A reason we havent found life...

[MID]

I still think the answer to the question "Where is everybody?" lies in the distance factor. What if the closest advanced life in our galaxy happens to be over on the other side? Let's say they are only 30,000 light years from us (the farthest stars in the milky way are apx. 95,000 LY from us). This means that it takes the light emitted from that particular star 30,000 years to visually reach us. And light is the fastest moving thing there is...apx 300,000 Kilometers per second! The distances are literally mind boggling. I highly suspect that ET is simply too far away from us.

It's funny Lil, I was out doing a little observing the other night, considering the cosmos, and I thought that one of the major problems with this whole discussion about "where are they" and ET life and the idea that they're all over the place on Earth and the government is hiding them from us and all that really is just so illogical if people could just simply understand the scale of the universe.

Somehow, I just don't think astronomers have adequately described it. It's difficult, because what we're talking about is incomprehensible, really. We look at the night skies and we see hundreds of stars, and it all gives the comfy impression that they're all just "out there", seemingly arranged in some sort of symmetry, and they all seem to be spread uniformly across the sky, and a perception that they're all the same distance away is easy to arrive at.

But of course, they're not. They're all so incomprehensibly far away and so randomly spread out across the vastness that they're all essentially alone in the universe.

If we contemplate our planet, which is vast, huge...and in which all of our experience, and awareness had developed upon--everything we've ever known has occurred right here on this 7900 mile in diameter sphere--where to go from the United States to the other side of the planet takes a whole day, by airplane...

... and we reduce that 7900 mile diameter sphere to a small size, 1/32 in., we have to sit around and contemplate that tiny little ball so we understand that this is where all of our human experience has essentially taken place.

Once we grasp that idea, then we see a spec located about an inch away, and that's our Moon. About 30 feet distant, there's a 3 in. diameter ball...that's our Sun, and scattered around that 3 in. ball are 8 smaller balls, none of which you can actually perceive visually, even at this scale, and those 8 balls, ranging from sub millimeter size to about 1/2 in. in diameter, are scattered around in a circle around the three inch ball out to a distance of around 900 feet.

That's our solar system at this scale; an 1800 foot diameter circle, with an invisible scattering of 9 tiny balls circling a 3 inch sphere at the center of it. Vast emptiness on a scale that's incomprehensible even if you're standing there in the center of that 3/8 mile circle, looking around.

It's empty. There's nothing there.

Imagine this is the actual solar system, and you're standing there in the midst of it. You can't see anything really. It would take you 3 minutes to comfortably walk out to where the outer ball is. And beyond that, in all directions, you can't see anything...at all...up down, out...it's empty.

In fact, the closest 3" ball...a star called aCentauriA, is located approximately 1600 MILES away from our little 3" ball.

There's nothing...nothing at all anywhere and in any direction that's closer than 1600 MILES to our tiny 1/32 inch sphere, and it's 3 inch Sun sitting 30 feet away. It takes time to contemplate that and really understand.

If all human experience, your entire life and the lives of every human being that ever lived, occurred on a 1/32 inch ball...the nearest star would be 1600 miles away.

And that simply reduces the scale so we can try and comprehend our solar system, and the incomprehensible distance to our nearest stellar neighbor.

You can further get a grip on this vastness if you consider that it takes aspacecraft three days to travel from the 1/32" spec that represents Earth to that tiny spec an inch away; or contemplate the years it takes the fastest spacecraft to travel to that farthest ball from our 3 inch Sun, some 900 feet away...or, that that same spacecraft would take about 98,000 YEARS to travel to our nearest stellar neighbor...that 3" ball located about 1600 miles away.

And the next closest star to that one 1600 miles away is another 575 miles further distant...

And this galaxy we exist in is composed of hundreds of billions of those 3" balls (of course, some larger, and some smaller), all separated by similarly vast distances, in a spiral that's about 18 MILLION miles in diameter, even with earth being a 1/32" ball....

And THAT---doesn't even describe a sub-microscopic piece of the known universe.

There isn't a habitable world that's any closer than 1600 MILES to us, if we're a 1/32 inch diameter ball.

What are the odds that anyone has ever been here from another world?

[DONTEATUS]

Reminds me of Dr.Segan Mid! Great description. We are out there ! Way out there!

Space afterall is Big! Really Big Mind boggleing Big!"Thanks Douglas Adams for That "

Anywho we are noe at a cross raods of new descoverys that make it know to us that we are really alone in our Hood!

The Good news Is theres Always someone trying to Explore it!

And as far as I can Tell Nothing to Hit If we ever do Figure out How to go Really Fast!

Just How to Get along while the journey is takeing place.

This Will be Man kinds epic Journey to the Stars!

We can Do it!

Edited January 16, 2010 by DONTEATUS

[Lilly]

...What are the odds that anyone has ever been here from another world?

Not very good my friend. And, that was exactly the point I was attempting to make. However, it's certainly not impossible, but until I see definitive evidence I'll opt to stick with the odds.

[MID]

Not very good my friend. And, that was exactly the point I was attempting to make. However, it's certainly not impossible, but until I see definitive evidence I'll opt to stick with the odds.

You made a great point Lil...as usual.

And no...it's certainly not impossible. But, I too think the odds are stacked against it at the moment.

[theSOURCE]

BWAAAHAHAHAHA!!!

You flighty yet supercilious Earthlings! I come from a galaxy tens of billions of lightyears away, yet none of you have guessed my true identity. My mission here has been to observe your weaknesses and nessess and neep...

BWAAHAAAHAAAHUU

YuO Flighty yet superfluous Earth flowers! I come from a galactic hole in space tens of lightyears away and none of you has guessed my name! My mission is to absorb all your weekdays...

BROOMHWAHWAHWAAUMP!!!

yOU all are super fleeting Earth muffins! I went away to come hither on your planet Earthling! My galactic hole is absorbing all your lightyears inside a mission...

Damn this *%(*#&@#ing translator!

Never ming.

[MID]

Reminds me of Dr.Segan Mid! Great description.

Wow,D...

Having something I wrote slightly compared to Dr. Sagan is high praise.

I appreciate it very much...

We are out there ! Way out there!

Yep...Way and the hell out there.

Even farther than that!

[MID]

And as far as I can Tell Nothing to Hit If we ever do Figure out How to go Really Fast!

Not much at all...

Basically, space is mostly nothing. Even the most densely populated star cluster is mostly nothing at all.

[Hugh]

MID, thank you for writing out that whole description to enable us to try and get a handle on the vastness of distances in space... it is mind boggling...

Equally boggling was when I saw the ultra deep field Hubble picture that showed a vast amount of galaxies in a very small section of the sky very far away...

I found the write up here: http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/2004/07/ but I'm sure you've already seen it, if not participated in part of the whole program itself.

I'm fascinated by it because it shows about 10,000 galaxies in the space seen as if looking through an 8 ft long soda straw.

When you realize that there is about 12.7 million times the amount of same space that covers the entire sky, and then multiply that by 10,000 galaxies in each one of those spaces, then multiply that by the number of billions and billions of stars in each galaxy, then realize that's only what we can see, not what actually exists "out further away"... it is truly mind boggling!

There is so much stuff out there, but it is so seemingly far away...

Perhaps the answer of how we will eventually cross those distances quickly will involve the "folding of space", just like how we can fold up a 2d plane to bring a far away point closer quickly, we just do that on a higher dimensional level.

[MID]

MID, thank you for writing out that whole description to enable us to try and get a handle on the vastness of distances in space... it is mind boggling...

You're welcome Hugh...

It's more mind-boggling when you realize that I described a tiny, sub-microscopic equivalent piece of the universe.

It's almost too much to try and describe the vastness any further.

Equally boggling was when I saw the ultra deep field Hubble picture that showed a vast amount of galaxies in a very small section of the sky very far away... I found the write up here: http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/2004/07/ but I'm sure you've already seen it...

Yea...I have.

I'm fascinated by it because it shows about 10,000 galaxies in the space seen as if looking through an 8 ft long soda straw.

Yep, and what I described you couldn't even see in that field of galaxies...and that field of galaxies is but a tiny bit of the universe!

We tend to toss out incredibly huge numbers, which if course is an easy way of describing hugeness.

We say "1 x 10²⁰" as easily as saying "100". We speak casually about "150 million light years", just as casually as talking about "10 miles".

No one seems to comprehend that such a casual use of numbers is akin to comparing an atom with a planet! There's no relation, no comprehension of true scale.

But 10²⁰ is a completely incomprehensible quantity, and even 1 light year is an equally incompreshensible distance...

The fact is, the odds of finding something in that vastness is very, very slim....there's largely nothing there, despite ten billion billion million suns hanging around!

Edited January 17, 2010 by MID

[Hugh]

The fact is, the odds of finding something in that vastness is very, very slim....there's largely nothing there, despite ten billion billion million suns hanging around!

Here's something to think about MID.

You know how we can look at our own body but on a reverse scale as to the one we're describing?

We're made up of billions and billions of tiny little parts, all separated by equally vast distances on their own relative scale right?

From our own perspective, that of a human being, all the tiny parts of us are quickly "accessible" because they are all a part of our own body.

From an atom's perspective in our foot, it is very far away from an atom in our head - a vast distance - yet we are made up of both of them, so our consciousness can easily experience both of them quickly.

Perhaps there is, on a larger scale, a consciousness of sorts, one that looks at the vast distances between the stars we see as we look at the distances between two atoms in our own bodies.

Perhaps there will be a way to link into this consciousness ourselves, so that we may "understand" and "experience" places seemingly very far away from us...

It's all relative right?

[MID]

Here's something to think about MID.

You know how we can look at our own body but on a reverse scale as to the one we're describing?

We're made up of billions and billions of tiny little parts, all separated by equally vast distances on their own relative scale right?

From our own perspective, that of a human being, all the tiny parts of us are quickly "accessible" because they are all a part of our own body.

From an atom's perspective in our foot, it is very far away from an atom in our head - a vast distance - yet we are made up of both of them, so our consciousness can easily experience both of them quickly.

Perhaps there is, on a larger scale, a consciousness of sorts, one that looks at the vast distances between the stars we see as we look at the distances between two atoms in our own bodies.

Perhaps there will be a way to link into this consciousness ourselves, so that we may "understand" and "experience" places seemingly very far away from us...

It's all relative right?

Hugh,

That's a particularly advanced thought.

It rather moves beyond the realm of the physical sciences, of course...at least the mainstream physical sciences.

But I'll tell you, I think you're right.

I think the consciousness to which you speak is most certainly a possibility.

[Nenaptio]

or maybe alies can become invisible, or are invisible in our eyes, or are in another dimension... who knows... they could be what people think are ghosts...

[Lilly]

But I'll tell you, I think you're right.

I think the consciousness to which you speak is most certainly a possibility.

I think Hugh is probably right as well. I can't prove it of course, but I hold it as a viable possibility.

[DONTEATUS]

Close your eyes at nite and transport yourself into any dimension you wish,any place in space you may imagine,This IS our FTL travel.WE all should Do more of this traveling!

Its as many say We are the Universe,The Universe of Possibilities!

[Hugh]

Hugh,

That's a particularly advanced thought.

It rather moves beyond the realm of the physical sciences, of course...at least the mainstream physical sciences.

But I'll tell you, I think you're right.

I think the consciousness to which you speak is most certainly a possibility.

I think Hugh is probably right as well. I can't prove it of course, but I hold it as a viable possibility.

Thank you MID and Lilly.

[MID]

Thank you MID and Lilly.

[Eldorado]

Maybe we have not found "life" elsewhere because we are not as smart as we think. Yet.