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mcjolley85

Relative Happiness VS. Absolute happiness

17 posts in this topic

We all "seek" happiness in different ways. Right? Why can't we just be happy with what is? This is a topic I love to discuss, because money always gets involved and People in a General sense are SO sure that money creates happiness. Relatively, yes but isn't it fleating, like any other thing outside of ourselves. Do you think it's possible to find a Happiness with-in yourself, at your current state, no matter what obstacle or struggles come your way? Relative is only momentary, while absolute is everlasting? Which would you prefer? I DO believe happiness cannot be found outside yourself.

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Money gives you choices that the poor do not have. You can also donate money to worthy causes to feel good.

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Absalute happiness ? wow never heard of that befor. However I'm content.

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Yes, I do believe one can be happy regardless of circumstance. I think it all stems from having a love and respect for oneself. Or something like that. :innocent:

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Posted (edited)

Yes, I do believe one can be happy regardless of circumstance. I think it all stems from having a love and respect for oneself. Or something like that. :innocent:

Can't disagree there but happiness is an individual thing as what makes me happy might not be what others think is happy and vs versa. It's a relative question with no real answer.

Edited by The Silver Thong

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Posted (edited)

Can happiness be unconditional?

Can a person live there entire lives just being happy no matter what happens, that not meaning they do not cry or have problems, but that, no matter what happens, in the end they simply appreciate the experience.

Sure that happens all the time. It seems almost necessary out of respect and all that but as well faced with the experience of death (and so many questions) and ones experiences in life.

People inherently try to find order in chaos and it makes them happy when they find it (like lost keys) and as to if a person appreciates the fact they are alive? There are those who would respond in the negative though, I doubt most, at the last moments, would not concur with what is above. With respect to those who do feel otherwise my impressions is the term Psychosis would be Politically correct although somehow I feel that, there would be other opinions.

In the New Testament the Holy Spirit is the epitome and Absolute Happiness though some Scholars would suggest that in the Old Testament the Angel of Death in the story of Moses was actually the Holy Spirit. There are people in this world who treat pain in the context of pleasure; the relationship actually permeates society from a certain context. That in fact such a phenomenon is fundamental to society (though not explicit) points to the conclusion that in fact, even in the cases where hate fills the mind of those near death? Relatively speaking they are still kindred.

Unconditional Love is an experience of Unconditional Peace and Happiness; these today, are commonly more felt in contact with ones siblings and spouse, how it best is reflected in society, today, is in respect to law enforce-

ment though there are issues (like the elderly lady in the US who recently got shot by a tazer, by a young officer and obviously more).

All things taken into consideration I feel that most of us appreciate the fact we are alive and we are happy about that.

Any thoughts?

Edited by Triad

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As someone on meds for a number of mental problems, I honestly don't know "happiness" can ever be found, for me - I can't even be content, let alone happy, with or without money, but lots of money sure would make it a damn lot easier to brood.

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Posted (edited)

As someone on meds for a number of mental problems, I honestly don't know "happiness" can ever be found, for me - I can't even be content, let alone happy, with or without money, but lots of money sure would make it a damn lot easier to brood.

Do you really feel that a Condo apartment in downtown Miami (across the street from the Miami Heat; basketball) across the street from the AAA, with a custom made Ferrari (I mean the car has the Ferrari Symbol but while it is similar, it is clearly different) in the parking lot, would make a difference today in relation to reproducing with a woman, that would absolutely result in a genetically superior child (or at least child, which actually and as a result could understand "Logic 101")?? There actually is a really cool mall on the same side of the street and of course there is the Miami Grand Prix and the fireworks on the 1st of January and the 4th of July from your balcony.

Brooding these days implies a liability unless of course you are in a third world country and related to the family in charge.

Any thoughts?

Edited by Triad

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is it not also true that as long as we are always wanting something more, something better, we will not be continuously happy. Seems we wasted alot of time waiting for certain things to happen to become happy. " oh ill be happy when i have more money" " ill be happier when i have a new car" Absolute happiness will never be had if we are always seeking and wanting....its a continuous cycle. right? unless you accept everything as is. How can we let external things , such as money control us? Even the most richest people arent satisfied as they are wanting more and expectiong happiness from those things. Wouldnt you rather have absolute happiness rather than always needing some shiney new toy to produce that for you?

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Posted (edited)

Say a Birthday party for a 5 years old boy or girl what are the odds that they would want to eat the whole cake by themselves and even if it makes them sick next year they will want to do the same thing.

Being Brad and Angelina could be fun but there is a difference between the needs of survival and wishes?

Back in the 80's I heard about a Psychiatrist who came from a very wealthy family, he went to some of the worst neighborhoods in New York and picked up about 10 Schizophrenics (five women and five men). Each of these individuals had because of there condition hit rock bottom. He had a private island and on it was the equivalent to a British Castle, he became there doctor arranged everything with the government and took them there.

The patients were afforded every amenity of British Royals a full staff was available to meet all there needs and the Doctor and his wife lived with them and worked with them as family.

It took about six or seven months but there hallucinations subsided, they began caring for themselves and in fact there recovery was really impressive (although that is all I heard about that it was a story someone told me).

As far as my own work yes the better off the parents of a child with problems are, the more likely that child as an adult, will stay in the system and get care.

In the not to distant future someone is going to find a way to clone a human heart without actually making a whole body (as well as most other organs), do you feel it would be fair to charge a fee?

Today we are cloning skin that way (ears) and skin is an organ, this new option of course comes with a fee. But with new organs life could be extended substantially for everyone, with no issue of organ failure due to rejection.

Any thoughts?

Edited by Triad

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In a perfect world, everythings free and life is everlasting, at least in one version. In this world, they are not but money can give you some comfort.

A lot of money would work great for me, it would make me very happy and I would be relieved.

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Posted (edited)

Most if not all of our parents did not pay for our inoculations because it makes us better able to work.

Money is ok but it is not really the answer to all our prayers, there are many species of life which collect things. Money pertains to a way for individuals to interact, like the courts or systems of voting.

The problems are incidences such as with George Bush 1st; he went into a supermarket as part of a promotion and was sincerely surprised when he saw a Laser Scanner was being used to determine the prices for items to

be purchased.

He was so far removed from the day to day lives of regular people it really surprised him.

Actually money is very ancient.

Any thoughts?

PS: There also exist estimates, that without the problems of the body the Brain could live 500 years.

KFC is getting more coverage for this Oprah stunt than they did when it was dicovered they grow headless chickens in a lab outside of Topeka. cp said: ...

Edited by Triad

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Money per se obviously has nothing to do with happiness. After all money has been round(pun intended) for only a very short part of human existence. Are we supposed to believe that no human was happy before money was invented.

Human happines is a state of mind which is dependent on many factors all of which find some commonality in humans but which also may vary considerably from human to human

For example i heard this week of a girl in africa who walked over 30 kilometers to school and 30 k's back every day. She was also the mother to two younger sisters. Their parents had died of aids. She was 17 years old They lived in a desert area The temp was about 3degrees celcius and the commentator was saying how his feet were freezing in boots and thick socks He looked down and the girl was wearing sandals and cotton socks.

And yet she was happy because she saw a future for herself and believed education would give her that future.

In revolutionary theory it is not actual conditions which cause revolutions but when a growing divide exists between expectations and realities.

So human happiness does not even depend on our conditions but on our perceptions and mindsets

It is true that most humans are happier when their basic physical and emotional needs are met. ThThose emotional needs may include(as someone else explained ) a need for freedom in their life.

Money can create freedom (although it can also create lack of freedom.) I have never been as free and liberated physically nad emotionally as when we lost all our posessions in a fire and had only the clothes we escaped in (and a few other items)

However once those basic human needs are met i dont think money can add much to actual happiness. Many other physical and psychological factors can increase our happiness far more than money. Those include . A sense of self worth and value. A sense that one is valuable to ones community. Loving the person that one is. Having others who love the person that one is. Having challenges in life. Having the ability to build ones personal and physical skills. A degree of social interaction with others(this can depend a lot on personality. My wife is happy to go without seeing other people for weeks at a time as long as she has me around the place)

A sense of place and space. This may be a house and yard, or being part of a tribe or group, or even a sporting club, but it defines your relationship to the place and space around you. There are probably lots more, but you get the picture.

Ultimately, happiness, like all sapient emotions, is a matter of choice. As a human i get to decide what emotions I chose to feel. In consequence I am in a state of near perpetual bliss, without the need for any drugs or any outside influence at all. It is simply a state i choose to be in. No one, and nothing external to me, has the power to make me feel unhappy if i chose not to be.

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This is a message I'd written to a friend here a few months back who had broken up with his girlfriend. I feel it sums up a certain perspective.

I feel that the world does hold happiness, and it is real. It's just impermanent, as you have said. It holds real sadness as well, which is impermanent too. Both of those, riding the crest of that wave and winding up in the trough are part of the same thing. Attachment to one or the other leads to suffering I think. These highs and lows are intrinsic to life as well. The life of a monk may be good for you, may not. I enjoy the crest of the wave and enjoy the trough as well... although not in the same sense. Only in that I know the next wave is coming and I know that it too will end. For me, the key is to realize this. Life is what it is. We can't change it. We can only change our reactions to it. If you're not a surfer.. go to the beach when you get a chance, early in the morning. What on earth are these cats doin' out here? It might be cold, might be storming. They are there for one thing. Waiting patiently for... that wave. A microcosm of our entire existence. Wave... trough... wave... trough... high... low... relationship... single... good day... bad day... suffering... life. Until... we finally get it. Enlightenment!

*hug*

Hang in there brother.

I call it the surfer analogy. Just don't get too attatched to the surfing either. One may not always be a surfer. Nor is Enlightenment the end or beginning, of anything.

There you go, from a certain perspective.

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I feel that suffering is an inevitable, inescapable and integral part of existence.

"To percieve is to suffer".

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The only way I believe anyone could be attain "absolute" happiness is if he/she was isolated from any outside influence. It is in our nature to envy, but the happiest man in the world would be a man living in a world in which he had nothing to want.

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That is an interesting point because in relation to a method ancient shamans use in training is voluntary self isolation (Jesus also did that in the desert). But truthful in new born children the "cones" in the eyes do not develop until a child is about two. url="http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/V/Vision.html"]cones[/url] have to do with our ability to see color and because of that they also apply to depth the [perception. Part of the reason for the "terrible two" may have to do with the elation over the loss of sense of isolation.

Now in that context one might argue that by voluntarily isolating oneself one is revisiting ones childhood and therefore reorienting oneself to what is really important but before anyone considers trying something like that you need to see a Doctor and be clear and honest about your plans.

Any thoughts?

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