Saru Posted May 3, 2004 #1 Share Posted May 3, 2004 This debate will be slightly different to the previous debates we've had. Rather than me picking two people to debate this topic, I will be giving the debaters the oppertunity to volunteer to take part. The topic will be Secrecy VS The people's right to know If you would like to take part in this debate, please post a reply to this thread to register you're interest. Once we have two people, I will toss a coin to see which side of the arguement each of you will be arguing for. Debaters who are already participating in a debate are still welcome to join in this one aswell. A couple of other debates like this will also be set up to give as many debaters the opportunity to participate in a debate as possible. If you'd like to take part but have not registered you're interest in debating on the forum, please head along to the Debater's Thread first. Thanks to Phantom for suggesting this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelfish Posted May 3, 2004 #2 Share Posted May 3, 2004 I'll do this one if you can't find anyone else to. What? don't look at me like that, I can be mature...when I want to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted May 3, 2004 Author #3 Share Posted May 3, 2004 If you'd like to take part but have not registered you're interest in debating on the forum, please head along to the Debater's Thread first. Would you like me to add your name to the forum debaters list ? I'll do this one if you can't find anyone else to. It's more a case of doing it if you want to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelfish Posted May 3, 2004 #4 Share Posted May 3, 2004 (edited) Yes please And I'd like to do this one, I just thought you could use me as sort of a back-up, 'cause there might be people who'd wanna do this more than I do but haven't seen it yet. Edited May 3, 2004 by Angelfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyboy Posted May 3, 2004 #5 Share Posted May 3, 2004 ok im up for this debate secrecy versus the peoples right to know what constitutes the right to know what would the benefits be of knowing is it wise to know are some things best kept secret are we too childish in our natures to handle the fact of the secret is knowledge true power im in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted May 3, 2004 Author #6 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Ok then, we have ourselves two participants for this debate. The results of the coin toss are that Mickyboy will be arguing for the side of Secrecy, and Angelfish will be arguing for the side of the people's right to know. You can each make up to five posts, as well as an optional introductory post and conclusion. If you do not wish to post an introduction, then please post a quick message instead to say that you are ready to begin. All the best, and good luck to both of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyboy Posted May 3, 2004 #7 Share Posted May 3, 2004 THE INTRODUCTION SECRECY There have been certain times in history and even now where it seems that governments, the powers that be, have kept things from the general public, the reasons for this are a need to know basis and basically the public dont need to know everything, just enough to get by. If secrets were revealed on a daily basis there would be widespread confusion about the planet and general hysteria, I am here to argue for Big Brother and even though its not a point of view I hold myself I will argue the case for SECRECY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelfish Posted May 3, 2004 #8 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Introduction: I can see why the government would want to keep certain pieces of information from the public. But if they were to withhold vital information for fear of widespread panic the results could be catastrophic. We are humans too and we deserve to know what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyboy Posted May 3, 2004 #9 Share Posted May 3, 2004 I dont agree Lets say for arguments sake the governments of the world learn the knowledge of something that effects the whole human race, the decide to suppress the information for fear of causing widespread panic and mass hysteria, the secret they possess is that the human race is genetically formed from species from another planet as a testament to their superior gentetic capabaility, this information would rock the human race to the core and must be suppressed, the reason for this is that the human race would have no religious belief system, no faith at all, the creator they have put so much faith in and pray to is none another than a biological entity from another world, this information would have to be suppressed because it would cause chaos and anarchy, religion is not a violent thing in itself, peoples perception of religion is and this is how wars start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelfish Posted May 3, 2004 #10 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Well, yes. But that particular information would kill to birds with one stone, so to speak. It would not only prove the existence of extraterrestrials, but would also answer some of mankind's greatest questions about our origins. Interacting with these beings would be an extraordinary educational experience! Even if it does mean that everything we thought we knew was wrong. We can make new religions, or keep the old ones and just modify them to fit the new information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyboy Posted May 3, 2004 #11 Share Posted May 3, 2004 I know its easy to say we can modify and adapt but your forgetting something, there are a vast majority of people who would not accept, who wouldnt want to adapt, wouldnt want to know the information released and wouldnt even trust it, its like saying "hey forget that belief system, god isnt real whether it be mohammed or jesus or buddha, just jump on board with these insect looking things who really created us"....the secret would have to be maintained and be kept from the general public, its like saying hey crawl when all they want to do is walk, modify and adapt, people wouldnt want to, they would sooner defend their beliefs to the last man than have something pushed upon them by a government, i believe in god and jesus and wouldnt have it at all, I'd defend my belief and it would only deepen my distrust of the government and solidify in my mind that there is some ulterior motive behind it all, the secret must be kept there is no other way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelfish Posted May 4, 2004 #12 Share Posted May 4, 2004 It's not as if the government can force people to change their beliefs. The information would leak out somehow, and the government would inevitably have to confirm or deny it. I think I'd probably be more upset if I found out that they were keeping secrets of phenomenal proportion from us. Yes, the people would be horribly unsettled by it at first, but it'd eventually become simple common knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyboy Posted May 4, 2004 #13 Share Posted May 4, 2004 I dont think a secret of this magnitude would leak out, this is a big issue, one concerning the belief system of a race, I think the government would not only suppress it but you wouldnt even hear it whispered about. When it comes to secrets the powers that be have a tight leash on what gets out and what doesnt, disinformation is a big factor in this, people around the world have their own opinions on whether aliens exist and if we are created by them, but a vast majority just wouldnt accept it, its easy to say people would come to accept it but I think thats an easy answer to give, I dont think they would be given the chance to decide, thats the power of secrecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelfish Posted May 6, 2004 #14 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Then let them not believe, let them not accept. It's a matter of opinion. Like evolution, despite all the evidence there is for it, there are still people who will swear on all that is holy that God created us. If their belief is strong enough, they will simply reject all other possibilities. And for those whose belief isn't that strong, they would be more willing to accept facts such as that if sufficient evidence were provided. We follow what our hearts and minds tell us, not what the government says. That's what makes us human. If our hearts don't know what to believe, then our minds will take over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyboy Posted May 6, 2004 #15 Share Posted May 6, 2004 My point is this.......... It doesn't matter if people believe or not, about evolution, god, satan, faith, little green men. All that matters is the secret and thats my point, we can spend eternity arguing and debating about how people will react and the rights of people but the point is secrets are there for a reason, to be kept secret. Its not a question of the truth will out because if anything the past has shown us that the truth rarely gets out, I think there are secrets that would completely blow your mind, someone once said, I can't remember who but it goes something like this "Oh what a deadly web we weave when we practice to deceive", I think secrets numb the human spirit but if the truth be known we need secrets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelfish Posted May 6, 2004 #16 Share Posted May 6, 2004 You're absolutely right, their are things that we just shouldn't know. But we should be told regardless because it is our right as human beings to possess knowledge that others have. "All men (and women) are created Equal" can't remember who said that, but it was said and it is true. It's a gross violation of human rights for one to keep an immense secret -a secret that could change the world forever- from others because of the fear of the reaction! It is also horribly wrong for someone to have access to such knowledge while others don't because that someone has a better job or social standing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyboy Posted May 6, 2004 #17 Share Posted May 6, 2004 It may be wrong but your overlooking one of the basic facts behind "the secret", we cant know, we cant because we are deemed too insecure as a nation or a people to have the capability to understand the information available, the powers that be deem us as children in their eyes because they think we can't handle the truth, I know I got the "secret" side of this debate and I think i put my case forward with the knowledge that there are secrets and they will never be revealed to us as a people, maybe the future generations will be deemed acceptable for the truth but right now in our chaotic climate i dont think it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyboy Posted May 6, 2004 #18 Share Posted May 6, 2004 THE CONCLUSION I am open minded and I try to gain as much knowledge and experience as I go through life, one thing that worries me is what governments know and what is kept from the general public, we've seen in the past that secrets do come out, whether it be political or something more sinister, secrets do come out, but, I can't help but wonder about the secrets that will never be known, I say that again, that will never be known, we as a people can only speculate on what these secrets are and hope that some of them even though they have been kept from us as a people will one day influence us as a race, I enjoyed taking part in this debate and look forward to sparring with Angelfish a little more, maybe she can have the secret side next time ok!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelfish Posted May 6, 2004 #19 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Who exactly deems us "insecure"? The Government? How can they? They don't have that right, they are us! They aren't any better than the rest of us! It doesn't matter if we understand it or not! I've been told millions of things I don't understand! We deserve to know. It is our right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted May 6, 2004 Author #20 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Angelfish would you like to post a conclusion as well before the debate ends ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyboy Posted May 6, 2004 #21 Share Posted May 6, 2004 (edited) i enjoyed it Edited May 6, 2004 by mickyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelfish Posted May 7, 2004 #22 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Angelfish would you like to post a conclusion as well before the debate ends ? no thanx. I'm all debated out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted May 7, 2004 Author #23 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Ok thanks to both of you for taking part in this debate, i should have the results for you later on today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted May 7, 2004 Author #24 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Right then the results for this debate are in, it looks like Mickyboy managed to win by just a single point, so well done to you. The totals will now be posted up on the debate results thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts