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MeteoricErod

A reason we havent found life...

167 posts in this topic

I do believe that there is life on other planets. I refuse to believe that out of the billions of planets in the universe...we would be the only one to have life on it.

However, maybe the reason we havent found SPACE FARRING civilizations NEAR US is because there are none. I'm sure there's life elsewhere in the universe

but maybe they're not as advanced as we would think. They could be at the same level of intelligence as us humans or maybe they may be even more

primitive such as our early prehistoric ancestors.

Maybe life on other planets isn't a highly cultured civilization but maybe it's just "animals" with the intelligence of an ordinary dog which obviously don't have the intelligence to even leave their own atmosphere let alone travel great distances across the emptiness of space to locate other civilizations.

We wouldn't be able to detect life on a planet that has life with this level of intelligence unless we have super powerful telescopes that can pear through

the atmosphere and zoom in close enough to the surface that we can view such creatures...but it's highly unlikely.

I bet there are many more planets with "animalistic life" in the universe than there are space farring technological civilizations.

Of course, I'm sure there are highly intelligent beings somewhere in the cosmos but they sure aren't anywhere near us.

I dont know if I made any sense. I'm sure there are many other possible reasons as to why we havent made contact yet but I just

had this idea and thought I would share it with everyone.

Do you guys have any personal beliefs as to why we havent made contact yet????

Oh, and I'm new to the site so sorry if I messed up on something. Nice to meet you guys!!!

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I think your opinion is a valid one and you are most probably right in the sense that more planets are likely to have animalistic beings rather than fully fledged societies and super powers, my personal opinion goes a step further in that I fail to see why an alien race would even have the same concepts of civilization as we do, they would be likely to think in a completely different way and the history of their planets completely ..well alien to ours...I doubt they would have the same concept of society or of war or of curiosity. People assume that aliens visit Earth to study it or to satisfy their curiosity but it is entirely reasonable to suggest that they possibly don't care remotely what is on our planet, it's possible that that study and research is incmprehensible to them and that they do things which we could never even dream of or seem completely illogical to us.

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[...] "animals" with the intelligence of an ordinary dog which obviously don't have the intelligence [...]

off-topic That reminded me of Seinfeld's bit:

On my block, a lot of people walk their dogs, and I always see them walking along with their little poop bags, which to me is just the lowest function of human life. If aliens are watching this through telescopes, they're gonna think the dogs are the leaders. If you see two life forms, one of them's making a poop, the other one's carrying it for him, who would you assume was in charge?
link

Anyway, we still have no idea (and evidence) about lifeforms outside our globe...

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you've made complete sense in my eyes...there probably are some planets with just animals and no humanoid beings or however you wanna put it, but i do think we've been visited. I hate when people(not you) question, why would any advance civilization come here to study us?)...the same reason why us humans are going into space looking for other life, or even here on earth studying animals...i don't see what would be so hard to see in that, if we knew of a planet with uncivilized beings on it, i mean like cavemen, every single person on this planet would be curious...but this universe is so old, our technology is only bout 100 years of real advanced work, imagine beings thats been around for billions of years and have been into technology, think what things they can do...i think just because we have no hard evidence doesn't mean its not out there

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I do believe that there is life on other planets. I refuse to believe that out of the billions of planets in the universe...we would be the only one to have life on it.

However, maybe the reason we havent found SPACE FARRING civilizations NEAR US is because there are none. I'm sure there's life elsewhere in the universe

but maybe they're not as advanced as we would think. They could be at the same level of intelligence as us humans or maybe they may be even more

primitive such as our early prehistoric ancestors.

Maybe life on other planets isn't a highly cultured civilization but maybe it's just "animals" with the intelligence of an ordinary dog which obviously don't have the intelligence to even leave their own atmosphere let alone travel great distances across the emptiness of space to locate other civilizations.

We wouldn't be able to detect life on a planet that has life with this level of intelligence unless we have super powerful telescopes that can pear through

the atmosphere and zoom in close enough to the surface that we can view such creatures...but it's highly unlikely.

I bet there are many more planets with "animalistic life" in the universe than there are space farring technological civilizations.

Of course, I'm sure there are highly intelligent beings somewhere in the cosmos but they sure aren't anywhere near us.

I dont know if I made any sense. I'm sure there are many other possible reasons as to why we havent made contact yet but I just

had this idea and thought I would share it with everyone.

Do you guys have any personal beliefs as to why we havent made contact yet????

Oh, and I'm new to the site so sorry if I messed up on something. Nice to meet you guys!!!

I have come to the belief that there are no such things as space faring super advanced civilizations and instead put forward that the only life forms capable of not only unlocking FTL but surviving deep space travel are non biological.

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I have come to the belief that there are no such things as space faring super advanced civilizations and instead put forward that the only life forms capable of not only unlocking FTL but surviving deep space travel are non biological.

You do have a point...I've never thought of it like that. ^_^

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Do you guys have any personal beliefs as to why we havent made contact yet????

There are thousands of people who would disagree with that. We just lack the evidence for soild proof.

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I do believe that there is life on other planets. I refuse to believe that out of the billions of planets in the universe...we would be the only one to have life on it.

However, maybe the reason we havent found SPACE FARRING civilizations NEAR US is because there are none. I'm sure there's life elsewhere in the universe

but maybe they're not as advanced as we would think. They could be at the same level of intelligence as us humans or maybe they may be even more

primitive such as our early prehistoric ancestors.

Maybe life on other planets isn't a highly cultured civilization but maybe it's just "animals" with the intelligence of an ordinary dog which obviously don't have the intelligence to even leave their own atmosphere let alone travel great distances across the emptiness of space to locate other civilizations.

We wouldn't be able to detect life on a planet that has life with this level of intelligence unless we have super powerful telescopes that can pear through

the atmosphere and zoom in close enough to the surface that we can view such creatures...but it's highly unlikely.

I bet there are many more planets with "animalistic life" in the universe than there are space farring technological civilizations.

Of course, I'm sure there are highly intelligent beings somewhere in the cosmos but they sure aren't anywhere near us.

I dont know if I made any sense. I'm sure there are many other possible reasons as to why we havent made contact yet but I just

had this idea and thought I would share it with everyone.

Do you guys have any personal beliefs as to why we havent made contact yet????

Oh, and I'm new to the site so sorry if I messed up on something. Nice to meet you guys!!!

Nice to meet you too, Meteoric..

Nice post as well, one which illustrates some very rational thinking.

I am inclined to agree with you!

The universe is a very, very...very big place....

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You do have a point...I've never thought of it like that. ^_^

Glad to be of service.

Of course I can't say that this belief is how it is but it would explain things like why wouldn't an 'alien' life form want to make contact with us.

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I do like Dr. Kaku in the fact he tries to explain the complicated in a non complicated way. Maybe to simple at times but very good work on his part.

Your avi is just wrong :P

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The reason we haven't found life yet is because our technology isn't sophisticated enough to travel beyond our solar system. However, who is to say that sophisticated life hasn't found US?

Let's think about this for a second. We are just another fish in this huge universal pond. In fact, we are simply a cell which creates the fish residing in this pond. There are BILLIONS, if not... TRILLIONS of planets out there and most likely, they do contain life. It is arrogant of us to believe that we are the only ones in this universe with the ability to walk and talk as well as manipulate technologies. It is downright STUPID, for lack of a better word.

If, perse, these ETs that are supposedly visiting us actually exist... what if they are trying to find life as well? And the closest thing to their planet that contains life is us? Perhaps that is why they are visiting us.. they are interested in us.

I am appalled at how people can actually believe that we are the only living beings capable of manipulating sophisticated technology. Simply appalled...

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The reason we haven't found life yet is because our technology isn't sophisticated enough to travel beyond our solar system. However, who is to say that sophisticated life hasn't found US?

Let's think about this for a second. We are just another fish in this huge universal pond. In fact, we are simply a cell which creates the fish residing in this pond. There are BILLIONS, if not... TRILLIONS of planets out there and most likely, they do contain life. It is arrogant of us to believe that we are the only ones in this universe with the ability to walk and talk as well as manipulate technologies. It is downright STUPID, for lack of a better word.

If, perse, these ETs that are supposedly visiting us actually exist... what if they are trying to find life as well? And the closest thing to their planet that contains life is us? Perhaps that is why they are visiting us.. they are interested in us.

I am appalled at how people can actually believe that we are the only living beings capable of manipulating sophisticated technology. Simply appalled...

I never ruled out the possibility that there would be "living beings capable of manipulating sophisticated technology".

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Nice to meet you too, Meteoric..

Nice post as well, one which illustrates some very rational thinking.

I am inclined to agree with you!

The universe is a very, very...very big place....

Nice to meet you MID

:D

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I never ruled out the possibility that there would be "living beings capable of manipulating sophisticated technology".

:? Well, we can.

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:D Good to meet you "MeteoricErod" This is a grand place to post point of opinions.

"Never Never Say Never!" That was a Great Winston Churchill quote. His just ended in "Never Never Say Quit"

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:D Good to meet you "MeteoricErod" This is a grand place to post point of opinions.

"Never Never Say Never!" That was a Great Winston Churchill quote. His just ended in "Never Never Say Quit"

Haha!! Nice to meet you DONTEATUS!!! :D

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I do believe that there is life on other planets. I refuse to believe that out of the billions of planets in the universe...we would be the only one to have life on it.

However, maybe the reason we havent found SPACE FARRING civilizations NEAR US is because there are none. I'm sure there's life elsewhere in the universe

but maybe they're not as advanced as we would think. They could be at the same level of intelligence as us humans or maybe they may be even more

primitive such as our early prehistoric ancestors.

Maybe life on other planets isn't a highly cultured civilization but maybe it's just "animals" with the intelligence of an ordinary dog which obviously don't have the intelligence to even leave their own atmosphere let alone travel great distances across the emptiness of space to locate other civilizations.

We wouldn't be able to detect life on a planet that has life with this level of intelligence unless we have super powerful telescopes that can pear through

the atmosphere and zoom in close enough to the surface that we can view such creatures...but it's highly unlikely.

I bet there are many more planets with "animalistic life" in the universe than there are space farring technological civilizations.

Of course, I'm sure there are highly intelligent beings somewhere in the cosmos but they sure aren't anywhere near us.

I dont know if I made any sense. I'm sure there are many other possible reasons as to why we havent made contact yet but I just

had this idea and thought I would share it with everyone.

Do you guys have any personal beliefs as to why we havent made contact yet????

Oh, and I'm new to the site so sorry if I messed up on something. Nice to meet you guys!!!

you should read about the Fermi Paradox:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

it addresses a lot of these ideas

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Welcom to UM, MeteoricErod! Everyone has there opinion about aliens. Here's mine. I think there are all types of alien life forms in the universe, intelligent and primitive alike. If there are intelligent aliens visiting our planet, maybe they haven't made direct contact because we are a hostile race. Most of the time, we, as humans don't even understand eachother...so, many of us would not be able to understand or welcome advanced alien beings. Perhaps their elusive visits to our planet are the aliens way of treading lightly-something akin to the way humans approach wild animals on Earth. We don't just go barrelling into a lion's den and attempt to communicate. We'd either get our heads ripped off or we'd have to shoot to kill. Neither of which would serve our purpose, so we watch and study from a safe distance. I don't really mean to compare us to wild lions, but it's just an analogy. I hope my idea makes sense. It's just my own personal theory. Have fun posting on UM! :st

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Although I consider the possibility of "advanced" lifeforms visiting Earth to study us, I discount its probability. For one thing, it would be arrogant and hubristic to assume that we are the first "new" life observed by this race of aliens, or even the first new intelligent life. Having experienced first contacts before, easily potential catastrophic failures, they would be prepared to carefully observe us without letting us know for extended periods of time. To them, it might not even be certain that they want to interact with us. Maybe they've played that game, and now want to study what happens when an intelligent species lifts itself out of darkest ignorance and into spacefaring glory.

There's also the possibility that we are too insignificant to be noticed on a cosmic scale yet.

It is my belief that life is rather common in the universe, in varying forms. Bacterial or viral analogues to life would be most commonly seeded in the cosmos, with plant and animal analogues rarer but still very common. It is impossible to speculate on the prominence of sentient or technological species (human analogues, if you will) because no one knows the likelihood of sentience arising from a pre-sentient biological matrix. However, I suspect that in the cosmic timescale of our universe many sentients have lived, died, created, and destroyed. It just seems likely to me that most would never become galactic scaled civilizations, or even interstellar civilizations. Self destruction or extinction due to changes in the ecology or biosphere of the planet (disasters of varying sorts) seems more likely than the chance of becoming (nearly) permanently protected from outright extinction by the colonization of different solar systems (if one is even outright destroyed, at least another exists).

That said, a species that could cross the void could undoubtedly observe and study our pitifully primitive society's evolution without us ever being aware. Since there is no way to prove this alien-voyeur theory, it should not be considered fact, it is mere speculation.

Unfortunately, if we are to prove the existence of aliens, we must either discover irrefutable proof of their existence (such as bodies or ruins of spacecraft/colonies) or be introduced to them formally at their behest. First contact isn't really likely to be up to us, at least until we leave this solar system and begin interstellar exploration and colonization of exoplanets. Then we may discover less advanced sentients, but higher sentients would be less likely to be found (either because they weren't there or because they didn't want/need to be found).

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Welcom to UM, MeteoricErod! Everyone has there opinion about aliens. Here's mine. I think there are all types of alien life forms in the universe, intelligent and primitive alike. If there are intelligent aliens visiting our planet, maybe they haven't made direct contact because we are a hostile race. Most of the time, we, as humans don't even understand eachother...so, many of us would not be able to understand or welcome advanced alien beings. Perhaps their elusive visits to our planet are the aliens way of treading lightly-something akin to the way humans approach wild animals on Earth. We don't just go barrelling into a lion's den and attempt to communicate. We'd either get our heads ripped off or we'd have to shoot to kill. Neither of which would serve our purpose, so we watch and study from a safe distance. I don't really mean to compare us to wild lions, but it's just an analogy. I hope my idea makes sense. It's just my own personal theory. Have fun posting on UM! :st

Nice to meet you Lisavclarson!!!! You're opinion does make alot of sense and it's very well said. :D

I do believe there are many types of alien life out there as well. You're analogy really does help clear up your thoughts. :)

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Ok. My opinion about aliens.

Like several people said before, statistically is certain that there is life in the universe besides us.

I do believe as well that there is advanced civilizations out there. But i don't believe that they have visited us. Planets like ours (liquid water, little variation in temperature, stable orbit, etc) are the result of n variables that are very rare in the universe, according to astronomers that are trying to find planets similar to ours.

If by any chance an advanced civilization found this planet and were capable of getting here, they would colonize Earth. And i don't believe either that they did that in the past. If it was in a recent past (a few thousand years), there had to be clues. And there isn't. And no, the pyramids and such are not clues of extraterrestrial life. That level of technology is consistent why the civilizations that existed in those regions of the world.

Also an advanced life form would be by necessity a predator. The dominant species in an ecosystem is always a predator, and scientists concluded by now that life, here or in another planet, would have followed the same principles of evolution. I'm not saying that life would be the same that we see in our planet, by far, but would have had the same beginnings (that life came from simpler chemical reactions resulting in simple cells) and the same evolutionary principles (heredity, mutation, etc). So being a predator they would always follow the basic predatory instincts, just like us.

Now if one advanced predatory species found another, i don't believe that they would "respect" one another. Subjugation of one of those species would be inevitable. So my point is that they would not sit by "observing" us, at least in the long run. The difference of the level of technology from one of those civilizations and ours would be staggering. There would be no need to observe us for this long.

So if it didn't happen by now, it means there are no aliens visiting our planet. But its a possibility in the future.

This is my opinion. :ph34r:

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Although I consider the possibility of "advanced" lifeforms visiting Earth to study us, I discount its probability. For one thing, it would be arrogant and hubristic to assume that we are the first "new" life observed by this race of aliens, or even the first new intelligent life. Having experienced first contacts before, easily potential catastrophic failures, they would be prepared to carefully observe us without letting us know for extended periods of time. To them, it might not even be certain that they want to interact with us. Maybe they've played that game, and now want to study what happens when an intelligent species lifts itself out of darkest ignorance and into spacefaring glory.

There's also the possibility that we are too insignificant to be noticed on a cosmic scale yet.

It is my belief that life is rather common in the universe, in varying forms. Bacterial or viral analogues to life would be most commonly seeded in the cosmos, with plant and animal analogues rarer but still very common. It is impossible to speculate on the prominence of sentient or technological species (human analogues, if you will) because no one knows the likelihood of sentience arising from a pre-sentient biological matrix. However, I suspect that in the cosmic timescale of our universe many sentients have lived, died, created, and destroyed. It just seems likely to me that most would never become galactic scaled civilizations, or even interstellar civilizations. Self destruction or extinction due to changes in the ecology or biosphere of the planet (disasters of varying sorts) seems more likely than the chance of becoming (nearly) permanently protected from outright extinction by the colonization of different solar systems (if one is even outright destroyed, at least another exists).

That said, a species that could cross the void could undoubtedly observe and study our pitifully primitive society's evolution without us ever being aware. Since there is no way to prove this alien-voyeur theory, it should not be considered fact, it is mere speculation.

Unfortunately, if we are to prove the existence of aliens, we must either discover irrefutable proof of their existence (such as bodies or ruins of spacecraft/colonies) or be introduced to them formally at their behest. First contact isn't really likely to be up to us, at least until we leave this solar system and begin interstellar exploration and colonization of exoplanets. Then we may discover less advanced sentients, but higher sentients would be less likely to be found (either because they weren't there or because they didn't want/need to be found).

That is so true. There might have been civilizations that have become extinct because they probably killed themselves off or because their planet suffered some catastrophe and it was no longer able to sustain them.

I agree with many of the basic points and ideas of your "theory" Druidus. I can see it's very well thought out. :tu:

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Like several people said before, statistically is certain that there is life in the universe besides us.

Not certain, but very likely.

I do believe as well that there is advanced civilizations out there. But i don't believe that they have visited us. Planets like ours (liquid water, little variation in temperature, stable orbit, etc) are the result of n variables that are very rare in the universe, according to astronomers that are trying to find planets similar to ours.

The rarity of such planets does not matter. We have observed one type of life. Ours. This doesn't mean that ecological complexity could develop under different conditions. There could conceivably be living sentients in giant gas planets, who float rather than walk. Or sentients in extreme cold, heat, or pressures. There is nothing intrinsically limiting their evolution, just availability of energy gradients.

Also, our telescopes are not powerful enough to detect all exoplanets, especially small rocky ones, so we can't really quantify the rarity of such worlds.

If by any chance an advanced civilization found this planet and were capable of getting here, they would colonize Earth. And i don't believe either that they did that in the past. If it was in a recent past (a few thousand years), there had to be clues. And there isn't. And no, the pyramids and such are not clues of extraterrestrial life. That level of technology is consistent why the civilizations that existed in those regions of the world.

Why would they colonize Earth? Again, they are not necessarily Earth-adapted. Even if they were, getting here is a problem. And then there's the fact that their morality will have evolved with their technology too. Just because they are powerful doesn't mean they'll abuse that power. Consider slavery in the western world. Early in our development we didn't find this to be inherently immoral, but nowadays we would never enslave another people simply because we had the power to do it and the will to take their resources.

Even if they had the ability to get here, they might have a morality that prevents the usurpation of a planet from its sentient occupants. Might doesn't always make right.

You cannot definitively say that they would colonize Earth. What attracts one species repels another.

Also an advanced life form would be by necessity a predator.

No, it wouldn't, not "by necessity". There's no logical reason to deny the possibility of sentience to herbivores.

The dominant species in an ecosystem is always a predator, and scientists concluded by now that life, here or in another planet, would have followed the same principles of evolution.

They may have followed the same principles but different conditions can cause different results.

As well, what do you mean by dominant? Most prolific? Then it can't be predators, there are less of them than herbivores. Size? Herbivores win. Intelligence? True, omnivores and carnivores tend towards higher intelligence, but this doesn't stop the development of a herbivorous sentience. It merely lowers the likelihood somewhat. Intelligence can still evolve a feedback loop in herbivores through intensely social environments.

The Blue Whale has no natural predators as an adult. Is it dominant? Elephants, as well, have no natural predators, and have uncanny intellectual abilities. Scientists have concluded nothing on this matter, it cannot yet be "concluded".

Not only that, but we were herbivores, mostly. The top animal would have been big cats in our early evolution, not us.

I'm not saying that life would be the same that we see in our planet, by far, but would have had the same beginnings (that life came from simpler chemical reactions resulting in simple cells) and the same evolutionary principles (heredity, mutation, etc).

I agree.

So being a predator they would always follow the basic predatory instincts, just like us.

This doesn't follow.

Now if one advanced predatory species found another, i don't believe that they would "respect" one another.

They would if they had sufficiently developed their morality to the level of including other sentient species in their circle of respect. In the void of space there is no reason for conflict between two such species. It is more rational to co-exist.

Subjugation of one of those species would be inevitable.

Why? Why would an advanced species go through the trouble of enslaving another advanced species? It gives them no benefit. If they need slaves, they should build robots or design biological constructs without sentience. It's easier and depending on the psychology of the species more moral. If they need more space, they could go to any other planet out there, they wouldn't need to take over an inhabited one. I just can't see subjugation being a necessity.

So my point is that they would not sit by "observing" us, at least in the long run.

Unless they aren't as you conceive them.

The difference of the level of technology from one of those civilizations and ours would be staggering. There would be no need to observe us for this long.

Could be staggering is a better way of putting it. And they would observe us rather than destroy/enslave us if they were rational, logical sentients who were interested in the natural evolution of pre-spacefaring civilization. Interaction would ruin the experiment, observation would be the only way.

I agree with many of the basic points and ideas of your "theory" Druidus. I can see it's very well thought out.

Thanks. :)

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Not certain, but very likely.

The rarity of such planets does not matter. We have observed one type of life. Ours. This doesn't mean that ecological complexity could develop under different conditions. There could conceivably be living sentients in giant gas planets, who float rather than walk. Or sentients in extreme cold, heat, or pressures. There is nothing intrinsically limiting their evolution, just availability of energy gradients.

Also, our telescopes are not powerful enough to detect all exoplanets, especially small rocky ones, so we can't really quantify the rarity of such worlds.

Why would they colonize Earth? Again, they are not necessarily Earth-adapted. Even if they were, getting here is a problem. And then there's the fact that their morality will have evolved with their technology too. Just because they are powerful doesn't mean they'll abuse that power. Consider slavery in the western world. Early in our development we didn't find this to be inherently immoral, but nowadays we would never enslave another people simply because we had the power to do it and the will to take their resources.

Even if they had the ability to get here, they might have a morality that prevents the usurpation of a planet from its sentient occupants. Might doesn't always make right.

You cannot definitively say that they would colonize Earth. What attracts one species repels another.

No, it wouldn't, not "by necessity". There's no logical reason to deny the possibility of sentience to herbivores.

They may have followed the same principles but different conditions can cause different results.

As well, what do you mean by dominant? Most prolific? Then it can't be predators, there are less of them than herbivores. Size? Herbivores win. Intelligence? True, omnivores and carnivores tend towards higher intelligence, but this doesn't stop the development of a herbivorous sentience. It merely lowers the likelihood somewhat. Intelligence can still evolve a feedback loop in herbivores through intensely social environments.

The Blue Whale has no natural predators as an adult. Is it dominant? Elephants, as well, have no natural predators, and have uncanny intellectual abilities. Scientists have concluded nothing on this matter, it cannot yet be "concluded".

Not only that, but we were herbivores, mostly. The top animal would have been big cats in our early evolution, not us.

I agree.

This doesn't follow.

They would if they had sufficiently developed their morality to the level of including other sentient species in their circle of respect. In the void of space there is no reason for conflict between two such species. It is more rational to co-exist.

Why? Why would an advanced species go through the trouble of enslaving another advanced species? It gives them no benefit. If they need slaves, they should build robots or design biological constructs without sentience. It's easier and depending on the psychology of the species more moral. If they need more space, they could go to any other planet out there, they wouldn't need to take over an inhabited one. I just can't see subjugation being a necessity.

Unless they aren't as you conceive them.

Could be staggering is a better way of putting it. And they would observe us rather than destroy/enslave us if they were rational, logical sentients who were interested in the natural evolution of pre-spacefaring civilization. Interaction would ruin the experiment, observation would be the only way.

Thanks. :)

Wow Druidus...you really ripped him apart huh?!? lol

I do agree with some of Udjat's ideas...but some do seem to be far fetched...but then again....we havent met our fellow space neighbors so we cant do anything but guess. Right??? ^_^

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