

Our results indicate that psychopathic tendencies are not related to severity of ASD. In addition, such tendencies do not seem to be related to core autistic cognitive deficits...

-----------------------------

I'd encourage you to go off-board and read some of the scientific articles that deal with this issue.

My concerning is not to establish by definition under which category a psychopath is classified. If autism is involved or not, in combination with psychopathy is unknown by adults. I agree with the Hitler’s combination, and as I said before, is about adults and not about children or boys. The therapy use to correct autism at an early stage do not ’cure’ the patient, it only compensates under a camouflage and it is unknown how its develops at a later age.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

My concerning is not to establish by definition under which category a psychopath is classified. If autism is involved or not, in combination with psychopathy is unknown by adults. I agree with the Hitler’s combination, and as I said before, is about adults and not about children or boys. The therapy use to correct autism at an early stage do not ’cure’ the patient, it only compensates under a camouflage and it is unknown how its develops at a later age.

Negative Rony

http://www.disability-resource.com/Autism/...-in-adults.html

The issue is psychopathic behavior. Not Autism. I ask again... Why are you concerned with identifying autism, and what would that have to do with Hitler?

Edit.. Cause I can't spell lol

Edited May 27, 2009 by Dr. Peter Venkman

[Supergladiator]

No, the issue here is still, or if you agree or disagree about Hitler being that, both, and I don’t see why there is evasion from the point. Besides that I do not force you to answer as you do with huge capitals, you are free to do so. There are to many questions unanswered. Is not about discriminating people by having a kind of mental sickness, they can’t help that. It is about, how we deal with it, in which cases do we have to protect some from others, what about the statistics, where are they. The reason to chose about grow up people is because there is practically no information to be found. Also the degree is essential. The hard part on this subject is the inability to self diagnosis, and what it makes it worse too is the projection on others. We my as well be one of them without knowing it. Imagine a future world where a ‘healthy’ minority is left, something like ‘the body snatchers’ or some kind of horror, vampire, zombie nightmare. Or imagine a world like Matrix, equilibrium, or idiocrasy or even like in the past, about 400 years a go, anyone being different (better) then the mob was considered a witch and got executed without a proper trial. Nock nock, is there any one able to level with me, or is no one left from the hippie time able to breakthrough the wall?

Edited May 27, 2009 by Rony

[Lars Johansson]

There is an overrepresentatiion of racists among Apergers and i believe you will likely find the not so nice ones of the Aspergers in nazi groups and other criminal groups. Nicer ones may be over represented in cults. Other than that I don't see where this discussion is going. There is NPD, borderline etc, with better data on psychopaths and the likes, at least right now. All Apergers are not racists, but racist talk whenever appearing should be looked at as part of the handicap, though, when it fits with the rest of the criteria for a proper diagnose. Autism is very severe and very often they are menatlly challenged. Asperger should not be mentioned in the same context"in my opinion. There is very big difference between an eye surgeeon and an autistic person who is always mentally about two years of age. It's not just the development, but the way they differ also.

[Supergladiator]

hei Lars,

I really appreciate, that finally, some one seriously gets into the subject.

Do you mean that among people with AS many of them are racist?

Where do you get this statistic information from?

How come, if this all is a fact, that those people are racist or why are they attracted to become that, as we know, that to be racist is against the law, and if so, they can’t be charged with that. Strange situation as if theoretically no one can be hold responsible for committing a crime do to mental inabilities, and the ’normal’ ones as well want do that, so it will be wrong to punished any one with mental disabilities, even in cases of serial killers? But how do we differences the AS with or without racist tendencies, and is it born or learned?

There is a large gamma of autism, the subject here is concentrated on HFA/AS which is consider to be the same or similar and not to be mix up with the classic autism.

At the area where I’m living seams to be more frequently cases then elsewhere of autism do to Intel. But it does not explain the source of other cases.

[GreytMuse]

There is an overrepresentatiion of racists among Apergers and i believe you will likely find the not so nice ones of the Aspergers in nazi groups and other criminal groups. Nicer ones may be over represented in cults.

I cannot find any correlation to this statement of yours. Please cite your source. I can only find many people saying that:

...people with Asperger syndrome tend to make very loyal friends, are generally free from sexism or racism... link another similar link

I am not an educational diagnostician, psychologist, or other professional who deals with the diagnosis of autism. I do, however, think that making sweeping derogatory statements about a group of people is to be avoided. It only adds to the inaccurate stereotypes that continue to do harm to a vulnerable group of people.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

No, the issue here is still, or if you agree or disagree about Hitler being that, both, and I don’t see why there is evasion from the point. Besides that I do not force you to answer as you do with huge capitals, you are free to do so. There are to many questions unanswered. Is not about discriminating people by having a kind of mental sickness, they can’t help that. It is about, how we deal with it, in which cases do we have to protect some from others, what about the statistics, where are they. The reason to chose about grow up people is because there is practically no information to be found. Also the degree is essential. The hard part on this subject is the inability to self diagnosis, and what it makes it worse too is the projection on others. We my as well be one of them without knowing it. Imagine a future world where a ‘healthy’ minority is left, something like ‘the body snatchers’ or some kind of horror, vampire, zombie nightmare. Or imagine a world like Matrix, equilibrium, or idiocrasy or even like in the past, about 400 years a go, anyone being different (better) then the mob was considered a witch and got executed without a proper trial. Nock nock, is there any one able to level with me, or is no one left from the hippie time able to breakthrough the wall?

No, I don't think Hitler was autistic. I know a few HF Autistics, my cousin being one of them. I don't see Hitler displaying those same tendencies. As i've shown in the previous link as just one example, Autism is documented in adulthood. Professionals know how to spot it. It's their job. self diagnosis, even if you are a doctor, is a bad idea Rony. Once again, Why are you concerned about it. HF Autistics are taught to function normally within society in most cases. What's your problem with that Rony?

* snip *

It would be best, as it always is, to discuss the topic and not to discuss the poster. That you, Doc, disagree with the poster is, I think, amply clear to all readers.

Edited May 27, 2009 by eight bits
removed some personal remarks

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

No, I don't think Hitler was autistic. I know a few HF Autistics, my cousin being one of them. I don't see Hitler displaying those same tendencies. As i've shown in the previous link as just one example, Autism is documented in adulthood. Professionals know how to spot it. It's their job. self diagnosis, even if you are a doctor, is a bad idea Rony. Once again, Why are you concerned about it. HF Autistics are taught to function normally within society in most cases. What's your problem with that Rony?

* snip *

It would be best, as it always is, to discuss the topic and not to discuss the poster. That you, Doc, disagree with the poster is, I think, amply clear to all readers.

No it's not. you keep editing my posts!!!!!

You cannot honestly believe that his proposition of such a world should be taken seriously can you?

[greggK]

Professor Michael Fitzgerald found that Hitler, among others, was autistic. Can you agree with that? What is your position and experiences with ADULTS suffering from high functioning autistic or Aspergers syndrome, are you able to recognize them as such?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler&..._medical_health (pag.25)

http://books.google.nl/books?id=3zXaZqtt1R...lt&resnum=1

Corrected a peculiarity of English expression: Professor Fitzgerald found that Hitler displayed autistic psychopathy. Thus, we say that in Professor Fitzgerald's opinion, Hitler was autistic. Please do not ever use the word psychopath unless you are certain that you are using it correctly, and that your meaning will be readily understood by all who read your writing.

What I believe is the cause of Autism is too much heavy metal content in the body. As for Hitler being autistic, that is possible toward the end of his life. He did commit suicide by probably drinking a concoction of formulas developed in his concentration camps, you know. The same type of formulas that gave him his extraordinary appeal to the masses. But him and his lover wanted to go out in a blaze of glory. All of the scientists that operated during the time of Hitler were making concoctions and formulas and trying these formulas out on the sheep in the pen. It was called Eugenics. Our pharmaceutical industry is modeled after that.

Yes, Hitler was highly drugged and they might have found out a way to put radioactive material in a liquid and drink it and make yourself appear bright.

Immunizations of children make them autistic. In fact, vaccines have so much heavy metal in them as to make anybody autistic.

[Supergladiator]

Is hard to be impartial, but can we deny the facts, I know a very sweet and kindly person with autism, if I ask him how many churches, museums, or what ever public building he can tell me with high accuracy how many windows they have, at what year they wore build etc. anything he sees will stay there for ever, even he will remember the exact date and minute from long ago meetings or visits, is like a living data bank, he is always very friendly and seams happy too. To be autistic has nothing to do with evilness or crime. The question reminds about the other cases, the dark side, wore they not able to resist evilness that someone putted in them, or wore they born as such. The example of Hitler may give an answer to that.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Is hard to be impartial, but can we deny the facts, I know a very sweet and kindly person with autism, if I ask him how many churches, museums, or what ever public building he can tell me with high accuracy how many windows they have, at what year they wore build etc. anything he sees will stay there for ever, even he will remember the exact date and minute from long ago meetings or visits, is like a living data bank, he is always very friendly and seams happy too. To be autistic has nothing to do with evilness or crime. The question reminds about the other cases, the dark side, wore they not able to resist evilness that someone putted in them, or wore they born as such. The example of Hitler may give an answer to that.

Are you suggesting that autistics are more succeptable to evil? If so, what is this evil you're speaking of?

[WoIverine]

If autistic is the new "crazier than bat ****", then yes, he was autistic. lol

[Supergladiator]

Are you suggesting that autistics are more succeptable to evil? If so, what is this evil you're speaking of?

It is more like they my be easier to be influence then others, and they will have less abilities to make better choices, maybe they are just more vulnerable, needing more protection against evilness around them. That my be the key to every one but even more for the weakens. The point here is not how to protect the young ones, by prevention, but what the situation is with the ones who deed not had that chance and is already to late to teach them goodness and kindness.

About the amount of evilness an degree by one or other group, I don’t really know, but I do want to find out.

[eight bits]

I think the OP may wish to take some time to reflect on the scientific evidence offered in this thread, as was suggested by one of the posters.

Perhaps at a later time, a better grounded and more focused discussion of autism would be possible.

But, for now, I believe that this thread has served its purpose, and I am closing it.

~ closed ~